I know it seems odd at first, but I often have the right mana for a T2 Commune, Sylvan, or Wayfinder - or I have the mana for a T3 Mantis Rider...
And it's a much less painful mana base.
Tutor is obviously very powerful, but the inspired trigger on disciple of deceit seems too unreliable. If you could find a way to untap it reliably, you might have a nice trick.
I was playing against a Mardu deck and he thoughtseized me. To my surprise he chose the siege over soul flayer or chromanticores/caryatids in my hand. His reasoning was that as good as Crackling doom was, having to pay 5 for it is too much and makes his deck inefficient. Holy crap, Making it cost 5 just makes it that much harder to cast! I play 3 monastery's, I usually swap one out for SB'ing in but yeah. It just seems that much better now.
This doesn't work because crackling doom doesn't actually target anything. It remains the best card against us.
Another question. I arcbonded against a G/R Gruul deck and they had planeswalkers on board. Does arcbond do damage to each planeswalker or does it only do damage to the player which then I'll have to pick one planeswalker the damage is redirected to?
Another question. I arcbonded against a G/R Gruul deck and they had planeswalkers on board. Does arcbond do damage to each planeswalker or does it only do damage to the player which then I'll have to pick one planeswalker the damage is redirected to?
Arcbond does damage only to the player, and then you can redirect that damage elsewhere if you want. This only works with non-combat damage done to a player - life loss can't be redirected in this manner, and for combat you have to attack the planeswalker specifically.
Those are sweet interactions but as Aved1s said, you need a way to actually tap the Disciple and untap it. There aren't many (if any) decks that you'll be able to actually attack with the 1/3. You could run some spells with convoke like Ephemeral Shields or Springleaf Drum to do that but then I think you'd have to take out essential pieces of the deck. Neat idea though.
Yes. I've been considering changing the 1 Xenagos, god of revels in my deck for a copy of keranos, god of storms. Xenagos' ability is exciting, but feels win-more. Keranos could be a big help in a grindy long game.
But...
I have found that indestructible is the strongest single ability to give Soulflayer in most cases. I definitely want to main deck at least 4 gods because of this. Instead of trying to get fancy with the red ones, 3 Pharikas and 1 Erebos might be the answer here. At least for me, as green and black make up all of the pips in the permanents I play outside of Sidisi and Silumgar. I am able to make Pharika into a creature a decent amount of the time she is out. She and Erebos have decently relevant abilities as well.
Has anyone considered Keranos, God of Storms for his draw ability? It seems like he would do well.
Héctor Cárceles Méndez had Keranos in his list from GP Seville a few weeks back and I've seen a few lists on here with him (zentrani, I think). It's a God with an ability which is always useful, so that's nice.
In my experience, the Gods are all basically the same with only corner cases making some better than others, I pitch them to the GY almost every time. I personally like Pharika, God of Affliction the best as she has multiple functions (holding back ground attackers and wrecking Whip of Erebos decks), plus the cheaper mana cost and the outside chance of actually having enough devotion to make her a creature. After her, I like Xenagos, God of Revels for explosiveness; I could see Keranos, God of Storms being better though since he wins by himself if unchecked.
I have found that indestructible is the strongest single ability to give Soulflayer in most cases. I definitely want to main deck at least 4 gods because of this.
I have found that hexproof is the one I want in most games. Chained to the Rocks, Jeskai Charm, Abzan Charm and Banishing Light all get lots of play at my LGS. Against non-white decks I agree that indestructible is the nuts. And I definitely agree that you want to be able to tailor your deck with 3/4 gods post-sideboard.
Yes. I've been considering changing the 1 Xenagos, god of revels in my deck for a copy of keranos, god of storms. Xenagos' ability is exciting, but feels win-more.
In defense of Xenogod, he is also pretty good in grindy games, he makes all of your creatures haste-y threats and really taxes the opponent to keep up counterspells or instant-speed removal.
I main deck Xenagos, Pharika and Keranos. Depending on the situation, I will pitch which ever seems most suitable to the GY otherwise I'll pick it up with communes. Otherwise, Erebos in Sideboard for those whip decks (and last night, R/W playing Soulfire Grandmaster... I sided out keranos for Erebos and that stopped him dead in his tracks).
Highlight of that game was, him getting out rabblemaster and soulfire and dealing some damage to me before 4th turn, all I had was a sylvan and a wayfinder out with some things in the bin. I eventually get out a monastery seige and pass. I wasn't in a good enough position to play SF knowing chain to the rocks was waiting, so I ended up bestowing my chromanticore onto my wayfinder and swinging for 5 in the air. He eventually chain to the rocks my wayfinder leaving chromanticore out and next turn I dig and finish him off playing erebos and SF. Worked really well.
Beat Esper Control 2-0.
Beat RW aggro 2-0.
Lost to GB Constellation 0-2. Both really close games, but I lost to Villainous Wealth each game. Grindy match. Stain the Mind would've won me the game had I drawn it.
Beat BW Warriors 2-1.
Not sure how I felt about Circle of Flame. Felt mediocre. Think I'll just stick to Arcbound, which is nuts.
Hey guys I believe I lurked through this thread enough.. I just started playing this deck and am really enjoying how great it plays! Takes me back to my craterhoof days.. Anyhow I have tested against a bevy of decks that my friends have (u/b control, u/r control, u/g morph, mono W aggro, mono u devotion) and I have seemingly hit a brick wall.
Either I was very tired at 3am or my friends mono g devotion deck beat me 4 times in a row.. I don't have seemingly any way to disrupt his devotion. He just goes hog wild and I end up milling my banishing lights away. Maybe it was just that I was tired but the deck seemed to really falter in this match-up.. Here was the deck I was using for reference:
PLEASE NOTE: I have made some changes in terms of buying more cards that haven't come yet and switching some numbers of this. I have made scouts into sulti charms, taken the lights to 2 and added an aetherspouts. Also in terms of God's ordered a pharika to put over my athreos. And ordered a second xenagos to put over keranos. Let me know if you guys like what you see or think I don't need the spouts with pharika? Thanks!
Played in a small tourney at my LGS yesterday. It was a win-a-box, plus an additional 2 packs per person for prize support. I played the same list as I posted earlier, except minus 2 Gurmag Swiftwing and 1 Sagu Mauler, plus 2 Shaman of the Great Hunt and 1 Silumgar. Sideboard was minus 1 Valorous Stance, 1 Palace Siege, and 1 Pharika, plus 1 Erase and 2 Mastery of the Unseen.
I went 4-0 in swiss and won the quarterfinals before the top 4 split, so it was a great day. The deck is just so powerful in the late game, but can have the explosive turn 3 Soulflayer games too! I went against Sultai Control, RW Midrange x2, Monogreen Devotion, and Sidisi Whip.
Mastery of the Unseen was great against the Sultai Control deck. It comes in under Disdainful Stroke and Dissolve, and if they use Sultai Charm on it, it taxes their spot removal on threats later. Even if they kill a Manifest, it is fodder for Soulflayer later. Erase was good against the RW Midrange decks. One was very heavy on enchantments, with Chained, Outpost Siege, and multiple Banishing Lights. Against the Sidisi Whip deck, I won game one quickly. Game 2, I sided into a more controlling deck, but that was a mistake. He was able to grind me out with Whip, so I went more all-in on the Soulflayer combo for game three, since he didn't have much to answer hexproof, and I got that game easily. Shaman of the Great Hunt didn't come up much at the tournament, but it was nice one game to help take down an Ashiok. Monogreen Devotion was pretty tough, but in games 2 and 3, I was able to get a Silumgar enchanted with Chromanticore to work through his Monstrous Polukranos and Arbor Colossus. Back-to-back Siege Rhinos helped finish him off.
I was also thinking of side boarding Mastery of the Unseen against control decks. The issue is unlike your list I run about 12 non creature spells (10 if I side in mastery of the unseen). I like your build but I feel that my Monastery Sieges / Dig through times, sultai charms are quite necessary. I don't know how to make it work as effeciently as your build even though I have been giving it a good amount of consideration.
I went 3-2 at FNM, losing to sligh red (he an insane hand game 1, I took game 2 off of a T2 circle of flame and a turn 4 chromanticore with counter support for stokes), and boros burn/agro (again, went to game 3 but I was stuck on 4 lands - swamp, island, mountain, forest and had lots of BB stuff in hand... still lasted a while).
I love my new manabase. It hasn't let me down as long as I've actually drawn lands.
This is my new build that I took to a PPTQ last weekend. I ended up going 4-1-1 with an ID into the top 8. My only loss in the swiss was to mono-red 1 drops. That deck is still giving me the most trouble. I didn't feel like I was in either game against it at all. Main deck searing blood is a killer against zombie tokens and satyr wayfinder. I may have been telegraphing my plays too much because my opponent knew when to play around drown in sorrow the one time I drew it in game 2. The 2 turns after I cleared his board, he went goblin rabblemaster, monastery swiftspear and I was back in a losing race.
I think, at least for my local meta, that my sideboard is getting close to right.
The drowns are usually good against aggro and tokens.
Downfall and stroke can both come in against most abzan builds, big green decks, and anything with Ugin or a lot of walkers.
Negate is good against most blue decks and crackling doom. Stain the Mind and Dead Drop are the most situational cards in the board.
Stain is mainly there for hard Flayer-tron answers like crackling doom, aetherspouts, ugin, the spirit dragon, whelming wave, etc.
Dead drop is there for heroic and the mirror (which I have yet to face).
One strategy that has seemed to work well is to side out Sidisi against black decks if my opponent saw her. She has helped me win many game 1s, but has been considerably worse in game 2 and 3. She is a ripe target for Bile Blight. (As are her tokens). If I can get my opponent to board into more cards that don't kill Soulflayer and Chromanticore, the decks A-plan becomes a little easier to do.
I experimented with Nyx Weaver in the spots of the Soul and Xenagod, and had a bit of success with it. Buying kill spells out of the GY feels really good, but the deck just performs better without it.
Soul of Innistrad has been good. Getting a binned Flayer back into your hand is great and I've found value in grabbing an extra Chromanticore in long games to bestow onto pretty much anything I've got. If I've got all the creatures I need, he's a source of deathtouch for my Flayer. It's better in game 1 when Sidisi is still in there, but good enough without her, so I usually leave him in. Might even go to 2 copies... Probably not.
Oh, and BTW, I lost in the round of 8 to turn 4 rhino, turn 5 rhino in game 1. Then turn 3 rhino, turn 4 rhino, turn 7 Ugin minus 6, turn 8 rhino game 2. Oh well.
So I was wondering if anybody has been keeping up with the spoilers for Dragons of Tarkir? I've been looking at everything revealed so far and have been trying to see if anything would fit into the deck. There is a few interesting cards but so far I don't think anything of note has been revealed that would fit. Thoughts?
IMO none of the new spoilers look appealing for this deck. Maybe Radiant Purge as a sideboard option against Abzan/Jeskai Ascendancy. Honestly probably not even that.
So far I only see the Aven Sunstriker as a maybe include, it has flying and double strike. He is 1WW, but I am splashing white in my brew, so it might work. I am not too excited about the new set yet though.
Yeah, I've been on the lookout as well. Nothing yet. Maybe the GW Elder Dragon since it has flying and lifelink and has relevant abilities if you hardcast it.
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1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Forest
2 Llanowar Wastes
1 Opulent Palace
1 Flooded Strand
4 Mana Confluence
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Frontier Bivouac
3 Siege Rhino
3 Sagu Mauler
3 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Soulflayer
4 Chromanticore
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Commune with the Gods
3 Murderous Cut
I know it seems odd at first, but I often have the right mana for a T2 Commune, Sylvan, or Wayfinder - or I have the mana for a T3 Mantis Rider...
And it's a much less painful mana base.
Tutor is obviously very powerful, but the inspired trigger on disciple of deceit seems too unreliable. If you could find a way to untap it reliably, you might have a nice trick.
This doesn't work because crackling doom doesn't actually target anything. It remains the best card against us.
Another question. I arcbonded against a G/R Gruul deck and they had planeswalkers on board. Does arcbond do damage to each planeswalker or does it only do damage to the player which then I'll have to pick one planeswalker the damage is redirected to?
Arcbond does damage only to the player, and then you can redirect that damage elsewhere if you want. This only works with non-combat damage done to a player - life loss can't be redirected in this manner, and for combat you have to attack the planeswalker specifically.
But...
I have found that indestructible is the strongest single ability to give Soulflayer in most cases. I definitely want to main deck at least 4 gods because of this. Instead of trying to get fancy with the red ones, 3 Pharikas and 1 Erebos might be the answer here. At least for me, as green and black make up all of the pips in the permanents I play outside of Sidisi and Silumgar. I am able to make Pharika into a creature a decent amount of the time she is out. She and Erebos have decently relevant abilities as well.
In my experience, the Gods are all basically the same with only corner cases making some better than others, I pitch them to the GY almost every time. I personally like Pharika, God of Affliction the best as she has multiple functions (holding back ground attackers and wrecking Whip of Erebos decks), plus the cheaper mana cost and the outside chance of actually having enough devotion to make her a creature. After her, I like Xenagos, God of Revels for explosiveness; I could see Keranos, God of Storms being better though since he wins by himself if unchecked.
In defense of Xenogod, he is also pretty good in grindy games, he makes all of your creatures haste-y threats and really taxes the opponent to keep up counterspells or instant-speed removal.
Highlight of that game was, him getting out rabblemaster and soulfire and dealing some damage to me before 4th turn, all I had was a sylvan and a wayfinder out with some things in the bin. I eventually get out a monastery seige and pass. I wasn't in a good enough position to play SF knowing chain to the rocks was waiting, so I ended up bestowing my chromanticore onto my wayfinder and swinging for 5 in the air. He eventually chain to the rocks my wayfinder leaving chromanticore out and next turn I dig and finish him off playing erebos and SF. Worked really well.
Beat Esper Control 2-0.
Beat RW aggro 2-0.
Lost to GB Constellation 0-2. Both really close games, but I lost to Villainous Wealth each game. Grindy match. Stain the Mind would've won me the game had I drawn it.
Beat BW Warriors 2-1.
Not sure how I felt about Circle of Flame. Felt mediocre. Think I'll just stick to Arcbound, which is nuts.
Either I was very tired at 3am or my friends mono g devotion deck beat me 4 times in a row.. I don't have seemingly any way to disrupt his devotion. He just goes hog wild and I end up milling my banishing lights away. Maybe it was just that I was tired but the deck seemed to really falter in this match-up.. Here was the deck I was using for reference:
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
4 Frontier Bivouac
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Nomad Outpost
2 Opulent Palace
1 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Swamp
1 Temple of Malady
Creatures
4 Chromanticore
2 Ghostblade Eidolon
2 Gurmag Swiftwing
1 Athreos, God of passage
1 keranos, God of storms
2 Sagu Mauler
4 Satyr Wayfinder
2 Siege Rhino
4 Soulflayer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
3 Banishing Light
4 Commune with the Gods
3 scout the borders
3 Arcbond
2 Banishing Light
4 Bile Blight
1 Keranos, God of Storms
4 Stubborn Denial
1 Ætherspouts
PLEASE NOTE: I have made some changes in terms of buying more cards that haven't come yet and switching some numbers of this. I have made scouts into sulti charms, taken the lights to 2 and added an aetherspouts. Also in terms of God's ordered a pharika to put over my athreos. And ordered a second xenagos to put over keranos. Let me know if you guys like what you see or think I don't need the spouts with pharika? Thanks!
I went 4-0 in swiss and won the quarterfinals before the top 4 split, so it was a great day. The deck is just so powerful in the late game, but can have the explosive turn 3 Soulflayer games too! I went against Sultai Control, RW Midrange x2, Monogreen Devotion, and Sidisi Whip.
Mastery of the Unseen was great against the Sultai Control deck. It comes in under Disdainful Stroke and Dissolve, and if they use Sultai Charm on it, it taxes their spot removal on threats later. Even if they kill a Manifest, it is fodder for Soulflayer later. Erase was good against the RW Midrange decks. One was very heavy on enchantments, with Chained, Outpost Siege, and multiple Banishing Lights. Against the Sidisi Whip deck, I won game one quickly. Game 2, I sided into a more controlling deck, but that was a mistake. He was able to grind me out with Whip, so I went more all-in on the Soulflayer combo for game three, since he didn't have much to answer hexproof, and I got that game easily. Shaman of the Great Hunt didn't come up much at the tournament, but it was nice one game to help take down an Ashiok. Monogreen Devotion was pretty tough, but in games 2 and 3, I was able to get a Silumgar enchanted with Chromanticore to work through his Monstrous Polukranos and Arbor Colossus. Back-to-back Siege Rhinos helped finish him off.
I love my new manabase. It hasn't let me down as long as I've actually drawn lands.
4x opulent palace
2x temple of malady
1x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3x forest
1x island
2x swamp
3x llanowar wastes
1x mana confluence
1x mountain
1 plains
3 evolving wilds
1 yavimaya coast
Creatures (25)
4x chromanticore
3x sylvan caryatid
1x xenagos, god of revels
1x erebos, god of the dead
2x pharika, god of affliction
4x satyr wayfinder
3x sidisi, brood tyrant
2x silumgar, the drifting death
4x soulflayer
1 soul of innistrad
2x hero's downfall
3x murderous cut
3x sultai charm
4x commune with the gods
3x disdainful stroke
3x drown in sorrow
2x hero's downfall
3x negate
2x stain the mind
2x dead drop
This is my new build that I took to a PPTQ last weekend. I ended up going 4-1-1 with an ID into the top 8. My only loss in the swiss was to mono-red 1 drops. That deck is still giving me the most trouble. I didn't feel like I was in either game against it at all. Main deck searing blood is a killer against zombie tokens and satyr wayfinder. I may have been telegraphing my plays too much because my opponent knew when to play around drown in sorrow the one time I drew it in game 2. The 2 turns after I cleared his board, he went goblin rabblemaster, monastery swiftspear and I was back in a losing race.
I think, at least for my local meta, that my sideboard is getting close to right.
The drowns are usually good against aggro and tokens.
Downfall and stroke can both come in against most abzan builds, big green decks, and anything with Ugin or a lot of walkers.
Negate is good against most blue decks and crackling doom.
Stain the Mind and Dead Drop are the most situational cards in the board.
Stain is mainly there for hard Flayer-tron answers like crackling doom, aetherspouts, ugin, the spirit dragon, whelming wave, etc.
Dead drop is there for heroic and the mirror (which I have yet to face).
One strategy that has seemed to work well is to side out Sidisi against black decks if my opponent saw her. She has helped me win many game 1s, but has been considerably worse in game 2 and 3. She is a ripe target for Bile Blight. (As are her tokens). If I can get my opponent to board into more cards that don't kill Soulflayer and Chromanticore, the decks A-plan becomes a little easier to do.
I experimented with Nyx Weaver in the spots of the Soul and Xenagod, and had a bit of success with it. Buying kill spells out of the GY feels really good, but the deck just performs better without it.
Soul of Innistrad has been good. Getting a binned Flayer back into your hand is great and I've found value in grabbing an extra Chromanticore in long games to bestow onto pretty much anything I've got. If I've got all the creatures I need, he's a source of deathtouch for my Flayer. It's better in game 1 when Sidisi is still in there, but good enough without her, so I usually leave him in. Might even go to 2 copies... Probably not.
Oh, and BTW, I lost in the round of 8 to turn 4 rhino, turn 5 rhino in game 1. Then turn 3 rhino, turn 4 rhino, turn 7 Ugin minus 6, turn 8 rhino game 2. Oh well.
Fingers crossed that we get something sweet!