I played a turbo fog deck last night, and found that the matches take too long to win. Here's and idea i came up with to speed things up. It's just an idea to win in one turn (well..), although it might not be viable:
What happens is you stall with fogs and counterspells until you cast a dictate of karametra. on your turn you use fascination to draw each player 10(?) cards, and then use temporal trespass to take another turn. Then you discard on your endstep and on your next turn you do the same thing, just chaining the temporal trespass and fascination cards. Then you finish by using the mill ability on fascination then pass the turn to your opponent where they will lose from not being able to draw a card.
This is a rough list of the deck. Whelming wave is in here instead of AEtherspouts because it pairs fine with Saty Wayfinder.
Any ideas to make the deck better?
you will probably want some way of returning your greaveyard to your library or you will mill yourself before them a lot of times, especially with you taking extra turns and using satyr. maybe tos sin a 1-of cranial archive to make sure you dont mill yourself. also id drop a dictate or two for kruphix herself. She lets you store up unused mana for that combo turn, she comes alive easily with dictates in and no maximum hand size is nice when drawing a lot.
The thing is, when you combo on your turn, both player will end up milling their libraries, and the next player to draw a card would be your opponent once you pass the turn. I played a few matches with this deck and ended up cutting 2 dig through time for 2 more satyr wayfinder, and 1 dictate of kruphix for another dictate of karametra. The deck was consistent, because it felt like a true fog deck, and this allowed time to find the combo pieces (dictate of karametra, fascination, temporal trespass)
Kruphix god is an idea i haven't considered yet, and she makes sense if you want to save up mana for if you don't have the dictate of karametra yet. However, having a maximum handsize sort of messes up the combo, because not discarding cards at your endstep before taking your next turn from temporal trespass will hurt any future temporal trespasses
they swing with the confidence of 1000 Suns. but wait! they died.
Whatcha think?
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Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
they swing with the confidence of 1000 Suns. but wait! they died.
Whatcha think?
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
they swing with the confidence of 1000 Suns. but wait! they died.
Whatcha think?
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
Tested this out against Boros Burn, Sultai Control (quite similar to the one used in SCG Washington), and a UB Control. There's one big lesson I learned from this: ASHIOK HURTS THIS DECK HUHU
Tested this out against Boros Burn, Sultai Control (quite similar to the one used in SCG Washington), and a UB Control. There's one big lesson I learned from this: ASHIOK HURTS THIS DECK HUHU
I like your new list . I see your not sold on Grindclock I'm still testing . I've testing Void snare and I think it is a good call. It buys us time in the early game, and since it bounces permanents it give us the ability to let things resolve like planeswalkers and bounce them back and counter them. You can bounce things Like Banishing light, if a new threat is more important at the moment. In you list you can bounce Resolute Archangel and Arashin Cleric.
is a single kiora the only wincon? I see that the other thing that "can end the game" is a pearl lake ancient, but with no way to kill off blockers that's a dead card in virtually all matchups. How are you actually killing them?
is a single kiora the only wincon? I see that the other thing that "can end the game" is a pearl lake ancient, but with no way to kill off blockers that's a dead card in virtually all matchups. How are you actually killing them?
With the lack of planeswalkers which I plan to use as finishers, I've been winning with deck outs and the occasional Wealth.
Honestly i think you might want to rethink your wincons. Pearl lake is a truly awful card unless you're running boatloads of removal and sweepers. Even prognostic sphinx will get more done though I'm not sure that's the answer either.
eidolon of rhetoric would be terrible in this deck. Imagine we fog and they cast negate. we just flat lose to our own deck. one of the worst cards we could play.
soulfire is cute but we dont run very many creatures so it would just eat removal all day and we cant waste counters to protect it. we also dont make use of the lifelink for spells. its cute but we are better up with raw draw
Our win con is milling them out via all of the draw. We replace cards in our library with bow of nylea or cranial archive and just fog every lethal attack. Dictate of kruphix is the win con. you may be able to win with a kiora ultimate, but a lot of the time she is just an explore every other turn, or draws out a burn spell
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Quote from DEADMANSEVEN »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it put an evasive creature in its deck over a narrow hate card.
Quote from DARCYKUN »
If a card isn't worth your opponent removing, it's not worth putting in your deck.
Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
Briber's purse would be an ok card against tron type decks where they have one big dude they swing with. It doesnt take a lot of investment to blank a dude for several turns. However, a lot of decks in the meta can go wide. they have multiple creatures swinging in each turn. The purse can only hit one creature per turn and its limited in the number of counters on it when you cast it. If your meta is full of decks that like to overload one creature, then it seems like a decent sideboard tech. (i know that my other standard deck built around strength from the fallen would have trouble with the purse unless i overextend)
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Quote from DEADMANSEVEN »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it put an evasive creature in its deck over a narrow hate card.
Quote from DARCYKUN »
If a card isn't worth your opponent removing, it's not worth putting in your deck.
is a single kiora the only wincon? I see that the other thing that "can end the game" is a pearl lake ancient, but with no way to kill off blockers that's a dead card in virtually all matchups. How are you actually killing them?
Honestly i think you might want to rethink your wincons. Pearl lake is a truly awful card unless you're running boatloads of removal and sweepers. Even prognostic sphinx will get more done though I'm not sure that's the answer either.
Sagu Mauler might be worth looking at.
I think you're right. I almost never side-in Pearl Lake. And Sagu Mauler also seems very plausible as a 2-of or 3-of in the SB. Trying to think of other finishers damage-wise.
Seems good for like Dictate of Kruphix 8 copies in a deck seems good.
or a counter Ugin for 4 mana.
Another Citadel Seige.
Another Garruk, Apex Predator +1 kill them.
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Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
Seems good for like Dictate of Kruphix 8 copies in a deck seems good.
or a counter Ugin for 4 mana.
Another Citadel Seige.
Another Garruk, Apex Predator +1 kill them.
When I faced a Sultai Control deck, he had an Ashiok, an Ugin, and a Garruk out. This made me want to put 1 or 2 Fated Retribution main board. But I was looking around at other cards in my colors and I saw this. I checked the price that people are selling it for in an FB Group and it is now ¼ the price it was when it was released. I really want to try copying a Garruk to pop theirs hahaha
I'm curious. How has everyone's testing been going? I'll be honest, mine has been going rather poorly. I love the deck, and I want it to do well, but I'm just not winning enough games. I was really hoping to take it to Regionals, too. Anyone out there with good news?
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The...
...Larch.
I used to be tessie on here. Not that I was prolific enough to warrant remembrance, but merely for reference, and maybe posterity.
I haven't tested a lot but in the testing I've done the deck can win a lot of games. With that said, you have to play really smart and sometimes you just hit dead draws for 5 or 6 turns and get caught without a fog card or a Sweeper. I think the deck needs another cheap fog card, but it's playable.
This is a deck that you sneak in a catch people of guard with it.
I'm curious. How has everyone's testing been going? I'll be honest, mine has been going rather poorly. I love the deck, and I want it to do well, but I'm just not winning enough games. I was really hoping to take it to Regionals, too. Anyone out there with good news?
Decent? I have been playing on the MTGO Beta. I played a 2/3 game with Mono Black. he took it in the end. Palace Seige is just to good on the return a creature every upkeep plan with brain maggots.
then played a Mono Red deck.
Game 1 Land scwered. Meh..
Game 2. He got land screwed.
Game 3. nothing to do earler then turn 3. (dissolved a Trumpet blast) then he swung and double magma jet me. and took it. Next turn was a wraith.
I want to put it in paper and play it tomrrow at a small trouny. if I it doesn't do well. I will end up going back to soul Flayer.
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Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
Now, I have only done limited testing. I played against 1 constellation deck, and one sidisi whip deck. Both matches I went 2-1. Here are my impressions:
Reality Shift - On paper, it seems like it works well, but it just ended up dead in my hand a lot. I found myself not ever wanting or needing it. "milling" one card seemed helpful while killing a creature, but the fact is, your not removing a creature, your only making a threat smaller, since every attacker is a threat. Countermand - Ended up being too expensive. The deck always seems to be very mana intensive between playing Dictate of Kruphix and Bow of Nylea and saving mana for countering spells, and fogging or board wipes. I want to keep running two, because even getting one off is one less turn on the clock. Aetherspouts - A seemingly good board wipe, until your opponent gets smart. Once the opponent learns you play this card, they tend to only attack with a couple creatures at a time, forcing to waste an Aetherspouts without actually wiping the board. At 5 mana it is expensive as well. Still hard to not justify running them, as there isn't much else that is better. Whelming Wave - expensive and at sorcery speed it seems not so great, but it was probably the card I hoped to top deck the most in each game. It really slows the opponent down.
Each game I played was super sketchy. I was always looking to the top deck for an answer, I never seemed to have enough answers to multiple creatures. I found myself casting Fascination to draw into my fogs or wipes, instead of using it for milling. The deck really needs a 3rd set of fogs, but we just don't have it in standard. The deck also seems to do poorly against other decks running counterspells, as there is usually not enough mana on tap to back up a board wipe with a counterspell, or enough cards to back up a fog with another fog etc.
the third fog could be hold at bay but im realllllly iffy on using it. It does prevent burn damage, but it only fogs for 7. also why is no one playing swan song????? that card was made for this deck. we win counter wars and that bird token is irrelevant. it gets shot by bow, or killed by any board wipe.
I agree with most of your evaluations. Aetherspouts is pretty easy to play around, so i dont play any. I might get 1-2 to test with.
Countermand is just way too expensive. we dont need the extra mill cause once we have the board locked down, we can just wait an extra turn or two.
Reality shift is a card that i think could be sided in to deal with creatures that we need to hit that our other things just dont. something like sarkhan, dash dudes maybe.
whelming wave however i dont understand. Its our cheapest wrath, not the most expensive. Most wraths are sorcery so thats not really a big negative. Also a lot of decks are playing tokens so it can be a true wrath. sucks when you bounce siege rhino's back but they arent actualy as backbreaking against us as they can be to other decks.
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Quote from DEADMANSEVEN »
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it put an evasive creature in its deck over a narrow hate card.
Quote from DARCYKUN »
If a card isn't worth your opponent removing, it's not worth putting in your deck.
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The thing is, when you combo on your turn, both player will end up milling their libraries, and the next player to draw a card would be your opponent once you pass the turn. I played a few matches with this deck and ended up cutting 2 dig through time for 2 more satyr wayfinder, and 1 dictate of kruphix for another dictate of karametra. The deck was consistent, because it felt like a true fog deck, and this allowed time to find the combo pieces (dictate of karametra, fascination, temporal trespass)
Kruphix god is an idea i haven't considered yet, and she makes sense if you want to save up mana for if you don't have the dictate of karametra yet. However, having a maximum handsize sort of messes up the combo, because not discarding cards at your endstep before taking your next turn from temporal trespass will hurt any future temporal trespasses
but what about Citadel Siege?
the 2nd option on a empty board is fine. Next turn Tap it down. they have to 2 play a second creature to be able to swing for something.
And what about Devouring Light?
they swing with the confidence of 1000 Suns. but wait! they died.
Whatcha think?
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
So yes, Devouring Light is a pretty good choice.
Love your reply! lol.
EDIT: New Sig.
3 Island
3 Forest
4 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Blossoming Sands
2 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Radiant Fountain
1 Opulent Palace
1 Sandsteppe Citadel
1 Resolute Archangel
4 Dissolve
1 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Dig Through Time
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Winds of Qal Sisma
3 Whelming Wave
4 End Hostilities
1 Villainous Wealth
4 Dictate of Kruphix
1 Banishing Light
2 Bow of Nylea
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Banishing Light
2 Fated Retribution
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Fascination
3 Nullify
4 Negate
Tested this out against Boros Burn, Sultai Control (quite similar to the one used in SCG Washington), and a UB Control. There's one big lesson I learned from this: ASHIOK HURTS THIS DECK HUHU
EDH DECKS
[to be updated
OTHER DECKS
With the lack of planeswalkers which I plan to use as finishers, I've been winning with deck outs and the occasional Wealth.
EDH DECKS
[to be updated
OTHER DECKS
Honestly i think you might want to rethink your wincons. Pearl lake is a truly awful card unless you're running boatloads of removal and sweepers. Even prognostic sphinx will get more done though I'm not sure that's the answer either.
Sagu Mauler might be worth looking at.
Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
RIP Jimmy foREVer
soulfire is cute but we dont run very many creatures so it would just eat removal all day and we cant waste counters to protect it. we also dont make use of the lifelink for spells. its cute but we are better up with raw draw
Our win con is milling them out via all of the draw. We replace cards in our library with bow of nylea or cranial archive and just fog every lethal attack. Dictate of kruphix is the win con. you may be able to win with a kiora ultimate, but a lot of the time she is just an explore every other turn, or draws out a burn spell
Briber's purse
I think you're right. I almost never side-in Pearl Lake. And Sagu Mauler also seems very plausible as a 2-of or 3-of in the SB. Trying to think of other finishers damage-wise.
EDH DECKS
[to be updated
OTHER DECKS
Seems good for like Dictate of Kruphix 8 copies in a deck seems good.
or a counter Ugin for 4 mana.
Another Citadel Seige.
Another Garruk, Apex Predator +1 kill them.
Was totally thinking of Clever Impersonator too hahaha
When I faced a Sultai Control deck, he had an Ashiok, an Ugin, and a Garruk out. This made me want to put 1 or 2 Fated Retribution main board. But I was looking around at other cards in my colors and I saw this. I checked the price that people are selling it for in an FB Group and it is now ¼ the price it was when it was released. I really want to try copying a Garruk to pop theirs hahaha
EDH DECKS
[to be updated
OTHER DECKS
I'm curious. How has everyone's testing been going? I'll be honest, mine has been going rather poorly. I love the deck, and I want it to do well, but I'm just not winning enough games. I was really hoping to take it to Regionals, too. Anyone out there with good news?
I used to be tessie on here. Not that I was prolific enough to warrant remembrance, but merely for reference, and maybe posterity.
This is a deck that you sneak in a catch people of guard with it.
Decent? I have been playing on the MTGO Beta. I played a 2/3 game with Mono Black. he took it in the end. Palace Seige is just to good on the return a creature every upkeep plan with brain maggots.
then played a Mono Red deck.
Game 1 Land scwered. Meh..
Game 2. He got land screwed.
Game 3. nothing to do earler then turn 3. (dissolved a Trumpet blast) then he swung and double magma jet me. and took it. Next turn was a wraith.
I want to put it in paper and play it tomrrow at a small trouny. if I it doesn't do well. I will end up going back to soul Flayer.
We want a Threat that can't be removed very easily...
I think to my self.
"Gods"
What god can put pressure with out having to be a be problem on mana and can do it effectively.
Heliod, God of the Sun
4Mana: 2/1 Vigilant duder. "OH WAIT DO I NEED TO TAP HELIOD?" "NOOO??" "K ANOTHER DUDE" got 4 more mana? "COOL ANOTHER DUDE"
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Whelming Wave
4 Aetherspouts
4 Reality Shift
4 Dictate of Kruphix
4 Fascination
4 Countermand
4 Dissolve
2 Bow of Nylea
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Thornwood Falls
4 Forest
6 Island
Now, I have only done limited testing. I played against 1 constellation deck, and one sidisi whip deck. Both matches I went 2-1. Here are my impressions:
Reality Shift - On paper, it seems like it works well, but it just ended up dead in my hand a lot. I found myself not ever wanting or needing it. "milling" one card seemed helpful while killing a creature, but the fact is, your not removing a creature, your only making a threat smaller, since every attacker is a threat.
Countermand - Ended up being too expensive. The deck always seems to be very mana intensive between playing Dictate of Kruphix and Bow of Nylea and saving mana for countering spells, and fogging or board wipes. I want to keep running two, because even getting one off is one less turn on the clock.
Aetherspouts - A seemingly good board wipe, until your opponent gets smart. Once the opponent learns you play this card, they tend to only attack with a couple creatures at a time, forcing to waste an Aetherspouts without actually wiping the board. At 5 mana it is expensive as well. Still hard to not justify running them, as there isn't much else that is better.
Whelming Wave - expensive and at sorcery speed it seems not so great, but it was probably the card I hoped to top deck the most in each game. It really slows the opponent down.
Each game I played was super sketchy. I was always looking to the top deck for an answer, I never seemed to have enough answers to multiple creatures. I found myself casting Fascination to draw into my fogs or wipes, instead of using it for milling. The deck really needs a 3rd set of fogs, but we just don't have it in standard. The deck also seems to do poorly against other decks running counterspells, as there is usually not enough mana on tap to back up a board wipe with a counterspell, or enough cards to back up a fog with another fog etc.
I agree with most of your evaluations. Aetherspouts is pretty easy to play around, so i dont play any. I might get 1-2 to test with.
Countermand is just way too expensive. we dont need the extra mill cause once we have the board locked down, we can just wait an extra turn or two.
Reality shift is a card that i think could be sided in to deal with creatures that we need to hit that our other things just dont. something like sarkhan, dash dudes maybe.
whelming wave however i dont understand. Its our cheapest wrath, not the most expensive. Most wraths are sorcery so thats not really a big negative. Also a lot of decks are playing tokens so it can be a true wrath. sucks when you bounce siege rhino's back but they arent actualy as backbreaking against us as they can be to other decks.