A control-ish constellation deck that can end the game on turn 5 or 6 in a best case scenario, many ways to mill yourself, get those cards back, and get buffs off of the dead cards with Nighthowler and Strength from the Fallen.
Constellation and yet you don't have Eidolon of Blossoms? You can cut blue (as the above poster said) and run the Eidolons for Card draw. They synergize with your mill creatures plan as well as being a constellation engine.
I have Blue in this deck so I can use Divination's Card Draw and Thassa for unblockable attacks, as well as Prognostic Sphinx for flying poke and scry.
Card draw: Eidolon of blossoms plus ANY enchantments
Flying: Herald of Torment and/or Master of Feasts
Scry: Temple of Malady, and if you're invested in the graveyard play, Kruphix's Insight
Unblockable: How they gonna block when their board is empty? Doomwake Giant and Extinguish all Hope
Really, if you wanna keep blue you should be running Riptide Chimera and counterspells or something. Otherwise ALL your blue cards are just mucking up the decent synergy you have. Also, why run whip and pharika if you're goal is keeping creatures in the yard?
always glad to see a little creativity here, especially with a deck that I really enjoy and find quite fascinating. That being said, I don't think that blue is a good splash for this brand of reanimation *in general*. And I think this is especially true considering your current build.
The blue cards you are running, while certainly good, come with a number of drawbacks:
1.) They don't add to the constellation synergy (with the exception of Thassa)
2.) They do things that you could also do within the B/G framework. Sticking to this framework would certainly make your deck more consistent (looking at the UU in the Sphynx, for example). You already have card draw with G (Eidolon of Blossoms) and evasion with B (Herald or Master of the Feast and also to a certain extent with G (trample from Nylea).
3.) Adding *any* additional color within this build will make it very difficult to play without the right mana base, and even then it's bound to run into trouble. As it stands, 16 cards have a BB, UU, or GG cost, and most of those (Herald, Courser, etc.) are essential to the deck's strategy.
4.) Some of the card choices actually undermine the build itself. I'm thinking specifically of Divination. Yes, it let's you draw two cards, but wouldn't you rather draw cards and put others in your graveyard? This is where I think cards like Satyr Wayfinder, Commune with the Gods, and (in constellation builds, such as this) Kruphix's Insight really shine.
So, kudos to you for thinking outside the box! But I would seriously reconsider whether blue has a place here.
@CloudheadedAmigo: Pharika is there to create constellation triggers for Strength from the Fallen, which allows for combat tricks (which this deck otherwise has none of). With enough mill (inclusion of Satyr Wayfinder and Commune with the Gods, then you have dudes to spare in the graveyard).
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Thanks for the suggestions Chikken, I was running blue originally because a friend made the suggestion that I should add it for Thassa and Divination. I do think Eidolon would be a better alternative to it now that it has been mentioned numerous times, and I was thinking about more self mill, and Satyr, Commune, and Kruphix's all help me in that. Again, thanks and I will get to working them into the deck.
Quick Update: After removing the blue and adding the suggested cards, the mana base seems to be in a wacked out state because the deck becomes about 75-80% green and the mana base is split almost half and half. Any suggestions on how to fix it?
That was the list I was playing pre-M15. Struggles a bit pre-board against Mono-black and red-based aggro decks. Sideboard could probably use some work. It's very refined for my current meta.
Since you are in green you could run Sylvan Caryatids, and while it's not that good for fixing, Mana Blooms since they'll give you a repeatable constellation trigger.
I'm not really interested in using Mana Ramp in this deck, and I'm trying to keep it post rotation, though I am looking for sideboard help. I am considering Erebos, God of the Dead but that's all I've got for now
It's not all relevant (as it doesn't all center around Strength from the Fallen and constellation synergy, but it's still a good place to get ideas.
As for your sideboard, I play a poor man's version of the deck you run, so my list is considerably different, but my sideboard included mostly aggro/weenie hate (some spot removal and Drown in Sorrow) as well as control hate (in the form of Duress or Though Seize, if you have it). A lot of people run Golgari Charm as well.
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Made some updates to the deck, slowed it down quite a bit.
I misunderstood Strength from the Fallen COMPLETELY. I thought it was ALL cards in the yard, not just creatures. As I have now noticed this, I have reduced the number of them and added slower, more reliable means of constellation in the form of Grim Guardian and Doomwake Giant.
I keep thinking you have nighthowler there, but I would pull a few of your master of feasts for those and Herald of Torment. And maybe boon satyr (flash makes him extremely versatile with any constellation effect)
I think 4 Doomwake Giant is a little heavy, especially at 5 mana. He is big enough to hurt your opponent, but I think his biggest benefit is his utility. It's important, then, to remember that Whip of Erebos, Nyx Weaver, Kruphix's Insight, and Commune with the Gods all help you find him, so you aren't totally reliant upon a top-deck. I'd cut maybe 2 to make some room for other useful cards.
I'm also not sure that Grim Guardian is the best fit for this build. I think that Nighthowler might be a better choice. It triggers constellation and benefits directly from all the milling. Grim Guardian is cool if you are trying to grind down your opponent, but without control mechanisms, I'm not sure he has a place here.
Also, Nighthowler is way more relevant with Whip of Erebos. If you have Strength in play, then you get the constellation trigger (as you would with Grim Guardian), but instead of causing them to lose a measly one loss of life, you threaten them with *another* X/X fatty who also gives you loads of life.
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Don't knock Doomwake, bacon. Remember each copy of constellation stacks so each Doomwake out on the field means a more easily cleared board.
One gripe I have with this kinda deck is you're lacking any real removal, and Brain Maggot and Doomwake help to mitigate that a bit. As well, you're fragile to most board clearing unless you're bestowing, which is more reason for Nighthowler, Boon Satyr, and Herald of Torment. Lastly, you should atleast sideboard something that'll protect your side of the board. Since you're trying to keep this post rotation, maybe soul of new phyrexia? (Kinda sucks that there isn't a fog in M15)
I'm rather glad I turned to this site for help with this deck. If I didn't, I'd probably be spending a few hundred dollars on a deck that was clearly not as refined as this one has become, and now I feel like this has become a smarter purchase. Thanks to all who have given suggestions and I await future ideas!
Deck strengths:
The damage output is insane when you get going. Probably the most explosive midrange deck there is. This leads to:
Has big comeback potential. Your opponent will think they're safe to attack, and then you can turn what was a 1/1 creature into a 15/15 and swing for the win. As long as one creature is on the board, any turn could be the opponent's last.
Fairly often can play a 3 drop on turn 2 that has 3+ toughness, which can stop aggro right from the get go.
Almost always a profitable combat, since your creatures get larger than ANY other deck.
It's the most fun deck I've played in a long time.
Deck Weaknesses:
Can take some time to "set up" as you get creatures in your yard. Sometimes the opponent will be vulnerable and there's nothing you can do to capitalize on it.
A bit vulnerable to spot removal, since you sometimes have to stack triggers on one creature.
Vulnerable to chump blockers. Usually the pressure is enough to force them to lose their board when you're attacking for 5+ every turn, but sometimes you'll lose because you're 10/10+ creature can be chumped easily.
Very little disruption to interact with opponents. Sometimes all you need to do is kill an opposing blocker to win, but you can't...
Graveyard hate. This is a weakness entirely of it's own due to the fact that if the deck ever becomes very popular, every single deck has access to that 0 cost grave hate artifact in M15 now.
What would I change now if I went back to it?
Replace Courser of Kruphix with Hero's Downfall, or (maybe) other cheaper removal. Planeswalkers can be an issue, but often times you'll just use the removal to clear a blocker to allow your creature to hit the opponent. Courser's effect is nice, but not super important to the deck like it is most others. It should be in sideboard though for vs aggro decks.
Nykthos should be Mutavault, as it significantly helps the control match. It's something they can't target on their turn, and it can be buffed with Strength From the Fallen when animated. They are expensive and rotating soon though, which is why I never bought them.
Maybe a 3/1 split of Grisly Salvage and Commune with the Gods, though I'm not sure it'd matter. Grisly Salvage lets the deck play only 20 lands, because it can grab one if needed. The only thing it can't grab is Strength in the deck... which is kind of important though. Personally I'd rather keep the lower land count though so I can keep drawing threats. Nyx Weaver can bring stuff back though too if needed.
Note: This is NOT an aggro deck, but it IS an aggressive deck. Difference is that it takes a bit of time to set up, so you won't be doing too much attacking until after turn 4. Then it gets pretty insane though.
Recent Update: 8.1.14 FNM
Went 2-2 at last night's FNM.
Match 1 [2-1]: Naya Hexproof
Game 1 [L]:
Polis Crushers. That is all.
Game 2 [W]:
I was able to get Nylea onto the field with a Herald and a Master, Strength from the Fallen triggers forced the guy to concede.
Game 3 [W]:
The guy got manascrewed at 3 lands and couldn't find another source to play his 5 drops. I slowly whittled him down and he couldn't do anything.
.
Match 2 [1-2]: Mono Black Aggro
Game 1 [W]: The waves of creatures chunked me down to 1 life and I stabilized the board. I started to pump a creature and was able to deal 16 damage in one turn.
Game 2 [L]: He has a full board and I have 11 life. His board can deal 11 damage, but I have a chump blocker ready. He bestows Gnarled Scarhide to my blocker and I cry a little inside.
Game 3 [L]: His sideboard picks trumped mine and I was stuck on 1 life with 3 Heralds in hand and 2 painlands on field.
.
Match 3 [0-2]: "Izzet 5s" as he called it, looked like an Artifact Deck though.
Game 1 [L]: Ornithopter Turn 1. Made it a 5/5 turn two. Had no answers.
Game 2 [L]: A similar result as Game 1.
.
Match 4 [2-0]: B/W Constellation
Game 1 [W]: One Life Clutch Plays with tons of pump for 16 swing with Nylea.
Game 2 [W]: He got 1 land for the first 4 turns and had minimal board presence while I had tons of flying poke.
.
I finally got to play the deck and It turned out to play pretty well, the only thing I think I need more of is Boardwipe, maybe in the form of Extinguish All Hope. Also considering dropping Whip of Erebos for Pharika.
I'd say that's a good idea, as well as bringing in a playset of Chord of Calling, so you can readjust your creature count and run pseudoflash for those delicious constellation triggers.
Fast aggro (especially mono black) totally stops this deck unless you can make it to the midgame. I run Drown in Sorrow the my sideboard for my build of this deck for that very reason. Yes, it will kill your Eidolons (in my build, it also kills Elvish Mystic and Brain Maggot), but sending guys to your graveyard just adds to the count for Strength of the Fallen, and in your build will likely leave you with a much better board state than your opponent.
Also, I'd try to make some room for spot removal in your 60. Abrupt Decay or Hero's Downfall can be lifesavers.
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Thank you so much for the Drown in Sorrow idea. I didn't even know it was a card actually, and if I would have had it against the Mono Black I faced Friday it would have saved my life. As for Downfall, I was highly considering it in the early builds of this deck, but I found that just boarding pseudo-removal was good enough, though I may test the deck with it in the stead of Doomwake Giants.
After more consideration I have decided to test out dropping the 2 Coursers of Kruphix and a Satyr Wayfinder for 3 Boon Satyrs. I originally rejected them but have found that their combat tricks and the fact they practically have haste are very enjoyable and fit the speed of this deck. Coursers feel too slow for this kind of deck.
Yeah if you aren't running Pharika, God of Affliction then it's your only way to carry out any tricksy combat interactions. Considering how much GG and BB is in your deck, have you considered running Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx? It wouldn't be too much help in the early game, but it would allow you to more easily pay the bestow cost for Herald of Torment or Boon Satyr in the midgame.
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Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
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3x Temple of Malady
3x Llanowar Wastes
8x Swamp
3x Master of the Feast
3x Herald of Torment
3x Doomwake Giant
2x Nylea, God of the Hunt
3x Nyx Weaver
2x Courser of Kruphix
3x Eidolon of Blossoms
3x Nighthowler
3x Satyr Wayfinder
3x Commune with the Gods
3x Strength from the Fallen
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
4x Bile Blight
3x Gild
3x Drown in Sorrow
3x Naturalize
A control-ish constellation deck that can end the game on turn 5 or 6 in a best case scenario, many ways to mill yourself, get those cards back, and get buffs off of the dead cards with Nighthowler and Strength from the Fallen.
Looking for Feedback as well as sideboard help.
Card draw: Eidolon of blossoms plus ANY enchantments
Flying: Herald of Torment and/or Master of Feasts
Scry: Temple of Malady, and if you're invested in the graveyard play, Kruphix's Insight
Unblockable: How they gonna block when their board is empty? Doomwake Giant and Extinguish all Hope
Really, if you wanna keep blue you should be running Riptide Chimera and counterspells or something. Otherwise ALL your blue cards are just mucking up the decent synergy you have. Also, why run whip and pharika if you're goal is keeping creatures in the yard?
always glad to see a little creativity here, especially with a deck that I really enjoy and find quite fascinating. That being said, I don't think that blue is a good splash for this brand of reanimation *in general*. And I think this is especially true considering your current build.
The blue cards you are running, while certainly good, come with a number of drawbacks:
1.) They don't add to the constellation synergy (with the exception of Thassa)
2.) They do things that you could also do within the B/G framework. Sticking to this framework would certainly make your deck more consistent (looking at the UU in the Sphynx, for example). You already have card draw with G (Eidolon of Blossoms) and evasion with B (Herald or Master of the Feast and also to a certain extent with G (trample from Nylea).
3.) Adding *any* additional color within this build will make it very difficult to play without the right mana base, and even then it's bound to run into trouble. As it stands, 16 cards have a BB, UU, or GG cost, and most of those (Herald, Courser, etc.) are essential to the deck's strategy.
4.) Some of the card choices actually undermine the build itself. I'm thinking specifically of Divination. Yes, it let's you draw two cards, but wouldn't you rather draw cards and put others in your graveyard? This is where I think cards like Satyr Wayfinder, Commune with the Gods, and (in constellation builds, such as this) Kruphix's Insight really shine.
So, kudos to you for thinking outside the box! But I would seriously reconsider whether blue has a place here.
@CloudheadedAmigo: Pharika is there to create constellation triggers for Strength from the Fallen, which allows for combat tricks (which this deck otherwise has none of). With enough mill (inclusion of Satyr Wayfinder and Commune with the Gods, then you have dudes to spare in the graveyard).
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Quick Update: After removing the blue and adding the suggested cards, the mana base seems to be in a wacked out state because the deck becomes about 75-80% green and the mana base is split almost half and half. Any suggestions on how to fix it?
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Strength from the Fallen
3 Commune with the Gods
4 Kruphix's Insight
9 Forest
1 Mana Confluence
3 Mutavault
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple of Malady
4 Brain Maggot
3 Golgari Charm
4 Thoughtseize
That was the list I was playing pre-M15. Struggles a bit pre-board against Mono-black and red-based aggro decks. Sideboard could probably use some work. It's very refined for my current meta.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/competitive/established-standard/525596-discussion-standard-dredge
It's not all relevant (as it doesn't all center around Strength from the Fallen and constellation synergy, but it's still a good place to get ideas.
As for your sideboard, I play a poor man's version of the deck you run, so my list is considerably different, but my sideboard included mostly aggro/weenie hate (some spot removal and Drown in Sorrow) as well as control hate (in the form of Duress or Though Seize, if you have it). A lot of people run Golgari Charm as well.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
I misunderstood Strength from the Fallen COMPLETELY. I thought it was ALL cards in the yard, not just creatures. As I have now noticed this, I have reduced the number of them and added slower, more reliable means of constellation in the form of Grim Guardian and Doomwake Giant.
Thoughts on the revisions?
I'm also not sure that Grim Guardian is the best fit for this build. I think that Nighthowler might be a better choice. It triggers constellation and benefits directly from all the milling. Grim Guardian is cool if you are trying to grind down your opponent, but without control mechanisms, I'm not sure he has a place here.
Also, Nighthowler is way more relevant with Whip of Erebos. If you have Strength in play, then you get the constellation trigger (as you would with Grim Guardian), but instead of causing them to lose a measly one loss of life, you threaten them with *another* X/X fatty who also gives you loads of life.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
One gripe I have with this kinda deck is you're lacking any real removal, and Brain Maggot and Doomwake help to mitigate that a bit. As well, you're fragile to most board clearing unless you're bestowing, which is more reason for Nighthowler, Boon Satyr, and Herald of Torment. Lastly, you should atleast sideboard something that'll protect your side of the board. Since you're trying to keep this post rotation, maybe soul of new phyrexia? (Kinda sucks that there isn't a fog in M15)
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Brain Maggot
3 Boon Satyr
2 Courser of Kruphix
4 Nyx Weaver
3 Nighthowler
2 Herald of Torment
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
4 Strength from the Fallen
4 Grisly Salvage
6 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Temple of Malady
4 Swamp
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Deck strengths:
The damage output is insane when you get going. Probably the most explosive midrange deck there is. This leads to:
Has big comeback potential. Your opponent will think they're safe to attack, and then you can turn what was a 1/1 creature into a 15/15 and swing for the win. As long as one creature is on the board, any turn could be the opponent's last.
Fairly often can play a 3 drop on turn 2 that has 3+ toughness, which can stop aggro right from the get go.
Almost always a profitable combat, since your creatures get larger than ANY other deck.
It's the most fun deck I've played in a long time.
Deck Weaknesses:
Can take some time to "set up" as you get creatures in your yard. Sometimes the opponent will be vulnerable and there's nothing you can do to capitalize on it.
A bit vulnerable to spot removal, since you sometimes have to stack triggers on one creature.
Vulnerable to chump blockers. Usually the pressure is enough to force them to lose their board when you're attacking for 5+ every turn, but sometimes you'll lose because you're 10/10+ creature can be chumped easily.
Very little disruption to interact with opponents. Sometimes all you need to do is kill an opposing blocker to win, but you can't...
Graveyard hate. This is a weakness entirely of it's own due to the fact that if the deck ever becomes very popular, every single deck has access to that 0 cost grave hate artifact in M15 now.
What would I change now if I went back to it?
Replace Courser of Kruphix with Hero's Downfall, or (maybe) other cheaper removal. Planeswalkers can be an issue, but often times you'll just use the removal to clear a blocker to allow your creature to hit the opponent. Courser's effect is nice, but not super important to the deck like it is most others. It should be in sideboard though for vs aggro decks.
Nykthos should be Mutavault, as it significantly helps the control match. It's something they can't target on their turn, and it can be buffed with Strength From the Fallen when animated. They are expensive and rotating soon though, which is why I never bought them.
Maybe a 3/1 split of Grisly Salvage and Commune with the Gods, though I'm not sure it'd matter. Grisly Salvage lets the deck play only 20 lands, because it can grab one if needed. The only thing it can't grab is Strength in the deck... which is kind of important though. Personally I'd rather keep the lower land count though so I can keep drawing threats. Nyx Weaver can bring stuff back though too if needed.
Note: This is NOT an aggro deck, but it IS an aggressive deck. Difference is that it takes a bit of time to set up, so you won't be doing too much attacking until after turn 4. Then it gets pretty insane though.
Hope this helps a bit!
Went 2-2 at last night's FNM.
Match 1 [2-1]: Naya Hexproof
Game 1 [L]:
Polis Crushers. That is all.
Game 2 [W]:
I was able to get Nylea onto the field with a Herald and a Master, Strength from the Fallen triggers forced the guy to concede.
Game 3 [W]:
The guy got manascrewed at 3 lands and couldn't find another source to play his 5 drops. I slowly whittled him down and he couldn't do anything.
.
Match 2 [1-2]: Mono Black Aggro
Game 1 [W]: The waves of creatures chunked me down to 1 life and I stabilized the board. I started to pump a creature and was able to deal 16 damage in one turn.
Game 2 [L]: He has a full board and I have 11 life. His board can deal 11 damage, but I have a chump blocker ready. He bestows Gnarled Scarhide to my blocker and I cry a little inside.
Game 3 [L]: His sideboard picks trumped mine and I was stuck on 1 life with 3 Heralds in hand and 2 painlands on field.
.
Match 3 [0-2]: "Izzet 5s" as he called it, looked like an Artifact Deck though.
Game 1 [L]: Ornithopter Turn 1. Made it a 5/5 turn two. Had no answers.
Game 2 [L]: A similar result as Game 1.
.
Match 4 [2-0]: B/W Constellation
Game 1 [W]: One Life Clutch Plays with tons of pump for 16 swing with Nylea.
Game 2 [W]: He got 1 land for the first 4 turns and had minimal board presence while I had tons of flying poke.
.
I finally got to play the deck and It turned out to play pretty well, the only thing I think I need more of is Boardwipe, maybe in the form of Extinguish All Hope. Also considering dropping Whip of Erebos for Pharika.
Fast aggro (especially mono black) totally stops this deck unless you can make it to the midgame. I run Drown in Sorrow the my sideboard for my build of this deck for that very reason. Yes, it will kill your Eidolons (in my build, it also kills Elvish Mystic and Brain Maggot), but sending guys to your graveyard just adds to the count for Strength of the Fallen, and in your build will likely leave you with a much better board state than your opponent.
Also, I'd try to make some room for spot removal in your 60. Abrupt Decay or Hero's Downfall can be lifesavers.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Thank you so much for the Drown in Sorrow idea. I didn't even know it was a card actually, and if I would have had it against the Mono Black I faced Friday it would have saved my life. As for Downfall, I was highly considering it in the early builds of this deck, but I found that just boarding pseudo-removal was good enough, though I may test the deck with it in the stead of Doomwake Giants.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.