So I did a bunch of playtesting yesterday against alot of the prevelent decks atm (ie. Abzan Midrange, Mardu Midrange, Jeskai Tempo) and my god i do not regret my purchase of my U/W list.
In playtesting I found that Last Breath could be a bit awkward as alot of the popular creatures atm dodge the 2 or less power. Devouring Light was AMAZING, every time against my opponent and I was on the draw I would have 1ww and pass turn and he would see the double white and jam Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and +1 him and I would just exile him.
As far as maindeck counterspells I have been running 4x Dissolve, 2x Disdainful Stroke, and 1x Nullify and I have to agree that Nullify was never a dead card in my hand.
I also tried a split of Divination vs. Font of Fortunes and I was extremely pleased with how the font performed.
I think it's more a case that they did well in spite of the deck rather than thanks to the deck. Ivan Floch was pretty vocal about how bad it was, but chose to play it because he was comfortable playing a control strategy. I imagine they went into black for the strong targeted removal and Perilous Vault being colorless meant a sweeper wasn't a strict requirement. That said, I think white is still a better complement to blue for a control strategy than black. Vault and End Hostilities both go off on the same turn, and if you're playing UW your opponent will to some extent be playing around your sweepers anyway.. but that said, there's still a big difference between telegraphing a turn five wrath effect and actually playing a turn four vault.
Losing Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight, etc. hurts, but Banishing Light and the white removal is decent and white provides a much more powerful late game. Fated Retribution is an absolute beating, and Elspeth is just a better card than anything UB has access to (Pearl Lake Ancient..?). I think UW is still the best shell for a control deck, and it doesn't hurt to splash for red, green, or black.
EDIT: Jim Davis just posted this article about control decks on SCG and seems to agree UB just isn't very good.
So where do we go from here?
Honestly, I'm not sure. While I definitely don't love Perilous Vault it might be necessary in the U/B Control decks, but even with that I'm still not convinced they are good enough to be true players in the format.
I'm going to test out U/W with a small green splash for Kiora and if that doesn't pan out I'll probably cut to straight UW. Davis also mentions the glaring problem with Esper; you will lose to your mana base more often than the third color will help. Running Dissolve, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall and End Hostilities together isn't ambitious. It's just a bad idea.
Well, I saw at least two uw control decks made the top 8 at two different scg states tournaments from looking at the autumn states scg deck database. Pretty happy about that, considering it's refreshing to see people still play this deck even after seeing the results of the pro tour which shouldn't really matter to be honest since I think uw control is definitely still an pretty good deck currently and I believe it still can put up impressive results.
With that being said, I definitely would play uw control this weekend at scg boston if I was going which unfortunately I am not.
Edit: I haven't really tested Kiora out before so I can't really comment. Also I agree, I like negates to combat ashiok. I think it could be a good idea to play at least two of them in the main. In addition, it's been noted that a deck like abzan midrange can be more planeswalker heavy especially after board so negates and disdainful stroke is great there. Like Ari Lax's first place abzan midrange list from the pro tour ran two nissa worldwakers in the sideboard which gives the deck more late game power for attrition based strategies and/or game states.
After testing the deck, I was actually pretty surprised that U/B control had such a strong showing at the pro tour - I keep losing most of my games. Most of my matchups have been some version of green devotion/monsters or Abzan. It could be my playstyle, but the Jeskai control deck I was running before felt a lot more powerful, and the U/W and Esper lists seem better on paper as well. I would not expect U/B control to remain the defacto control deck for Standard for long, at least in its current form.
Negate is awesome against so many decks, I highly recommend 2-3 for any deck in the format playing blue. (edit - in the board, obviously).
Well the thing about ub control is that it actually takes a much larger skill set to play correctly then uw control. You really have to be mindful at every point in the game when playing ub control like knowing what to take with thoughtseize and also knowing what to counter goes into a lot of decision branches.
UW control obviously doesn't really have thoughtseize and/or despise so the difficulty of playing uw is greatly diminished IMO. Not really saying anyone that picks up ub control doesn't have skill because I am sure they do and I generally have a lot of respect for control players in general.
Considering, I also have tried out ub control but owen turtenwald's version and I haven't been winning very many games either though I felt i didn't play all of those games to the best of my ability though because i definitely made mistakes and costly mistakes at that. Even though, I still think ub control is fine, I could definitely understand why people are saying it isn't very good.
People on the pro tour generally playtest a ton going into the event and so it's definitely really amazing to see pro players like Ivan Floch and Owen Turtenwald get really far at the pro tour with their ub control decks.
I think ub control is still fine if you play the deck but if anyone does decide to play the deck in a big event I for sure recommend playtesting with it a lot beforehand. I still think the one with vaults can still win alot of games at a high level when you have a ton of games under your belt beforehand.
Anyway, UW control I feel is the safer choice since it's a deck that isn't on everyone's radar like ub control is and it's definitely pretty decent and is more straight forward to play then ub control. But I don't necessarily really care about if UW control is good or not because I've been playing uw control for alot of the time I have been playing standard and I enjoy playing it so that's why I play it.
Also, many of us already run 2-3 negates in our uw control decks so it's pretty obvious that negate is great.
I also think esper control is also a pretty good deck, I dunno, I am just glad to see a lot of players play different forms of blue control and have their reasons to play those decks. People have just been doing their own thing which is healthy for a format like standard.
I probably have said this before but there really isn't no wrong way to build and play uw control, I mean as long as it works well then that's great if not then I think it's pretty easy to make adjustments to it.
@InvPlz: welcome to the forums. Glad uw control has been working out well for you. I might try a split of font of fortunes and divination together myself. Maybe a 4 divination and 1 font of fortune configuration in the main.
I have been playtesting the same card advantage spells the UB runs.
3x Jace's Ingenuity
4x Dig Through Time
The power spike has been ridiculous in the deck, I think that helps make a difference!
By the way, since we do not have cards that say "Destroy creature" like black, I find the tempo gain from Whelming Wave and countering things on the way back down is great. 4 drop board reset most of the time, and with those decks that keep the hands with dorks get shut down
Adapting to a sort of bounce-control with Banishing Lights and some Devouring lights.
So I plan on taking the OP's list to gameday, but my SB is still up in the air. What do you guys think are some key SB cards that come in and MB cards that come out vs the meta, like jeskai tempo/burn, abzan/mardu midrange, or a control mirror?
So I plan on taking the OP's list to gameday, but my SB is still up in the air. What do you guys think are some key SB cards that come in and MB cards that come out vs the meta, like jeskai tempo/burn, abzan/mardu midrange, or a control mirror?
Nice, goodluck at gameday. I think I am also going to play at gameday this weekend as well. I like pimpdonny's sideboard, i'd run with that mostly because pimpdonny has been playing my updated uw control a ton on magic online and his sideboard seems pretty good for that metagame.
Although, I could see adding another nullify to the maindeck by replacing a devouring light for it and i'd move that devouring light to the 1 flex spot in pimpdonny's sideboard or you could make room for a third glare of heresy as well which hits just about everything that abzan aggro plays.
Abzan aggro will most likely be really popular this weekend since there is a standard gp going on in LA and a scg open series in boston. I'd play uw control there if I was going to either of those.
So or back from fnm went 4-1 Beating a couple abzan midrange plus a jeskai midrange lost to jeskai combo do otta think about that matchup more I guess, might have to up to 2 gainsay or something.
Nice job though, keep up the good work. Do you mind if you post the decklist that you used with a sideboard? I know you changed a couple of slots from the maindeck from the Opening post updated uw control list.
ignore the randoms in the sb, it was more last minute tweaks based on the foils I had on hand at the moment, since I usually try to be as close to all foil as I can
Angel was a blowout in 2 games that I remember and has proved her spot in the main as a 1 off, allows you to just catch back up on so much ground on her own, I wanted to try another dig since in testing has been amazing and always wanna see it over jace's. I would stay at 3 tho, its to much at 4 I feel.
What would you run in that last sideboard slot though?
Definitely love the split of 2 prognostic sphinx and 1 resolute archangel, I think it's just ingenius. I was testing the ratio of 1:1 for awhile but never really thought about adding the second prognostic sphinx so kudos on that since it makes a lot of sense. Also, yeah resolute archangel is really amazing, I was playtesting uw control on cockatrice earlier against jeskai aggro and I resolved a resolute archangel and was able to win because I gained 14 life which negated like a little more then half of a typical burn heavy hand. It definitely would of been a lot harder to win without archangel.
I will probably run a third dig through time in my list once I get third one and hopefully I will soon. For now i'll just stick with another jace's inguinity. Also, yeah I have been running four in my esper control list which I only have it on cockatrice but you can definitely feel up the graveyard a lot quicker with thoughtseize/despise and extra fetchlands and if anyone is interested in it you can just click on the link below in my signature.
Anyway, I also like the countermagic configuration in the maindeck your running as well. It's nice to see some upgrades and major ones at that from the updated uw control list from the opening post. Really nice job Pimpdonny, I am actually really impressed with your work on uw control so far, keep it up.
Ya man, the list feels strong, its not sphinx/exlir levels of control, but for a dedicated control player it allows alot of lines of play.
I thought you always had the 2 prog sphinx in the md ya it allows you to stall the board vs so much for ex a monsterious fleeceman or a stormbreath.
The maindeck feels solid, I like having the 1 off negate plus the 1 nullify and the normal 6 counters as they allow the deck to really just draw go unless you need to end some hostilities or draw some cards.
Thanks Kevin for the kind words, it means the world, since your the one that gave me my frame work to which I have went to work and its a great option for those of us that like to durdle hard.
Ya man, the list feels strong, its not sphinx/exlir levels of control, but for a dedicated control player it allows alot of lines of play.
I thought you always had the 2 prog sphinx in the md ya it allows you to stall the board vs so much for ex a monsterious fleeceman or a stormbreath.
The maindeck feels solid, I like having the 1 off negate plus the 1 nullify and the normal 6 counters as they allow the deck to really just draw go unless you need to end some hostilities or draw some cards.
Thanks Kevin for the kind words, it means the world, since your the one that gave me my frame work to which I have went to work and its a great option for those of us that like to durdle hard.
Oh I don't think wizards will print another card like sphinx of revelation in a good while. Sphinx of rev/elixir control took the draw-go control decks to a whole different level and it's probably going to be a long time when wizards decides to print cards that would make draw-go control to be a dominant strategy in standard again. We could always hope for something like that to happen sooner then later though.
I personally don't think wizards likes printing cards that supports draw-go control strategies or they will print cards that will make draw-go strategies obsolete, when they printed a bunch of cards for the color wedges it shows a strong indication that wizards doesn't really like pure control decks existing. I mean I could be wrong but I always felt that way, this explains why I take long breaks from playing standard at a high competitive level at times. I just feel that I am wasting my time if I can't play a dedicated and pure control strategy in standard. I might take a another long break from standard when the second set comes out though but I will still check up on this thread though.
But I think for now uw control in the new standard is definitely reasonable and it's a lot better then not having anything at all for a person that loves draw-go control. This could change when the next khans set comes out unfortunately but at least we still have awhile before then so we should enjoy uw control while we can.
Oh yeah I probably had 2 prognostic sphinx in the maindeck before probably just forgot about it. Yeah, I had 2 sphinx but no resolute archangel in the maindeck which I don't think is correct, originally I thought radiant fountain and tranquil cove would be enough for life gain but sometimes you need that double digit life gain in one turn when you just took control of the game. Also your welcome it's not a problem.
Oh by the way, someone asked me why I am not considering playing ub control and I said if they reprint damnation, grave titan, consecrated sphinx, jace the mindsculptor, and black sun zenith then i'll consider playing ub control. I really wish I could of played ub control back when it was a tier 1 deck in standard but I didn't want to shell out 300 dollars for a set of jaces back then.
Anyway, you still haven't answered my question about that flex slot in the sideboard.
Honestly the entire sb is just a mishmash, run what you feel will help the matches you expect, I have always viewed sideboarding as my weakest point one I am trying to work on, and if I had to go with the perfect 15 I would run:
2 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Decide
3 Nyx-fleece Ram
2 Devouring Light
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Peal Lake Ancient
2 Disdainful stroke
I feel like glares can come in vs any midrange strategy along with the negates and 1 disdainful.
rest is pretty straightforward, sheep for burn matches, negates to come in vs the field, devouring light to come in when siding vs jeskai and you wanna take out ur 4 end hostilities as to clunky.
One final point, pearl lake ancient is a beating with our 8 gain life lands and is an auto include vs jeskai as he allows you to trim win cons and still have a great finisher, while allowing you to cut the elspeth for cheaper stuff as they brign in 2-3 disdainful strokes and its good to go under their counter measures.
That sideboard makes sense, I dunno, as long as a sideboard is general enough to where it can handle just about anything postboard then it's most likely a correct sideboard despite of it being a mishmash or not. The more general the sideboard is the better at least that's how I see it anyway.
I currently have no funds for more fetches and i was unable to obtain last copy of End Hostilities, those are last things to polish the deck. I was 4-0 yesterday on FNM and 3-2 on today's Game Day. The biggest issue were aggro decks, very popular at my LGS, and fighting Red Slight or white and black aggro decks is a real struggle. I wonder what I can change, especially in SB, to fight those decks. More burn? I'm affraid that adding more of those can overload mana as currently i have only 6 sources of red and i'm little arraid of adding more red spells. Do you have other ideas? Also, what should be removed or trimmed in main deck after sideboarding in those matchups besides obvoius Strokes and draw?
My deck is actually a Jeskai deck, but i think it belongs here better than in dedicated UWR topic as red is only a slash color for 3 cards:
I do not agree actually, mostly because it's going to encourage others to talk about adding splashes to a uw control in this thread if I allow you and I don't really want that. There is nothing wrong starting from scratch just like I have with coming up with your own thread for your deck or a uwr control thread in general as I don't think there is an official thread for that as of yet. My apologies and I hope you understand.
Ya your deck is uw splash keranos bit the problem is you have weakest te mana base bu adding extra etb tapped lands and that will slow the deck down, having 10 basics is huge and I personally don't see the point of the splash you might as well embrace jeskai and add more burn sharkan etc.
I agree with you, not to mention when your adding more then a playset of scry lands it can totally change the way the deck plays since then you'll have more control of what you draw which can make games potentially to play out quite a bit more differently. I mean even if you don't scry something to the bottom it can definitely dictate the way your going to play out not only the turn currently but the next turn as well. Not saying that it is a bad thing per say but the scope of uw control is usually just the four scry lands and you run a playset of divination with more lands to come into play untapped so you can draw more of your powerful cards and then cast them without any delays. Which can potentially give UW control a big advantage over three color decks.
I do like the look of your deck, I am just weary of the mana issues, its why I am not on esper after all.
I would say start a new thread for those that want to be 3 colors and more hard control.
Well, it's not like I don't want you to post in here but it's more like I don't really want to encourage others to talk about splashes in here which is why I don't agree. I don't see why it's hard to understand that as I try to be fair to everyone that posts here. I was asking nicely the first time.
Anyhow back to discussion, I was playtesting uw control last night for a bit with pimpdonny's UW control configuration, I managed to beat jeskai ascendancy 2-0, the two gainsays from the board really helped and I also managed to beat a boros deck 2-0 that brad nelson designed. I am pretty glad I drew that glare of heresy for the Elspeth in the second game.
I am actually pretty comfortable with talking about people's decks in other threads but I just want to keep this thread clean of anything that's not uw control discussion. This is a competitive forum afterall and so I want to be professional about it. I also would like to mention that this thread isn't about me it's about the people that are interested in strictly uw control.
But ok fine, i'll answer your question just this once then please discuss jeskai or any other splashes somewhere else and not here. For now on any splashes that are discussed in here I won't tolerate it and there is a pretty high chance I will ask a moderator to step in as well. This is a warning. The main reason why I won't tolerate it is I've spent a lot of time on this thread and have dedicated a lot of time in making uw control able to compete so if people talk about splashes in here then I feel they are stealing my time as well as other people's time too where I could be doing something else instead. I don't mean to be critical about this but I feel I have to mention this. Also one more thing is I won't stand for people arguing with me about this either because I will report you if you do so.
Anyway, now that I got that out of the way to answer your question, in your uwr deck i'd highly suggest replacing the two lightning strikes with two anger of the gods in the board and this is how I would generally sideboard with your deck.
In: 2 Anger of gods, 4 Nyx-fleece ram, 1 Negate, 1 Resolute ArchangelA
Out: 4 Dissolve, 2 Disdainful stroke, 1 Jace's Inguinity, 1 Dig through time
Against Abzan Aggro:
In: 1 Glare of heresy, 4 Nyx-fleece Ram, 1 Clever Impersonator
Out: 4 Last breath, 1 dissolve, 1 Disdainful stroke
I would also like to note that there is a good possibility that I will be able to write a primer for uw control here in the next week or two after my exams. It's not for certain as of yet but i'll try.
Did some testing last night with a 1 of Aegis Angel in the board to protect Elspeth from incoming Hero's Downfalls. Worked surprisingly well, give it a go in your flex spot in the side guys.
The deck honestly seems to be shaping up really well. Might try and test out Silent Sentinel too. The idea being switching out Divination for Fonts and having a steady stream of CA late game. It can also possibly bring back old Banishing Lights too. Dunno if it'll be a bit janky, but I'll let you all know how it goes.
With all this talk on SB's might aswell post my thoughts
Those are really the only solid spots ive found atm. Extra Disdainful Strokes in the side is a trap ive found. I find I'm getting stuck on them in my hand and they can't counter Downfalls mainly.
Glare because as discussed, its a house against many common threats.
Negate for any midrange matchup with blue.
(Because they're bringing in Stubborn Denial)
Ram for aggro
Brimaz is in g2 against pretty much everything. He's a real powerhouse. G2 my early game plan is to just protect him and usually it works.
Devouring Light is there mainly for Mantis Riders, Sarkhan/dragons, well, any threat really. Its a pretty handy card.
Loving UW right now. Thanks Kevin and Donny for all your input towards the deck so far. Its helped heaps.
Hi everyone ! As someone who greatly enjoyed playing Azorius Control last season, it's fun to see some people trying to make it work even when most of our best cards rotated.
Here is my first take on it, please keep in mind that this list is not tested yet and is not "metagamed", aka I'm trying to run a "traditional" pure Control deck that aims to do well in an "open meta" where I could be paired against "anything". Especially the 2 Dissipates are "flex slots" in my mind and could be used for anything from Prognostic Sphinxes (to pressure Control/planeswalkers or block Stormbreath Dragons), to Fated Retributions (against Midrange), more Disdainful Strokes, more Last Breaths etc.
I didn't included a sideboard yet because I'm really not sure how the meta will shake up at this point and the sideboard depends almost entirely on that.
Yeah, I really loved uw control as well during last season played it for most of the season but played sphinx of revelation the whole time it was out. So it's only fitting that I am trying to make it work in this one. I haven't regretted my decision yet though because the people that have played uw control have done pretty well with it.
I definitely like the looks of your list though, I think if you want to play four dig through times though, I may suggest adding additional fetches for the main that can fetch out the deck's respected basics like polluted delta and windswept heath. I also would suggest two nullifies instead of two dissipates as well. I find nullify to be pretty awesome in testing. But even without the additional fetches I think a playset of dig through times could definitely be reasonable I mean the third or fourth one will probably not be casted until later in the game but that's fine since dig through time is pretty good at any point of the game you can cast it.
Did some testing last night with a 1 of Aegis Angel in the board to protect Elspeth from incoming Hero's Downfalls. Worked surprisingly well, give it a go in your flex spot in the side guys.
The deck honestly seems to be shaping up really well. Might try and test out Silent Sentinel too. The idea being switching out Divination for Fonts and having a steady stream of CA late game. It can also possibly bring back old Banishing Lights too. Dunno if it'll be a bit janky, but I'll let you all know how it goes.
With all this talk on SB's might aswell post my thoughts
Those are really the only solid spots ive found atm. Extra Disdainful Strokes in the side is a trap ive found. I find I'm getting stuck on them in my hand and they can't counter Downfalls mainly.
Glare because as discussed, its a house against many common threats.
Negate for any midrange matchup with blue.
(Because they're bringing in Stubborn Denial)
Ram for aggro
Brimaz is in g2 against pretty much everything. He's a real powerhouse. G2 my early game plan is to just protect him and usually it works.
Devouring Light is there mainly for Mantis Riders, Sarkhan/dragons, well, any threat really. Its a pretty handy card.
Loving UW right now. Thanks Kevin and Donny for all your input towards the deck so far. Its helped heaps.
Oh nice to hear, I haven't tried aegis angel yet but I think I am going to the angel seems interesting.
I also agree on brimaz but the reason why you don't see them in most of my lists is because I can't really afford them right now. But i'd run them if I had them and that's the beauty of uw control it's pretty good for budget players too.
Well, let me put it this way I like your list in context that it's a good starting point and good foundation to build your future decklists off of. I mean, as the standard format evolves we need to adjust our uw control decklists accordingly.
Anyhow, I personally don't really like running a whole lot of fetches in two color decks anyway, 4 flooded strands is plenty. I also like running like 2-3 dig through times in uw control. I have settled on two for now though and been happy with just two. I also haven't been a fan of the scry lands with the fetches but of course i'll still run both as they are some of the best mana fixing we have in standard.
As for the double blue off of nullify I haven't really had trouble with casting it when I need to counter something on turn 2 or 3. I just think nullify is just really good right now with all of those abzan agro and jeskai everywhere your bound to find plenty of targets from turn 2 and so on with nullify. Considering, if your on the draw you'd definitely want to counter brimaz, mantis rider, and anafenza on their turn 3. I just believe nullify is just too good not to run at least one copy and it could actually make a pretty big difference when you have at least one nullify.
So I did a bunch of playtesting yesterday against alot of the prevelent decks atm (ie. Abzan Midrange, Mardu Midrange, Jeskai Tempo) and my god i do not regret my purchase of my U/W list.
In playtesting I found that Last Breath could be a bit awkward as alot of the popular creatures atm dodge the 2 or less power.
Devouring Light was AMAZING, every time against my opponent and I was on the draw I would have 1ww and pass turn and he would see the double white and jam Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and +1 him and I would just exile him.
As far as maindeck counterspells I have been running 4x Dissolve, 2x Disdainful Stroke, and 1x Nullify and I have to agree that Nullify was never a dead card in my hand.
I also tried a split of Divination vs. Font of Fortunes and I was extremely pleased with how the font performed.
Losing Hero's Downfall, Bile Blight, etc. hurts, but Banishing Light and the white removal is decent and white provides a much more powerful late game. Fated Retribution is an absolute beating, and Elspeth is just a better card than anything UB has access to (Pearl Lake Ancient..?). I think UW is still the best shell for a control deck, and it doesn't hurt to splash for red, green, or black.
EDIT: Jim Davis just posted this article about control decks on SCG and seems to agree UB just isn't very good.
I'm going to test out U/W with a small green splash for Kiora and if that doesn't pan out I'll probably cut to straight UW. Davis also mentions the glaring problem with Esper; you will lose to your mana base more often than the third color will help. Running Dissolve, Bile Blight, Hero's Downfall and End Hostilities together isn't ambitious. It's just a bad idea.
'78 CB750F, '09 CBR600RR
Well the thing about ub control is that it actually takes a much larger skill set to play correctly then uw control. You really have to be mindful at every point in the game when playing ub control like knowing what to take with thoughtseize and also knowing what to counter goes into a lot of decision branches.
UW control obviously doesn't really have thoughtseize and/or despise so the difficulty of playing uw is greatly diminished IMO. Not really saying anyone that picks up ub control doesn't have skill because I am sure they do and I generally have a lot of respect for control players in general.
Considering, I also have tried out ub control but owen turtenwald's version and I haven't been winning very many games either though I felt i didn't play all of those games to the best of my ability though because i definitely made mistakes and costly mistakes at that. Even though, I still think ub control is fine, I could definitely understand why people are saying it isn't very good.
People on the pro tour generally playtest a ton going into the event and so it's definitely really amazing to see pro players like Ivan Floch and Owen Turtenwald get really far at the pro tour with their ub control decks.
I think ub control is still fine if you play the deck but if anyone does decide to play the deck in a big event I for sure recommend playtesting with it a lot beforehand. I still think the one with vaults can still win alot of games at a high level when you have a ton of games under your belt beforehand.
Anyway, UW control I feel is the safer choice since it's a deck that isn't on everyone's radar like ub control is and it's definitely pretty decent and is more straight forward to play then ub control. But I don't necessarily really care about if UW control is good or not because I've been playing uw control for alot of the time I have been playing standard and I enjoy playing it so that's why I play it.
Also, many of us already run 2-3 negates in our uw control decks so it's pretty obvious that negate is great.
I also think esper control is also a pretty good deck, I dunno, I am just glad to see a lot of players play different forms of blue control and have their reasons to play those decks. People have just been doing their own thing which is healthy for a format like standard.
I probably have said this before but there really isn't no wrong way to build and play uw control, I mean as long as it works well then that's great if not then I think it's pretty easy to make adjustments to it.
@InvPlz: welcome to the forums. Glad uw control has been working out well for you. I might try a split of font of fortunes and divination together myself. Maybe a 4 divination and 1 font of fortune configuration in the main.
3x Jace's Ingenuity
4x Dig Through Time
The power spike has been ridiculous in the deck, I think that helps make a difference!
By the way, since we do not have cards that say "Destroy creature" like black, I find the tempo gain from Whelming Wave and countering things on the way back down is great. 4 drop board reset most of the time, and with those decks that keep the hands with dorks get shut down
Adapting to a sort of bounce-control with Banishing Lights and some Devouring lights.
My sb is currently looking like:
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
Nice, goodluck at gameday. I think I am also going to play at gameday this weekend as well. I like pimpdonny's sideboard, i'd run with that mostly because pimpdonny has been playing my updated uw control a ton on magic online and his sideboard seems pretty good for that metagame.
Although, I could see adding another nullify to the maindeck by replacing a devouring light for it and i'd move that devouring light to the 1 flex spot in pimpdonny's sideboard or you could make room for a third glare of heresy as well which hits just about everything that abzan aggro plays.
Abzan aggro will most likely be really popular this weekend since there is a standard gp going on in LA and a scg open series in boston. I'd play uw control there if I was going to either of those.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
ignore the randoms in the sb, it was more last minute tweaks based on the foils I had on hand at the moment, since I usually try to be as close to all foil as I can
Angel was a blowout in 2 games that I remember and has proved her spot in the main as a 1 off, allows you to just catch back up on so much ground on her own, I wanted to try another dig since in testing has been amazing and always wanna see it over jace's. I would stay at 3 tho, its to much at 4 I feel.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
Definitely love the split of 2 prognostic sphinx and 1 resolute archangel, I think it's just ingenius. I was testing the ratio of 1:1 for awhile but never really thought about adding the second prognostic sphinx so kudos on that since it makes a lot of sense. Also, yeah resolute archangel is really amazing, I was playtesting uw control on cockatrice earlier against jeskai aggro and I resolved a resolute archangel and was able to win because I gained 14 life which negated like a little more then half of a typical burn heavy hand. It definitely would of been a lot harder to win without archangel.
I will probably run a third dig through time in my list once I get third one and hopefully I will soon. For now i'll just stick with another jace's inguinity. Also, yeah I have been running four in my esper control list which I only have it on cockatrice but you can definitely feel up the graveyard a lot quicker with thoughtseize/despise and extra fetchlands and if anyone is interested in it you can just click on the link below in my signature.
Anyway, I also like the countermagic configuration in the maindeck your running as well. It's nice to see some upgrades and major ones at that from the updated uw control list from the opening post. Really nice job Pimpdonny, I am actually really impressed with your work on uw control so far, keep it up.
I thought you always had the 2 prog sphinx in the md ya it allows you to stall the board vs so much for ex a monsterious fleeceman or a stormbreath.
The maindeck feels solid, I like having the 1 off negate plus the 1 nullify and the normal 6 counters as they allow the deck to really just draw go unless you need to end some hostilities or draw some cards.
Thanks Kevin for the kind words, it means the world, since your the one that gave me my frame work to which I have went to work and its a great option for those of us that like to durdle hard.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
Oh I don't think wizards will print another card like sphinx of revelation in a good while. Sphinx of rev/elixir control took the draw-go control decks to a whole different level and it's probably going to be a long time when wizards decides to print cards that would make draw-go control to be a dominant strategy in standard again. We could always hope for something like that to happen sooner then later though.
I personally don't think wizards likes printing cards that supports draw-go control strategies or they will print cards that will make draw-go strategies obsolete, when they printed a bunch of cards for the color wedges it shows a strong indication that wizards doesn't really like pure control decks existing. I mean I could be wrong but I always felt that way, this explains why I take long breaks from playing standard at a high competitive level at times. I just feel that I am wasting my time if I can't play a dedicated and pure control strategy in standard. I might take a another long break from standard when the second set comes out though but I will still check up on this thread though.
But I think for now uw control in the new standard is definitely reasonable and it's a lot better then not having anything at all for a person that loves draw-go control. This could change when the next khans set comes out unfortunately but at least we still have awhile before then so we should enjoy uw control while we can.
Oh yeah I probably had 2 prognostic sphinx in the maindeck before probably just forgot about it. Yeah, I had 2 sphinx but no resolute archangel in the maindeck which I don't think is correct, originally I thought radiant fountain and tranquil cove would be enough for life gain but sometimes you need that double digit life gain in one turn when you just took control of the game. Also your welcome it's not a problem.
Oh by the way, someone asked me why I am not considering playing ub control and I said if they reprint damnation, grave titan, consecrated sphinx, jace the mindsculptor, and black sun zenith then i'll consider playing ub control. I really wish I could of played ub control back when it was a tier 1 deck in standard but I didn't want to shell out 300 dollars for a set of jaces back then.
Anyway, you still haven't answered my question about that flex slot in the sideboard.
2 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Decide
3 Nyx-fleece Ram
2 Devouring Light
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Peal Lake Ancient
2 Disdainful stroke
I feel like glares can come in vs any midrange strategy along with the negates and 1 disdainful.
rest is pretty straightforward, sheep for burn matches, negates to come in vs the field, devouring light to come in when siding vs jeskai and you wanna take out ur 4 end hostilities as to clunky.
One final point, pearl lake ancient is a beating with our 8 gain life lands and is an auto include vs jeskai as he allows you to trim win cons and still have a great finisher, while allowing you to cut the elspeth for cheaper stuff as they brign in 2-3 disdainful strokes and its good to go under their counter measures.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
If you're looking to stall early aggression, there's stuff like Oppressive Rays and Singing Bell Strike. Omenspeaker is another possible option.
I do not agree actually, mostly because it's going to encourage others to talk about adding splashes to a uw control in this thread if I allow you and I don't really want that. There is nothing wrong starting from scratch just like I have with coming up with your own thread for your deck or a uwr control thread in general as I don't think there is an official thread for that as of yet. My apologies and I hope you understand.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
I would say start a new thread for those that want to be 3 colors and more hard control.
Esper draw go Control!
Twitch stream: http://www.twitch.tv/pimpdonny
Anyhow back to discussion, I was playtesting uw control last night for a bit with pimpdonny's UW control configuration, I managed to beat jeskai ascendancy 2-0, the two gainsays from the board really helped and I also managed to beat a boros deck 2-0 that brad nelson designed. I am pretty glad I drew that glare of heresy for the Elspeth in the second game.
But ok fine, i'll answer your question just this once then please discuss jeskai or any other splashes somewhere else and not here. For now on any splashes that are discussed in here I won't tolerate it and there is a pretty high chance I will ask a moderator to step in as well. This is a warning. The main reason why I won't tolerate it is I've spent a lot of time on this thread and have dedicated a lot of time in making uw control able to compete so if people talk about splashes in here then I feel they are stealing my time as well as other people's time too where I could be doing something else instead. I don't mean to be critical about this but I feel I have to mention this. Also one more thing is I won't stand for people arguing with me about this either because I will report you if you do so.
Anyway, now that I got that out of the way to answer your question, in your uwr deck i'd highly suggest replacing the two lightning strikes with two anger of the gods in the board and this is how I would generally sideboard with your deck.
Against mono black aggro:
In: 2 Anger of gods, 1 Resolute Archangel, 4 Nyx-fleece Ram
Out: 2 Disdainful Stroke, 4 Dissolve, 1 Jace's Inguinity
Against Red sligh:
In: 2 Anger of gods, 4 Nyx-fleece ram, 1 Negate, 1 Resolute ArchangelA
Out: 4 Dissolve, 2 Disdainful stroke, 1 Jace's Inguinity, 1 Dig through time
Against Abzan Aggro:
In: 1 Glare of heresy, 4 Nyx-fleece Ram, 1 Clever Impersonator
Out: 4 Last breath, 1 dissolve, 1 Disdainful stroke
I would also like to note that there is a good possibility that I will be able to write a primer for uw control here in the next week or two after my exams. It's not for certain as of yet but i'll try.
The deck honestly seems to be shaping up really well. Might try and test out Silent Sentinel too. The idea being switching out Divination for Fonts and having a steady stream of CA late game. It can also possibly bring back old Banishing Lights too. Dunno if it'll be a bit janky, but I'll let you all know how it goes.
With all this talk on SB's might aswell post my thoughts
2 Negate
4 Nyx Fleece Ram
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Devouring Light
Those are really the only solid spots ive found atm. Extra Disdainful Strokes in the side is a trap ive found. I find I'm getting stuck on them in my hand and they can't counter Downfalls mainly.
Glare because as discussed, its a house against many common threats.
Negate for any midrange matchup with blue.
(Because they're bringing in Stubborn Denial)
Ram for aggro
Brimaz is in g2 against pretty much everything. He's a real powerhouse. G2 my early game plan is to just protect him and usually it works.
Devouring Light is there mainly for Mantis Riders, Sarkhan/dragons, well, any threat really. Its a pretty handy card.
Loving UW right now. Thanks Kevin and Donny for all your input towards the deck so far. Its helped heaps.
Yeah, I really loved uw control as well during last season played it for most of the season but played sphinx of revelation the whole time it was out. So it's only fitting that I am trying to make it work in this one. I haven't regretted my decision yet though because the people that have played uw control have done pretty well with it.
I definitely like the looks of your list though, I think if you want to play four dig through times though, I may suggest adding additional fetches for the main that can fetch out the deck's respected basics like polluted delta and windswept heath. I also would suggest two nullifies instead of two dissipates as well. I find nullify to be pretty awesome in testing. But even without the additional fetches I think a playset of dig through times could definitely be reasonable I mean the third or fourth one will probably not be casted until later in the game but that's fine since dig through time is pretty good at any point of the game you can cast it.
Oh nice to hear, I haven't tried aegis angel yet but I think I am going to the angel seems interesting.
I also agree on brimaz but the reason why you don't see them in most of my lists is because I can't really afford them right now. But i'd run them if I had them and that's the beauty of uw control it's pretty good for budget players too.
You are also welcome too. I definitely try.
Anyhow, I personally don't really like running a whole lot of fetches in two color decks anyway, 4 flooded strands is plenty. I also like running like 2-3 dig through times in uw control. I have settled on two for now though and been happy with just two. I also haven't been a fan of the scry lands with the fetches but of course i'll still run both as they are some of the best mana fixing we have in standard.
As for the double blue off of nullify I haven't really had trouble with casting it when I need to counter something on turn 2 or 3. I just think nullify is just really good right now with all of those abzan agro and jeskai everywhere your bound to find plenty of targets from turn 2 and so on with nullify. Considering, if your on the draw you'd definitely want to counter brimaz, mantis rider, and anafenza on their turn 3. I just believe nullify is just too good not to run at least one copy and it could actually make a pretty big difference when you have at least one nullify.