Now that FRF is up on Gatherer, I realized that we could use a semi primer. I've been testing this deck, but obviously we won't know more until we're able to start playing it consistently after the release.
Orzhov Warriors is a fast aggro deck that relies on the warrior synergy from KTK and FRF to put out several powerful, efficient creatures in a short period of time. The use of lords and the new Dash mechanic means that we'll have several dangerous threats out at one time that, unlike most tribal decks, are powerful and efficient on their own.
So this is my list that I've started testing with.
Note that if you don't see a card in the following list, it's because I don't feel that it's worth mentioning.
Card Choices 1 Drops:
Mardu Woe-Reaper: This guy goes without saying. He's a 2/1 for 1 with an upside that hates on graveyard strategies. With how many creatures we should be dropping, there's the potential to blow out a Whip deck, which are our deck's greatest foe.
Bloodsoaked Champion: Another 2/1 for 1 with the downside of being unable to block (which is a downside this deck could care less about). His raid ability makes him very difficult to deal with for some decks, especially control decks that are removal heavy. An overall powerhouse.
Tormented Hero: Another 2/1 for 1 with the downside of entering tapped. This shouldn't matter on the first couple turns, but late game there could be some problems. His heroic plays nicely with Gods Willing, Valorous Stance and Boon of Erebos, but otherwise usually has no relevance (and you're likely to use those cards to save something else instead).
Mardu Shadowspear: A pseudo 2/1 for 1. His ability is nice for bouncing off of Sylvan Caryatid and the dash makes him have pseudo-immunity from removal, at the downside of spending 2 each time you want to attack with him. Only run this guy if you aren't playing Tormented Hero and vice versa.
Dragon Hunter: A 2/1 for 1. His ability is unlikely to have a lot of upside unless a bunch of dragons significantly warp the metagame (which is unlikely). I'd recommend Shadowspear or Bloodsoaked Champion over this.
2 Drops
Chief of the Edge: One of our two lords. The +1 damage is essential in racing situations, as is being a 2/2 for two. Unfortunately, it stretches the mana a bit, meaning you're likely to take more pain or be short a color.
Chief of the Scale: The other of our two lords. The +1 toughness usually isn't as relevant as the +1 power, as things which kill our creatures will still kill them anyways (barring Drown in Sorrow). Can still turn trades into a profitable block, however.
Battle Brawler: A powerful enabler. A 3/2 First Strike for 2 is nothing to sneeze at, especially after being played on curve with Mardu Woe-Reaper.
Blood-Chin Rager: This guy is pretty crazy. A 2/2 for 2, he's easy on the mana and helps to solve one this deck's oldest problems: what happens when your opponent plops a Siege Rhino down. I'd definitely run some number of him in the main (probably 2, potentially 3).
Herald of Dromoka: A 2/2 for 2 with a relevant upside. Granting your warriors isn't as significant as making them harder to block, so I'd rather grant some of the limited 2drop spots to Blood-Chin Rager. Could potentially serve as sideboard material against aggressive decks like RDW, as it lets you sneak in damage while leaving up blockers.
Hidden Dragonslayer: Sideboard material. A 2/1 lifelinker for 2 isn't stellar, and its ability isn't always relevant. However, when the ability IS relevant, it's pretty powerful. I'd bring it in against any sort of devotion strategy.
3 Drops
Mardu Strike Leader: I like this guy. He feels like a Black Goblin Rabblemaster. While he isn't boosted and the tokens don't have haste, the tokens do have 1 more point of power and he himself can get haste, if you're willing to pay the dash cost (which also saves him from a lot of removal).
Blood-Chin Fanatic: This guy's pretty crazy. It's another way to sneak in damage in a stalled board and can keep you alive against aggressive strategies like RDW. It's a powerful finisher as well, as he doesn't need haste to activate.
Athreos, God of Passage: Alright if you're in a meta with a lot of removal. He gets value from cards that would otherwise only eat an Ultimate Price and synergizes with Blood-Chin Fanatic.
Mogis's Marauder: 2/2 haster for 3 that helps your guys get around a stalled board state. The problem is that the board state will likely be stalled against Abzan, making him a bit less powerful. I don't think the deck has anywhere to put him, but it could be a meta choice if there's a lot of non-black midrange running around.
Merciless Executioner: Could be cute with something like Bloodsoaked Champion, but he's not particularly efficient for his cost and dies to a stiff breeze. I would recommend passing him by.
Herald of Torment: Efficiently costed flyer with a small drawback. Bestow can be relevant (pull your Mardu Strike Leader into the air to dodge blockers while still generating tokens, provides a small buffer against removal/sweepers, etc). Could be worth testing, though I'm a bit iffy on cramming the 3 drop slots too much.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos: Lotta value on this guy. While he might not be a warrior, he is a 3/4 for 3 that spawns tokens. The only problem is consistently hitting double white, as the deck runs far more black sources. Could see play as a 1-2 of.
Arashin Foremost: Reminds me of Silverblade Paladin, though slightly more restrictive. Even so, it's definitely playable. While it can't boost itself, it can get in some serious damage with a full board. I'd personally run 3-4.
4 Drops
Brutal Hordechief: This guy is nuts. A Black Hellrider that swaps haste for drain and another ability. While I doubt his 5 mana ability will ever get used, it's possible to steal some games with it by completely wrecking your opponent's board or bypass it completely (have everything block a Bloodsoaked Champion and swing in with everyone else). While his ability isn't an ETB, it does effect the board as soon as you move to combat. A 3-4 drain just from attacking is fantastic, and a 5-6 could be devastating. However, he is the curve topper, so I'd recommend running 2.
5 drops(!)
Wingmate Roc: I suppose if you want to play Orzhov Midrange, you could try it. Could possibly see play as a 1 of or sideboard. I personally find it far too slow.
Artifacts
Obelisk of Urd: Buffs everything in the deck, pushing even your one drops out of Drown range and has Strike Leader make a 4/3 token per attack. At 6 mana, it's rather expensive, but could be played when there's not a profitable attack or when you have some excess mana. Holding back a couple 1 drops to give everything else +2/+2 isn't a bad idea.
Spear of Heliod: +1/+1 for 3 and an activated upside is nice. Downsides are that it dies to Erase (which is unfortunately rampant) and won't push your 1-drops out of Drown in Sorrow range.
Sorceries
Read the Bones: I don't like this card too much. 3 mana in a control deck like Sultai or UB is fine, but our deck, while not being balls to the wall aggro, is still looking to have a low curve.
Sign in Blood: More mana intensive than RtB and lacking Scry, but is a lower mana cost and can be used to burn your opponent. We lack a source of card draw (though we do have sources of card advantage in Strike Leader and the Dash mechanic in general).
Thoughtseize: Thoughtseize is Thoughtseize. We're playing Black, therefore we should side Thoughtseize. In all seriousness, it's a powerful card that can remove potential problems before they hit the table (such as Rhino, Courser, Giant, etc).
Glare of Heresy: One of white's premier removal cards. Gets rid of Rhinos, Elspeths, Chained to the Rocks, etc. Sorcery speed hurts its playability a bit, but it's a powerful card that shouldn't be discounted. Definitely sideboard material.
Return to the Ranks: Spicy tech no steal pls. No seriously, I can see this card being sideboarded. It's a cute way to get around End Hostilites/Drown in Sorrow, though unfortunately it does nothing against Anger. If it was instant, I would say that it would definitely see play. However, you do get value when using it to return Battle Brawlers or Chiefs. Returning 3 2 drop creatures gets more value than casting them, as it's less mana and you're spending one card to get multiple.
Instants
Gods Willing: One of the major perks of playing White is getting its protection effects. Gods Willing is a powerful trump card against targeted removal and allows your guys to sneak in extra damage. The scry is just icing on the cake.
Valorous Stance: While 2 mana is a bit much for indestructibility (compare with Ajani's Presence), the option to kill a Siege Rhino or Doomwake Giant (especially the Giant) is something that I don't want to pass up. Choices are cool, guys.
Boon of Erebos: Another "protection" effect. The life loss can be a bit iffy, but the ability to bluff a 1 drop into killing a Courser/Caryatid and living isn't something to pass up. I would mainboard at least 3.
Bile Blight: One of our deck's (and any aggro deck's) major problems is Tokens. They have too many ways to trick into bad attacks or to trade badly for us. This card takes care of a lot of that and can help keep Jeskai Ascendancy.
Utter End: The ultimate problem solver. Gets rid of Sarkhan/Sorin, Whips, Giants, you name it. 4 mana is a bit much, but games against Whip tend to go longer, which should give you enough breathing room to use it to get rid of stuff.
Ultimate Price: Welcome back, friend. This card is pretty damn good against most of the field, especially aggressive Red or Boros strategies. I'm not positive if it's mainboard material yet (we'll have to see how the meta ends up), as Hero's Downfall just answers so much more.
Planeswalkers Sorin, Solemn Visitor: He's a powerful walker and slots fairly nicely. However, he messes with the curve a bit and tends to die when he comes down. I'd play no more than 2. Elspeth, Sun's Champion: IMO, her mana cost is too high. She's usually a game-ender when she comes down, but this deck doesn't necessarily want to tap out to play her, and she wrecks the curve.
Lands
We want to avoid too many ETB tapped lands, so Scoured Barrens is out. Temple of Silence: Mana fixing and draw fixing. Should be your only ETB tapped land. I'd run 4. Caves of Koilos: Untapped fixing. Can be painful, but likely only during the first few turns. Run 4. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth: Black fixing is an absolute necessity. Legendary, so run no more than 2. Mana Confluence: Untapped fixing that's always painful. I'm not too sold on the card in this deck, yet. Run no more than 2.
Splashing! Note that splashing will make your manabase inherently less stable, slower and/or more painful. Thus I won't be listing that in the cons section, as it's implied. Blue: pls no Red: Going full Mardu gives you some options.
Pros: Alesha, Who Smiles at Death is a pretty cool card. It has to live for a turn, but can begin providing some value pretty early. Unfortunately, does not combo with Merciless Executioner or with Mardu Strike Leader. You can also get Mardu Ascendancy to keep your board alive through Drown in Sorrow AND Anger of the Gods (which is pretty cool) and Crackling Doom to completely blank Sorin and hit Heroic pretty hard. Flamerush Rider seems a bit too cute to see play imo, especially as 5 drop 3/3 (or repeated 4 mana investments to Dash it). Rabble Master could also see play alongside Strike Leader (or replacing, perhaps).
Cons: Diluting your game plan a bit too much. A lot of the Mardu cards require heavy mana investment that you might not have, and some of them don't play nicely with the rest of the deck.
Green: If you're going to go Abzan, I would recommend going straight Abzan Aggro instead of some strange warrior hybrid. If you must, however:
Pros: Siege Rhino. Warden of the First Tree is pretty cool, though you'll likely never activate its middle ability much, or its last one at all. He could serve as removal bait/mana sink, however. Sunblade Elf could see play if you want to try a more aggro approach, as could Rakshasa Deathdealer (and they said I was stupid when I said he would see standard play).
Cons: Almost no tribal element left, and your game plan is very diluted. Why don't you just go play Abzan aggro/midrange instead? It'd be better in almost every case.
Edit1: Added splashes and more card choices.
Edit2 (3/30/2015): Updated with DTK cards.
One thing I don't understand. What will you do when: T2 Caryatid, T3 Rhino, seems like gg with your list. Don't get me wrong, but you really do need removal in maindeck. Check this out: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-01-15-orzhov-weenies/ . This is first version of mine. I'll give a chance to warriors, but Anger and Drown still seems bad against us.
Wondered when/if someone would do one of these. Have been tempted myself being an avid fan of the warrior tribal, trying as I have to make it work at local FNM's. Hopefully this latest iteration of cards will give us the tools to be successful.
Further I really like your primer. Your opinions on many of the cards seem to match my own in terms of the experiences I have had with them. Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw.
I have been doing some playtesting of my own with the Orzhov version of Warriors (other version is Mardu - not sure about Abzan tbh) and have tried to go the more full-on aggro route (using 16 one drops + playset of Brutal Hordechief et al) but found it lacking, so I think the direction you are positing is probably more the way to go.
From my experience I think what these kind of aggro-like decks need to do to be competitive is to compliment early damage with unavoidable midgame/late damage. I currently do this in Mardu colours using Herald of Torment and Butcher of the Horde. Brutal Hordechief is now another option.
I would, however suggest playing a playset of Boon of Erebos in the main. The card for me just provides far too much utility in almost all matchups to be left to the sideboard. Given the cards you've posted, it will either:
1) Save an important creature from death (the primary function of Gods Willing).
2) Act as removal for problem creatures like Siege Rhino and Courser of Kruphix.
It also acts as an excellent way to place seeds of doubt in your opponent when you attack. It can also push through the last bit of damage, a la Sign in Blood, and its lifeloss can be slightly offset by Tormented Hero. Although I run Seeker of the Way, which has excellent synergy with the card.
Speaking of Seeker of the Way, where is he in your list? Surely he deserves at least a mention! Saying that he obviously performs better in decks with more noncreature spells. Personally I'd run him if my warrior deck runs at least 12 noncreature spells, and especially if I'm running Herald of Torment on top.
Another card to consider for the sideboard is Merciless Executioner. He's not card advantage but I feel like I wouldn't care if the effective trade was my one drop versus their Siege Rhino. He feels like a pretty good card to use on the draw against Abzan aggro and other such decks.
I feel like Mardu Strike Leader is a sideboard card. As I mentioned before I run Mardu Warrior tribal and, often, I don't like Goblin Rabblemaster. My deck is not controlly enough to enable a situation where he excels, and so often he just dies and does nothing. However I still feel that Goblin Rabblemaster is better than Mardu Strike Leader, but that Mardu Strike Leader would be fantastic against control. Thus, I'd sideboard him for the control matchups.
Last point (honestly): No Spear of Heliod? Feel like it would be better than Obelisk of Urd. Maybe run both if you're feeling greedy.
Seems like a fun deck, but I would definitely change a few things:
1. I would definitely cut all 4 God's Willing. This is an aggro deck, not a Heroic deck. Nobody cares if they get to kill one of your pseudo-lords, you just play another one. Playing God's Willing can lead to awkward situations where that card is rotting in your hand because you have no creatures on the board, while playing more creatures instead will never lead to those moments.
2. I would also definitely cut at least 1 Obelisk of Urd - the card is great and all, but you will almost never want to draw multiples of it or top deck into it, so 2 should be plenty (maybe too many for a "true" Aggro version, but more on that later).
3. I would definitely cut 1 land unless you want to add more 4+ CMC spells (which you shouldn't). 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth should probably be enough, so that would be my cut (changing the number of Swamps/Plains accordingly, based on the final deck list).
With these 6 cuts, let's see what we can put in the deck instead:
1. I would definitely add 2 more Mardu Strike Leader, because this guy is insane in a Warrior deck (and only in that deck).
2. I also think that 2 more Chief of the Scale are a good idea, simply because every point of toughness can count against other aggressive decks or burn spells. The ability to potentially even reach 4 toughness on some of your guys is nothing to scoff at and quite easily done if you get an Obelisk of Urd online.
3. Valorous Stance also seems like the perfect non-creature card in the deck because it can get rid of annoying blockers or save your guys and one of those situations will come up in most games - which is why I would add 2 more copies. This gives you (part of) the God's Willing effect without playing a sub-par card (for the tribal deck purpose).
Now, these are the "obvious" changes I would make to the main deck, but there are a couple of other options besides those:
You could also go more "midrange-y" with Sorin, Solemn Visitor and maybe a 1-of Athreos, God of Passage, but that seems questionable because Orzhov Warriors just doesn't seem like the best Midrange strategy, compared to the other options currently in Standard.
I agree with a fair number of these. I've always liked Boon of Erebos a bit more, but people were swearing up and down that Gods Willing was better. I can see both sides, but having played mono black aggro for awhile, I really like Boon.
Sign in Blood can definitely go out. It's my preference to play at least one copy main just in case you're running low on resources (which can happen in a deck like this), but a 0 list could work.
I'm not sure if I like the full aggro version with Shadowspear, however. The downfall of mono black was that it didn't have any way to force through damage in the later turns, and its things died way too easily. Hordechief allows you to set up blocks that you like and sets up some lategame power with his attack ability.
I don't really like Sorin in the deck either. I know some people were trying it, but he often just died the turn after you played him. There's lots of other things I could be doing for 4 mana.
And note that this primer is a rough one. I was typing it up between classes, so some cards aren't on there that I wanted to be. I'm going to be updating the rest of it tonight.
One thing I don't understand. What will you do when: T2 Caryatid, T3 Rhino, seems like gg with your list. Don't get me wrong, but you really do need removal in maindeck. Check this out: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/11-01-15-orzhov-weenies/ . This is first version of mine. I'll give a chance to warriors, but Anger and Drown still seems bad against us.
Sure. I'm tempted to run Hero's Downfall in the main, just because it deals with so much.
I would, however suggest playing a playset of Boon of Erebos in the main. The card for me just provides far too much utility in almost all matchups to be left to the sideboard. Given the cards you've posted, it will either:
I agree, and I think that I'll be moving them to the main.
Speaking of Seeker of the Way, where is he in your list? Surely he deserves at least a mention! Saying that he obviously performs better in decks with more noncreature spells. Personally I'd run him if my warrior deck runs at least 12 noncreature spells, and especially if I'm running Herald of Torment on top.
I actually don't like seeker in this deck very much. I could be wrong and he's great, but I never really saw much value out of him.
As for Strike Leader, the fact that he has Dash makes him playable in my book. It gives your opponent much less time to kill him.
As for spear, it's possible. The ability is nice, but the double white could be difficult (and it dies to all the enchantment hate running around).
And thanks for the feedback, everyone. I've only been playing the deck for a few days, so the more people play and share their experiences, the better. Here is my updated list.
Your list looks really solid now, I'd maybe even cut down to 2 Boons and 2 Stances if you feel like adding Bile Blight to the main deck again (I sense a fair amount of token decks coming out with Monastery Mentor).
I might. Bile Blight has overperformed every time I played it in Baggro. I think I'll take it to FNM next week and see how it plays out before I decide, though.
This is my current list. I like the fact it has a plane for late game... Want to try some Athreos, God of Passage in there (maybe 2x), cutting some removals
I would recommend against both. We don't want to hit major late game stuff. Doing so will just make us lose to Abzan, UB, w/e. Warriors should be an aggro deck, not a midrange.
As for Athreos, as I noted, he's not worth it. MAYBE as a one of, but he forces out too many other cards that will serve you better (especially with Erase running around to get rid of him).
I kind of like the Pegasus for the extra evasion, though I'm not sold yet (especially because you now have no way to blank removal spells from your opponent).
As for Raiders' Spoils, I'm iffy. The ability isn't enough for 4 mana, in my opinion. I'd rather be putting more threats on the board in that case.
Hey! Just saw this! I've been eyeing a warriors build since Khans, but I think FRF gave the archetype enough of a boost to be fringe. I can't wait to see your matchups. Looking over your list right now, I think I'd be very scared to be sitting across from someone playing Abzan Aggro.
I went 4-0 at this past FNM, lost in top 8. I think the Abzan rout works if it's a splash. Abzan Ascendancy works wonders against removal. Just being able to replace your dead guys with evasive guys helps. Temples were due to lack of more Windswept Heaths, and it definitely felt slower. Sorin, like it's been stated, usually comes out for a turn and dies. That being said, he either soaks damage the next turn, or you can just get so far ahead. Better than using Rush of Battle, IMO.
Hey! Just saw this! I've been eyeing a warriors build since Khans, but I think FRF gave the archetype enough of a boost to be fringe. I can't wait to see your matchups. Looking over your list right now, I think I'd be very scared to be sitting across from someone playing Abzan Aggro.
Yeah, Abzan Aggro has definitely been picking up and it's a strong list. I haven't played against it yet, so we'll see. Luckily there's not a whole lot of it floating around my LGS.
I went 4-0 at this past FNM, lost in top 8. I think the Abzan rout works if it's a splash. Abzan Ascendancy works wonders against removal. Just being able to replace your dead guys with evasive guys helps. Temples were due to lack of more Windswept Heaths, and it definitely felt slower. Sorin, like it's been stated, usually comes out for a turn and dies. That being said, he either soaks damage the next turn, or you can just get so far ahead. Better than using Rush of Battle, IMO.
It's possible. I've been considering splashing for either of the Ascendancies (Mardu or Abzan, both have possibilities). I'm going to put more time into a straight Orzhov list before I decide whether splashing is worth it, though.
I have problems with the ascendancies that aren't Jeskai. They're so color intensive to get on the third turn, honestly. I guess in this deck you probably play them on turn 4, after your Strike Leader? (Sorry, I don't play the deck, so I'm not totally sure on sequencing.
If you're going to play them, though, I think Mardu is the better choice. I feel like you could get some use out of the red splash, and the ascendancy itself not only adds to swarm potential, but is an effective out against Anger of the Gods which could really wreck this deck. I guess it isn't wrath protection, though. So there might be some validity in going with Abzan Ascendancy (Though I would probably splash Green a lot lighter than I would red.)
Actually, speaking of splashing red, Goblin Rabblemaster is a Warrior. Perhaps it has a home in a mardu version of the deck? I think running it as a 2-3 of might be solid, but I guess we do have our Strike Leader in that role, so I don't know.
I have problems with the ascendancies that aren't Jeskai. They're so color intensive to get on the third turn, honestly. I guess in this deck you probably play them on turn 4, after your Strike Leader? (Sorry, I don't play the deck, so I'm not totally sure on sequencing)
Actually, speaking of splashing red, Goblin Rabblemaster is a Warrior. Perhaps it has a home in a mardu version of the deck? I think running it as a 2-3 of might be solid, but I guess we do have our Strike Leader in that role, so I don't know.
I've run Mardu Warriors with him and come Friday will run it without him. I have not liked him in my experience. I already have many things that just die to much removal (i.e., most of the warriors) and he essentially just represents a more costly warrior that just dies. Half the time he makes no more than two tokens, and half that time attacks through for damage.
If you're going to play them, though, I think Mardu is the better choice. I feel like you could get some use out of the red splash, and the ascendancy itself not only adds to swarm potential, but is an effective out against Anger of the Gods which could really wreck this deck. I guess it isn't wrath protection, though. So there might be some validity in going with Abzan Ascendancy (Though I would probably splash Green a lot lighter than I would red.)
Yeah been playtesting a bit recently with both the Ascendancies. I think they're both strong, they both protect from wrath and both synergise with Brutal Hordechief. However I just feel Mardu itself has stronger cards that we could tap into, alongside the Ascendancy. I think for the coming FNM I want to play something like:
Just throwing this out there, don't know if anyone else caught this, but you have 6 downfall in both the op and your second post of the decklist )2 in the main, 4 in the side). Personally, I've been running mono black for the past couple of months and theres really no reason for a black based aggro deck to not run 4 Thoughtseize. I liked Boon when I was playing mono B but my problem with it was that it did nothing against bile blight, drown, and utter end. Maybe warrior's is different in that you get extra toughness from the Obelisk / chief.
I would remove the 2 extra downfall from the main, and 2 of the boon's to put in thoughtsieze. I really like having downfall in the main but you could get away with not having them in the main due to stance but now you open up 4 slots in the sideboard.
For the extra sideboard slots, I would consider Merciless Executioner. I dont know how the heroic match up is (and what they added due to fate reforged) but they generally never have a ton of creatures and getting to pick off possibly their 1 big creature )if theyre looking to protect it with god's willing) all while you sac a blood soaked champion sounds amazing.
Whoops, that was a transcription error. It's fixed now. Funnily enough, it was actually supposed to be Executioner, as my testing has shown that he's actually pretty cool. Fantastic against UW Heroic.
I also played Mono Black, and I'm iffy about mainboarding 4 Thoughtseize. I'd much prefer to have the removal and protection mainboard.
Just throwing this out there, don't know if anyone else caught this, but you have 6 downfall in both the op and your second post of the decklist )2 in the main, 4 in the side). Personally, I've been running mono black for the past couple of months and theres really no reason for a black based aggro deck to not run 4 Thoughtseize. I liked Boon when I was playing mono B but my problem with it was that it did nothing against bile blight, drown, and utter end. Maybe warrior's is different in that you get extra toughness from the Obelisk / chief.
I would remove the 2 extra downfall from the main, and 2 of the boon's to put in thoughtsieze. I really like having downfall in the main but you could get away with not having them in the main due to stance but now you open up 4 slots in the sideboard.
For the extra sideboard slots, I would consider Merciless Executioner. I dont know how the heroic match up is (and what they added due to fate reforged) but they generally never have a ton of creatures and getting to pick off possibly their 1 big creature )if theyre looking to protect it with god's willing) all while you sac a blood soaked champion sounds amazing.
Ya that sounds good actually. This one's close to OP's decklist with your suggestions.
Dont really like mardu strike leader. It needs to attack or dash inorder to gain 2/1 token. Brutal hordechief is slightly better IMHO,its lord type effects turns online when it comes to play even without attacking.
Temple is bad for aggro, tapped land is bad. Mana confluence + fetches.
Woe reaper should be a sb card- that lifegain might help you in an aggro mirror but most of the time it'll just be a vanilla one mana 2/1.
lolwut. Because vanilla 2/1's in an aggro deck are bad. Especially ones that synergise with other cards to become 3/1's. I think the one drop warriors in terms of power/utility go like this:
Though I agree I think we should be running 4 Brutal Hordechiefs. I have tested it a few times in a creature/token heavy deck and he's rarely ever bad, even in multiples.
I'm also just gonna throw it out there that the Chief of the Scale currently is not good enough and I don't think should be included, at least not main board. I just don't see the value he gives. The only time he generates value is against token heavy decks, so we can elevate above the 1 toughness. Which then for me makes him a SB card.
With so little ways to trigger heroic how do you reach that conclusion about tormented hero? it'll be a vanilla 2/1 for one (not bad, just no utility compared to other one drops). Shadowspear gets a point of power through blockers and dash makes control decks sweat and blanks all the sorcery speed removal running around. Woe reapers upside only applies in certain matchups and has the downside of needing you to run more duals and plains, dropping your decks consistency.
The same applies to Battle Brawler- it means you need to run stuff like b light in a format where main board erase is not uncommon, Swiftclaw on the other hand can attack through caryatids and coursers with a lord.
Chief of the scale has far far more utility in combat allowing you to swing in with impunity in more games.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on our points. I'm not saying that these cards don't have utility or anything, I mean Chief of the Scale isn't a bad card by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't feel that you'll get the kind of value out of him that you would want. For example because he himself only has 3 toughness, he does not protect other warriors who have 3 power (read: Brutal Hordechief) from Anger of the Gods. If you're banking on him to protect your creatures from lots of one token critters, then a simple removal spell can leave them all exposed. I dunno, it just doesn't make me feel as safe with my cards as I'd want it to.
My conclusion with Tormented Hero is on the simple premise that it is a 2/1 and not a 1/1. Maybe this is just me, but the potential to be able to swing for 3 damage turn two has, in my experience, been of the utmost importance. This is simply because of cards like Sylvan Caryatid and Fleecemane Lion. Your opponent is unlikely to trade in this scenario. Unfortunately with the Mardu Shadowspear, you may not be able to attack turn 2 if they play a Rakshasa Deathdealer (among others). Again, for me, attacking turn 2 helps put the opponent on the backfoot, which the Shadowspear does less well and actually feels like it makes the deck less consistent. I will agree though that dash is a really useful ability, especially against control. Again, as it is has most utility against this deck, I would not main board it and do not plan to sideboard it.
To be fair to Battle Brawler, he too can attack though the cards you speak of with a lord (either 4/2 FS or 3/3 FS). I was hesitant with him because of the potential lack of consistency, but the way I'm running it I have not found this to be an issue so far. Plus, like I said, I find the first strike to be highly relevant, so feel it is worth the risk.
Apologies if I seemed a little rude earlier, I was just a little flabbergasted that someone could suggest Mardu Woe-Reaper is not mainboardable in a Warrior deck. Maybe I'm just a little biased towards him.
I think Warriors must be a mardu deck. Otherwise you leave out goblin rabblemaster, war-name hero, mardu ascendancy, alesha, collateral damage, etc.
The problem with going 3 colors is that the mana isn't worth it. It woks fine in junk (Abzan) because they are playing green and it allows them to play siege rhino. but talk about having lands come into play tapped / not having the right color on turn 1 to play a 2/1 or (most importantly) taking so much pain from your own lands to make up for the fact that other lands come into play tapped that you just die to mono red because you have no way to recover. The worst thing I can think of is to play a deck with Caves of Kolios, Battlefield Forge, Mana confluence, fetch lands and putting myself to 15 on turn 3 against a junk (abzan for you newer players) aggro deck, or the mono red deck that just lightning strikes the rabble when I play it. It's a novel idea but between taking to much damage off your lands / the tempo loss from not having the correct colors isn't worth the splash for creatures that the format was already set to beat on.
Honestly it's a problem i'm currently struggling with. I normally have been playing just mono black for the past couple of months and always put up good results with it. Now with the new set coming out I wanted to try warriors, but im still struggling with whether it's actually better for me to put white in the deck and take damage from my own lands / having awkward hands with only temples as lands in order to play cards that have a lot synergy with each other.
Whoops, that was a transcription error. It's fixed now. Funnily enough, it was actually supposed to be Executioner, as my testing has shown that he's actually pretty cool. Fantastic against UW Heroic.
I also played Mono Black, and I'm iffy about mainboarding 4 Thoughtseize. I'd much prefer to have the removal and protection mainboard.
As i've seen more and more heroic decklsit's come out there is going to be a giant problem with Monastery Mentor. Being able to make token's to sac to the 3/1 is just disastrous. Frankly I'm not sure how we beat that card unless it's hold up 2 removal spells at once for it. Honestly Thoughtseize is my catch all card. Yeah it sucks like any discard spell would after turn 5 but the incredible tempo you get from turn 1 2/1 dude turn 2 thoughtseize courser / drown / anger then play another 2/1 just can win you games. I can't tell you how often I take an opponents courser then watch then stumble for 2 turns and play nothing and then die to a mogis's marauder.
The fetches I happen to have for modern and are there solely to fuel murderous cut. Hero's Downfall would be a better choice in that slot, but I traded mine away. Chief of the Scale is a bit of an odd choice, but I included him to push me up to 10 sources of white for Battle Brawler. No Bile Blight because I opted for Sign in Blood instead. Maybe Brutal Hordechief deserves a spot? I'm not crazy about a 4 drop, especially with tap lands in the deck, but I bestowing a Herald of Torment was never really a problem in mono black aggro. I didn't include Temple of Silence because I don't have them atm, but they'd be better than the Barrens.
Deck is super aggressive with 16 2 power 1 Drops, 8 2 Drops, 5 3 drops and 1 4 drops. The removal is made for the tempo game to push through early game damage. Its been testing really well and it meets my playstyle which is tribal aggro.
Now I want to add some insight into the whole Tormented hero Shadowspear debate. Lets just say this. This deck always wants 2 power one drops. It is Huge in this deck. Both potentially are 2 power one drops. I will say without the shadow of a doubt that in my testing shadowspear has been my best card. Period. His Dash ability is nuts, especially late game when the board is empty you can dash him in then pay the raid on bloodsoaked champion to get him back out. and then potentially dash him again next turn. You do not need to trigger Hero's heroic ability all that much but against some decks I have used my own removal on tormented hero to drain my opponent for 1 dmg in response to it eating a removal spell from my opponent. Hitting him with Pharika's cure is basically deal 1 dmg and gain 3 life for 2 black with tormented hero.
The deck is aggro and it wants to deal as much dmg as possible, any way possible. It will have huge game against other aggro decks because it is just as fast and can win the tempo race because of its ability to gain life. Against control decks the dash abilities should never be overlooked. against Midrange decks, its hard to 1 for 1 this deck when this deck can often time recur creatures.
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Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
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I think Warriors must be a mardu deck. Otherwise you leave out goblin rabblemaster, war-name hero, mardu ascendancy, alesha, collateral damage, etc.
The problem with going 3 colors is that the mana isn't worth it. It woks fine in junk (Abzan) because they are playing green and it allows them to play siege rhino. but talk about having lands come into play tapped / not having the right color on turn 1 to play a 2/1 or (most importantly) taking so much pain from your own lands to make up for the fact that other lands come into play tapped that you just die to mono red because you have no way to recover. The worst thing I can think of is to play a deck with Caves of Kolios, Battlefield Forge, Mana confluence, fetch lands and putting myself to 15 on turn 3 against a junk (abzan for you newer players) aggro deck, or the mono red deck that just lightning strikes the rabble when I play it. It's a novel idea but between taking to much damage off your lands / the tempo loss from not having the correct colors isn't worth the splash for creatures that the format was already set to beat on.
Honestly it's a problem i'm currently struggling with. I normally have been playing just mono black for the past couple of months and always put up good results with it. Now with the new set coming out I wanted to try warriors, but im still struggling with whether it's actually better for me to put white in the deck and take damage from my own lands / having awkward hands with only temples as lands in order to play cards that have a lot synergy with each other.
Mardu ascendancy is the only way this deck could survive to anger or drown in sorrow.
At least in my experience which is all pre-FRF. The Dash mechanic could change this. Haste is the best weapon against sorcery speed sweepers so perhaps Dash will allow the deck to not fold without the safety net of Mardu Ascendancy.
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Orzhov Warriors is a fast aggro deck that relies on the warrior synergy from KTK and FRF to put out several powerful, efficient creatures in a short period of time. The use of lords and the new Dash mechanic means that we'll have several dangerous threats out at one time that, unlike most tribal decks, are powerful and efficient on their own.
4 Temple of Silence
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
8 Swamp
5 Plains
Creatures (1 drops)
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Mardu Woe-Reaper
4 Tormented Hero
3 Battle Brawler
4 Chief of the Edge
3 Chief of the Scale
(3 drops)
4 Mardu Strike Leader
(4 Drops)
2 Brutal Hordechief
Instants
3 Boon of Erebos
3 Valorous Stance
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Obelisk of Urd
3 Bile Blight
2 Merciless Executioner
1 Brutal Hordechief
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Utter End
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
So this is my list that I've started testing with.
Note that if you don't see a card in the following list, it's because I don't feel that it's worth mentioning.
Card Choices
1 Drops:
2 Drops
3 Drops
4 Drops
5 drops(!)
Artifacts
Sorceries
Instants
Planeswalkers
Sorin, Solemn Visitor: He's a powerful walker and slots fairly nicely. However, he messes with the curve a bit and tends to die when he comes down. I'd play no more than 2.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion: IMO, her mana cost is too high. She's usually a game-ender when she comes down, but this deck doesn't necessarily want to tap out to play her, and she wrecks the curve.
Lands
We want to avoid too many ETB tapped lands, so Scoured Barrens is out.
Temple of Silence: Mana fixing and draw fixing. Should be your only ETB tapped land. I'd run 4.
Caves of Koilos: Untapped fixing. Can be painful, but likely only during the first few turns. Run 4.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth: Black fixing is an absolute necessity. Legendary, so run no more than 2.
Mana Confluence: Untapped fixing that's always painful. I'm not too sold on the card in this deck, yet. Run no more than 2.
Splashing!
Note that splashing will make your manabase inherently less stable, slower and/or more painful. Thus I won't be listing that in the cons section, as it's implied.
Blue: pls no
Red: Going full Mardu gives you some options.
Edit1: Added splashes and more card choices.
Edit2 (3/30/2015): Updated with DTK cards.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Further I really like your primer. Your opinions on many of the cards seem to match my own in terms of the experiences I have had with them. Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw.
I have been doing some playtesting of my own with the Orzhov version of Warriors (other version is Mardu - not sure about Abzan tbh) and have tried to go the more full-on aggro route (using 16 one drops + playset of Brutal Hordechief et al) but found it lacking, so I think the direction you are positing is probably more the way to go.
From my experience I think what these kind of aggro-like decks need to do to be competitive is to compliment early damage with unavoidable midgame/late damage. I currently do this in Mardu colours using Herald of Torment and Butcher of the Horde. Brutal Hordechief is now another option.
I would, however suggest playing a playset of Boon of Erebos in the main. The card for me just provides far too much utility in almost all matchups to be left to the sideboard. Given the cards you've posted, it will either:
1) Save an important creature from death (the primary function of Gods Willing).
2) Act as removal for problem creatures like Siege Rhino and Courser of Kruphix.
It also acts as an excellent way to place seeds of doubt in your opponent when you attack. It can also push through the last bit of damage, a la Sign in Blood, and its lifeloss can be slightly offset by Tormented Hero. Although I run Seeker of the Way, which has excellent synergy with the card.
Speaking of Seeker of the Way, where is he in your list? Surely he deserves at least a mention! Saying that he obviously performs better in decks with more noncreature spells. Personally I'd run him if my warrior deck runs at least 12 noncreature spells, and especially if I'm running Herald of Torment on top.
Another card to consider for the sideboard is Merciless Executioner. He's not card advantage but I feel like I wouldn't care if the effective trade was my one drop versus their Siege Rhino. He feels like a pretty good card to use on the draw against Abzan aggro and other such decks.
I feel like Mardu Strike Leader is a sideboard card. As I mentioned before I run Mardu Warrior tribal and, often, I don't like Goblin Rabblemaster. My deck is not controlly enough to enable a situation where he excels, and so often he just dies and does nothing. However I still feel that Goblin Rabblemaster is better than Mardu Strike Leader, but that Mardu Strike Leader would be fantastic against control. Thus, I'd sideboard him for the control matchups.
Last point (honestly): No Spear of Heliod? Feel like it would be better than Obelisk of Urd. Maybe run both if you're feeling greedy.
I agree with a fair number of these. I've always liked Boon of Erebos a bit more, but people were swearing up and down that Gods Willing was better. I can see both sides, but having played mono black aggro for awhile, I really like Boon.
Sign in Blood can definitely go out. It's my preference to play at least one copy main just in case you're running low on resources (which can happen in a deck like this), but a 0 list could work.
I'm not sure if I like the full aggro version with Shadowspear, however. The downfall of mono black was that it didn't have any way to force through damage in the later turns, and its things died way too easily. Hordechief allows you to set up blocks that you like and sets up some lategame power with his attack ability.
I don't really like Sorin in the deck either. I know some people were trying it, but he often just died the turn after you played him. There's lots of other things I could be doing for 4 mana.
And note that this primer is a rough one. I was typing it up between classes, so some cards aren't on there that I wanted to be. I'm going to be updating the rest of it tonight.
Sure. I'm tempted to run Hero's Downfall in the main, just because it deals with so much.
I agree, and I think that I'll be moving them to the main.
I actually don't like seeker in this deck very much. I could be wrong and he's great, but I never really saw much value out of him.
As for Strike Leader, the fact that he has Dash makes him playable in my book. It gives your opponent much less time to kill him.
As for spear, it's possible. The ability is nice, but the double white could be difficult (and it dies to all the enchantment hate running around).
And thanks for the feedback, everyone. I've only been playing the deck for a few days, so the more people play and share their experiences, the better. Here is my updated list.
4 Temple of Silence
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
8 Swamp
5 Plains
Creatures (1 drops)
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Mardu Woe-Reaper
4 Tormented Hero
3 Battle Brawler
4 Chief of the Edge
3 Chief of the Scale
(3 drops)
4 Mardu Strike Leader
(4 Drops)
2 Brutal Hordechief
Instants
3 Boon of Erebos
3 Valorous Stance
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Obelisk of Urd
3 Bile Blight
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Brutal Hordechief
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Utter End
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
I might. Bile Blight has overperformed every time I played it in Baggro. I think I'll take it to FNM next week and see how it plays out before I decide, though.
I would recommend against both. We don't want to hit major late game stuff. Doing so will just make us lose to Abzan, UB, w/e. Warriors should be an aggro deck, not a midrange.
As for Athreos, as I noted, he's not worth it. MAYBE as a one of, but he forces out too many other cards that will serve you better (especially with Erase running around to get rid of him).
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
Here is the list I am currently toying with:
2 Temple of Silence
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 Swamp
5 Plains
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Mardu Woe-Reaper
4 Tormented Hero
4 Cavalry Pegasus
4 Chief of the Edge
2 Chief of the Scale
4 Mardu Strike Leader
3 Brutal Hordechief
3 Bile Blight
2 Hero's Downfall
Enchantment
3 Raiders' Spoils
Still working on the sideboard.
As for Raiders' Spoils, I'm iffy. The ability isn't enough for 4 mana, in my opinion. I'd rather be putting more threats on the board in that case.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Chief of the Scale
4 Mardu Skullhunter
4 Heir of the Wilds
2 Seeker of the Way
4 Mardu Hordechief
1 Timely Hordemate
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Hero's Downfall
1 Utter End
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Llanowar Wastes
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
3 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
I went 4-0 at this past FNM, lost in top 8. I think the Abzan rout works if it's a splash. Abzan Ascendancy works wonders against removal. Just being able to replace your dead guys with evasive guys helps. Temples were due to lack of more Windswept Heaths, and it definitely felt slower. Sorin, like it's been stated, usually comes out for a turn and dies. That being said, he either soaks damage the next turn, or you can just get so far ahead. Better than using Rush of Battle, IMO.
Yeah, Abzan Aggro has definitely been picking up and it's a strong list. I haven't played against it yet, so we'll see. Luckily there's not a whole lot of it floating around my LGS.
It's possible. I've been considering splashing for either of the Ascendancies (Mardu or Abzan, both have possibilities). I'm going to put more time into a straight Orzhov list before I decide whether splashing is worth it, though.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
If you're going to play them, though, I think Mardu is the better choice. I feel like you could get some use out of the red splash, and the ascendancy itself not only adds to swarm potential, but is an effective out against Anger of the Gods which could really wreck this deck. I guess it isn't wrath protection, though. So there might be some validity in going with Abzan Ascendancy (Though I would probably splash Green a lot lighter than I would red.)
Actually, speaking of splashing red, Goblin Rabblemaster is a Warrior. Perhaps it has a home in a mardu version of the deck? I think running it as a 2-3 of might be solid, but I guess we do have our Strike Leader in that role, so I don't know.
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CCCCCommander Decklists - TheorycraftCCCC
Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
I think you'd want to play it turn 3 into a Brutal Hordechief/Butcher of the Horde turn 4.
I've run Mardu Warriors with him and come Friday will run it without him. I have not liked him in my experience. I already have many things that just die to much removal (i.e., most of the warriors) and he essentially just represents a more costly warrior that just dies. Half the time he makes no more than two tokens, and half that time attacks through for damage.
Yeah been playtesting a bit recently with both the Ascendancies. I think they're both strong, they both protect from wrath and both synergise with Brutal Hordechief. However I just feel Mardu itself has stronger cards that we could tap into, alongside the Ascendancy. I think for the coming FNM I want to play something like:
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Mardu Woe-Reaper
4 Tormented Hero
4 Chief of the Edge
3 Seeker of the Way
3 Battle Brawler
4 Brutal Hordechief
Enchantments:
2 Spear of Heliod
2 Mardu Ascendancy
Instants:
3 Crackling Doom
3 Boon of Erebos
2 Valorous Stance
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Mana Confluence
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Temple of Silence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
2 Mardu Strike Leader
2 Circle of Flame
2 Erase
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
3 Mardu Woe-Reaper
4 Tormented Hero
3 Battle Brawler
2 Seeker of the Way
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Mardu Strike Leader
4 Brutal Hordechief
1 Spear of Heliod
Spells (8)
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Boon of Erebos
Lands (23)
8 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
2 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thoughtseize
3 Valorous Stance
2 Mogis's Marauder
2 Banishing Light
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Standard: Orzhov Aggro
I would remove the 2 extra downfall from the main, and 2 of the boon's to put in thoughtsieze. I really like having downfall in the main but you could get away with not having them in the main due to stance but now you open up 4 slots in the sideboard.
For the extra sideboard slots, I would consider Merciless Executioner. I dont know how the heroic match up is (and what they added due to fate reforged) but they generally never have a ton of creatures and getting to pick off possibly their 1 big creature )if theyre looking to protect it with god's willing) all while you sac a blood soaked champion sounds amazing.
I also played Mono Black, and I'm iffy about mainboarding 4 Thoughtseize. I'd much prefer to have the removal and protection mainboard.
URW Control
WBG Abzan
GRW Burn
EDH
GR Rosheen Meanderer
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Mardu Woe-Reaper
4 Tormented Hero
3 Battle Brawler
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Mardu Strike Leader
3 Brutal Hordechief
Artifact (1)
1 Spear of Heliod
Sorcery (4)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Valorous Stance
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Boon of Erebos
Land (23)
8 Swamp
4 Plains
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
2 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Mogis's Marauder
3 Merciless Executioner
2 Seeker of the Way
2 Banishing Light
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Ajani Steadfast
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Standard: Orzhov Aggro
Dont really like mardu strike leader. It needs to attack or dash inorder to gain 2/1 token. Brutal hordechief is slightly better IMHO,its lord type effects turns online when it comes to play even without attacking.
Temple is bad for aggro, tapped land is bad. Mana confluence + fetches.
lolwut. Because vanilla 2/1's in an aggro deck are bad. Especially ones that synergise with other cards to become 3/1's. I think the one drop warriors in terms of power/utility go like this:
1) Bloodsoaked Champion
2) Mardu Woe-Reaper
3) Tormented Hero
4) Mardu Shadowspear
Though I agree I think we should be running 4 Brutal Hordechiefs. I have tested it a few times in a creature/token heavy deck and he's rarely ever bad, even in multiples.
I don't think we should be running Oreskos Swiftclaw though. I think the Chief of the Edge + Battle Brawler are the two staples for me. The first strike on Battle Brawler is really relevant.
I'm also just gonna throw it out there that the Chief of the Scale currently is not good enough and I don't think should be included, at least not main board. I just don't see the value he gives. The only time he generates value is against token heavy decks, so we can elevate above the 1 toughness. Which then for me makes him a SB card.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on our points. I'm not saying that these cards don't have utility or anything, I mean Chief of the Scale isn't a bad card by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't feel that you'll get the kind of value out of him that you would want. For example because he himself only has 3 toughness, he does not protect other warriors who have 3 power (read: Brutal Hordechief) from Anger of the Gods. If you're banking on him to protect your creatures from lots of one token critters, then a simple removal spell can leave them all exposed. I dunno, it just doesn't make me feel as safe with my cards as I'd want it to.
My conclusion with Tormented Hero is on the simple premise that it is a 2/1 and not a 1/1. Maybe this is just me, but the potential to be able to swing for 3 damage turn two has, in my experience, been of the utmost importance. This is simply because of cards like Sylvan Caryatid and Fleecemane Lion. Your opponent is unlikely to trade in this scenario. Unfortunately with the Mardu Shadowspear, you may not be able to attack turn 2 if they play a Rakshasa Deathdealer (among others). Again, for me, attacking turn 2 helps put the opponent on the backfoot, which the Shadowspear does less well and actually feels like it makes the deck less consistent. I will agree though that dash is a really useful ability, especially against control. Again, as it is has most utility against this deck, I would not main board it and do not plan to sideboard it.
To be fair to Battle Brawler, he too can attack though the cards you speak of with a lord (either 4/2 FS or 3/3 FS). I was hesitant with him because of the potential lack of consistency, but the way I'm running it I have not found this to be an issue so far. Plus, like I said, I find the first strike to be highly relevant, so feel it is worth the risk.
Apologies if I seemed a little rude earlier, I was just a little flabbergasted that someone could suggest Mardu Woe-Reaper is not mainboardable in a Warrior deck. Maybe I'm just a little biased towards him.
The problem with going 3 colors is that the mana isn't worth it. It woks fine in junk (Abzan) because they are playing green and it allows them to play siege rhino. but talk about having lands come into play tapped / not having the right color on turn 1 to play a 2/1 or (most importantly) taking so much pain from your own lands to make up for the fact that other lands come into play tapped that you just die to mono red because you have no way to recover. The worst thing I can think of is to play a deck with Caves of Kolios, Battlefield Forge, Mana confluence, fetch lands and putting myself to 15 on turn 3 against a junk (abzan for you newer players) aggro deck, or the mono red deck that just lightning strikes the rabble when I play it. It's a novel idea but between taking to much damage off your lands / the tempo loss from not having the correct colors isn't worth the splash for creatures that the format was already set to beat on.
Honestly it's a problem i'm currently struggling with. I normally have been playing just mono black for the past couple of months and always put up good results with it. Now with the new set coming out I wanted to try warriors, but im still struggling with whether it's actually better for me to put white in the deck and take damage from my own lands / having awkward hands with only temples as lands in order to play cards that have a lot synergy with each other.
As i've seen more and more heroic decklsit's come out there is going to be a giant problem with Monastery Mentor. Being able to make token's to sac to the 3/1 is just disastrous. Frankly I'm not sure how we beat that card unless it's hold up 2 removal spells at once for it. Honestly Thoughtseize is my catch all card. Yeah it sucks like any discard spell would after turn 5 but the incredible tempo you get from turn 1 2/1 dude turn 2 thoughtseize courser / drown / anger then play another 2/1 just can win you games. I can't tell you how often I take an opponents courser then watch then stumble for 2 turns and play nothing and then die to a mogis's marauder.
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Tormented Hero
4 Chief of the Edge
2 Chief of the Scale
3 Battle Brawler
4 Mardu Strike Leader
3 Mogis's Marauder
3 Sign in Blood
3 Murderous Cut
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Scoured Barrens
1 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Polluted Delta
5 Swamp
4 Plains
The fetches I happen to have for modern and are there solely to fuel murderous cut. Hero's Downfall would be a better choice in that slot, but I traded mine away. Chief of the Scale is a bit of an odd choice, but I included him to push me up to 10 sources of white for Battle Brawler. No Bile Blight because I opted for Sign in Blood instead. Maybe Brutal Hordechief deserves a spot? I'm not crazy about a 4 drop, especially with tap lands in the deck, but I bestowing a Herald of Torment was never really a problem in mono black aggro. I didn't include Temple of Silence because I don't have them atm, but they'd be better than the Barrens.
4 Mardu Woe-Ripper
4 Bloodstained Champion
4 Tormented Hero
4 Mardu Shadowspear
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Battle Brawler
4 Mardu Strike Leader
2 Brutal Hordechief
1 Merciless Executioner
3 Bile Blight
3 Pharika's Cure
2 Valorous Stance
Lands
4 Cave of Koilos
4 Plains
13 Swamp
3 Drown in Sorrow
2 Mogis Marauder
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Harsh Sustenance
1 Atheros, God of Passage
1 Merciless Executioner
2 Nighthowler
2 Whip of Erebos
1 Return to the Ranks
Deck is super aggressive with 16 2 power 1 Drops, 8 2 Drops, 5 3 drops and 1 4 drops. The removal is made for the tempo game to push through early game damage. Its been testing really well and it meets my playstyle which is tribal aggro.
Now I want to add some insight into the whole Tormented hero Shadowspear debate. Lets just say this. This deck always wants 2 power one drops. It is Huge in this deck. Both potentially are 2 power one drops. I will say without the shadow of a doubt that in my testing shadowspear has been my best card. Period. His Dash ability is nuts, especially late game when the board is empty you can dash him in then pay the raid on bloodsoaked champion to get him back out. and then potentially dash him again next turn. You do not need to trigger Hero's heroic ability all that much but against some decks I have used my own removal on tormented hero to drain my opponent for 1 dmg in response to it eating a removal spell from my opponent. Hitting him with Pharika's cure is basically deal 1 dmg and gain 3 life for 2 black with tormented hero.
The deck is aggro and it wants to deal as much dmg as possible, any way possible. It will have huge game against other aggro decks because it is just as fast and can win the tempo race because of its ability to gain life. Against control decks the dash abilities should never be overlooked. against Midrange decks, its hard to 1 for 1 this deck when this deck can often time recur creatures.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Mardu ascendancy is the only way this deck could survive to anger or drown in sorrow.
Agree.
Post board, you will need Mardu Ascendancy to beat the mini-sweepers of Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods and also help you not get blown out by Bile Blight and Arc Lightning. If we still had Duress in the format, this might not be the case, but as it stands, you have to save your Thoughtseize for End Hostilities, Perilous Vault (least problematic) and now Crux of Fate. Yes, we have the Duress mode of Mardu Charm, but three mana is a lot and the instant speed is great against Courser of Kruphix decks (oh, nice End Hostilities on top, end of your draw step, let's not let you cast that) but otherwise it really under performs.
At least in my experience which is all pre-FRF. The Dash mechanic could change this. Haste is the best weapon against sorcery speed sweepers so perhaps Dash will allow the deck to not fold without the safety net of Mardu Ascendancy.