Kruphix, God of Horizons. No maximum hand size for a draw deck = no discard. Also, Horizon Chimera and [card]Chasm Skulker[/cardare good synergy for draw decks.
Ie had some fun with Kruphix, and was thinking about master the way as an alternate wincon lol
Pretty sweet i say! Still is a different list than mine, but I havntt had a chance to test it yet for fnm
Maybe i'll E-magic it tonight. I really believe in the constellation version with dictates, eidolons and impersonators. Hasnt stopped me from playing with this list tho, love it still
Let's talk about that if you want, because that is what my deck sort of is- except I live winmor, and 4 wealths is a must. I pay for them with 8 dictate of karametras, and fuel it with 8 eidolon of blossoms. To help cantrip into Doomwake/pieces, I use brain maggot and hypnotic siren. When I say 8 of these pieces, I am talking about Clever Impersonator, an allstar in Villainous Wealth-Constellation-Devotion-Combo I'll repost the list I'm playing with if you want to bounce some ideas around
My first list here is the Sultai Constellation Prophet list. It is designed to take a beating, then combo out big- as are all my wealth lists so far.. lol. Hypnotic Siren is a great card for constellation, and it is super relevant later on too, when you can steal their best creature. Maggot is great because it cantrips with eidolon, and disrupts. Might squeeze the 4th in there. Prophet of Kruphix is so good in this deck! I try to play Prophet, then Dictate on their turn, then wealth on mine. Impersonator is the best, because it can copy eidolon to draw a ton (drawinging into and playing more eidolons/impersonators), but it also can quickly copy dictate, making you a TON of mana. Only do this if the math comes out in your favor for a HUGE wealth. Jace's Ingenuity instead of Treasure Cruise of Dig because it is an instant I can play after untapping with prophet. Liliana can find you what you need, when you need it. With eidolon and prophet in play it can get pretty nuts. Doomwake can come out for Courser to lower the curve.
Then there is this Yisan powered brew, that is fun with prophet. The constellation aspect is still in there, but not nearly as strong. Looks for Sagu Mauler to seal the deal if all else fails.
To Kaevyn, I like that Impersonator can do all of the things but i like the smaller plays with it too, asides copying their best creature. Copying a bestowed Boon Satyr is a clever play I think, or just copying boon satyr to cantrip ascendancy/eidlon
It's true, it maybe starts a little slower, but still has Follower to ramp. I just felt that dictate of karametra made lands worth untaping more than Caryatid being able to hit any color. I go all in, going for 2-3 dictates in play, because with that much mana available cantripping with eidolons can turn into draw-play, draw-play, etc. As Ive said before, I play this deck like Rocky, taking all the hits I need to open up a huge Wealth. Caryatid might be better though, to land Acendancy.
If you plan on taking hits building towards pay off, why not just kill them outright with craters claws? Wealth isn't guaranteed and doesn't win on the spot.
Also, taking hits is putting it lightly. You have no way to defend yourself and you're rrrreal slow out of the gate and easy to disrupt. Dangerous stuff. I mean, negate is gg.
The list I play the most is the Hypnotic Siren/Clever Impersonator/Villainous Wealth combo of steal n copy. I take hits, but always stabilize through stealing their best, or copying it, or wealthing. One guy took me down to two, then I wealthed, landing two rabblemasters, stoke the flames and banishing light. Followed up by copying an elspeth. My sb is transformational into green devo splash wealth, including coursers and polukranos, as well as arbor colossi. I dont do much control, but like brain maggot in that limited role. Crater's Claws is nice and all, but I want to make a deck around Wealth lol. I have a list that uses some claws in it, but as for the negate argument, or wealth not being guaranteed, neither is claws. Also, prophet makes up for lost speed, letting you cast everything on their turn except wealth. Im not saying it is the master list of the world lol, just sharing the concepts Ive discovered, in an effort to tune it into something better. Thanks for the feedbacks
Another strategy I've explored a little is all-in in the form of playing wealth as much and as fast as you can and playing Mnemonic Wall to return Wealth back to hand to play again. It can return jace's ingenuity too, and clever impersonator can copy it to return things again. Sounds silly, but just silly enough for me to want to try
Hi all. I'm ready to join you. So far I've been playing the Temur Ascendancy combo without Villainous Wealth, and it's pretty fun to play. Today I was at 2 life, and took a Mardu player from 34 to 0 in one surprise turn. On the downside when it doesn't come together, it's a weaker green devotion list. But I want to try Wealth. The local meta is diverse but has a lot of UB control besides all the other main decks. I suppose I'd try Kaevyn's list.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Man. I've almost morphed into a pure UG devotion deck, and kept only 1 VW in the deck. Trying to figure out how to get it back to at least 2, maybe 3. There is a TON of design room (or rope to hang yourself with) here. For some reason I've developed tunnel vision and have only been testing against Junk Midrangey kind of builds.
Any Opinions as to which kind of builds work best against U/W Heroic and/or low-cuve red decks?
Prophet of Kruphix is good. I didn't prioritize getting him into pay before, and he felt like a Win-More card. Now that I've seen the glory of instant Speed Genesis Hydra's, I understand why everybody likes him so much. I'm thinking the optimal number is probably 2, instead of 3, though. Could definitely be wrong about that.
Yisan is actually pretty decent. Mostly, he just presents something opponent needs to deal with on turn 2 or turn 3. But he does "get there" sometimes all by him self. He is harder to play than I thought. You have to re-evaluate every turn whether you should be saving mana to use him, or develop board more explicitly. Some times the right decision is really to just let him sit there and be a 2/3 dude ..... I always wanted to push on him as hard as I could at first, so once I realized this he got better. Basically, think of the first activation as an instant speed Rampant Growth that costs 2G, and evaluate it from that perspective as opposed to thinking about how cool it's going to be when you get him up to 5.
I think at least one Hornet Queen belongs in this deck.
My opinions on the cards listed:
Crater's Claws is generally good. It doesn't serve the Wealth plan, but killing off a threat is a worthy role, and it can also hit the opponent.
Hour of Need is opposite of our strategy. We're playing mana guys to get a decent sized wealth, and exiling them for flyers neuters that. We're not holding mana open to respond to removal either.
Clever Impersonator is in my sideboard, but I never know when to bring it in, or what to take out.
Prophet is good only when you have extra cards to play out. Otherwise it's a 2/3 for 5. So she totally could fit the deck but it's a question of what to cut.
Yisan is an excellent extra cards guy when he survives, but again it is a question of how does it fit.
Hornet Queen is possibly good. If you think of it as #5 and #6 of really devastating big spell, it could make sense, but you don't want too many expensive cards lest you get stuck with a hand full of unplayables.
The trouble is, all these cards are good but you need midrange threats/defense as well. This doesn't work:
Ive gone even more all in with 3-4 Worst Fears. In my deck with 7-8 dictate of karametra, worst fears let's me not worry about them having extra mana on a couple turns, maybe enough to mess up their flow. Keep in mind I am also untapping with Prophet (I think 3 is the right number AustinTiger) and playing stuff on their turn as I control their turn.
Yeah, but Worst Fears costs eight and you have to not be dead!
My combo version puts dictate in on turn 3-4, and then 8 mana happens the next turn. I often copy dictate with impersonator too, mana isnt often the issue lol
No it copies things as printed. You effectively get a second Hypnotic Siren card coming into play. And since you didnt pay a bestow cost to cast it, it comes in as a creature even if the one you copied from is presently an aura. If you copy a Genesis hydra, you get a 0/0. About the only exception is copying an impersonator. Instead you get whatever the first impersonator copied.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Ie had some fun with Kruphix, and was thinking about master the way as an alternate wincon lol
Maybe i'll E-magic it tonight. I really believe in the constellation version with dictates, eidolons and impersonators. Hasnt stopped me from playing with this list tho, love it still
And that Italian deck is basically mine without the Eidolons! Woot! Woot! Been waiting for someone to do that!
Switching back to the build in the first post. That's about as good as it gets. Just so much synergy.
My first list here is the Sultai Constellation Prophet list. It is designed to take a beating, then combo out big- as are all my wealth lists so far.. lol. Hypnotic Siren is a great card for constellation, and it is super relevant later on too, when you can steal their best creature. Maggot is great because it cantrips with eidolon, and disrupts. Might squeeze the 4th in there. Prophet of Kruphix is so good in this deck! I try to play Prophet, then Dictate on their turn, then wealth on mine. Impersonator is the best, because it can copy eidolon to draw a ton (drawinging into and playing more eidolons/impersonators), but it also can quickly copy dictate, making you a TON of mana. Only do this if the math comes out in your favor for a HUGE wealth. Jace's Ingenuity instead of Treasure Cruise of Dig because it is an instant I can play after untapping with prophet. Liliana can find you what you need, when you need it. With eidolon and prophet in play it can get pretty nuts. Doomwake can come out for Courser to lower the curve.
4 Hypnotic Siren
3 Brain Maggot
4 Kiora's Follower
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Clever Impersonator
2 Doomwake Giant
3 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Villainous Wealth
4 Dictate of Karametra
2 Jace's Ingenuity
2 Liliana Vess
Lands
3 Mana Confluence
2 Yavimaya Coast
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Mystery
2 Forest
4 Opulent Palace
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Llanowar Wastes
Then there is this Yisan powered brew, that is fun with prophet. The constellation aspect is still in there, but not nearly as strong. Looks for Sagu Mauler to seal the deal if all else fails.
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Clever Impersonator
3 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Kiora's Follower
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
2 Brain Maggot
3 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
3 Elvish Mystic
1 Sagu Mauler
4 Villainous Wealth
4 Dictate of Karametra
1 Chord of Calling
Lands
3 Mana Confluence
2 Llanowar Wastes
2 Yavimaya Coast
3 Temple of Malady
3 Temple of Mystery
3 Forest
4 Opulent Palace
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
In all my lists the mana might could be tweaked some. Here is my final offering, homage to Kaevyn's lists.
4 Karametra's Acolyte
4 Kiora's Follower
4 Clever Impersonator
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Boon Satyr
3 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Genesis Hydra
3 Dictate of Karametra
3 Villainous Wealth
3 Temur Ascendancy
Lands
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Opulent Palace
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Yavimaya Coast
To Kaevyn, I like that Impersonator can do all of the things but i like the smaller plays with it too, asides copying their best creature. Copying a bestowed Boon Satyr is a clever play I think, or just copying boon satyr to cantrip ascendancy/eidlon
No Courser or Carytid means a lot slower starts.
It's true, it maybe starts a little slower, but still has Follower to ramp. I just felt that dictate of karametra made lands worth untaping more than Caryatid being able to hit any color. I go all in, going for 2-3 dictates in play, because with that much mana available cantripping with eidolons can turn into draw-play, draw-play, etc. As Ive said before, I play this deck like Rocky, taking all the hits I need to open up a huge Wealth. Caryatid might be better though, to land Acendancy.
Also, taking hits is putting it lightly. You have no way to defend yourself and you're rrrreal slow out of the gate and easy to disrupt. Dangerous stuff. I mean, negate is gg.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Can't wait to see what goodies the rest of this block gives us...
Any Opinions as to which kind of builds work best against U/W Heroic and/or low-cuve red decks?
Any body tried Crater's Claws
Anybody tried 1-2 Hour of Need?
What I've learned recently:
Clever Impersonator is good.
Prophet of Kruphix is good. I didn't prioritize getting him into pay before, and he felt like a Win-More card. Now that I've seen the glory of instant Speed Genesis Hydra's, I understand why everybody likes him so much. I'm thinking the optimal number is probably 2, instead of 3, though. Could definitely be wrong about that.
Yisan is actually pretty decent. Mostly, he just presents something opponent needs to deal with on turn 2 or turn 3. But he does "get there" sometimes all by him self. He is harder to play than I thought. You have to re-evaluate every turn whether you should be saving mana to use him, or develop board more explicitly. Some times the right decision is really to just let him sit there and be a 2/3 dude ..... I always wanted to push on him as hard as I could at first, so once I realized this he got better. Basically, think of the first activation as an instant speed Rampant Growth that costs 2G, and evaluate it from that perspective as opposed to thinking about how cool it's going to be when you get him up to 5.
I think at least one Hornet Queen belongs in this deck.
Funky one-of I'm trying out at the moment : Paragon of Eternal Wilds (Only in a Yisan Build)
Crater's Claws is generally good. It doesn't serve the Wealth plan, but killing off a threat is a worthy role, and it can also hit the opponent.
Hour of Need is opposite of our strategy. We're playing mana guys to get a decent sized wealth, and exiling them for flyers neuters that. We're not holding mana open to respond to removal either.
Clever Impersonator is in my sideboard, but I never know when to bring it in, or what to take out.
Prophet is good only when you have extra cards to play out. Otherwise it's a 2/3 for 5. So she totally could fit the deck but it's a question of what to cut.
Yisan is an excellent extra cards guy when he survives, but again it is a question of how does it fit.
Hornet Queen is possibly good. If you think of it as #5 and #6 of really devastating big spell, it could make sense, but you don't want too many expensive cards lest you get stuck with a hand full of unplayables.
The trouble is, all these cards are good but you need midrange threats/defense as well. This doesn't work:
4 Caryatid
4 Courser
4 Kiora's Follower
4 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
4 Karametra's Acolyte
2 Prophet
2 Polukranos
2 Arbor Colossus
1 Nylea
1 Elvish Mystic
You lose all the card draw so you won't get Wealth very consistently, and you still have all the weak creatures that die to cheap removal.
I think you could pull something off but you have to choose which strategy to focus on.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Merry XMASLAND!
My combo version puts dictate in on turn 3-4, and then 8 mana happens the next turn. I often copy dictate with impersonator too, mana isnt often the issue lol
edited for typo claiming turn 2 lol
haha....typo, turn 3.
Not exactly sure what youre saying here, but you can copy Siren in creature or aura form
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG