For a while I've been working on an approach to Temur that is more tempo/control oriented and less focused on "play big thing; turn big thing sideways". I've been discussing the possibilities over in the Temur Tempo thread, but I thought I would share it with you guys and hopefully get some feedback. Is this deck viable? I have no idea. I think there might be something here, but with the meta being undefined and with so many different brews popping up everyday, I'm not exactly sure what this deck needs to beat.
For a while now I've been working on an approach to Temur that is more focused on tempo/control aspects as opposed to a midrange beatdown strategy. Even though it may be more intuitive to approach Temur as a natural progression from the R/G creature decks of RTR/THS standard, I believe that the pieces given to us in KTK suggests that if there is a successful Temur deck to be made, it'll be some sort of aggressive control deck. Is such a deck viable? I have no idea. I think there might be something here, but with the meta being undefined and with so many different brews popping up everyday, it's hard to say what we're up against or if we even have the pieces to fight whatever strategies end up dominating standard.
Simply put, this is not a project for the Timmys. If your preferred playstyle is "play big thing; turn big thing sideways", then I think you're better off satying in mono-green or R/G. The blue splash for Savage Knuckleblade just doesn't seem worth it unless you're willing take advantage of the control options that blue affords you (even though these options may be severely limited at the moment).
With that being said, I'll offer up two of the builds that I've been working on over the past few weeks. For the time being, I'll omit mana bases. The reasons being A) These decks seem to be very mana intensive and susceptible to losing if they stumble even once on a land drop, and B) I'm awful at developing mana bases.
Hopefully the ideas in this thread spark discussion and inspire people to try out their own brews. I'm excited by the idea of a truly aggressive control styled deck existing in standard again, and would love to see this work.
Like many others, Savage Knuckleblade immediately captured my imagination when it was spoiled. It's a huge beater that stays relevant at all point of the game. What's most interesting about this card is the fact that all three of its modes are conducive to a more controlling strategy. With enough mana he has a pseudo form of evasion (threatening to pump will mean our opponent will sometimes have to let it through), a way to punish a defenseless opponent or assassinate unguarded planeswalkers (by giving it haste), and the ability to blank removal spells and survive sweepers.
The card that I think best compliments Knuckleblade is Goblin Rabblemaster. Several professional players have already suggested that the two belong together in the same deck, and I can't help but completely agree. Goblin Rabblemaster is a format warping threat that demands to be answered if your opponent wishes to live beyond the next couple of turns. Together, Knuckleblade and Rabblemaster threaten to end the game if they live long enough, and they become significantly harder to deal with the longer they stay alive. Both cards should immediately put your opponent in a defensive position, and if you can keep applying pressure you should be able to easily overwhelm them.
Another card that I expect to put in a lot of work for these Temur decks is Keranos, God of Storms. If we're to evaluate the god cards based on what they manage to do while inactive, then I think Keranos is easily one of the best (if not, the best) gods to come out of Theros. Though he's awful from behind, he's great at breaking parity and sealing a win when we're already ahead. Certain decks simply won't be able to answer Keranos, and once he hits the board he doesn't need any extra support in order to generate value.
I truly believe that these three cards belong together in some sort of configuration, as they all lend themselves to similar strategies and they all can potentially win games on their own.
This is a very rough idea of what a more control oriented deck could look like. The idea is to use burn spells as a means to interact with the opponent early on, and then drop one of our threats with counterspell backup. All of the creatures pose a huge threat and can easily steal games on an empty board. Both planeswalkers have ways of controlling the opponent's threats, while also generating card advantage (Kiora) or advancing our win condition (Sarkhan) if left unchecked. If the board state gets too unmanageable, burn spells can give us extra reach with Crater's Claws becoming a viable win condition when the game drags on too long.
Now this is a more "tempo" oriented build that arose out of an attempt to emulate what the Jeskai tempo/burn deck is doing. Though I'm not sure if they're powerful enough for standard, Force Away, Crippling Chill, and Icy Blast could all become roleplayers in the right context.
This list shoots for a lower curve, with more of an aggressive start and a focus on Knuckleblade/Rabblemaster as the primary win conditions. Heir of the Wilds is a very good card in a format where midrange decks dominate by putting up brickwalls that hose aggro decks. Icefeather Aven is an underrated card that has the potential to be a good tempo play if morphed (bounce creature + hasty 2/2 flier) or provide some early damage if we have nothing else to do on turn 2. He also enables us to play mindgames with Sagu Mauler. Mauler is extremely difficult for any deck focused on spot removal to deal with, as he pretty much needs to be killed before being flipped.
Temur Charm seems poor in a straight-up control build when compared to Dissolve, but it seems pretty nice in a tempo build. Also, Mindswipe is a real card, especially in a format where people are tapping out to play huge bombs on turns 3/4/5. Early on, it's a counterspell that might shock the opponent. Later on, it's a crippling way to trump an opponent's out/win condition while also threatening to kill them.
Let me know what you all think. Suggestions and criticisms are welcome.
Nope, I totally forgot about that guy. He's a good one, for sure.
I think my issue is that I want my higher-end threats to impose a fast clock on the opponent. Aggressive threats with removal and counterspell backup to seal the game is how I envision things panning out.
Prognostic Sphinx might be too slow. It's a good one, but it doesn't exactly win quickly.
I like Stormbreath Dragon, but is it worth running if I already have Sarkhan in the deck?
I'm not sure about Sagu Mauler anymore. It doesn't exactly come down and win me the game. I'd rather run something that is harder to block (a flier) and/or something with haste.
Scuttling Doom Engine might be what I'm looking for. It has pseudo-evasion and can threaten to blow up and end the game. I'm just not sure if it's fast enough.
From the moment you have Sarkhan, I'd say Stormbreath becomes obsolete. You cant have both in the battlefield (not and tick up Sarkhan) and he's got faster removal. I'd give doom engine a try. You can always blow it up to get the damage through. Another option I've been wanting to test is Riverwheel Aerialists. They aren't hexproof but they are tough, can deal lots of damage and have flying.
From the moment you have Sarkhan, I'd say Stormbreath becomes obsolete. You cant have both in the battlefield (not and tick up Sarkhan) and he's got faster removal. I'd give doom engine a try. You can always blow it up to get the damage through. Another option I've been wanting to test is Riverwheel Aerialists. They aren't hexproof but they are tough, can deal lots of damage and have flying.
I don't like the idea of paying 6 for a 4/5 flier that sometimes becomes a 5/6, especially when I have access to Polukranos, Sagu Mauler, Prognostic Sphinx, Stormbreath Dragon, and a bunch of other things.
From the moment you have Sarkhan, I'd say Stormbreath becomes obsolete. You cant have both in the battlefield (not and tick up Sarkhan) and he's got faster removal. I'd give doom engine a try. You can always blow it up to get the damage through. Another option I've been wanting to test is Riverwheel Aerialists. They aren't hexproof but they are tough, can deal lots of damage and have flying.
Why can't you attack with both Stormbreath and Sarkhan - no legend overlap between them that I can see?
I think the point is that I could use those 2 slots freed up by not using Stormbreath to diversify my threats.
Besides that, Sarkhan's ability says he becomes a red legendary Dragon creature. And Stormbreath is a Dragon so I think if you have both and you tick sarkhan up one will have to go to the graveyard. That is my understanding of the rule anyway.
About the aerialists, yeah 6 mana is a lot. The turn they swing for 4-5, a stormbreath swings for 8. Still, its something I would like to test. It might be terrible but you don't know until you try.
Been playing around with a version of Temur control myself.
A few observations from FNM.
I played a ramp Temur to drop big creatures early and use control to protect the Knuckleblade & Polukranos & Stormbreath. Getting out a T3/T4 one of these and protecting it lead to quite a few wins.
Sarkan vs Stormbreath was inconclusive. Sarkan was great attacking but vulnerable to return attack. Stormbreath had potential of monsterous which was huge and protection from white matters with all the wedge spells.
Sylvan Caryatid is huge. It's hexproof and at 3 toughness, it can be a blocker. Also, the ability to tap for whatever color mana is sneaky good.
Stubborn Denial was a great counter spell usually cheap. Temur Charm held value with both its first two abilities. A monsterous Polukranos or Stormbreath worked as removal when fighting. Having a counter for that big creature you know is coming is also great. Mindswipe is a card I'm hopeful of but didn't get a chance to play it. The burn on backside could be huge. Crater's Claws was a 2 of and wish I had more. Shock for 2 to Goblin, cast for 7 to take out monsterous stormbreath and a pile straight to the face were all great uses of it.
With Mindswipe and Crater's Claws I used Xenagos planeswalker to go for some huge ramp plays at times.
Also snuck in a single copy of Villainous Wealth utilizing two Mana Confluence with the Caryatid. It was always a blowout late game when you could flip their own deck against them.
Finding the right balance on mana was a challenge. You don't need blue before T4~ but then you have to have it. Going to add another Confluence. Also having untapped T1 G for mystic is the difference between an OK hand and great start.
General Comments on Deck
Obviously, this deck is focused around Whelming Wave.
Omenspeaker seems really good here as it smooths out draws, fixes mana (can not be understated how valuable this feels), can block rabblemaster tokens (and other x/1s), bounce off of Courser of Kruphix, and generally be used to chump block. Also, if it is still around after a Whelming Wave, then it can be reused.
Sylvan Caryatid isn't great with Whelming Wave, but the acceleration, fixing, and blocking all seem crucial in this deck. They can also be discarded to Prognostic Sphinx late game.
Savage Knuckleblade is good no matter the game state, and his haste is particularly valuable in this deck.
The planewalker package loves the mass bounce spells, with Kiora and Jace keeping the opponent from re-establishing their board efficiently. Their ultimates should also be realistically attainable in this deck.
The two gods provide value throughout a long game and most likely won't ever get bounced by Whelming Wave. I also particularly love making Savage Knuckleblade unblockable.
Two copies of Dig Through Time feels just about right to keep the important cards coming. Jace and Prognostic Sphinx help speed up the delve just enough I think (I had been testing Satyr Wayfinder earlier, but it is just much less powerful than Caryatid; your opinions greatly appreciated).
Finally, I can not stress enough that this is all theory-crafting up to this point.
My Opinions on Other Card Choices/Directions Sagu Mauler: I love this card, but I don't think he belongs in a control list so much as he belongs in a midrange list with control elements. I prefer the sphinx because:
1. It can block Mantis Rider, Stormbreath Dragon/Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, and other flyers with less than five power.
2. Its scry 3 is huge in a control deck
3. It dodges Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Crackling Doom sometimes
4. I think that flying is better evasion than trample right now
5. Five is less than six and I would never be morphing Sagu Mauler in this list
Nissa, Worldwaker: She is absolutely in the sideboard, but is too much of a risk mainboard. She's too slow against aggro, is weak to Jeskai Tempo, and doesn't have enough forests to actually ramp. Great against controlish decks through.
Anger of the Gods: It may end up in the sideboard, but right now I don't think it fits. What it kills also happens consist of a lot of creatures that are terrible when they have to be recast after Whelming Wave. It is also bad with both Syvlan Caryatid and Omenspeaker. In other words, with a mass bounce spell at four I don't think I want it, but if you don't want to use Whelming Wave, then it seems very necessary.
Goblin Rabblemaster: If you are viewing this deck as Tempo Temur, then he's fantastic, but I don't think he belongs in a more control oriented deck, particularly if you plan on running Whelming Wave or Anger of the Gods. I think that Savage Knuckleblade is much more suited to this role.
Hour of Need: I hadn't thought about this card until I just read another Temur decklist, but it may be a great one-of. My deck has eight dorks I'm happy to turn into real threats at end of turn. Also, if my opponent has a couple of creature I really want gone for good, I can Hour of Need at end of turn, then Whelming Wave away the tokens. May be worth trying out...
Final Thoughts
I hope I haven't completely derailed the intention of this thread as my deck is clearly more control and less tempo based. I'm honestly not looking to make a tempo deck as my gut is telling me that we won't be able to play the tempo game with green as well as Jeskai can with white. Mantis Rider and Seeker of the Way are both perfect tempo cards that I don't think we can replicate. I do think that we have access to more powerful cards though.
I think the flying creature you're looking for is Ashcloud Phoenix.
People seem to be forgetting that this card exists, but it is an excellent blocker, hard to kill, and an evasive threat that can close games faster than Prognostic Sphinx. I've been playing 3 in my Temur list and I wouldn't consider playing any fewer than 2 of them.
Edit: I take it back, OP mentioned Ashcloud might be a sleeper. I'm telling you right now, Ashcloud is the truth. Play it, you'll see.
Changes made to the OP in an attempt to show the two directions I'm thinking of taking this deck in and to also show that I haven't abandoned the thread. I'm still very interested in making this deck work. The ideas in the OP are merely the most basic approaches to the archetype, and I plan on updating it/refining it when I find more time and as more of the kinks are worked out. I'm just laying the groundwork here.
Update after a local tournament
While I did finish 4-1 at my local tournament, I do have to admit Whelming Wave is underwhelming. It was genuinely good against green devotion and tokens, but it is as bad of a card as most people assume it to be. My opponent can generally just recast his stuff, and while I've dictated the tempo of the game, ultimately, my being a card down is too significant to overcome. The times it did work with Kiora were great though and I can see it as a two-of in the sideboard, but nothing more. That said, since we lack a sweeper other than Anger of the Gods, which I would prefer to not run as it is bad with my two drops, it is probably correct to run some number of Ætherspouts in the 75. The biggest problem this deck had for me was when my opponent simply had too many threats on board and I couldn't protect my planeswalkers/my life total.
Lightning Strike was great all day and it should be a three-of or a four-of. It has lots of important targets and is very flexible (not that this is really news to anyone.)
The other really important takeaway for me from last night is that this deck needs some form of life gain. It is going to necessarily be running some number of pain lands and fetchlands and this deck simply can't afford to only be going one direction with its life total. I want to be playing a longer game, so I need to stabilize. My first thought was to fit in Courser of Kruphix, but (a) I really didn't want to stretch the mana further, and (b) it's really awkward to have the top of your library revealed in a deck like this. Then it hit me last night, the card I was missing was Horizon Chimera. The deck even has a few draw engines to speed up the life gain, the flash is excellent in this deck, and the flying should come in handy when I need to pressure planeswalkers. I can't wait to test it out!
The final thing I will say is that I think this deck will be a lot better with Polymorphist's Jest in the sideboard. I don't have a lot of ways of dealing with big creatures and I have even fewer ways to come back from a Hornet Queen. Again, I can't wait to test it out! Oh, and I can't forget, Circle of Flame really is an awesome sideboard card and I really can't wait for the first time I combine it with Jest.
I loved playing this deck. All the burn to keep low end threats and aggro at bay while I move up to my beaters and protect them with counters. More than once i lived the dream of a turn 4 Savage Knuckleblade with Stubborn Denial as backup for a minor blowout.
Polukranos, World Eater at 3 felt right, rarely was I going to lose a threat outside of battle and his legendary stops him from being a 4.
Ashcloud Phoenix was tech that I wanted to try out. I wasn't upset with him, he won me 2 games by morphing and being a threat that they couldnt take care of. I will leave him in for now until I get more results.
Stormbreath Dragon is just a good all around card, no complaints here about him, might want to up the count to 3.
Surrak Dragonclaw was another tryout card that I was happy about. I'll explain more later.
Temur Charm Disdainful Stroke Stubborn Denial were all card that were all-stars, the charm is extra removal that I used once, while the Mana Leak mode was amazing. Stroke was great that I didn't care about small threats but when it came to big threats, it did what it needed to do, it stopped a turn 4 Genesis Hydra for 9. Denial is good without ferocious but I never cast it as a daze, always as a 1cmc negate, such a great card.
AEtherspouts was a swing spot that I wanted to try out, will try out Icy Blast in its spot.
Kiora, the Crashing Wave won me 2 games, it's great in that I can draw cards and stop massive treats. Three is a good number for now, might go down to two to try other cards but no less.
Overview:
It felt great leaving mana up and making people nervous, making them play around counters is the best thing you can be doing when you have a 4/4 crashing in every turn. Don't just jam your creatures out was key to playing this deck.
Other cards:
I do want to try out some sort of card draw, top deck mode sucks. Maybe Dig Through Time or Steam Augury
Needs:
Can someone point me in the right direction to clean the board? I lost bad to a Mono Green deck, what hurts them? I thought Anger of the Gods would delay them but when I'm looking at a bunch of 4+ toughness creatures, i felt like it was over. Aetherspouts didn't help much because he would swing in with everything plus he got to recast all his value creatures. Maybe more counters against them? someone please help!
PS. How do you write the AE so i can properly tag the cards?
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MTG is a hobby, cant afford it? GTFO! Don't complain about prices.
Can someone point me in the right direction to clean the board?
There are three options I'm currently working on, but they are likely too blue heavy for your build.
Polymorphist's Jest: I will be trying this out tonight at my LGS and I think it could work for you too. It deals with some really hard to deal with threats (like a monstrous Fleecemane Lion and Hornets) and with your little burn spells and fighting it doesn't even require that you pull the creatures into combat.
Whelming Wave: Yes, I did admit that this card is bad recently, but it does provide a very powerful effect, particularly when backed up by countermagic or a Kiora. It also can reset monstrous and with all of the hast creatures that you run it may not set you as far back as your opponent. Only powerful in certain matchups, but when it's good you'll be happy you had it.
Curse of the Swine: This is another one I've yet to get any testing in with yet, but it seems quite powerful right now. 2/2's really are quite manageable with our creature base (I especially love how well Sylvan Caryatid and Omenspeaker can block them (or in some cases turning 0 or 1 power creatures into pigs is nice)).
At this point I want to again check in with the OP as I'm afraid that I may be distracting from the types of decks that she had in mind. If you would like I can take my controlling opinions to another thread.
For a while now I've been working on an approach to Temur that is more focused on tempo/control aspects as opposed to a midrange beatdown strategy. Even though it may be more intuitive to approach Temur as a natural progression from the R/G creature decks of RTR/THS standard, I believe that the pieces given to us in KTK suggests that if there is a successful Temur deck to be made, it'll be some sort of aggressive control deck. Is such a deck viable? I have no idea. I think there might be something here, but with the meta being undefined and with so many different brews popping up everyday, it's hard to say what we're up against or if we even have the pieces to fight whatever strategies end up dominating standard.
Simply put, this is not a project for the Timmys. If your preferred playstyle is "play big thing; turn big thing sideways", then I think you're better off satying in mono-green or R/G. The blue splash for Savage Knuckleblade just doesn't seem worth it unless you're willing take advantage of the control options that blue affords you (even though these options may be severely limited at the moment).
With that being said, I'll offer up two of the builds that I've been working on over the past few weeks. For the time being, I'll omit mana bases. The reasons being A) These decks seem to be very mana intensive and susceptible to losing if they stumble even once on a land drop, and B) I'm awful at developing mana bases.
Hopefully the ideas in this thread spark discussion and inspire people to try out their own brews. I'm excited by the idea of a truly aggressive control styled deck existing in standard again, and would love to see this work.
Like many others, Savage Knuckleblade immediately captured my imagination when it was spoiled. It's a huge beater that stays relevant at all point of the game. What's most interesting about this card is the fact that all three of its modes are conducive to a more controlling strategy. With enough mana he has a pseudo form of evasion (threatening to pump will mean our opponent will sometimes have to let it through), a way to punish a defenseless opponent or assassinate unguarded planeswalkers (by giving it haste), and the ability to blank removal spells and survive sweepers.
The card that I think best compliments Knuckleblade is Goblin Rabblemaster. Several professional players have already suggested that the two belong together in the same deck, and I can't help but completely agree. Goblin Rabblemaster is a format warping threat that demands to be answered if your opponent wishes to live beyond the next couple of turns. Together, Knuckleblade and Rabblemaster threaten to end the game if they live long enough, and they become significantly harder to deal with the longer they stay alive. Both cards should immediately put your opponent in a defensive position, and if you can keep applying pressure you should be able to easily overwhelm them.
Another card that I expect to put in a lot of work for these Temur decks is Keranos, God of Storms. If we're to evaluate the god cards based on what they manage to do while inactive, then I think Keranos is easily one of the best (if not, the best) gods to come out of Theros. Though he's awful from behind, he's great at breaking parity and sealing a win when we're already ahead. Certain decks simply won't be able to answer Keranos, and once he hits the board he doesn't need any extra support in order to generate value.
I truly believe that these three cards belong together in some sort of configuration, as they all lend themselves to similar strategies and they all can potentially win games on their own.
1x Dig Through Time
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Dissolve
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Keranos, God of Storms
2x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4x Lightning Strike
3x Magma Jet
2x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Ashcloud Phoenix
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4x Savage Knuckleblade
2x Steam Augury
2x Stubborn Denial
This is a very rough idea of what a more control oriented deck could look like. The idea is to use burn spells as a means to interact with the opponent early on, and then drop one of our threats with counterspell backup. All of the creatures pose a huge threat and can easily steal games on an empty board. Both planeswalkers have ways of controlling the opponent's threats, while also generating card advantage (Kiora) or advancing our win condition (Sarkhan) if left unchecked. If the board state gets too unmanageable, burn spells can give us extra reach with Crater's Claws becoming a viable win condition when the game drags on too long.
1x Dig Through Time
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
4x Heir of the Wilds
2x Icefeather Aven
2x Sagu Mauler
1x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
4x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
2x Mindswipe
1x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4x Savage Knuckleblade
2x Steam Augury
4x Temur Charm
Now this is a more "tempo" oriented build that arose out of an attempt to emulate what the Jeskai tempo/burn deck is doing. Though I'm not sure if they're powerful enough for standard, Force Away, Crippling Chill, and Icy Blast could all become roleplayers in the right context.
This list shoots for a lower curve, with more of an aggressive start and a focus on Knuckleblade/Rabblemaster as the primary win conditions. Heir of the Wilds is a very good card in a format where midrange decks dominate by putting up brickwalls that hose aggro decks.
Icefeather Aven is an underrated card that has the potential to be a good tempo play if morphed (bounce creature + hasty 2/2 flier) or provide some early damage if we have nothing else to do on turn 2. He also enables us to play mindgames with Sagu Mauler. Mauler is extremely difficult for any deck focused on spot removal to deal with, as he pretty much needs to be killed before being flipped.
Temur Charm seems poor in a straight-up control build when compared to Dissolve, but it seems pretty nice in a tempo build. Also, Mindswipe is a real card, especially in a format where people are tapping out to play huge bombs on turns 3/4/5. Early on, it's a counterspell that might shock the opponent. Later on, it's a crippling way to trump an opponent's out/win condition while also threatening to kill them.
Let me know what you all think. Suggestions and criticisms are welcome.
U/R Delver
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
Nope, I totally forgot about that guy. He's a good one, for sure.
I think my issue is that I want my higher-end threats to impose a fast clock on the opponent. Aggressive threats with removal and counterspell backup to seal the game is how I envision things panning out.
Prognostic Sphinx might be too slow. It's a good one, but it doesn't exactly win quickly.
I like Stormbreath Dragon, but is it worth running if I already have Sarkhan in the deck?
I'm not sure about Sagu Mauler anymore. It doesn't exactly come down and win me the game. I'd rather run something that is harder to block (a flier) and/or something with haste.
Scuttling Doom Engine might be what I'm looking for. It has pseudo-evasion and can threaten to blow up and end the game. I'm just not sure if it's fast enough.
U/R Delver
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
I don't like the idea of paying 6 for a 4/5 flier that sometimes becomes a 5/6, especially when I have access to Polukranos, Sagu Mauler, Prognostic Sphinx, Stormbreath Dragon, and a bunch of other things.
I think the point is that I could use those 2 slots freed up by not using Stormbreath to diversify my threats.
U/R Delver
About the aerialists, yeah 6 mana is a lot. The turn they swing for 4-5, a stormbreath swings for 8. Still, its something I would like to test. It might be terrible but you don't know until you try.
UBarrin, Master WizardU
USticher GeralfU
UIxidor, Reality SculptorU
UWNoyan Dar, Roil ShaperUW
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Sagu Mauler
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Magma Spray
4 Lightning Strike
2 Steam Augury
2 Trap Essence
3 Frontier Bivouac
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Epiphany
4 Yavimaya Coast
2 Shivan Reef
2 Mountain
1 Island
3 Forest
A few observations from FNM.
I played a ramp Temur to drop big creatures early and use control to protect the Knuckleblade & Polukranos & Stormbreath. Getting out a T3/T4 one of these and protecting it lead to quite a few wins.
Sarkan vs Stormbreath was inconclusive. Sarkan was great attacking but vulnerable to return attack. Stormbreath had potential of monsterous which was huge and protection from white matters with all the wedge spells.
Sylvan Caryatid is huge. It's hexproof and at 3 toughness, it can be a blocker. Also, the ability to tap for whatever color mana is sneaky good.
Stubborn Denial was a great counter spell usually cheap.
Temur Charm held value with both its first two abilities. A monsterous Polukranos or Stormbreath worked as removal when fighting. Having a counter for that big creature you know is coming is also great.
Mindswipe is a card I'm hopeful of but didn't get a chance to play it. The burn on backside could be huge.
Crater's Claws was a 2 of and wish I had more. Shock for 2 to Goblin, cast for 7 to take out monsterous stormbreath and a pile straight to the face were all great uses of it.
With Mindswipe and Crater's Claws I used Xenagos planeswalker to go for some huge ramp plays at times.
Also snuck in a single copy of Villainous Wealth utilizing two Mana Confluence with the Caryatid. It was always a blowout late game when you could flip their own deck against them.
Finding the right balance on mana was a challenge. You don't need blue before T4~ but then you have to have it. Going to add another Confluence. Also having untapped T1 G for mystic is the difference between an OK hand and great start.
4 Omenspeaker
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
2 Prognostic Sphinx
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Planeswalkers (7)
4 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Temur Charm
2 Dissolve
4 Whelming Wave
2 Dig Through Time
2 Lightning Strike
Land (24)
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Temple of Epiphany
2 Yavimaya Coast
3 Shivian Reef
2 Frontier Bivouac
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Island
General Comments on Deck
Obviously, this deck is focused around Whelming Wave.
Omenspeaker seems really good here as it smooths out draws, fixes mana (can not be understated how valuable this feels), can block rabblemaster tokens (and other x/1s), bounce off of Courser of Kruphix, and generally be used to chump block. Also, if it is still around after a Whelming Wave, then it can be reused.
Sylvan Caryatid isn't great with Whelming Wave, but the acceleration, fixing, and blocking all seem crucial in this deck. They can also be discarded to Prognostic Sphinx late game.
Savage Knuckleblade is good no matter the game state, and his haste is particularly valuable in this deck.
The planewalker package loves the mass bounce spells, with Kiora and Jace keeping the opponent from re-establishing their board efficiently. Their ultimates should also be realistically attainable in this deck.
The two gods provide value throughout a long game and most likely won't ever get bounced by Whelming Wave. I also particularly love making Savage Knuckleblade unblockable.
Two copies of Dig Through Time feels just about right to keep the important cards coming. Jace and Prognostic Sphinx help speed up the delve just enough I think (I had been testing Satyr Wayfinder earlier, but it is just much less powerful than Caryatid; your opinions greatly appreciated).
Finally, I can not stress enough that this is all theory-crafting up to this point.
My Opinions on Other Card Choices/Directions
Sagu Mauler: I love this card, but I don't think he belongs in a control list so much as he belongs in a midrange list with control elements. I prefer the sphinx because:
1. It can block Mantis Rider, Stormbreath Dragon/Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker, and other flyers with less than five power.
2. Its scry 3 is huge in a control deck
3. It dodges Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Crackling Doom sometimes
4. I think that flying is better evasion than trample right now
5. Five is less than six and I would never be morphing Sagu Mauler in this list
Nissa, Worldwaker: She is absolutely in the sideboard, but is too much of a risk mainboard. She's too slow against aggro, is weak to Jeskai Tempo, and doesn't have enough forests to actually ramp. Great against controlish decks through.
Anger of the Gods: It may end up in the sideboard, but right now I don't think it fits. What it kills also happens consist of a lot of creatures that are terrible when they have to be recast after Whelming Wave. It is also bad with both Syvlan Caryatid and Omenspeaker. In other words, with a mass bounce spell at four I don't think I want it, but if you don't want to use Whelming Wave, then it seems very necessary.
Goblin Rabblemaster: If you are viewing this deck as Tempo Temur, then he's fantastic, but I don't think he belongs in a more control oriented deck, particularly if you plan on running Whelming Wave or Anger of the Gods. I think that Savage Knuckleblade is much more suited to this role.
Hour of Need: I hadn't thought about this card until I just read another Temur decklist, but it may be a great one-of. My deck has eight dorks I'm happy to turn into real threats at end of turn. Also, if my opponent has a couple of creature I really want gone for good, I can Hour of Need at end of turn, then Whelming Wave away the tokens. May be worth trying out...
Final Thoughts
I hope I haven't completely derailed the intention of this thread as my deck is clearly more control and less tempo based. I'm honestly not looking to make a tempo deck as my gut is telling me that we won't be able to play the tempo game with green as well as Jeskai can with white. Mantis Rider and Seeker of the Way are both perfect tempo cards that I don't think we can replicate. I do think that we have access to more powerful cards though.
I'm also trying out a Temur Tempo style list.
I think the flying creature you're looking for is Ashcloud Phoenix.
People seem to be forgetting that this card exists, but it is an excellent blocker, hard to kill, and an evasive threat that can close games faster than Prognostic Sphinx. I've been playing 3 in my Temur list and I wouldn't consider playing any fewer than 2 of them.
Edit: I take it back, OP mentioned Ashcloud might be a sleeper. I'm telling you right now, Ashcloud is the truth. Play it, you'll see.
U/R Delver
While I did finish 4-1 at my local tournament, I do have to admit Whelming Wave is underwhelming. It was genuinely good against green devotion and tokens, but it is as bad of a card as most people assume it to be. My opponent can generally just recast his stuff, and while I've dictated the tempo of the game, ultimately, my being a card down is too significant to overcome. The times it did work with Kiora were great though and I can see it as a two-of in the sideboard, but nothing more. That said, since we lack a sweeper other than Anger of the Gods, which I would prefer to not run as it is bad with my two drops, it is probably correct to run some number of Ætherspouts in the 75. The biggest problem this deck had for me was when my opponent simply had too many threats on board and I couldn't protect my planeswalkers/my life total.
Lightning Strike was great all day and it should be a three-of or a four-of. It has lots of important targets and is very flexible (not that this is really news to anyone.)
The other really important takeaway for me from last night is that this deck needs some form of life gain. It is going to necessarily be running some number of pain lands and fetchlands and this deck simply can't afford to only be going one direction with its life total. I want to be playing a longer game, so I need to stabilize. My first thought was to fit in Courser of Kruphix, but (a) I really didn't want to stretch the mana further, and (b) it's really awkward to have the top of your library revealed in a deck like this. Then it hit me last night, the card I was missing was Horizon Chimera. The deck even has a few draw engines to speed up the life gain, the flash is excellent in this deck, and the flying should come in handy when I need to pressure planeswalkers. I can't wait to test it out!
The final thing I will say is that I think this deck will be a lot better with Polymorphist's Jest in the sideboard. I don't have a lot of ways of dealing with big creatures and I have even fewer ways to come back from a Hornet Queen. Again, I can't wait to test it out! Oh, and I can't forget, Circle of Flame really is an awesome sideboard card and I really can't wait for the first time I combine it with Jest.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Savage Knuckleblade
3 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
Spells
4 Lightning Strike
3 Magma Jet
3 Temur Charm
3 Disdainful Stroke
3 Stubborn Denial
1 AEtherspouts
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Lands
3 Frontier Bivouac
3 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Mystery
2 Temple of Epiphany
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Yavimaya Coast
3 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Island
I loved playing this deck. All the burn to keep low end threats and aggro at bay while I move up to my beaters and protect them with counters. More than once i lived the dream of a turn 4 Savage Knuckleblade with Stubborn Denial as backup for a minor blowout.
Sylvan Caryatid and Savage Knuckleblade are a mandatory 4 of.
Polukranos, World Eater at 3 felt right, rarely was I going to lose a threat outside of battle and his legendary stops him from being a 4.
Ashcloud Phoenix was tech that I wanted to try out. I wasn't upset with him, he won me 2 games by morphing and being a threat that they couldnt take care of. I will leave him in for now until I get more results.
Stormbreath Dragon is just a good all around card, no complaints here about him, might want to up the count to 3.
Surrak Dragonclaw was another tryout card that I was happy about. I'll explain more later.
Temur Charm Disdainful Stroke Stubborn Denial were all card that were all-stars, the charm is extra removal that I used once, while the Mana Leak mode was amazing. Stroke was great that I didn't care about small threats but when it came to big threats, it did what it needed to do, it stopped a turn 4 Genesis Hydra for 9. Denial is good without ferocious but I never cast it as a daze, always as a 1cmc negate, such a great card.
AEtherspouts was a swing spot that I wanted to try out, will try out Icy Blast in its spot.
Kiora, the Crashing Wave won me 2 games, it's great in that I can draw cards and stop massive treats. Three is a good number for now, might go down to two to try other cards but no less.
Overview:
It felt great leaving mana up and making people nervous, making them play around counters is the best thing you can be doing when you have a 4/4 crashing in every turn. Don't just jam your creatures out was key to playing this deck.
Other cards:
I do want to try out some sort of card draw, top deck mode sucks. Maybe Dig Through Time or Steam Augury
Needs:
Can someone point me in the right direction to clean the board? I lost bad to a Mono Green deck, what hurts them? I thought Anger of the Gods would delay them but when I'm looking at a bunch of 4+ toughness creatures, i felt like it was over. Aetherspouts didn't help much because he would swing in with everything plus he got to recast all his value creatures. Maybe more counters against them? someone please help!
PS. How do you write the AE so i can properly tag the cards?
There are three options I'm currently working on, but they are likely too blue heavy for your build.
Polymorphist's Jest: I will be trying this out tonight at my LGS and I think it could work for you too. It deals with some really hard to deal with threats (like a monstrous Fleecemane Lion and Hornets) and with your little burn spells and fighting it doesn't even require that you pull the creatures into combat.
Whelming Wave: Yes, I did admit that this card is bad recently, but it does provide a very powerful effect, particularly when backed up by countermagic or a Kiora. It also can reset monstrous and with all of the hast creatures that you run it may not set you as far back as your opponent. Only powerful in certain matchups, but when it's good you'll be happy you had it.
Curse of the Swine: This is another one I've yet to get any testing in with yet, but it seems quite powerful right now. 2/2's really are quite manageable with our creature base (I especially love how well Sylvan Caryatid and Omenspeaker can block them (or in some cases turning 0 or 1 power creatures into pigs is nice)).
At this point I want to again check in with the OP as I'm afraid that I may be distracting from the types of decks that she had in mind. If you would like I can take my controlling opinions to another thread.