So, I've seen the idea of Temur Control thrown around a lot with little success. I think the main reason for that it that Temur doesn't really lend it self to being a control deck, strictly speaking. That said, it's not really a fish deck either. The concept is much closer to fish or midrange than it is control though. Hence the name landshark. We're fish, but bigger and not in the water anymore. The goal of the deck is to balance between applying pressure and using control spells to disrupt the opponent's game. The deck becomes possible due to the number of proactive plays available that can be played at instant speed. This allows us often to just pass turn and play our turn during our opponent's end step. The difference between Fish, Control and this is in the timing of their strategy. A standard fish deck follows the pattern: play threats, disrupt while using the early threats already in play. Control is: Disrupt opponent until you can play a win-condition. This will instead: disrupt early, play threats in mid-game, then disrupt again while occasionally using a flash threat for a proactive play. It is somewhere between the 2.
About this deck / thread
Right now the work I've done has been almost all theoretical on this deck. I have not had much chance to play-test it yet. The concept seems sound, but since the deck is so different from the common archetypes, tuning it will not be an easy task. My ultimate goal is that this will be a competitive deck though, so I want to start by being clear that I am not at all concerned about budget. If it works, I'll get the card and add it. I'm used to playing eternal formats, so standard cards are inexpensive by my standards. The guide below offers a rough outline with a lot of room for variation. I tried to hit most the relevant pieces without going into cards that definitely won't see play (There's no reason to play cancel when you have dissolve or dissipate, etc). I'm sure there are still some gaps in card selection though. Odds are I didn't think of everything and that's why I'm here. Let's fill in the gaps, get some testing in and find the combination that works. What I want from here are serious deck builders who like the challenge of working in uncharted territory and don't mind taking some licks until we can get it right.
(non-flash(
1. Savage Knuckleblade
2. Stormbreath Dragon - He's just too good.
3. Polukranos, World Eater - He is too big to ignore and can really make or break a lot of games.
4. Spellheart Chimera - I don't know that I really like him, but there's definitely potential there, so I don't want to ignore him as a possibility.
Sideboard
1. Mistcutter Hydra - I consider him sideboard, but he's definitely good
2. Hornet Queen - She's not our main strategy, and doesn't feel like a sideboard card, but if you need something to defend from 8 Stormbreaths, she'll cover the first 5 on her own.
3. Arbor Colossus - Again, there's just too many power flyers to completely ignore him as an option.
(flash)
1. Surrak Dragonclaw - He's the big one
2. Boon Satyr - He's good and he has 2 modes. I think I like the Bestow mode a little better all things considered.
3. Horizon Chimera - Incremental lifegain is ok, but it's 3 power in the air at 4 mana, and that's not bad. Also has trample, but that's only rea;;u relevant if there's a boon Satyr on it.
4. Fleetfeather Cockatrice - Cockatrice with flash and monstrous. This looks like it's worth testing.
5. Pearl Lake Ancient He's another really solid finisher that needs to be at least mentioned.
0. Temur Charm - yeah, this goes here
1. Disdainful Stroke - This hits most things that can be a problem, bud doesn't work on the small stuff.
2. Dissolve - Basic counterspell. the scry makes it strictly better than cancel though, and can be really useful.
3. Dissipate - Could be relevant if anyone is playing reanimator, but doubtful right now.
4. Mindswipe - Counterspell and potential finisher in 1, yes please.
5. Nullify - This could be really good.
6. Swan Song - There's a lot of potential for this card.
Possible Sideboard
1. Negate - always good
2. Gainsay - too restrictive for maindeck, but if there's a lot of Jeskai in your meta it could be relevant.
3. Annul - amazingly potent when it's good, but it's dead too often.
0. Temur Charm - yeah, this goes here too
1. Anger of the Gods - The go-to sweeper
2. Magma Spray - I'm torn on this card because the scry is so good, but it doesn't hit a lot of really relevant threats.
3. Lightning Strike - This hits a lot of relevant early creatures.
4. Crater's Claws - "X" burn spell that gets better if I have a win-con down, okay.
5. Crippling Chill - It slows something down for a turn or 2 and nets a card. Since we should be applying pressure, this should be really relevant.
7. Ætherspouts - If Anger of the Gods won't work, this is the only backup we have.
Sideboard / Conditional
1. Plummet - It kills Stormbreath Dragon or Mantis Rider at instant speed. This can definitely be relevant.
2. Reclamation Sage - He's good enough for the main, but still somewhat conditional. I wouldn't main more than 1 or 2 and keep any more you feel you need in the side.
1. Kiora, the Crashing Wave - Having looked at the walkers available, she seems the most relevant to what we're doing.
2. Xenagos, the Reveler - I tried him a little, but he never seems to do enough. The creatures aren't big enough and we don't have enough out at a time to count on him as ramp. I could see scenarios that I like him, but I haven't had enough of those to keep him in mine.
3. Chandra, Pyromaster - While Chandro is one of my top 5 favorite planeswalkers ever. I don't see her as a great fit here. I don't want to have to play the card on my turn. This could be different if you're using Prognostic Sphinx and letting her fill out your land drops though.
4. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - Every time I look at wanting to play him I realize that what I want is Stormbreath Dragon, He's good, and will probably be the go-to-guy a year from now when Stormbreath rotates.
5. Nissa, Worldwaker - She's definitely a possibility. I'm not running her in my initial run because there are other things I want to test and I don't know for sure that she's a fit.
1. Jace's Ingenuity - Instant speed card draw is always nice.
2. Prophet of Kruphix - I think everyone knows this guy is good. The only things I don't like are that he dies to anger and isn't a threat in himself.
3. Courser of Kruphix - He's good, and I like him. The only things I don't like are that I already have a critical mass of 3-drops and he doesn't act as a good threat.
4. Mana Dorks - I avoided these in my list because I want the freedom to Anger without hurting myself. They can help your tempo, but they come at a cost, both in card-space and because they can be a liability for Anger.
5. Omenspeaker - a 1/3 body that scry's doesn't seem horrible.
Really like your concept here, comes across as a fresh take to me for some reason.
Critiques:
- I agree with Anger of the gods maindeck as our sweeper of choice. 4 copies please.
- You mention that Surrak and savage knuckleblade dodge the angers, so let's keep this as a rule for all of our creatures. Therefore, cut boon satyr, horizon chimera, fleetfeather cockatrice
- Now we need more creatures, so up the stormbreath dragons to 3 copies, Surrak to 3 copies.
- How about some mana acceleration that is not weenie based (since our Angers will kill them). I would try out 4 x font of fertility as a starting point, maybe 4 x courser of kruphix as well.
- I don't like crippling chill or the 1 dissolve here at all, cut both for 2 more lightning strikes
- How about Sarkhan for more beatings?
1 IIII
2 IIII
3 IIIII IIIII IIIII
4 II
5 IIIII IIII
6
7 II
Assuming X spells are 4 min. The curve is kind of high, so jace's ingenuity may become divinations or perhaps font of fortunes
An Ideal starting hand would be:
T1 forest, font
T2 mountain, pop font for an island
T3 mountain, attack with hasted knuckleblade >> 4 damage
T4 forest, attack with stormbreath and knuckleblade >> 12 total damage
T5 island, burn blockers with anger + strike, swing with team for final 4 damage.
I agree with some of your points, but there are a few things I'm not a huge fan of.
1. I don't like adding mana acceleration to the deck. Font would probably be the best form if we're going to use some, but it weakens your card economy and can lead to really weak draws later when you need lots of gas.
2. 2 Pearl Lake Ancients seems like too much. We really only want to ever see 1 and even then only sometimes.
3. I'm still not completely sold on Courser. While he is really good, I don't want to be tapping out at that point all the time and while he can defend well, he doesn't promote any optimal path for play in this deck which are T3 Knuckleblade, T3 Anger or T3 pass and Temur Charm/Stroke their play. I also don't like advertising what answers I'm holding when they're all so conditional.
4. I doubt there's any scenario I would cut Disdainful Stroke from the main.
I do agree that Boon Satyr, Horizon Chimera and Fleetfeather Cockatrice are all a little awkward. That said, I feel like the deck will want at least one of them as a proactive play with flash. In my list the reason I'm running all 3 is to test what I like best. I expect that Boon Satyr and one other will stay, but I'm not sure which one. With Boon Satyr I expect to play him for 5 more often than not, so I like having Horizon Chimera after Anger where I can then pump to take advantage of trample and I still have the freedom to continuously pass turn. At that point, Fleetfeather would become a 3rd Surrak. I just want to make sure I at least give Fleetfeather a fair test because flying deathtouch can be handy when none of our other reliable removal can hit toughness > 3 creatures. That is also the reason for Crippling Chill. I see there being a gap in the removal that I couldn't find anything better to fill in. I don't think I would ever count on it as a primary removal method, but it seems solid as a singleton.
I see the greatest strength to this playstyle as the ability to play draw/go without losing tempo. So, I'm reluctant to move in a direction that takes away from that too much. Anything played at sorcery speed needs to have a ton of value - On par with: Crater's Claws, Stormbreath Dragon, Anger of the Gods, Savage Knuckleblade.
Ok, I get what you are after now. I guess I just feel you need some form of mana fixing here since I would get screwed big time with your list on a truly random format like MTGO. In paper, shuffling tends to work more in our favour If you don't like courser, how about Sylvan caryatid instead as an early wall, mana fixer and accelerator. Just sucks that they die to our angers.
I would definitely take font as my first choice of mana fixing. If the goal is just to fix though, it seems like 2-3 of them with a 25 land list would probably be most consistent. No need to eat 8 card slots to mana fix when there's plenty of options in dual and tri lands.
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I do agree that Boon Satyr, Horizon Chimera and Fleetfeather Cockatrice are all a little awkward. That said, I feel like the deck will want at least one of them as a proactive play with flash. In my list the reason I'm running all 3 is to test what I like best.
I would suggest doing lots of testing with consistent numbers, then swap full sets. Throwing in a few copies of each isn't optimal, since variance will keep you from generating experience with the cards as individual assets and within their place in the deck. This issue is further exacerbated by the flexibility of your control cards, giving you many, many play lines to sort through for each game (not ideal for card testing).
Also, keep an eye on what Kibler is up to. He's been working on an aggro build that definitely plays a bit of a tempo game.. and sideboards into a sweet U/G Madness style deck in some matches. Here's an early article on the subject: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpla14/decktechtemur
Other guys are playing it to, and there are some matches from the Oakland SCG open on youtube. I believe Anthony Lowry was piloting the deck there. I love this style deck, so I'll definitely be following this thread.
I'm a fan of the fonts for fixing - really great if you don't want to completely tap out often.
Since fetchlands, fonts, and counters/burn fill up your graveyard, why not run 1-2 of the delve pump spell? You could churn out 10+ damage in a turn with mana up for counter magic, possibly even more or lethal with +X/+0 cards...
So, I realized I haven't been posting here much. I haven't had a lot of time to play and Last FNM I just ended up playing Abzan because, no matter how much I've been tuning this since I initially started working on it. I just can't get it to beat my Abzan Monsters build. For FNM the only thing I lost to the whole night was a mirror, and even then I won Game 1 difinitively, but since he had more experience on building the board, and had a better board for the mirror, I couldn't pull out a win post-board. That said, I know my Abzan build I'm testing against is at the top of the spectrum of what I can play against. It didn't even miss a beat in any of the other matchups.
All that said, I'm still not really trying to push Abzan as the be-all end-all and I still think this has potential. In fact, I think I might have just found what I've been missing in that matchup: Burn Away. The problem I've been having is that Abzan has too many threats that don't die to much burn. Burn Away looks like it'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone though in that it can kill Rhino (in 1 card) and it turns off their Whips. I'm also thinking I'm going to go down to 2 Anger in the main and keep the other 2 in the board so that I can add some mana dorks for faster tempo.
I'll get an updated list on here once I get to do some more testing. I still haven't quit. It took months for me to tune Smallpox in SOM/INN block, but it was worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if this took a little longer than that, but again I think it'll be worth it when I finish.
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Burn Away is too expensive I think. Costing more than the Rhino and having no additional effect is a bad place to be I think. At least for a deck that is so concerned with tempo. It might be easier to fight Rhino with 4 Dissolve and 4 Disdainful stroke somewhere in the 75. I definitely think that stroke deserves to be a 4 of somewhere in the 75.
I think Mindswipe is a really good card for this deck, but it needs to be combined with more ways to get ahead early. I really like the idea of a counter heavy version of this deck playing 4x Dissolve, 4x Mindswipe, 4x Dig through Time and the set of Disdainful strokes somewhere in there. I think reaching a point where you have a threat on the ground and mindswipe/surrak/ boon satyr up could just be overwhelming.
I'm a bit lazy to drum up a mana base but I like the way that plays in my head. Heir of the Wilds adds another early threat that stays relevant for a long time. At it's worst Heir plays defense superbly so that we can play catch up with counters/flash creatures.
Maybe it's correct to run sweepers main, but I like the flash dudes/low drop plan a bit more to supplement the counters. Anger of the Gods has a huge amount of applications across matchups though so the list could be missing out. Not sure really.
I was even toying around with the idea of Monestary Swiftspear in the list. Not sure if the list supports it well enough though. More temur charms could be pretty nasty with it. I have to say I love the design you have set up for this deck. Landshark is a great name and the evolution from the fish line of play makes sense too.
This deck seems like it would have an awesome sideboard. Revelry really makes me want swiftspear main.
4 Disdainful Stroke
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Negate
4 Anger of the Gods
I've been playing a version of this deck for the past month or so. It started rough, but recently it has gotten to the point where I feel very comfortable with it. Here's my decklist:
The goal of this deck is to find an opportunity to get a creature on the ground (usually with flash), and hold open counterspells. Savage Knuckleblade is a great followup play to countering an opponent's spell. Boon Satyr is one of the most important cards in the deck, since it can represent Temur Charm. A couple of notes on the removal:
- Magma Sppray is here because having one mana removal is very important. Being able to exile Hornet Queen and Bloodsoaked Champion in their respective decks is very useful.
- Void Snare is a really good card here. Many games my opponent has played a Jeskai Ascendancy (or Whip of Erebos or some other good permanent) and i let it resolve. I then flash out Boon Satyr and on my turn bounce the card with Temur Charm/Stubborn Denial open.
- I like a split of 2x Stubborn Denial, 1x Disdainful Stroke. While DS does more of what we want, it can occassionally be a dead card. SD is always live, and if you have the necessary creature, can help close out games.
- Crater's Claw is a very good card. I would only run it as a 2-of, but it is nice that some games you can just crater's claw your opponent for 8 or so.
- I usually consider Heir of the Wilds half of a kill spell. Usually my oponent will have to trade their creature for it, in which case it was a doomblade that can do some damage, or they use a removal spell on it, in which case it still got some value. He also does quite a but of damge early game against abzan. I don't like him vs Sultai, just because Sidisi, Whip, and Hornent Queen all eat into the value he can provide.
- I would recommend against running Dissolve. Since the goal should be to have Boon Satyr available with counterspells, that means we are primarily a Green deck, with blue second and red third. Having double blue and double green, while not impossible is very difficult. In addition, besides Evolving Wilds, there are no good ways of finding blue sources.
@ Trivmvirate: I tried Fated Intervention at one point but found it to be relatively lackluster. Putting two 3/3's on the field sounds strong, but the 3/3's don't matchup well against opposing threats. In addition, since they don't have 4 power, they don't enable any ferocious shenanigans.
I have a tournament report from this weekend's FNM, Saturday Night Magic, and Sunday Magic tournament. At FNM I went 3-1, Saturday I went 2-1, and Sunday I went 5-1. One adjustment I made to the deck was taking out one Steam Augury for one Dissolve. As a one-of I think that I can get hands where the mana is supported enough, and if not, I'm only stuck with one card at most.
Landshark
Concept / Design
So, I've seen the idea of Temur Control thrown around a lot with little success. I think the main reason for that it that Temur doesn't really lend it self to being a control deck, strictly speaking. That said, it's not really a fish deck either. The concept is much closer to fish or midrange than it is control though. Hence the name landshark. We're fish, but bigger and not in the water anymore. The goal of the deck is to balance between applying pressure and using control spells to disrupt the opponent's game. The deck becomes possible due to the number of proactive plays available that can be played at instant speed. This allows us often to just pass turn and play our turn during our opponent's end step. The difference between Fish, Control and this is in the timing of their strategy. A standard fish deck follows the pattern: play threats, disrupt while using the early threats already in play. Control is: Disrupt opponent until you can play a win-condition. This will instead: disrupt early, play threats in mid-game, then disrupt again while occasionally using a flash threat for a proactive play. It is somewhere between the 2.
About this deck / thread
Right now the work I've done has been almost all theoretical on this deck. I have not had much chance to play-test it yet. The concept seems sound, but since the deck is so different from the common archetypes, tuning it will not be an easy task. My ultimate goal is that this will be a competitive deck though, so I want to start by being clear that I am not at all concerned about budget. If it works, I'll get the card and add it. I'm used to playing eternal formats, so standard cards are inexpensive by my standards. The guide below offers a rough outline with a lot of room for variation. I tried to hit most the relevant pieces without going into cards that definitely won't see play (There's no reason to play cancel when you have dissolve or dissipate, etc). I'm sure there are still some gaps in card selection though. Odds are I didn't think of everything and that's why I'm here. Let's fill in the gaps, get some testing in and find the combination that works. What I want from here are serious deck builders who like the challenge of working in uncharted territory and don't mind taking some licks until we can get it right.
Card Selection
Core
1. Surrak Dragonclaw - He's our primary flash finisher
2. Savage Knuckleblade - He's an awesome threat that starts early enough and can dodge Anger of the Gods
3. Temur Charm - It's Mana Leak or a conditional removal spell based on what you need
4. Anger of the Gods - the go-to sweeper for this deck.
(non-flash(
1. Savage Knuckleblade
2. Stormbreath Dragon - He's just too good.
3. Polukranos, World Eater - He is too big to ignore and can really make or break a lot of games.
4. Spellheart Chimera - I don't know that I really like him, but there's definitely potential there, so I don't want to ignore him as a possibility.
Sideboard
1. Mistcutter Hydra - I consider him sideboard, but he's definitely good
2. Hornet Queen - She's not our main strategy, and doesn't feel like a sideboard card, but if you need something to defend from 8 Stormbreaths, she'll cover the first 5 on her own.
3. Arbor Colossus - Again, there's just too many power flyers to completely ignore him as an option.
(flash)
1. Surrak Dragonclaw - He's the big one
2. Boon Satyr - He's good and he has 2 modes. I think I like the Bestow mode a little better all things considered.
3. Horizon Chimera - Incremental lifegain is ok, but it's 3 power in the air at 4 mana, and that's not bad. Also has trample, but that's only rea;;u relevant if there's a boon Satyr on it.
4. Fleetfeather Cockatrice - Cockatrice with flash and monstrous. This looks like it's worth testing.
5. Pearl Lake Ancient He's another really solid finisher that needs to be at least mentioned.
0. Temur Charm - yeah, this goes here
1. Disdainful Stroke - This hits most things that can be a problem, bud doesn't work on the small stuff.
2. Dissolve - Basic counterspell. the scry makes it strictly better than cancel though, and can be really useful.
3. Dissipate - Could be relevant if anyone is playing reanimator, but doubtful right now.
4. Mindswipe - Counterspell and potential finisher in 1, yes please.
5. Nullify - This could be really good.
6. Swan Song - There's a lot of potential for this card.
Possible Sideboard
1. Negate - always good
2. Gainsay - too restrictive for maindeck, but if there's a lot of Jeskai in your meta it could be relevant.
3. Annul - amazingly potent when it's good, but it's dead too often.
0. Temur Charm - yeah, this goes here too
1. Anger of the Gods - The go-to sweeper
2. Magma Spray - I'm torn on this card because the scry is so good, but it doesn't hit a lot of really relevant threats.
3. Lightning Strike - This hits a lot of relevant early creatures.
4. Crater's Claws - "X" burn spell that gets better if I have a win-con down, okay.
5. Crippling Chill - It slows something down for a turn or 2 and nets a card. Since we should be applying pressure, this should be really relevant.
7. Ætherspouts - If Anger of the Gods won't work, this is the only backup we have.
Sideboard / Conditional
1. Plummet - It kills Stormbreath Dragon or Mantis Rider at instant speed. This can definitely be relevant.
2. Reclamation Sage - He's good enough for the main, but still somewhat conditional. I wouldn't main more than 1 or 2 and keep any more you feel you need in the side.
1. Kiora, the Crashing Wave - Having looked at the walkers available, she seems the most relevant to what we're doing.
2. Xenagos, the Reveler - I tried him a little, but he never seems to do enough. The creatures aren't big enough and we don't have enough out at a time to count on him as ramp. I could see scenarios that I like him, but I haven't had enough of those to keep him in mine.
3. Chandra, Pyromaster - While Chandro is one of my top 5 favorite planeswalkers ever. I don't see her as a great fit here. I don't want to have to play the card on my turn. This could be different if you're using Prognostic Sphinx and letting her fill out your land drops though.
4. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker - Every time I look at wanting to play him I realize that what I want is Stormbreath Dragon, He's good, and will probably be the go-to-guy a year from now when Stormbreath rotates.
5. Nissa, Worldwaker - She's definitely a possibility. I'm not running her in my initial run because there are other things I want to test and I don't know for sure that she's a fit.
1. Jace's Ingenuity - Instant speed card draw is always nice.
2. Prophet of Kruphix - I think everyone knows this guy is good. The only things I don't like are that he dies to anger and isn't a threat in himself.
3. Courser of Kruphix - He's good, and I like him. The only things I don't like are that I already have a critical mass of 3-drops and he doesn't act as a good threat.
4. Mana Dorks - I avoided these in my list because I want the freedom to Anger without hurting myself. They can help your tempo, but they come at a cost, both in card-space and because they can be a liability for Anger.
5. Omenspeaker - a 1/3 body that scry's doesn't seem horrible.
Sample Decklist
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Temple of Abandon
3 Shivan Reef
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Swiftwater Cliffs
2 Thornwood Falls
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Mountain
Creatures (14)
4 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Boon Satyr
2 Horizon Chimera
1 Fleetfeather Cockatrice
2 Surrak Dragonclaw
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Pearl Lake Ancient
1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Sorcery (4)
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Crater's Claws
Instant (16)
3 Disdainful Stroke
4 Temur Charm
1 Dissolve
1 Mindswipe
2 Magma Jet
2 Lightning Strike
1 Crippling Chill
2 Jace's Ingenuity
1 Lightning Strike
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Mindswipe
1 Negate
1 Crater's Claws
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Ætherspouts
1 Arbor Colossus
1 Hornet Queen
2 Mistcutter Hydra
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Really like your concept here, comes across as a fresh take to me for some reason.
Critiques:
- I agree with Anger of the gods maindeck as our sweeper of choice. 4 copies please.
- You mention that Surrak and savage knuckleblade dodge the angers, so let's keep this as a rule for all of our creatures. Therefore, cut boon satyr, horizon chimera, fleetfeather cockatrice
- Now we need more creatures, so up the stormbreath dragons to 3 copies, Surrak to 3 copies.
- How about some mana acceleration that is not weenie based (since our Angers will kill them). I would try out 4 x font of fertility as a starting point, maybe 4 x courser of kruphix as well.
- I don't like crippling chill or the 1 dissolve here at all, cut both for 2 more lightning strikes
- How about Sarkhan for more beatings?
so, my changes would make deck as the following:
4 savage knuckleblade
3 stormbreath dragon
3 surrak dragonclaw
2 Pearl lake ancient
4 courser of kruphix
20 other spells
4 font of fertility
4 Lightning strike
4 Anger of the gods
3 Temur charm
1 crater's claws
2 jace's ingenuity
1 Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker
1 Mindswipe
4 Evolving Wilds
4 wooded foothills
2 Frontier Bivouac
2 Mana confluence
4 forest
2 yavimaya coast
4 mountain
2 Island
CmC of deck:
1 IIII
2 IIII
3 IIIII IIIII IIIII
4 II
5 IIIII IIII
6
7 II
Assuming X spells are 4 min. The curve is kind of high, so jace's ingenuity may become divinations or perhaps font of fortunes
An Ideal starting hand would be:
T1 forest, font
T2 mountain, pop font for an island
T3 mountain, attack with hasted knuckleblade >> 4 damage
T4 forest, attack with stormbreath and knuckleblade >> 12 total damage
T5 island, burn blockers with anger + strike, swing with team for final 4 damage.
1. I don't like adding mana acceleration to the deck. Font would probably be the best form if we're going to use some, but it weakens your card economy and can lead to really weak draws later when you need lots of gas.
2. 2 Pearl Lake Ancients seems like too much. We really only want to ever see 1 and even then only sometimes.
3. I'm still not completely sold on Courser. While he is really good, I don't want to be tapping out at that point all the time and while he can defend well, he doesn't promote any optimal path for play in this deck which are T3 Knuckleblade, T3 Anger or T3 pass and Temur Charm/Stroke their play. I also don't like advertising what answers I'm holding when they're all so conditional.
4. I doubt there's any scenario I would cut Disdainful Stroke from the main.
I do agree that Boon Satyr, Horizon Chimera and Fleetfeather Cockatrice are all a little awkward. That said, I feel like the deck will want at least one of them as a proactive play with flash. In my list the reason I'm running all 3 is to test what I like best. I expect that Boon Satyr and one other will stay, but I'm not sure which one. With Boon Satyr I expect to play him for 5 more often than not, so I like having Horizon Chimera after Anger where I can then pump to take advantage of trample and I still have the freedom to continuously pass turn. At that point, Fleetfeather would become a 3rd Surrak. I just want to make sure I at least give Fleetfeather a fair test because flying deathtouch can be handy when none of our other reliable removal can hit toughness > 3 creatures. That is also the reason for Crippling Chill. I see there being a gap in the removal that I couldn't find anything better to fill in. I don't think I would ever count on it as a primary removal method, but it seems solid as a singleton.
I see the greatest strength to this playstyle as the ability to play draw/go without losing tempo. So, I'm reluctant to move in a direction that takes away from that too much. Anything played at sorcery speed needs to have a ton of value - On par with: Crater's Claws, Stormbreath Dragon, Anger of the Gods, Savage Knuckleblade.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I would suggest doing lots of testing with consistent numbers, then swap full sets. Throwing in a few copies of each isn't optimal, since variance will keep you from generating experience with the cards as individual assets and within their place in the deck. This issue is further exacerbated by the flexibility of your control cards, giving you many, many play lines to sort through for each game (not ideal for card testing).
Also, keep an eye on what Kibler is up to. He's been working on an aggro build that definitely plays a bit of a tempo game.. and sideboards into a sweet U/G Madness style deck in some matches. Here's an early article on the subject:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpla14/decktechtemur
Other guys are playing it to, and there are some matches from the Oakland SCG open on youtube. I believe Anthony Lowry was piloting the deck there. I love this style deck, so I'll definitely be following this thread.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29742_Your-Guide-To-Monsters.html
Since fetchlands, fonts, and counters/burn fill up your graveyard, why not run 1-2 of the delve pump spell? You could churn out 10+ damage in a turn with mana up for counter magic, possibly even more or lethal with +X/+0 cards...
If it works, cite me
Else, forget my name
All that said, I'm still not really trying to push Abzan as the be-all end-all and I still think this has potential. In fact, I think I might have just found what I've been missing in that matchup: Burn Away. The problem I've been having is that Abzan has too many threats that don't die to much burn. Burn Away looks like it'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone though in that it can kill Rhino (in 1 card) and it turns off their Whips. I'm also thinking I'm going to go down to 2 Anger in the main and keep the other 2 in the board so that I can add some mana dorks for faster tempo.
I'll get an updated list on here once I get to do some more testing. I still haven't quit. It took months for me to tune Smallpox in SOM/INN block, but it was worth it. I wouldn't be surprised if this took a little longer than that, but again I think it'll be worth it when I finish.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I think Mindswipe is a really good card for this deck, but it needs to be combined with more ways to get ahead early. I really like the idea of a counter heavy version of this deck playing 4x Dissolve, 4x Mindswipe, 4x Dig through Time and the set of Disdainful strokes somewhere in there. I think reaching a point where you have a threat on the ground and mindswipe/surrak/ boon satyr up could just be overwhelming.
what about this?
4 Savage Knuckleblade
4 Boon Satyr
3 Surrak Dragonclaw
4 Mindswipe
4 Magma jet
3 Lightning Strike
4 Dig through Time
2 Temur Charm
I'm a bit lazy to drum up a mana base but I like the way that plays in my head. Heir of the Wilds adds another early threat that stays relevant for a long time. At it's worst Heir plays defense superbly so that we can play catch up with counters/flash creatures.
Maybe it's correct to run sweepers main, but I like the flash dudes/low drop plan a bit more to supplement the counters. Anger of the Gods has a huge amount of applications across matchups though so the list could be missing out. Not sure really.
I was even toying around with the idea of Monestary Swiftspear in the list. Not sure if the list supports it well enough though. More temur charms could be pretty nasty with it. I have to say I love the design you have set up for this deck. Landshark is a great name and the evolution from the fish line of play makes sense too.
This deck seems like it would have an awesome sideboard. Revelry really makes me want swiftspear main.
4 Disdainful Stroke
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Negate
4 Anger of the Gods
4x Heir of the Wilds
4x Boon Satyr
3x Savage Knuckleblade
3x Horizon Chimera
Non-creature Spells (23)
3x Void Snare
2x Magma Spray
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Disdainful Stroke
3x Lightning Strike
4x Temur Charm
2x Steam Augury
4x Treasure Cruise
2x Crater's Claw
4x Fronteir Bivoauc
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Evolving Wilds
2x Island
2x Forest
2x Mountain
3x Temple of Mystery
1x Temple of Epiphany
1x Temple of Abandon
1x Shivan Reef
1x Yavimaya Coast
3x Firedrinker Satyr
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Disdainful Stroke
1x Stubborn Denial
1x Surrak Dragonclaw
2x Unravel the Aether
1x Savage Knuckleblade
The goal of this deck is to find an opportunity to get a creature on the ground (usually with flash), and hold open counterspells. Savage Knuckleblade is a great followup play to countering an opponent's spell. Boon Satyr is one of the most important cards in the deck, since it can represent Temur Charm. A couple of notes on the removal:
- Magma Sppray is here because having one mana removal is very important. Being able to exile Hornet Queen and Bloodsoaked Champion in their respective decks is very useful.
- Void Snare is a really good card here. Many games my opponent has played a Jeskai Ascendancy (or Whip of Erebos or some other good permanent) and i let it resolve. I then flash out Boon Satyr and on my turn bounce the card with Temur Charm/Stubborn Denial open.
- I like a split of 2x Stubborn Denial, 1x Disdainful Stroke. While DS does more of what we want, it can occassionally be a dead card. SD is always live, and if you have the necessary creature, can help close out games.
- Crater's Claw is a very good card. I would only run it as a 2-of, but it is nice that some games you can just crater's claw your opponent for 8 or so.
- I usually consider Heir of the Wilds half of a kill spell. Usually my oponent will have to trade their creature for it, in which case it was a doomblade that can do some damage, or they use a removal spell on it, in which case it still got some value. He also does quite a but of damge early game against abzan. I don't like him vs Sultai, just because Sidisi, Whip, and Hornent Queen all eat into the value he can provide.
- I would recommend against running Dissolve. Since the goal should be to have Boon Satyr available with counterspells, that means we are primarily a Green deck, with blue second and red third. Having double blue and double green, while not impossible is very difficult. In addition, besides Evolving Wilds, there are no good ways of finding blue sources.
I have a tournament report from this weekend's FNM, Saturday Night Magic, and Sunday Magic tournament. At FNM I went 3-1, Saturday I went 2-1, and Sunday I went 5-1. One adjustment I made to the deck was taking out one Steam Augury for one Dissolve. As a one-of I think that I can get hands where the mana is supported enough, and if not, I'm only stuck with one card at most.
Friday
Round 1: Mono-blue Devotion (2-0)
Sided out: 1x Steam Augury, 1x Dissolve
Sided in: 1x Savage Knuckleblade, 1x Surrak Dragonclaw
Round 2: UW Control (2-0)
Sided out: 2x Magma Spray, 3x Void Snare, 4x Heir of the Wilds
Sided in: 1x Savage Knuckleblade, 1x Surrak Dragonclaw, 1x Disdainful Stroke, 1x Subborn Denial, 3x Firedrinker Satyr, 2x Unravel the Aether
Round 3: Jeskai Midrange (2-1)
Sided out: 2x Magma Spray, 3x Void Snare
Sided in: 1x Savage Knuckleblade, 1x Surrak Dragonclaw, 2x Disdainful Stroke, 1x Subborn Denial
Round 4: Mono-Green Devotion (0-2)
Sided out: 1x Steam Augury, 2x Magma Spray, 1x Treasure Cruise
Sided in: 1x Savage Knuckleblade, 1x Surrak Dragonclaw, 2x Disdainful Stroke
Saturday
Round 1: Mardu Midrange (2-1)
Sided out: 1x Steam Augury, 3x Void Snare, 2x Crater's Claw
Sided in: 2x Magma Spray, 3x Anger of the Gods, 1x Stubborn Denial
Round 2: Abzan Midrange (2-0)
Sided out: 2x Magma Spray, 3x Void Snare
Sided in: 2x Disdainful Stroke, 1x Stubborn Denial, 1x Savage Knuckeblade, 1x Surrak Dragonclaw
Round 3: Jeskai Midrange (0-2)
Sided out: 2x Magma Spray, 3x Void Snare
Sided in: 1x Savage Knuckleblade, 1x Surrak Dragonclaw, 2x Disdainful Stroke, 1x Stubborn Denial
Sunday
Round 1: Mardu Aggro (1-2)
Sided out: 1x Disdiainful Stroke, 3x Void Snare, 2x Crater's Claw, 1x Steam Augury
Sided in: 1x Stubborn Denial, 3x Anger of the Gods, 2x Magma Spray, 1x Savage Knuckleblade
Round 2: UW Heroic (2-1)
Sided out: 1x Disdainful Stroke, 2x Crater's Claw, 1x Steam Augury
Sided in: 2x Magma Spray, 1x Savage Knucklebade, 1x Stubborn Denial
Round 3: UR Control (2-0)
Sided out: 2x Magma Spray, 3x Void Snare, 4x Heir of the Wilds
Sided in: 1x Surrak Dragonclaw, 1x Savage Knucklebade, 1x Stubborn Denial, 3x Firedrinker Satyr, 2x Unravel the Aether, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Round 4: Four-Color Control(WBUR) (2-0)
Sided out: 2x Magma Spray, 3x Void Snare, 4x Heir of the Wilds
Sided in: 2x Unravel the Aether, 3x Firedrinker Satyr, 1x Stubborn Denial, 1x Savage Knucleblade, 1x Surrak Dragonclaw, 1x Disdainful Stroke
Round 5: Bant Heroic (2-0)
Sided out: 1x Disdainful Stroke, 2x Crater's Claw, 1x Steam Augury
Sided in: 2x Magma Spray, 1x Savage Knucklebade, 1x Stubborn Denial
Top 8, Round 1: Temur Midrange (2-0)
Sided out: 1x Steam Augury, 1x Treasure Cruise
Sided in: 1x Surrak Dragonclaw, 1x Savage Knucklebade
Top 4 split.