there's two versions of RW, tokens with Hordeling Outburst and Raise the Alarm and one more Midrange with Stormbreaths and Phoenixs, which one is better?
if you play Raise the Alarm its because you play Wingmate Roc or Jeskai Ascendency. Overall, i think until the new set the Stormbreath Dragon is better than Wingmate Roc. Ashcloud Pheonix is good against deck that have not too much exile spell. To be honest, i have a love/hate relationship with that card. Right now the stock list is :
I'm not saying there is no other build possible but this is the most played list ATM. The sideboard is really important, because more than half of the games i sideboard-in 8-9 cards.
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
there's two versions of RW, tokens with Hordeling Outburst and Raise the Alarm and one more Midrange with Stormbreaths and Phoenixs, which one is better?
I've been playing the stormbreath list with some success in the last month. My FNM meta consists of mostly Abzan and Mardu midrange. If your meta has a lot of Abzan and/or Mardu then Stormbreath Dragon is your best bet.
there's two versions of RW, tokens with Hordeling Outburst and Raise the Alarm and one more Midrange with Stormbreaths and Phoenixs, which one is better?
I've been playing the stormbreath list with some success in the last month. My FNM meta consists of mostly Abzan and Mardu midrange. If your meta has a lot of Abzan and/or Mardu then Stormbreath Dragon is your best bet.
tks mate, but i gave up on this deck..i just fail on making it work..had a bad, really bad experience with it..it's a great deck, it's having decent results out there...but, for god's sake...it doesn't work with me..
I've been playing sam pardee's list to great results on mtgo. There is a pptq in my area next sunday, and I was wondering what you guys think fate reforged brings to this deck.
Here's sam's list (the best r/w deck imo) for reference:
I was thinking something like -2 ashcloud, -3 brimaz, +2 grandmaster, +3 monastery mentor might be right, but maybe brimaz is better than mentor because he's less vulnerable to removal? We also don't have much card draw, so maybe mentor is bad in here. I could also see cutting the maindeck gryff and moving it to the board as well, but I don't know what I'd cut from the board, probably the 3rd Chandra.
Speaking of Chandra, is outpost siege better than Chandra? This is the biggest question I find me asking myself. Chandra stops blockers, which is pretty huge, and she picks off tokens as well as teams up with lightning strike and stoke to kill big things. Outpost siege isn't anywhere near as vulnerable though, and it makes combat very tricky for opponents who rely on blockers since a hordling outburst threatens to become arc lightning after blocks. Chandra is alittle more flexible because you don't get stuck with one mode the whole game, and I can see you wanting one mode of the siege now and the other latter.
Can valorous stance take the slot of glare of heresy? It's more flexible than glare since it can come in against sultai, and it gives us more outs to things like doomwake giant and it kills courser. Maybe a 2/2/2 split between erase/glare/stance is the right call? Glare is very flexible against jeskai tokens and abzan midrange so I don't know what's better here.
What do you guys think?
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I think Chandra is better because of most of the reasons you listed. I also like to think of her as virtual "life-gain", because if she's being swung at, your opponents creatures aren't being swung at you. I think there is plenty of enchantment removal in the format to get rid of the outpost relatively quickly.
I'm really not sold on the Grand Master. I can get behind Monastery Mentor with all of the non-creature spells that are in this deck.
I'm really not sold on the Grand Master. I can get behind Monastery Mentor with all of the non-creature spells that are in this deck.
See I think it's the other way around. Soulfire is an auto-include for me. Sometimes I flood out, if we get to 7 mana with a grandmaster out then we can start casting and buying back hordling outburst. Not to mention the interaction with stoke (if you aren't familiar, turn 4 if you have soulfire and outburst you can activate it's ability and convoke stoke and you get the stoke back). It's a way to ensure that we don't run out of resources in the mid-late game.
The lifelink on instants and sorceries can be a big deal too, as it makes us harder to race.
Monastery mentor is really good, my main concern is that all of our non-creature spells aside from outburst and walkers are reactive spells, we might not be able/willing to trigger the mentor every turn. The fact that it's a 2/2 also kinda worries me. If we include him I'm wondering if we should include something like defiant strike or tormenting voice. It just seems like the build might have to really change to get a lot out of him.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I went a little different route in my planning. It's essentially a burn deck with some powerful dudes on the field. Cheap spells to trigger Prowess and get across as much damage as quickly as possible. I have no idea how it will work out (don't test online), but it sounded like a good idea in my head.
I went a little different route in my planning. It's essentially a burn deck with some powerful dudes on the field. Cheap spells to trigger Prowess and get across as much damage as quickly as possible. I have no idea how it will work out (don't test online), but it sounded like a good idea in my head.
I don't think you want 4 grand masters, but you 100% want 4 seeker of the way, the games where you land a seeker turn 2 are 10000x easier than the ones you don't. I think seeker is better than grand master early because it can beat a caryatid, trade with a lion, and it lets you trade off a lightning strike for a courser if they block. Maybe take out 2 grand masters and 2 jets for 4 seeker, otherwise I think this could be very solid. Hordling outburst is a consideration as well but you're more burn heavy than the other builds.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Hey guys I think Arcbond should be mainboard here, because if it connects with Grand Master or targets Seeker, you could potentially gain a ridiculous amount of life and sweep the board clean while dealing a decent amount of damage to the opponent.
If you sweep a field for maybe 3-5 damage per target, you're going to gain 20-30 life, putting you turns ahead of your opponent while he searches for a new threat, that and it puts him down a chunk of life, bringing your opponent closer to burn range.
Because Arcbond says the creature does the damage taken, you can really choose how hard you wanna hit everyone. In midrange matches this kills everything unless you're blocking a creature with trample.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
Im pretty much going to run the same deck with a few slight mods. -1 Soulfire, -1 Mentor, -2 Trumpet, -4 Wild. +4 Stoke, +4 Searing. My side will be tuned to my meta. 3 of each. Erase, Gryff, Banishing, Glare, Scouring.
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When A Man Lies
He Murders Some Part Of His World
These Are The Pale Deaths
Which Men Miscall Their Lives
All This I Cannot Bear
To Witness Any Longer
Cannot The Kingdom Of Salvation
Take Me Home
1. Flamewake Phoenix: I think the card is ridiculous especially with Stormbreath Dragon and Citadel Siege
2. Citadel Siege: On the play this card forces our opponent to have to deal with our creatures immediately, on the draw especially against midrange/control this card locks down their biggest threat from attacking and blocking and this even locks down Pearl Lake Ancient!
3. Mastery of the Unseen: This card turns control match up completely in our favor. As a matter of fact this card is so good in testing I'm thinking of switching this with hordeling outburst.
4. Wild Slash: In my meta there are still a lot of boss sligh.
You will gain all the life but it will count as 1 event for triggers... normally this wont matter but if you had Ajani's Pridemate which triggers based on each time you gain life not the amount then it can make a difference
Yeah way back in the day I knew a guy who used to do something similar with Skirk Fire Marshal and Lifelink. Extra fun with using Earnest Fellowship to give all his creatures pro red lol... along that line of thinking your Stormbreath Dragons would dodge the damage setting you up for good post boardwipe position
Well not my idea but sure that's what people mean since they were throwing it in there with seeker. It's part of why he is so good a value bear that gains life when it deals damage or your spells deal damage gaining life at all angles while still passing the vanilla test. Eventually getting to buyback stuff is stuff is just icing.
Along that line Lightning Volley might be interesting... let's all your dudes ping, the lifelinkers gaining you life from it triggers prowess and can be bought back though doubt games should go on long enough to buy it back.
Another idea to making the arcbound/life link combo bigger while shifting the focus to more red instant/sorcery for the control to take better advantage of soulfire is Spite of Mogis. And if you are going for more instant/sorcery for your control Satyr Firedancer adds tons of value.
This is my fav archetype in standard. However, the new set has left me with a dilemma. I like the old build that has been doing really well but i feel like monastery mentor and soulfire grand master with burn spells and arc bond have to be used here somehow...
What are people thinking of building in light of these awesome new cards?
Im trying out a build with
4x seeker of the way
2x soulfire grand master
3x monastery mentor
4x rabblemaster
3x stormbreath
and a number of
chained to the rocks, magma jets, strikes, collateral damage and stokes with arc bonds in the side....
Cutting Brimaz and hordeling outburst was a hard decision but I think with both the mentor and rabblemaster pumping out tokens we should be fine....
Arcbond is better if you have a bigger board. If they have that 1 creature that sort of trumps your guys and swing in , happy to trade 2 or 3 for 1 with you then you block it with all your dudes then arc bond his guy for a massive hit to everyone and a board wipe. So yeah i'd put more creatures in the main.
Dictate of the Twin Gods might be interesting with these combos since it can double multiple times. Imagine arcbonding your life linker when it blocks say rhino... rhino would deal 4 which gets doubled to 8 which makes the arcbond creature deal 8 to everything which gets doubled to 16 dmg to everything with you gaining that much life.
Or for extreme tech arcbond there creature... let's say there creature took a mere 2 dmg. With a single Dictate of the Twin Gods it would make that creature take 4, and then make it deal 8 to each other creature and player, then deflecting palm the 8 that was going to your face and double it to your opponent for 16. With the end result being turning a 2 dmg to your oppenents creature into 8 dmg to all creatures and 24 to your opponents face
I'm wondering if the Rabblemasters maybe should be main though.
I think they are actually better in the side than in the main, because they're so bad on the draw in a non-Elvish Mystic deck. By the time we're able to cast it, they will already have something big enough to block it (Courser of Kruphix, Siege Rhino, etc). At least if we cast it on curve on the play, they'll either have to main phase a removal spell (to play around Valorous Stance, though they could just as easily be playing Bile Blight in the main), allowing us to play another threat the following turn, or they just play a blocker that we can just untap and remove.
I, personally, am wondering if we shouldn't be thinking of outright replacing Chained to the Rocks with Valorous Stance, or at least consider a 1/4 or 2/3 split. It gets rid of all the same things Chained does, with the added benefit of 1) not being Erased, 2) not being Glare of Heresy'd, and 3) protecting your own critters. It can also be cast even when you have those awkward Temple/Pain land hands.
I'm wondering if the Rabblemasters maybe should be main though.
I think they are actually better in the side than in the main, because they're so bad on the draw in a non-Elvish Mystic deck. By the time we're able to cast it, they will already have something big enough to block it (Courser of Kruphix, Siege Rhino, etc). At least if we cast it on curve on the play, they'll either have to main phase a removal spell (to play around Valorous Stance, though they could just as easily be playing Bile Blight in the main), allowing us to play another threat the following turn, or they just play a blocker that we can just untap and remove.
I, personally, am wondering if we shouldn't be thinking of outright replacing Chained to the Rocks with Valorous Stance, or at least consider a 1/4 or 2/3 split. It gets rid of all the same things Chained does, with the added benefit of 1) not being Erased, 2) not being Glare of Heresy'd, and 3) protecting your own critters. It can also be cast even when you have those awkward Temple/Pain land hands.
The difference in CC between W and 1W is huge, but, you might be right. Tonight I'm playing with 4 chains and 2 stances and I'll take it from there.
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UR Twin - RIP
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Stormbreath Dragon/Wingmate Roc
Spells (18-19)
0-4 Raise the Alarm
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Chained to the Rock
4 Lightning Stirke
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Hordeling Outburst
Land (24)
4 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
10 Mountain
6 other lands
I'm not saying there is no other build possible but this is the most played list ATM. The sideboard is really important, because more than half of the games i sideboard-in 8-9 cards.
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
tks mate, but i gave up on this deck..i just fail on making it work..had a bad, really bad experience with it..it's a great deck, it's having decent results out there...but, for god's sake...it doesn't work with me..
UR Twin - RIP
Here's sam's list (the best r/w deck imo) for reference:
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
1 Hushwing Gryff
Spells (18)
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Hordeling Outburst
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
10 Mountain
5 Plains
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Evolving Wilds
3 Hushwing Gryff
3 Glare of Heresy
3 Erase
2 Scouring Sands
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Banishing Light
The cards I'm most interested in are soulfire grand master, monastery mentor, outpost siege, and valorous stance.
I was thinking something like -2 ashcloud, -3 brimaz, +2 grandmaster, +3 monastery mentor might be right, but maybe brimaz is better than mentor because he's less vulnerable to removal? We also don't have much card draw, so maybe mentor is bad in here. I could also see cutting the maindeck gryff and moving it to the board as well, but I don't know what I'd cut from the board, probably the 3rd Chandra.
Speaking of Chandra, is outpost siege better than Chandra? This is the biggest question I find me asking myself. Chandra stops blockers, which is pretty huge, and she picks off tokens as well as teams up with lightning strike and stoke to kill big things. Outpost siege isn't anywhere near as vulnerable though, and it makes combat very tricky for opponents who rely on blockers since a hordling outburst threatens to become arc lightning after blocks. Chandra is alittle more flexible because you don't get stuck with one mode the whole game, and I can see you wanting one mode of the siege now and the other latter.
Can valorous stance take the slot of glare of heresy? It's more flexible than glare since it can come in against sultai, and it gives us more outs to things like doomwake giant and it kills courser. Maybe a 2/2/2 split between erase/glare/stance is the right call? Glare is very flexible against jeskai tokens and abzan midrange so I don't know what's better here.
What do you guys think?
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I think Chandra is better because of most of the reasons you listed. I also like to think of her as virtual "life-gain", because if she's being swung at, your opponents creatures aren't being swung at you. I think there is plenty of enchantment removal in the format to get rid of the outpost relatively quickly.
I'm really not sold on the Grand Master. I can get behind Monastery Mentor with all of the non-creature spells that are in this deck.
See I think it's the other way around. Soulfire is an auto-include for me. Sometimes I flood out, if we get to 7 mana with a grandmaster out then we can start casting and buying back hordling outburst. Not to mention the interaction with stoke (if you aren't familiar, turn 4 if you have soulfire and outburst you can activate it's ability and convoke stoke and you get the stoke back). It's a way to ensure that we don't run out of resources in the mid-late game.
The lifelink on instants and sorceries can be a big deal too, as it makes us harder to race.
Monastery mentor is really good, my main concern is that all of our non-creature spells aside from outburst and walkers are reactive spells, we might not be able/willing to trigger the mentor every turn. The fact that it's a 2/2 also kinda worries me. If we include him I'm wondering if we should include something like defiant strike or tormenting voice. It just seems like the build might have to really change to get a lot out of him.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
4x Stoke the Flames
4x Valorous Stance
4x Wild Slash
Creature (15)
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Monastery Mentor
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Soulfire Grand Master
2x Tormenting Voice
Land (23)
4x Battlefield Forge
7x Mountain
5x Plains
4x Temple of Triumph
3x Wind-Scarred Crag
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x End Hostilities
2x Erase
3x Glare of Heresy
3x Hushwing Gryff
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I don't think you want 4 grand masters, but you 100% want 4 seeker of the way, the games where you land a seeker turn 2 are 10000x easier than the ones you don't. I think seeker is better than grand master early because it can beat a caryatid, trade with a lion, and it lets you trade off a lightning strike for a courser if they block. Maybe take out 2 grand masters and 2 jets for 4 seeker, otherwise I think this could be very solid. Hordling outburst is a consideration as well but you're more burn heavy than the other builds.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
If you sweep a field for maybe 3-5 damage per target, you're going to gain 20-30 life, putting you turns ahead of your opponent while he searches for a new threat, that and it puts him down a chunk of life, bringing your opponent closer to burn range.
Here is my expensive list :S
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Soulfire Grand Master
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Wild Slash
4 Lightning Strike
4 Arcbond
2 Trumpet Blast
4 Deflecting Palm
4 Erase
4 Searing Blood
3 Scouring Sands
Because Arcbond says the creature does the damage taken, you can really choose how hard you wanna hit everyone. In midrange matches this kills everything unless you're blocking a creature with trample.
Im pretty much going to run the same deck with a few slight mods. -1 Soulfire, -1 Mentor, -2 Trumpet, -4 Wild. +4 Stoke, +4 Searing. My side will be tuned to my meta. 3 of each. Erase, Gryff, Banishing, Glare, Scouring.
He Murders Some Part Of His World
These Are The Pale Deaths
Which Men Miscall Their Lives
All This I Cannot Bear
To Witness Any Longer
Cannot The Kingdom Of Salvation
Take Me Home
Cliff Burton---To Live Is To Die
My MOTL Refs
My H/W List
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Flamewake Phoenix
1 Ashcloud Phoenix
Spells:
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
3 Hordeling Outburst
2 Citadel Siege
2 Chandra Pyromaster
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Temple of Triumph
1 Mana Confluence
1 Evolving Wilds
9 Mountains
5 Plains
3 Mastery of the Unseen
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Erase
2 Banishing Light
2 End Hostilities
3 Wild Slash
1 Valorous Stance
1 Glare of Heresy
FRF updates to this deck:
1. Flamewake Phoenix: I think the card is ridiculous especially with Stormbreath Dragon and Citadel Siege
2. Citadel Siege: On the play this card forces our opponent to have to deal with our creatures immediately, on the draw especially against midrange/control this card locks down their biggest threat from attacking and blocking and this even locks down Pearl Lake Ancient!
3. Mastery of the Unseen: This card turns control match up completely in our favor. As a matter of fact this card is so good in testing I'm thinking of switching this with hordeling outburst.
4. Wild Slash: In my meta there are still a lot of boss sligh.
What do you guys think?
Why not? The seeker is the source doing the damage so shouldn't the controller gain life equal to the damage it causes?
Along that line Lightning Volley might be interesting... let's all your dudes ping, the lifelinkers gaining you life from it triggers prowess and can be bought back though doubt games should go on long enough to buy it back.
Another idea to making the arcbound/life link combo bigger while shifting the focus to more red instant/sorcery for the control to take better advantage of soulfire is Spite of Mogis. And if you are going for more instant/sorcery for your control Satyr Firedancer adds tons of value.
What are people thinking of building in light of these awesome new cards?
Im trying out a build with
4x seeker of the way
2x soulfire grand master
3x monastery mentor
4x rabblemaster
3x stormbreath
and a number of
chained to the rocks, magma jets, strikes, collateral damage and stokes with arc bonds in the side....
Cutting Brimaz and hordeling outburst was a hard decision but I think with both the mentor and rabblemaster pumping out tokens we should be fine....
What do you guys think?
Or for extreme tech arcbond there creature... let's say there creature took a mere 2 dmg. With a single Dictate of the Twin Gods it would make that creature take 4, and then make it deal 8 to each other creature and player, then deflecting palm the 8 that was going to your face and double it to your opponent for 16. With the end result being turning a 2 dmg to your oppenents creature into 8 dmg to all creatures and 24 to your opponents face
I think they are actually better in the side than in the main, because they're so bad on the draw in a non-Elvish Mystic deck. By the time we're able to cast it, they will already have something big enough to block it (Courser of Kruphix, Siege Rhino, etc). At least if we cast it on curve on the play, they'll either have to main phase a removal spell (to play around Valorous Stance, though they could just as easily be playing Bile Blight in the main), allowing us to play another threat the following turn, or they just play a blocker that we can just untap and remove.
I, personally, am wondering if we shouldn't be thinking of outright replacing Chained to the Rocks with Valorous Stance, or at least consider a 1/4 or 2/3 split. It gets rid of all the same things Chained does, with the added benefit of 1) not being Erased, 2) not being Glare of Heresy'd, and 3) protecting your own critters. It can also be cast even when you have those awkward Temple/Pain land hands.
GW GW Aggro WG
UR UR Tutelage RU
BGU Sultai Pact UGB
EDH:
RWB Alesha BWR
WU Sygg UW
BG Sapling GB
BGU Sidisi UGB
UR Melek RU