Played this list away from the kitchen table for the first time last night at FNM. Made some quick edits and came up with this and it worked pretty well. Went 2-1 (3 rounds due to too many drops). My wins were against G/R Dragons and B/W Soldiers, my loss was against Esper Dragons/Control, but it felt like a bad matchup from the start, haha.
I found most games went the same way -- survive as best as possible (most games ended with minimal life) and then combo out at the last moment. Things I learned the hard way: always mulligan a one land hand, don't play a combo piece against control without a Swan Song (ha). I will say that this deck was pretty unexpected in my LGS's meta and most decks began with "...what is this?" after getting my mana base out and ended with "Wait, what did you just do to me?" It was really satisfying, I must admit.
Also, Den Protector is great -- two main deck worked wonders and actually acted as a solid beater once I had Jeskai Ascendancy on the field. The deck is a ton of fun.
Thanks! Yeah, I'd love to utilize Deathmist, at least in sideboard. The deck needs an alternate win condition, I think, as game 2 is much more luck-based than game 1 when your opponent knows what to get rid of. I play Melira Podless/Collected Abzan in Modern and for a combo deck, I feel like it has an unreal amount of possible win conditions outside of the combo itself, something I feel this deck lacks a bit. Granted, this combo is relatively foolproof once it gets moving, I just feel like once my Altar of the Brood is gone or my opponent gets rid of one of my primary pieces, I'm gone unless I can get extremely lucky. A damage component would be great and Den Protector is definitely a step in the right direction.
I ran two Coursers in my sideboard last week and they seemed to work really well, in no small part because they were great removal bait. I don't know if I'll keep them. My meta is largely aggro and midrange, so I have a bit less need for all the UB/Esper hate.
I've been working on a crusader brew with the above mentioned protectors and raptors, gives me room to throw in some burn spells, adding some much needed removal and tempo control. Granted it, i think i loose my acceleration of digging for my pieces, but i think it allows enough time to stall the game while your building.
Then again, im horrible at building lol.
I'll let you know how it goes after some play testing against a few other proven decks like my abzan and mono red aggro and tokens...
EDIT: I think i do like the courser idea as well, sounds good.
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
It mostly seems like the Raptor package gives us extra edge in matches that are already good, like Abzan. I suppose it gives Atarka Red a bit of a headache, but I'm still yet to have any problems with that matchup. Could be worth the stronger late-game vs Esper Dragons, but there's very little of it in my meta.
I like the Stratus Dancers in the side. I might try that out myself, since Prognostic Sphinx is largely outclassed by Ojutai & co.
LSV posted a video of the Raptor-Protector version. I don't see how it helps the Atarka Red matchup :S 2 3 mana cards that don't gain life aren't that good vs Atarka Red, you need to do something relevant on critical turns.
Regarding the other matchups, they don't improve the combo (obv). Do they improve the Esper matchup? maybe... Vs the G midrange decks, I rather be comboing
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
It gives you recursion engines vs Atarka Red but is probably too slow. Deathmist Raptor gives Esper a headache because their one-for-one removal is bad at stopping it and it can attack into their untapped creatures.
I don't think it's where we want to be in any match, though. It doesn't advance our primary plan in any meaningful way and doesn't give us a backup worth compromising our main plan for.
Also, frankly, I don't want to drop $100 on a playset of Deathmist Raptor.
My buddy is going to GP Buenos Aires with Atarka Sligh. We tested a lot, and I can tell you that Deathmist+Protector does nothing in that matchup. I would rather have Hornet Nest against R based decks. Playing blockers against decks with burn is unreliable, and that deck can easily play around it with a lot of tokens.
I do see the value of those cards in grindy matchups like Esper or maybe Abzan if they pack a lot of disruption, maybe they can be sideboard material...
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
Quote from "Kakaroto" »
Quote from "Disco Stu" »
Podríamos hacer un topic donde marquemos los peores horrores de ortografía.
So its no surprise that this thread went pretty quite with how hateful the meta currently is and Origins doesn't really offer us anything but the Astronomer build did get some options. Herald of the pantheon might be our Goblin Electromancer. Here is my starting list.
A big plus for this deck over the standard version is that Dromoka's Command is much worse against us in that it will almost never get JA and because of how good DC is normally we should face less over-all enchantment hate. Tutelage can feed into our standard plan and kill them faster and easier but it also lets us put our opponent on a clock while persuing our own combo. They can't sit around and counter what we do.
The Starfield and the Sigil should let us play a reasonable game against decks that are to disruptive to combo. Evolutionary Leap means we can always find another creature against spot removal decks and all of these cards are enchantments so we can dig towards them with astronomer.
Tom Ross Won with a game with it Sphinx's Tutelage(it was a Jeskai Ascendancy tokens deck) he sided them in and then he would cast tutelage and then draw a card with Jace, Chris would mill 4-8 cards almost every draw. Treasure Cruise was cast and it hit hard... I wanna say at least 15-20 cards. and then he flipped jace and then flashed it back. Milled him out.
Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
Quote from Kekule_the_Magician »
As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
yep, that was pretty nasty, against G/R Devotion, Mono Black, white red. etc... I can not help but think its worth 4 sideboard slots all day long. Especially if your local meta is packed with Devotion/mono like mine is.
This combo deck isn't well positioned in the current meta, and I think we're going to face an even higher mountain to climb in the new meta as any black based control deck will be packing Languish. When I saw Infinite Obliteration I was getting resigned to the fact that I may have to retire the mono Caryatid version of the combo. I've been taking summer classes so I haven't had much time to tinker but the Herald of the Pantheon does open up some possibilities.
Beta, I agree that Pantheon seems legit, just not sure how well positioned it'll be for us. Languish is aggravating as hell, but a well timed stratus dancer seems legit too since most people are expecting us to be running Den Protector.
I'm not thrilled with either of Herald of the Pantheon's abilities because it doesn't reduce the price of the Ascendancy itself or dig us further in the deck. When you actually stick the Ascendancy, most of your spells are free anyway. The Enchantress version looks interesting, but I feel like Meletis Astronomer's lack of protection means that you'll get blown out by removal pretty easily.
Meh. Languish is no more of a problem than Anger of the Gods ever was, and it comes a turn slower. Avoid overextending, and protect with Swan Song if possible.
I have tried various Astronomer builds, with or without Herald of the Pantheon, and scrapped it. It just requires way too many moving parts to work, and folds to removal. Digging for an Ascendancy, getting it into play, then dying with a hand/board full of crappy creatures instead of any way to trigger the Ascendancy feels bad. The idea of building this deck without Commune with the Gods and Dig Through Time just baffles me.
Jace is just bad in this deck. Flipping him is actively worse than just having a looter, and I would rather play Humble Defector to actually draw cards anyway.
Sphinx's Tutelage is a decent alternate win condition in grindy matchups, but I certainly wouldn't play it instead of Twinflame and/or Altar of the Brood kills. 1-2 copies in the board is plenty, if at all.
Got paired against MonoRed round one, lost the die roll, and died on turn 4 both games. As normal. It was the loss to GW that was depressing. Game one I somehow managed to fizzle after going through half of my library without finding a Helix, getting attacked down to 1, and being unable to cast DTT due to my only blue land being a Yavimaya Coast. Won game 2 easily, then mulled to five game 3, and couldn't do anything. Dream crushed.
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3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
4x Sylvan Caryatid
1x Altar of the Brood
3x Briber's Purse
4x Anticipate
3x Commune with the Gods
4x Dig Through Time
1x Treasure Cruise
1x Twinflame
4x Retraction Helix
2x Swan Song
4x Taigam's Scheming
3x Frontier Bivouac
2x Island
4x Mana Confluence
1x Mountain
2x Mystic Monastery
1x Shivan Reef
1x Temple of Abandon
2x Temple of Mystery
2x Temple of Plenty
2x Yavimaya Coast
1x Hammer of Purphoros
1x Hornet Nest
2x Negate
2x Prognostic Sphinx
3x Seismic Rupture
1x Swan Song
1x Treasure Cruise
2x Ensoul Artifact
2x Voyaging Satyr
Played this list away from the kitchen table for the first time last night at FNM. Made some quick edits and came up with this and it worked pretty well. Went 2-1 (3 rounds due to too many drops). My wins were against G/R Dragons and B/W Soldiers, my loss was against Esper Dragons/Control, but it felt like a bad matchup from the start, haha.
I found most games went the same way -- survive as best as possible (most games ended with minimal life) and then combo out at the last moment. Things I learned the hard way: always mulligan a one land hand, don't play a combo piece against control without a Swan Song (ha). I will say that this deck was pretty unexpected in my LGS's meta and most decks began with "...what is this?" after getting my mana base out and ended with "Wait, what did you just do to me?" It was really satisfying, I must admit.
Also, Den Protector is great -- two main deck worked wonders and actually acted as a solid beater once I had Jeskai Ascendancy on the field. The deck is a ton of fun.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
Then again, im horrible at building lol.
I'll let you know how it goes after some play testing against a few other proven decks like my abzan and mono red aggro and tokens...
EDIT: I think i do like the courser idea as well, sounds good.
4 Deathmist Raptor
3 Den Protector
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
Lands (21)
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Battlefield Forge
2 Flooded Strand
4 Frontier Bivouac
4 Mana Confluence
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Plenty
3 Windswept Heath
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Altar of the Brood
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
3 Anticipate
4 Dig Through Time
4 Retraction Helix
3 Commune with the Gods
2 Taigam's Scheming
3 Arashin Cleric
1 Den Protector
1 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Stratus Dancer
1 Negate
1 Swan Song
2 Valorous Stance
1 Sarkhan Unbroken
3 Seismic Rupture
I like the Stratus Dancers in the side. I might try that out myself, since Prognostic Sphinx is largely outclassed by Ojutai & co.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
Regarding the other matchups, they don't improve the combo (obv). Do they improve the Esper matchup? maybe... Vs the G midrange decks, I rather be comboing
I don't think it's where we want to be in any match, though. It doesn't advance our primary plan in any meaningful way and doesn't give us a backup worth compromising our main plan for.
Also, frankly, I don't want to drop $100 on a playset of Deathmist Raptor.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
I do see the value of those cards in grindy matchups like Esper or maybe Abzan if they pack a lot of disruption, maybe they can be sideboard material...
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Meletis Astronomer
3 herald of the Pantheon
2 Nyx-Born Rollickor
2 Akroan Crusader
Enchantments:
4 Jeskai Ascendancy
3 Sphinx's Tutelage
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Karametra's Favor
3 Chosen by heliod
4 Retraction Helix
4 Springleaf Drum
Lands:
2 Battlefield Forge
4 Frontier Bivouac
3 Mana Confluence
4 Mystic Monastery
1 Shivan Reef
2 Temple of Plenty
3 Yavimaya Coast
3 Dictate of Kruphrix
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
2 Evolutionary Leap
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Starfield of Nyx
1 Herald of the Pantheon
A big plus for this deck over the standard version is that Dromoka's Command is much worse against us in that it will almost never get JA and because of how good DC is normally we should face less over-all enchantment hate. Tutelage can feed into our standard plan and kill them faster and easier but it also lets us put our opponent on a clock while persuing our own combo. They can't sit around and counter what we do.
The Starfield and the Sigil should let us play a reasonable game against decks that are to disruptive to combo. Evolutionary Leap means we can always find another creature against spot removal decks and all of these cards are enchantments so we can dig towards them with astronomer.
Tom Ross Won with a game with it Sphinx's Tutelage(it was a Jeskai Ascendancy tokens deck) he sided them in and then he would cast tutelage and then draw a card with Jace, Chris would mill 4-8 cards almost every draw. Treasure Cruise was cast and it hit hard... I wanna say at least 15-20 cards. and then he flipped jace and then flashed it back. Milled him out.
I'm not thrilled with either of Herald of the Pantheon's abilities because it doesn't reduce the price of the Ascendancy itself or dig us further in the deck. When you actually stick the Ascendancy, most of your spells are free anyway. The Enchantress version looks interesting, but I feel like Meletis Astronomer's lack of protection means that you'll get blown out by removal pretty easily.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
Jace is just bad in this deck. Flipping him is actively worse than just having a looter, and I would rather play Humble Defector to actually draw cards anyway.
Sphinx's Tutelage is a decent alternate win condition in grindy matchups, but I certainly wouldn't play it instead of Twinflame and/or Altar of the Brood kills. 1-2 copies in the board is plenty, if at all.
ill post back up with results and list no matter how it goes
imnkt giving up on this deck lol
Wins: UG Midrange, Mardu Warriors, Jeskai Aggro, Goblins
Losses: MonoRed Aggro, GW Aggro
Got paired against MonoRed round one, lost the die roll, and died on turn 4 both games. As normal. It was the loss to GW that was depressing. Game one I somehow managed to fizzle after going through half of my library without finding a Helix, getting attacked down to 1, and being unable to cast DTT due to my only blue land being a Yavimaya Coast. Won game 2 easily, then mulled to five game 3, and couldn't do anything. Dream crushed.