It looks really slow and weak to aggro. Have you tested it yet?
Not at all, I just deckbuild like crazy. I have about 8 or 9 decklists in the standard creation forums right now.
The weak to aggro part is true which is why most of the sideboard is the way it is. That being said, in the meta the most aggressive decklist is the mardu and the R/w/x boros lists. This deck can at least get started and throw a 4/4 or better in the way.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
Is the solution against Jeskai Tempo/Aggro to take out the one drops and shift the curve up and be controllish? Like -4 Shorestalker and -4 Ornithopter and bring in counter magic?
I've actually tried to make the deck faster for game 1 by taking out all the instants and enchantments except for 4 copies of Ensoul Artifact and 3 copies of Singing Bell Strike and moving my copies of Bident of Thassa to the sideboard for control/midrange match ups.
I have also removed Ornithopter, for like the 3rd time. I just find myself unhappy with it.
In place of those cards I have 2 copies of Scuttling Doom Engine, 3 copies of Chief Engineer, 3 copies of Gargoyle Sentinal, and 3 copies of Phyrexian Revoker. I also run Omenspeaker in my main.
The Gargoyle Sentinel is to block Mantis Rider and deal with Planeswalkers, two things the old list was soft to.
I've actually tried to make the deck faster for game 1 by taking out all the instants and enchantments except for 4 copies of Ensoul Artifact and 3 copies of Singing Bell Strike and moving my copies of Bident of Thassa to the sideboard for control/midrange match ups.
I have also removed Ornithopter, for like the 3rd time. I just find myself unhappy with it.
In place of those cards I have 2 copies of Scuttling Doom Engine, 3 copies of Chief Engineer, 3 copies of Gargoyle Sentinal, and 3 copies of Phyrexian Revoker. I also run Omenspeaker in my main.
The Gargoyle Sentinel is to block Mantis Rider and deal with Planeswalkers, two things the old list was soft to.
I just read through this entire thread. Would you mind posting your most successful build or the one that you are most impressed with? I played the mono-U deck during Theros standard. I haven't touched it yet since I lost the majority of my cards due to rotation. However, I have the majority of the cards for this deck.
Has anyone considered taking a page out of modern blue moon for your mono blue devotion
Run a control deck main, but include some cards that stick around than master for the win??
It would struggle a lot versing agro(but we can side for that) but I feel it could have a shot against other control lists as well as midrange
Not really. We already have a decent matchup against control after sideboard, so that going towards control just makes us worse against aggro and maybe gives us a marginal upgrade versus control. I spent months with the old mono-blue list trying to make it a more controlling version and gave up because I felt the change was worth it.
I've got a build that is meant to address the weakness our current lists have against planeswalkers, and Jeskai. Mantis Ride is a huge brick wall and our current weenies can't answer it and they are inadequate against midrange.
Last night I watched an FNM video on Force Strategy Games youtube channel. He used Paragon of Gathering Mists in his build. I had tried it before and felt it was too slow, and competed with Master of Waves in the 4 drop slot. However the video of Force's channel showed me how it's useful as a finisher rather than another creature.
So I put this build together and tested it against my Abzhan midrange and Jeskai decks. It has done quite well in testing:
Want to fix all the problems with mono blue. Splash red for spells. You don't mess up your devotion for U and get lightning strikes, arc lightning, and cone of flame is very good with Thaumaturge. Also Circle of Flame from the board dominates the aggro mirror matches.
From what I've learned though Thassa is terrible in the deck. Dropped down to a 2 of and might cut the other 2 altogether.
Thassa is terrible if you lower your creature count by splashing for instants. Without spamming the board with creatures, you will never get devotion. The old monoblue list had 28 creatures, and that was because Thassa is worth building a deck around. She scrys for you and gives you the win with her ability to make your creatures unblockable, which gives the deck the chance to beat midrange. Abzhan doesn't scare me because of Thassa.
Thassa was worthing building around because you had lots of double and triple UUU. It didn't take much to get her going. That isn't the case right now.
I just came back from Khans Gameday. I went 2-1-1 with the version I posted above: with Paragon of Gathering Mists, and Phyrexian Revoker.
I tied my first match against BUG control because we went to time at 1-1. I won the second game after I brought in 11 cards just for the control match-up.
I won my second match against B/x devotion: 2-1. I brought in Bident from the sideboard for games 2 + 3.
I won my third match against Jeskai: 2-0. I took out Ensoul Artifact because of Jeskai Charm and brought in Negate and Dissolve.
I lost my fourth match, again against Jeskai. I won the first game thanks to Master of Waves. I lost game 2 mainly because I kept a 6 land hand. I lost the third game just because.
Singing Bell Strike is now in my deck instead of Encrust mainly because Jeskai plays both Brimaz and Mantis Rider.
I feel like the deck is about as far as it can be taken now. There was another monoblue player there, and he also had the artifact subtheme, but his record was much worse than mine and I am guessing it's because his build with Springleaf Drum and Ornithopter cannot apply as much pressure as the build with Paragon can.
Also Phyrexian Revoker is a nice tempo play against decks with planeswalkers; I greatly prefer it over Ornithopter.
Match 1 was against U/W Heroic. I mulled to 4 and that loss was pretty straightforward. I tried to put up a fight in the 2nd game only to lose to an already gigantic Battlewise Hoplite with Aqueous Form on it. I wonder if an AEtherspouts could have been good in that match up. (0-2)
Match 2 was against G/b Devotion. It was very similar to Ross Merriam's deck. I felt I kept bad hands in both games. But I was able to pressure him with my Ensouled Ornithopter until a Genesis Hydra called in Hornet Queen and it was pretty much over at that point. (0-2)
Match 3 was against Mardu Midrange. Again, I wasn't curving out properly from the get-go and quickly lost game one when my opponent began dropping removals and finished me off with Sarkhan. The second game I managed to squeak in a win because I had an Ensouled Ornithopter followed by an Ensouled Darksteel Citadel. I lost game 3 because of a misplay. There was a Butcher of the Horde and a Sarkhan in play. I was able to cast Clever Impersonator to copy Sarkhan. Then I used his -3 ability to kill off the Butcher. The opponent's Sarkhan was able to mow me down later on. I also missed a chance to cast Triton Tactics when he fired off Anger of the Gods. (1-2)
All in all, it was really bad luck and some crucial misplays that did me in. My opponent suggested that I remove Military Intelligence and mainboard 2 Negate and 1 Disdainful Stroke. I was inclined to agree with him given the current state of things. It does mean, however, that we lose 3 pips to bring Thassa online.
I think Encrust is important against decks that have creatures that require activation (Stormbreath and the other monstrosities out there). And it adds 2 pips to help Thassa.
I was saddened to read that Anatole thinks that the deck has reached its limit. Because to me that statement means that there is no way for this deck to measure up against the top-tier decks now. I hope this isn't really the case. I think the only way to go forward is to abandon the Thassa route (either taking her out totally or just reducing her to perhaps 2) and just go all out with Master of Waves and Clever Impersonator.
OK. Thanks for sharing. I would love for someone else to test out the new version I posted on the main page and tell me if it works for them. I feel like we need a creature count of at least 28, just like the old mono blue list, in order to create enough pressure until we get Thassa or Master on line.
I came back from a standard session with friends. I played against mono-red aggro and Jeskai. The current deck I have listed on the main page feels very good. I have taken out Triton Tactics from the sideboard and replaced it with Monastery Flock. It's meant to be a blocker for Mantis Rider and Sarkhan, but it's also good against Rabble Master decks. Of course it doesn't kill the tokens, but it's big enough to stop most of the aggression and buy time to get to Master.
Frost Lynx is great tempo together with Singing Bell Strike. Quickling can counter any targeted removal and bounce Frost Lynx or Clever Impersonator to be recast. Tried 3 Thassa, but I really want the 4th for the reach to close out games. Went back to Bident for card draw. Partly because not enough room for 3 Military Intelligence, but still want a card draw engine that grants devotion. Coral Barrier is a mini-MoW, theoretically to stop aggro (untested).
Not at all, I just deckbuild like crazy. I have about 8 or 9 decklists in the standard creation forums right now.
The weak to aggro part is true which is why most of the sideboard is the way it is. That being said, in the meta the most aggressive decklist is the mardu and the R/w/x boros lists. This deck can at least get started and throw a 4/4 or better in the way.
I have also removed Ornithopter, for like the 3rd time. I just find myself unhappy with it.
In place of those cards I have 2 copies of Scuttling Doom Engine, 3 copies of Chief Engineer, 3 copies of Gargoyle Sentinal, and 3 copies of Phyrexian Revoker. I also run Omenspeaker in my main.
The Gargoyle Sentinel is to block Mantis Rider and deal with Planeswalkers, two things the old list was soft to.
I just read through this entire thread. Would you mind posting your most successful build or the one that you are most impressed with? I played the mono-U deck during Theros standard. I haven't touched it yet since I lost the majority of my cards due to rotation. However, I have the majority of the cards for this deck.
Run a control deck main, but include some cards that stick around than master for the win??
It would struggle a lot versing agro(but we can side for that) but I feel it could have a shot against other control lists as well as midrange
Off the top of my head
Like I said this would be terrible versing agro but I feel like with some work and a strong side it may have some kind of chance
Last night I watched an FNM video on Force Strategy Games youtube channel. He used Paragon of Gathering Mists in his build. I had tried it before and felt it was too slow, and competed with Master of Waves in the 4 drop slot. However the video of Force's channel showed me how it's useful as a finisher rather than another creature.
So I put this build together and tested it against my Abzhan midrange and Jeskai decks. It has done quite well in testing:
Creatures [30]
4 Hypnotic siren
4 Triton Shorestalker
3 Omenspeaker
4 Vaporkin
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Master of Waves
4 Paragon of Gathering Mists
3 Singing Bell Strike
4 ensoul artifact
Lands [23]
17 Island
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Darksteel citadel
2 Prognostic Sphinx
3 Bident of Thassa
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
2 Dissolve
3 Triton Tactics
1 Aetherspouts
From what I've learned though Thassa is terrible in the deck. Dropped down to a 2 of and might cut the other 2 altogether.
I tied my first match against BUG control because we went to time at 1-1. I won the second game after I brought in 11 cards just for the control match-up.
I won my second match against B/x devotion: 2-1. I brought in Bident from the sideboard for games 2 + 3.
I won my third match against Jeskai: 2-0. I took out Ensoul Artifact because of Jeskai Charm and brought in Negate and Dissolve.
I lost my fourth match, again against Jeskai. I won the first game thanks to Master of Waves. I lost game 2 mainly because I kept a 6 land hand. I lost the third game just because.
Singing Bell Strike is now in my deck instead of Encrust mainly because Jeskai plays both Brimaz and Mantis Rider.
I feel like the deck is about as far as it can be taken now. There was another monoblue player there, and he also had the artifact subtheme, but his record was much worse than mine and I am guessing it's because his build with Springleaf Drum and Ornithopter cannot apply as much pressure as the build with Paragon can.
Also Phyrexian Revoker is a nice tempo play against decks with planeswalkers; I greatly prefer it over Ornithopter.
I played the deck list of Lord of Atlantis.
Match 1 was against U/W Heroic. I mulled to 4 and that loss was pretty straightforward. I tried to put up a fight in the 2nd game only to lose to an already gigantic Battlewise Hoplite with Aqueous Form on it. I wonder if an AEtherspouts could have been good in that match up. (0-2)
Match 2 was against G/b Devotion. It was very similar to Ross Merriam's deck. I felt I kept bad hands in both games. But I was able to pressure him with my Ensouled Ornithopter until a Genesis Hydra called in Hornet Queen and it was pretty much over at that point. (0-2)
Match 3 was against Mardu Midrange. Again, I wasn't curving out properly from the get-go and quickly lost game one when my opponent began dropping removals and finished me off with Sarkhan. The second game I managed to squeak in a win because I had an Ensouled Ornithopter followed by an Ensouled Darksteel Citadel. I lost game 3 because of a misplay. There was a Butcher of the Horde and a Sarkhan in play. I was able to cast Clever Impersonator to copy Sarkhan. Then I used his -3 ability to kill off the Butcher. The opponent's Sarkhan was able to mow me down later on. I also missed a chance to cast Triton Tactics when he fired off Anger of the Gods. (1-2)
All in all, it was really bad luck and some crucial misplays that did me in. My opponent suggested that I remove Military Intelligence and mainboard 2 Negate and 1 Disdainful Stroke. I was inclined to agree with him given the current state of things. It does mean, however, that we lose 3 pips to bring Thassa online.
I think Encrust is important against decks that have creatures that require activation (Stormbreath and the other monstrosities out there). And it adds 2 pips to help Thassa.
I was saddened to read that Anatole thinks that the deck has reached its limit. Because to me that statement means that there is no way for this deck to measure up against the top-tier decks now. I hope this isn't really the case. I think the only way to go forward is to abandon the Thassa route (either taking her out totally or just reducing her to perhaps 2) and just go all out with Master of Waves and Clever Impersonator.
Edit: here it is -
Creatures [30]
4 Hypnotic siren
4 Triton Shorestalker
3 Omenspeaker
4 Vaporkin
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Master of Waves
4 Paragon of Gathering Mists
4 Singing Bell Strike
3 ensoul artifact
Lands [23]
17 Island
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Darksteel citadel
2 Prognostic Sphinx
3 Bident of Thassa
3 Negate
3 Dissolve
3 Monastery Flock
1 Aetherspouts
17 Island
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
// Permanents
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Singing Bell Strike
2 Bident of Thassa
// Creatures
4 Ornithopter
4 Triton Shorestalker
3 Quickling
4 Vaporkin
4 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Frost Lynx
1 Clever Impersonator
3 Master of Waves
3 Negate
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Dissolve
3 Coral Barrier
1 Master of Waves
1 Clever Impersonator
2 Prognostic Sphinx
Frost Lynx is great tempo together with Singing Bell Strike. Quickling can counter any targeted removal and bounce Frost Lynx or Clever Impersonator to be recast. Tried 3 Thassa, but I really want the 4th for the reach to close out games. Went back to Bident for card draw. Partly because not enough room for 3 Military Intelligence, but still want a card draw engine that grants devotion. Coral Barrier is a mini-MoW, theoretically to stop aggro (untested).
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