I haven't been able to actually test this against my meta. I've only playtested it online. Currently this is my build based on the tests and suggestions. Again, sideboard is up for discussion BIG TIME. I'm putting this deck on the backburner as I already have a standard deck to play and I am trying to get more into modern. I'm waiting to see what comes out in the following khans-block sets in hopes of some more cards like rakshasa deathdealer will show up.
Good call, I have a few of those cards. A few in the sideboard would certainly help in the matchups you described. Also, what are the opinions on Nissa being in the sideboard? I have her in there because I pulled her a while ago and can see how her +1's could be useful but I'm not sure if 5 mana for something that could work is where I'd want to be for this deck
So far in playtests I've gone
Jeskai tokens: 2-1
Sultai reanimator: 1-2
UW heroic: 1-2
Mono-blue aggro: 0-2
Weird 4-color lifegain control: 2-1
R/B constellation aggro: 2-0
I tried mono-blue aggro because it looked like a blast and could not win a game with it to save my life. Then I play against it with this deck and I go 0-2... of course haha. They drew pedal to the metal gas both games.
I've been thinking about a really greedy version of this deck, splashing white solely for Siege Rhino. Not sure if I'm just playing a bad version of Azbhan Midrange, but this is my attempt to just pump a crap load of bad ass 3/4 drops into a package where we can just keep beating them down.
I've been thinking about a really greedy version of this deck, splashing white solely for Siege Rhino. Not sure if I'm just playing a bad version of Azbhan Midrange, but this is my attempt to just pump a crap load of bad ass 3/4 drops into a package where we can just keep beating them down.
I've been doing the same thing. It can work, but your setup may not be correct. You're doing weak midrange, when you should probably be doing aggro with a strong top end and a consideration for preemptive meta attacks. Your curve is dominated by 3cc spells that are not threatening against current meta without more appropriate context. I'm running something like this:
More 1cc and 2cc spells, much tighter low end curve, and more meta-sensitive 3cc spells (anafenza is busted in omniwhip meta-giving us a way to fight whip without diluting our goals- and her +1 ability makes your rhinos win). Elves are iffy, and I often cut them for rotating cast of weenies like bloodsoaked champion.. But I do like that turn one elf enables turn 2 master/anafenza or tap land + 2cc threat. Bile blight is a middle finger for hornet queen, sidisi, heroic and goblin hordes. Read the bones, likewise, is to help fight against all the grindy 2 for 1 mid rangers and decks that seek to 1 for 1 with removal. We also get access to sideboard rock stars like hushwing gryff, which turns about 15 main deck creatures into vanilla threats.
I quite like that! Yeah, I've just come back to playing the game and even after another day of playing, I can see just how rough that previous set up is. Out of curiousity, why have you gone with the 4 Heir, 2 Rakshasa instead of the other way around? I feel like Rakshasha can be more explosive?
I prefer heir because he doesn't require mana commitment early on. I want to be playing multiple spells early and often. Midrange has to spend a turn either dealing with him (sweet, enjoy that Master next turn), or casting their own threat which can't block him. Once he starts swinging for 3, he's a real nuisance.. and if he gets anafenza'd up, big trouble. Rakshasa is an early threat if it happens to work out that way.. But I prefer to draw him mid game when he comes down with both abilities online. He's difficult to block or attack into- and tons of main deck removal can't handle him.
I really wanted to like reaper. Erhnam Djinn was one of my all time favorite creatures back I the day, and I bought a play set of reapers day1.. Unfortunately rhino just way outclasses her at 4, and polukranos ability is indispensable.
- Reaper of the wild, IMHO, one of the most underrated cards.
- I think the aggro versión need nylea, trample on every creature is big.
Right? Reaper is a siege rhino body that can take down siege rhino with a mana sink. She is "easier" to cast too. As for Nylea, I like the idea and I might try playtesting it.
- Reaper of the wild, IMHO, one of the most underrated cards.
- I think the aggro versión need nylea, trample on every creature is big.
Right? Reaper is a siege rhino body that can take down siege rhino with a mana sink. She is "easier" to cast too. As for Nylea, I like the idea and I might try playtesting it.
The only thing that i think GB lacks is a follow up. Ok, i cast reaper. What comes next?. Abzan has wingmate roc. RG monsters stormbreath or sahrkhan.
We must play nissa. Turn 3 or 4 reaper, it eats a downfall, and then cast nissa. But i dont know if nissa is good enough in the current meta.
If you're into reaper, by all means give her a shot. I prefer rhino because it's a ridiculous tempo play on turn 4, and more than 1 tends to be game over. There are situations where reaper can be good, but I wouldn't play 4 personally. I want to top deck her mid game, where as I want rhino trampling over turn 4/5.
@contumaz- what you're talking about sounds more midrangey, probably something with pharika and reaper as a solid whip hate and scry crazy engine. I'm not looking to follow up my 4 drops in my build, I'm looking to start casting multiple spells before my opponent and tempo them out. Either approach is valid, but there are decks already running the big follow up plan that do it a lot better than what we've been discussing.
Match 1 - Mono-Red Aggro: 1-2
Game 1 loss - I came out a little slow which is what got me. The game ended up being pretty close.
Game 2 win - Drew gas and Master of the Feast was a boss here. He couldn't handle my plays.
Game 3 loss - SUPER close match. This game easily could gone either way depending on draws. Life totals ended up being very low on both sides in the last turn and he narrowly out-raced me.
Match 2 - G/W Midrange: 2-0
Game 1 win - He didn't draw threats while I drew gas the whole time.
Game 2 win - Very grindy match. He got a hornet queen out and I was able to shoot down all of his flyers with bow of nylea before they were too much trouble (that was wonderful). By the end of the game I had more, larger threats than he could block thanks to pumps from nylea.
Match 3 - Abzan Midrange: 2-1 (Probably the most satisfying win of the night considering this was the deck I have been wanting to playtest against and I haven't had the opportunity to do so)
Game 1 win - Again, drew gas and he didn't have enough answers.
Game 2 loss - He was able to get to the mid-late game and stabilize with Brimaz, Rhino, Caryatid, and Courser so I was forced on my heels. My early game didn't come out strong enough.
Game 3 win - 100% gas again that he couldn't respond to.
Playing at the FNM allowed me to learn a few things. This deck is pretty tough to beat when I can hit on curve with threats and then keep piling them on. Reclamation Sage and Master of the Feast were an all stars in my meta. Sage is definitely staying in the mainboard and I rarely found matches master wasn't useful in. His combo with kin-tree was AMAZING. Getting 2-for-1'ed with kin-tree and master sucks but I've learned when to go all in on kin-tree. Moving forward I might mainboard my hero's downfalls and take out 2 despises, take out the murderous cut from the sideboard, and adding new sideboard tech that will be good against control decks such as extra to-the-face reach. I may also splash white for the purpose of adding anafenza and rhino because I feel they would definitely up the deck's power level. I'd also like to test polukranos in place of reaper at the 4-spot to keep G/B.
I like that low to the ground style. Can just beat the crap out of decks that wait 3 turns to start playing. Personally, I'd definitely be running thoughtseize over despise.
How was reaper? I'm not sold on her, but I want to be
Edit: also, what were some of your sideboard plans?
I like that low to the ground style. Can just beat the crap out of decks that wait 3 turns to start playing. Personally, I'd definitely be running thoughtseize over despise.
How was reaper? I'm not sold on her, but I want to be
Edit: also, what were some of your sideboard plans?
Reaper was good for a beater but I wasn't able to utelize her mana sinks because I had the bow out and I completely forgot to scry with her for a whole game against the G/W midrange deck (which would have been useful to filter for threats and make the game faster). I think I'd like Rhino better for the lightning helix upon entry though. The only thing that makes me hesitant to do that is spreading out my mana.
I would like to run thoughtseize but I really am not interested in dropping the cash/trades on a playset for them when I am trying to get into modern.
As for the sideboard I was thinking I could put nissa back in until I get a trade offer for her. Otherwise I feel like my aggro and midrange matchups are alright. I just need a way to tackle control more effectively. I played against a sultai control deck at my LGS and he handled me when I didn't have enough speed in hand.
Yeah, I just don't see Reaper making the cut over Rhino. He effects the board immediately in almost all game states, requires no further mana commitment and trample is huge in the current meta (reaper is eminently chump blockable). If you do aim to splash white, he's a pretty obvious choice. If you stay B/G, she's usable.. but I don't see her as being particularly strong right now. Polukranos is definitely better.
For control, it's all about planeswalkers and read the bones. They can handle creatures and they can handle planeswalkers.. they can't easily handle both concurrently, especially when disruption combined with card draw strips away their ability to keep up. I always have 4x read the bones, 4x thoughtseize, 2x vraska and 2x nissa against control, minimum. I almost always strip card draw spells with thoughtseize, unless it's a stupid move to not grab something else. If you nab their treasure cruise then drop read the bones, they're in big trouble. Treasure cruise is the go to card draw card right now, so you definitely want to pull that. Dig through time is less scary because it offers great selective capability.. but does little to address card quantity. Sultai in particular only plays a couple offensive cards of importance, so read the bones keeps your hand stocked with answers and they need to spend mana, time and resources dealing with your threats. When they do switch gears, you can drop multiple reactive spells in a turn easily.. and, again, find more gas thanks to read the bones + courser.
Fair and valid points; I'll have to put my copies of read the bones into my sideboard and try it out. Hero's downfall is definitely going in the mainboard after the FNM in replace of 2 despises as I whiffed more than once with despise last Friday. I plan on gathering fetches soon, starting with windswept heath. The windswept heaths could be enough for me to be comfortable with splashing white for rhino and maybe anafenza in replace of the boon satyrs. I'll look into polukranos too.
That curve would be pretty nasty lol. With the release of FRF I may mainboard my 3 erebos gods to prevent lifelink and add another lower cmc card like boon satyr in replace of reaper and try that out. That way I can make a more flexible sideboard.
Unfortunately, I havent seen anything that really stands out to me that can help this deck in FRF. I may try soulflayer at the "4-drop" slot but that's about it. Am I missing something or does anyone else feel the same way?
Nothing really jumps out at me. Bummer. I was hoping for a couple good cards to carry the deck when older sets drop. A real solid 2 drop woulda been nice.
Ainok guide is a really well designed card, but not particularly good here. Whisperwood elemental is solid but, again, I don't know if it works here. Seems really dangerous against some decks.
Temur Sabertooth looks like it could be something. It protects itself and/or can save other creatures of ours. I think it would be better than reaper of the wilds for sure but I don't know if it would be better than Polukranos, World Eater especially if I want to keep the kin-tree synergy going. The more I look into playing polukranos, the more I want to put it in this deck.
Yeah, I was just looking at him too actually. I could try him in place of the boon satyrs as he kind of serves the same purpose as being an early/late game card st the same time. Plus boon satyr hasn't done a whole lot of work for me in this deck with the whole 2 toughness thing so I'm looking for a replacement there anyway.
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4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Herald of Torment
4 Reaper of the Wilds
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Arbor Colossus
Spells (12)
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bile Blight
5 Swamp
5 Forest
4 Jungle Hollow
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Nylea's Disciple
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Read the Bones
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Hornet Queen
Standard: Orzhov Aggro
6 Forest
2 Llanowar Wastes
9 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures
2 Boon Satyr
4 Heir of the Wilds
2 Herald of Torment
4 Master of the Feast
4 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Boon of Erebos
Sorcery
4 Despise
4 Kin-Tree Invocation
Artifact
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Whip of Erebos
4 Bile Blight
2 Ulcerate
2 Herald of Torment
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Read the Bones
I haven't been able to actually test this against my meta. I've only playtested it online. Currently this is my build based on the tests and suggestions. Again, sideboard is up for discussion BIG TIME. I'm putting this deck on the backburner as I already have a standard deck to play and I am trying to get more into modern. I'm waiting to see what comes out in the following khans-block sets in hopes of some more cards like rakshasa deathdealer will show up.
Aggro / Burn match-ups are the worst on your LPs and the few extra life can give you another few turns.
Standard: Orzhov Aggro
2x Boon of Erebos
2x Boon Satyr
1x Bow of Nylea
4x Despise
6x Forest
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Kin-Tree Invocation
2x Llanowar Wastes
4x Master of the Feast
4x Rakshasa Deathdealer
4x Reaper of the Wilds
3x Reclamation Sage
10x Swamp
4x Temple of Malady
2x Whip of Erebos
3x Dark Betrayal
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Gather Courage
3x Hero's Downfall
3x Pharika's Cure
2x Ranger's Guile
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
So far in playtests I've gone
Jeskai tokens: 2-1
Sultai reanimator: 1-2
UW heroic: 1-2
Mono-blue aggro: 0-2
Weird 4-color lifegain control: 2-1
R/B constellation aggro: 2-0
I tried mono-blue aggro because it looked like a blast and could not win a game with it to save my life. Then I play against it with this deck and I go 0-2... of course haha. They drew pedal to the metal gas both games.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Master of the Feast
4 Herald of Torment
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Siege Rhino
2 Despise
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Whip of Erebos
Too greedy? Probably too greedy.
I've been doing the same thing. It can work, but your setup may not be correct. You're doing weak midrange, when you should probably be doing aggro with a strong top end and a consideration for preemptive meta attacks. Your curve is dominated by 3cc spells that are not threatening against current meta without more appropriate context. I'm running something like this:
4 heir of the wilds
2 rakshasa deathdealer
4 master of the feast
3 anafenza, the foremost
4 siege rhino
2 polukranos, world eater
3 bile blight
3 hero's downfall
1 murderous cut
3 read the bones
More 1cc and 2cc spells, much tighter low end curve, and more meta-sensitive 3cc spells (anafenza is busted in omniwhip meta-giving us a way to fight whip without diluting our goals- and her +1 ability makes your rhinos win). Elves are iffy, and I often cut them for rotating cast of weenies like bloodsoaked champion.. But I do like that turn one elf enables turn 2 master/anafenza or tap land + 2cc threat. Bile blight is a middle finger for hornet queen, sidisi, heroic and goblin hordes. Read the bones, likewise, is to help fight against all the grindy 2 for 1 mid rangers and decks that seek to 1 for 1 with removal. We also get access to sideboard rock stars like hushwing gryff, which turns about 15 main deck creatures into vanilla threats.
Some input:
- Reaper of the wild, IMHO, one of the most underrated cards.
- I think the aggro versión need nylea, trample on every creature is big.
I really wanted to like reaper. Erhnam Djinn was one of my all time favorite creatures back I the day, and I bought a play set of reapers day1.. Unfortunately rhino just way outclasses her at 4, and polukranos ability is indispensable.
Right? Reaper is a siege rhino body that can take down siege rhino with a mana sink. She is "easier" to cast too. As for Nylea, I like the idea and I might try playtesting it.
The only thing that i think GB lacks is a follow up. Ok, i cast reaper. What comes next?. Abzan has wingmate roc. RG monsters stormbreath or sahrkhan.
We must play nissa. Turn 3 or 4 reaper, it eats a downfall, and then cast nissa. But i dont know if nissa is good enough in the current meta.
@contumaz- what you're talking about sounds more midrangey, probably something with pharika and reaper as a solid whip hate and scry crazy engine. I'm not looking to follow up my 4 drops in my build, I'm looking to start casting multiple spells before my opponent and tempo them out. Either approach is valid, but there are decks already running the big follow up plan that do it a lot better than what we've been discussing.
4x Bloodsoaked Champion
2x Boon Satyr
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Master of the Feast
4x Rakshasa Deathdealer
4x Reaper of the Wilds
3x Reclamation Sage
Artifact (3)
1x Bow of Nylea
2x Whip of Erebos
6x Forest
2x Jungle Hollow
2x Llanowar Wastes
10x Swamp
2x Temple of Malady
Sorcery (8)
4x Despise
4x Kin-Tree Invocation
Instant (2)
2x Boon of Erebos
3x Dark Betrayal
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Gather Courage
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Murderous Cut
3x Pharika's Cure
2x Ranger's Guile
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
I ended up going 2-1.
Match 1 - Mono-Red Aggro: 1-2
Game 1 loss - I came out a little slow which is what got me. The game ended up being pretty close.
Game 2 win - Drew gas and Master of the Feast was a boss here. He couldn't handle my plays.
Game 3 loss - SUPER close match. This game easily could gone either way depending on draws. Life totals ended up being very low on both sides in the last turn and he narrowly out-raced me.
Match 2 - G/W Midrange: 2-0
Game 1 win - He didn't draw threats while I drew gas the whole time.
Game 2 win - Very grindy match. He got a hornet queen out and I was able to shoot down all of his flyers with bow of nylea before they were too much trouble (that was wonderful). By the end of the game I had more, larger threats than he could block thanks to pumps from nylea.
Match 3 - Abzan Midrange: 2-1 (Probably the most satisfying win of the night considering this was the deck I have been wanting to playtest against and I haven't had the opportunity to do so)
Game 1 win - Again, drew gas and he didn't have enough answers.
Game 2 loss - He was able to get to the mid-late game and stabilize with Brimaz, Rhino, Caryatid, and Courser so I was forced on my heels. My early game didn't come out strong enough.
Game 3 win - 100% gas again that he couldn't respond to.
Playing at the FNM allowed me to learn a few things. This deck is pretty tough to beat when I can hit on curve with threats and then keep piling them on. Reclamation Sage and Master of the Feast were an all stars in my meta. Sage is definitely staying in the mainboard and I rarely found matches master wasn't useful in. His combo with kin-tree was AMAZING. Getting 2-for-1'ed with kin-tree and master sucks but I've learned when to go all in on kin-tree. Moving forward I might mainboard my hero's downfalls and take out 2 despises, take out the murderous cut from the sideboard, and adding new sideboard tech that will be good against control decks such as extra to-the-face reach. I may also splash white for the purpose of adding anafenza and rhino because I feel they would definitely up the deck's power level. I'd also like to test polukranos in place of reaper at the 4-spot to keep G/B.
How was reaper? I'm not sold on her, but I want to be
Edit: also, what were some of your sideboard plans?
Reaper was good for a beater but I wasn't able to utelize her mana sinks because I had the bow out and I completely forgot to scry with her for a whole game against the G/W midrange deck (which would have been useful to filter for threats and make the game faster). I think I'd like Rhino better for the lightning helix upon entry though. The only thing that makes me hesitant to do that is spreading out my mana.
I would like to run thoughtseize but I really am not interested in dropping the cash/trades on a playset for them when I am trying to get into modern.
As for the sideboard I was thinking I could put nissa back in until I get a trade offer for her. Otherwise I feel like my aggro and midrange matchups are alright. I just need a way to tackle control more effectively. I played against a sultai control deck at my LGS and he handled me when I didn't have enough speed in hand.
For control, it's all about planeswalkers and read the bones. They can handle creatures and they can handle planeswalkers.. they can't easily handle both concurrently, especially when disruption combined with card draw strips away their ability to keep up. I always have 4x read the bones, 4x thoughtseize, 2x vraska and 2x nissa against control, minimum. I almost always strip card draw spells with thoughtseize, unless it's a stupid move to not grab something else. If you nab their treasure cruise then drop read the bones, they're in big trouble. Treasure cruise is the go to card draw card right now, so you definitely want to pull that. Dig through time is less scary because it offers great selective capability.. but does little to address card quantity. Sultai in particular only plays a couple offensive cards of importance, so read the bones keeps your hand stocked with answers and they need to spend mana, time and resources dealing with your threats. When they do switch gears, you can drop multiple reactive spells in a turn easily.. and, again, find more gas thanks to read the bones + courser.
T1 thoughtseize
T2 fleecemane
T3 bananafenza
T4 rhino
Ainok guide is a really well designed card, but not particularly good here. Whisperwood elemental is solid but, again, I don't know if it works here. Seems really dangerous against some decks.