Elvish Mystic is as much of a dead draw later as Caryatid is but more importantly than simply ramping, they add to your creature count which makes Sidisi a more consistent threat.
Granted I have a more top heavy curve playing the 4C variant so there's more 4+'s to ramp into but even then I think Seibold had the right idea in maxing out on Whips and Hornet Queen and simply going over these Midrange lists.
Could you post your 4C list? I'm also playing one, and it seems very consistent (although I didn't play with Jeskai enough to get a conclusion) I'm very curious about how to handle the mana base...
Some of the numbers might look weird, but I was interested in trying some cards out, and I was unable to find Soul of Innistrad before the event. I wasn't super impressed with Rakshasa Deathdealer, but I can see why some people like it. It's a potentially resilient creature that restrains your mana quite a bit if you want it to be resilient. I'm not sure I want to hinder my own development that much in this deck, as I would much rather be casting Sidisis and Necropolis Fiends than messing around with this card. It's certainly very powerful, I just don't really like it in this deck yet.
I added the Elvish Mystics back in because I found myself falling behind too much in game 1s, where decks are hyper focused on their strategy. I find myself boarding them out a lot against other midrange and control strategies, where games 2 and 3 slow down a lot and they end up just getting swept up in a Drown in Sorrow. I don't think I want 3, but I'm pretty sure the deck wants more than 4 mana dorks total to be able to consistently have one in order to keep up. I'll probably try 1 or 2 next time.
I really should have played the fourth Courser of Kruphix. His ability to keep me drawing into gas was huge.
Pharika, God of Affliction was consistently insane all night. Landing her and making just 1-2 tokens completely shuts down Abzan's offense (except Rocs), and having her stay around any longer just buries the opponent under your Snakes. I also landed her in the mirror, and was able to completely shut off his Whip of Erebos by removing any relevant targets in response. I might try moving this one to the main (with a second in the side), especially considering how Abzan heavy the meta is right now.
I wasn't super impressed with Doomwake Giant, but that was more a product of the matchups than anything else. A 4/6 for 5 was still fine in most of my games (those are very good stats to have right now), and it's still a great way to catch up against various aggro decks.
I actually really liked having just one Nyx Weaver, and never felt like I wanted more. It was a nice Whip target to occasionally be able to get something super important in a matchup (like Pharika), and it is reasonable when you draw it too. I feel like the main difference between Courser of Kruphix and Nyx Weaver in the 3 drop slot is that Courser is better when you don't have gas yet, and Nyx Weaver is better when you have plenty of gas already, as it makes your Whips and Delve spells better.
Anyways, that's all my thoughts for the day, will try the following changes to the maindeck next time:
Also, I played with this deck for the first time at FNM, I noticed two things: the matches were extremely 'grindy'. My creatures lack evasion, but the lifelink with Whip would bloat my life total to 50+ some games, I had trouble finishing off the opponent (and milled myself one game), went to time 2 matches (winning one and tieing one).
Secondly, I had trouble with flyers -- notably Mantis Rider. I got destroyed by Jeskai Burn before Whip could come down while also have creatures on board from which to gain life. (I don't play Nyx Weaver, I've found them to be slow) So I am thinking Herald of Torment is an answer to both Mantis Rider and bestowing to create a strong finisher.
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"I have seen the true path. I will not warm myself by the fire—I will become the flame."
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
I had some mana issues over the course of the night. The deck was largely thrown together last minute though. The biggest problem I had, was wanting cards off my SB but not knowing what to cut for them. Here's my match results.
Round 1 - BW Lifegain W 2-1
Round 2 - GR Monsters L 0-2
Round 3 - Mono B Aggro W 2-0
Round 4 - UB Control W 2-1
Round 5 - Jeskai Tempo W 2-0
Top 8 - Abzan Midrange L 1-2
I punted the 2nd game of my top 8 match keeping a 1 land hand at 6. I had mana issues against the Monsters deck. I really enjoyed playing this deck and will probably continue with it going forward. I'm gonna work the mana base a bit better, and I may change the creature base some. I really feel like Jeskai lists just fold to this deck and that's most prevalent in my meta currently. I'm open to any suggestions, especially sideboard tips.
First of all , he has reach , second , he feed your graveyard , and third and the most important part you guys are seeing to forget , is his ability to give you a card back from you graveyard.This is incredibly powerful and can save your game plan .
So I just won Game Day with Sultai Reanimator and I wanted to post up my deck so that others may be like "yeah, that works I guess", and it kinda does!
Not the type of deck people are running right now. That is one of the big questions, is delve or nighthowler stronger?
IMO nighthowler needed his two best friends, Jarad and Lotleth troll. Now that those 2 are gone I'm not sure it can be done anymore. You can give something +x/+x and turn anything into a huge threat... then what? We don't have a cheap trampler, and we can't use jarad to push damage. Nighthowler is just asking to be chump-blocked.
I wish we could make it work, but I'm betting on delve for now.
Not the type of deck people are running right now. That is one of the big questions, is delve or nighthowler stronger?
IMO nighthowler needed his two best friends, Jarad and Lotleth troll. Now that those 2 are gone I'm not sure it can be done anymore. You can give something +x/+x and turn anything into a huge threat... then what? We don't have a cheap trampler, and we can't use jarad to push damage. Nighthowler is just asking to be chump-blocked.
I wish we could make it work, but I'm betting on delve for now.
Don't get me wrong, I am not playing him. You can build a deck where he works though. Sagu Mauler and Herald of Torment would be in the deck for sure. I am picturing a much more aggro version that I am not even sure would play whip. Bloodsoaked champions and what not.
I do think that version is worse, but there could be something there.
Sidisi Whip , in a world of Jeskai and Abzan , is probably the best choice at time. When there's no Control deck floating around, it might be a Top 8 deck.
Whip is one of if not your best card in the control MU too. The same reason it is good against Abzan also applies in the control MU, it simply allows you to out attrition them at their own game.
Whip is just fantastically positioned atm in general.
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Not the type of deck people are running right now. That is one of the big questions, is delve or nighthowler stronger?
IMO nighthowler needed his two best friends, Jarad and Lotleth troll. Now that those 2 are gone I'm not sure it can be done anymore. You can give something +x/+x and turn anything into a huge threat... then what? We don't have a cheap trampler, and we can't use jarad to push damage. Nighthowler is just asking to be chump-blocked.
I wish we could make it work, but I'm betting on delve for now.
What about Nylea in there? I know it's been mentioned before. Or Hooting Mandrills? T1 Mystic, T2 Wayfinder, T3 this? T4 Sidisi. Roll.
Hooting Mandrills is less than stellar against a field where the most played burn spell does 4 and all the midrange lists are playing x/5's
Nylea I like more but has always felt underwhelming unless you specifically combined her Nighthowlers or Strength of the Fallen triggers. If its evasion you're looking for, Herald of Torment just seems the more consistently powerful card.
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Im using 2 Bow of nylea and it's being a strong card in my deck. Give back cards to my library , life , deathtouch ( so they think twice blocking sidsi and tokens.)+1+1 , devotion to pharika... IM lovin it
I played a lot yesterday. My opinion on necropolis fiend changed. I used to laugh at the "X card is bad, it dies to removal" arguments, but... When you delve 7 cards to cast a creature only to get it removed instantly, it really hurts. In all my games yesterday, I realized that it would have been better to save those cards for an empty the pits or a murderous cut. For now he's going in the sideboard, only to come back against decks with no/little removal. What do you guys think?
I was also told my deck is "good" but "slow and passive". Is this how you guys play? In a lot of games, if Sidisi was removed, then I was left with... not much. What usually happened is that I sat back with weaver and just waited for a good card to get milled. Then I was back on track. It worked sometimes, our deck offer lots of possibilities and 2-3 times I sacced weaver at the perfect moment for the perfect answer. But most of the time it feels clunky because it can take a turn or two just to get something back. In that time the opponent is free to do whatever he wants. Maybe we need to play more threats?
I played a lot yesterday. My opinion on necropolis fiend changed. I used to laugh at the "X card is bad, it dies to removal" arguments, but... When you delve 7 cards to cast a creature only to get it removed instantly, it really hurts. In all my games yesterday, I realized that it would have been better to save those cards for an empty the pits or a murderous cut. For now he's going in the sideboard, only to come back against decks with no/little removal. What do you guys think?
I was also told my deck is "good" but "slow and passive". Is this how you guys play? In a lot of games, if Sidisi was removed, then I was left with... not much. What usually happened is that I sat back with weaver and just waited for a good card to get milled. Then I was back on track. It worked sometimes, our deck offer lots of possibilities and 2-3 times I sacced weaver at the perfect moment for the perfect answer. But most of the time it feels clunky because it can take a turn or two just to get something back. In that time the opponent is free to do whatever he wants. Maybe we need to play more threats?
The more I've played with him, the more I realize that he should very rarely be a 4/5 flier for BB. The less you delve when you play him, the less it hurts when people remove him and the more fuel you have to use his ability.
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Could you post your 4C list? I'm also playing one, and it seems very consistent (although I didn't play with Jeskai enough to get a conclusion) I'm very curious about how to handle the mana base...
Sultai Walker Control (2-1)
Abzan Midrange (2-1)
Sultai Delve (2-0)
GR Devotion (2-1)
Abzan Control (2-1)
I played the following list:
3 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Necropolis Fiend
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Nyx Weaver
1 Rakshasa Deathdealer
4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
3 Herald of Torment
2 Doomwake Giant
Other (9):
3 Commune with the Gods
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Murderous Cut
2 Hero's Downfall
4 Temple of Malady
4 Opulent Palace
3 Llanowar Wastes
3 Polluted Delta
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Temple of Deceit
2 Swamp
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
2 Thoughtseize
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Empty the Pits
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Sultai Charm
1 Drown in Sorrow
Some of the numbers might look weird, but I was interested in trying some cards out, and I was unable to find Soul of Innistrad before the event. I wasn't super impressed with Rakshasa Deathdealer, but I can see why some people like it. It's a potentially resilient creature that restrains your mana quite a bit if you want it to be resilient. I'm not sure I want to hinder my own development that much in this deck, as I would much rather be casting Sidisis and Necropolis Fiends than messing around with this card. It's certainly very powerful, I just don't really like it in this deck yet.
I added the Elvish Mystics back in because I found myself falling behind too much in game 1s, where decks are hyper focused on their strategy. I find myself boarding them out a lot against other midrange and control strategies, where games 2 and 3 slow down a lot and they end up just getting swept up in a Drown in Sorrow. I don't think I want 3, but I'm pretty sure the deck wants more than 4 mana dorks total to be able to consistently have one in order to keep up. I'll probably try 1 or 2 next time.
I really should have played the fourth Courser of Kruphix. His ability to keep me drawing into gas was huge.
Pharika, God of Affliction was consistently insane all night. Landing her and making just 1-2 tokens completely shuts down Abzan's offense (except Rocs), and having her stay around any longer just buries the opponent under your Snakes. I also landed her in the mirror, and was able to completely shut off his Whip of Erebos by removing any relevant targets in response. I might try moving this one to the main (with a second in the side), especially considering how Abzan heavy the meta is right now.
I wasn't super impressed with Doomwake Giant, but that was more a product of the matchups than anything else. A 4/6 for 5 was still fine in most of my games (those are very good stats to have right now), and it's still a great way to catch up against various aggro decks.
I actually really liked having just one Nyx Weaver, and never felt like I wanted more. It was a nice Whip target to occasionally be able to get something super important in a matchup (like Pharika), and it is reasonable when you draw it too. I feel like the main difference between Courser of Kruphix and Nyx Weaver in the 3 drop slot is that Courser is better when you don't have gas yet, and Nyx Weaver is better when you have plenty of gas already, as it makes your Whips and Delve spells better.
Anyways, that's all my thoughts for the day, will try the following changes to the maindeck next time:
-1 Elvish Mystic
-1 Rakshasa Deathdealer
+1 Pharika, God of Affliction
+1 Courser of Kruphix
Also, I played with this deck for the first time at FNM, I noticed two things: the matches were extremely 'grindy'. My creatures lack evasion, but the lifelink with Whip would bloat my life total to 50+ some games, I had trouble finishing off the opponent (and milled myself one game), went to time 2 matches (winning one and tieing one).
Secondly, I had trouble with flyers -- notably Mantis Rider. I got destroyed by Jeskai Burn before Whip could come down while also have creatures on board from which to gain life. (I don't play Nyx Weaver, I've found them to be slow) So I am thinking Herald of Torment is an answer to both Mantis Rider and bestowing to create a strong finisher.
—Lim-Dûl, the Necromancer
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Sidisi, Blood Tyrant
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Siege Rhino
2 Hornet Queen
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Herald of Torment
1 Sagu Mauler
1 Soul of Innistrad
Spells
3 Whip of Erebos
3 Murderous Cut
2 Commune with the Gods
3 Opulent Palace
2 Sandsteppe Citadel
3 Windswept Heath
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Flooded Strand
3 Thoughtseize
3 Disdainful Stroke
2 Doomwake Giant
2 Sultai Charm
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Hero's Downfall
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
I had some mana issues over the course of the night. The deck was largely thrown together last minute though. The biggest problem I had, was wanting cards off my SB but not knowing what to cut for them. Here's my match results.
Round 1 - BW Lifegain W 2-1
Round 2 - GR Monsters L 0-2
Round 3 - Mono B Aggro W 2-0
Round 4 - UB Control W 2-1
Round 5 - Jeskai Tempo W 2-0
Top 8 - Abzan Midrange L 1-2
I punted the 2nd game of my top 8 match keeping a 1 land hand at 6. I had mana issues against the Monsters deck. I really enjoyed playing this deck and will probably continue with it going forward. I'm gonna work the mana base a bit better, and I may change the creature base some. I really feel like Jeskai lists just fold to this deck and that's most prevalent in my meta currently. I'm open to any suggestions, especially sideboard tips.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/598381-kiki-chord-kiki-company
Bring to Niv
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/814060-bring-to-niv-the-golden-deck
Legacy - Lands
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands
I think you guys miss some of nyx weaver points.
First of all , he has reach , second , he feed your graveyard , and third and the most important part you guys are seeing to forget , is his ability to give you a card back from you graveyard.This is incredibly powerful and can save your game plan .
4 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Prognostic Sphinx
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
3 Sylvan Caryatid
1 courser of kruphix
2 Hornet Queen
3 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
1 Necropolis Fiend
1 Soul of Ravnica
2 Sagu Mauler
2 Nighthowler
3 Nyx Weaver
1 Treasure Cruix
3 Murderous Cut
3 Bile Blight
3 Commune With the Gods
2 Whip of Erebos
Yeah!
Not the type of deck people are running right now. That is one of the big questions, is delve or nighthowler stronger?
IMO nighthowler needed his two best friends, Jarad and Lotleth troll. Now that those 2 are gone I'm not sure it can be done anymore. You can give something +x/+x and turn anything into a huge threat... then what? We don't have a cheap trampler, and we can't use jarad to push damage. Nighthowler is just asking to be chump-blocked.
I wish we could make it work, but I'm betting on delve for now.
Don't get me wrong, I am not playing him. You can build a deck where he works though. Sagu Mauler and Herald of Torment would be in the deck for sure. I am picturing a much more aggro version that I am not even sure would play whip. Bloodsoaked champions and what not.
I do think that version is worse, but there could be something there.
I find it funny brad nelson lost to it r9. The guy cant catch a break with this deck.
Whip is one of if not your best card in the control MU too. The same reason it is good against Abzan also applies in the control MU, it simply allows you to out attrition them at their own game.
Whip is just fantastically positioned atm in general.
It was very similar if not the same
What about Nylea in there? I know it's been mentioned before. Or Hooting Mandrills? T1 Mystic, T2 Wayfinder, T3 this? T4 Sidisi. Roll.
Nylea I like more but has always felt underwhelming unless you specifically combined her Nighthowlers or Strength of the Fallen triggers. If its evasion you're looking for, Herald of Torment just seems the more consistently powerful card.
I don't think Aqueous Form is a very good card as far as constructed is concerned, at least in non heroic builds.
Probably cut a few copies here and there of cards. I think he had Mystics in there
Ya and it's very similar to the one he posted just before the pt. I wonder if he will go back to it
I played a lot yesterday. My opinion on necropolis fiend changed. I used to laugh at the "X card is bad, it dies to removal" arguments, but... When you delve 7 cards to cast a creature only to get it removed instantly, it really hurts. In all my games yesterday, I realized that it would have been better to save those cards for an empty the pits or a murderous cut. For now he's going in the sideboard, only to come back against decks with no/little removal. What do you guys think?
I was also told my deck is "good" but "slow and passive". Is this how you guys play? In a lot of games, if Sidisi was removed, then I was left with... not much. What usually happened is that I sat back with weaver and just waited for a good card to get milled. Then I was back on track. It worked sometimes, our deck offer lots of possibilities and 2-3 times I sacced weaver at the perfect moment for the perfect answer. But most of the time it feels clunky because it can take a turn or two just to get something back. In that time the opponent is free to do whatever he wants. Maybe we need to play more threats?
The more I've played with him, the more I realize that he should very rarely be a 4/5 flier for BB. The less you delve when you play him, the less it hurts when people remove him and the more fuel you have to use his ability.