Honestly, the only reason for no Courser of Kruphix is because I don't think that the deck would overall benefit from it. With only 22 land, it's not going to hit very often (I wouldn't use Courser of Kruphix unless I had at least 23 land, prefer 24) and doesn't really fit the theme of "silver bullets". I do have it in mind and will see if it is needed.
T1 - Elf
T2 - Follower
T3 - Prophet; untap on their turn, cast Yisan
T4 - Yisan a 1 drop; untap on their turn, Yisan a 2 drop
T5 - Yisan a 3 drop and 4 drop; untap on their turn, Yisan a 5 drop and 6 drop. Grab Prime Speaker Zegana against anything that doesn't have board wipes; otherwise grab Soul of New Phyrexia.
Alternately
T1 - Elf
T2 - Follower
T3 - Prophet; Courser
T4 - If you have Nykthos, produce 10 mana and Chord of Calling out a Soul of New Phyrexia (or a Genesis Hydra for 8 and hope you hit it); untap and be pretty invincible
Honestly, the only reason for no Courser of Kruphix is because I don't think that the deck would overall benefit from it. With only 22 land, it's not going to hit very often (I wouldn't use Courser of Kruphix unless I had at least 23 land, prefer 24) and doesn't really fit the theme of "silver bullets". I do have it in mind and will see if it is needed.
Except it has synergy with Nykthos, Reverent Hunter, Nylea, Nylea's Disciple, Karametra's Acolyte and Genesis Hydra.
Honestly, the only reason for no Courser of Kruphix is because I don't think that the deck would overall benefit from it. With only 22 land, it's not going to hit very often (I wouldn't use Courser of Kruphix unless I had at least 23 land, prefer 24) and doesn't really fit the theme of "silver bullets". I do have it in mind and will see if it is needed.
Except it has synergy with Nykthos, Reverent Hunter, Nylea, Nylea's Disciple, Karametra's Acolyte and Genesis Hydra.
I like synergy.
Yes, this is true. But if I'm casting Chord of Calling for 3, my target's are going to be in this order:
Courser of Kruphix would be the last choice out of the 3 CMC slot sadly, even Hornet Nest has more potential against agro/midrange decks.
Don't get me wrong, I think Courser of Kruphix is an amazing card. But I really think that his overall impact is going to go down as more and more people play the card because green is also the best color to fight it (bigger creatures and Enchantment removal).
But like I said, I will keep it in mind, I just don't really consider it something that I want to play as a 1-of but something that I want to play as a 4-of, which kind of goes against the principle of this deck.
Sylvan Caryatid is so much better. If you are playing a toolbox deck, you are not playing a beat down deck. you are playing a strategy where you find answers to your opponent's threats and eventually tutor out a game winning card. Even if you want to keep Voyaging Satyr for Nykthos (which I disagree with, should be 4 Elvish Mystic to power out a T2 Yissan), replace the 4 Golden Hind with Sylvan Caryatid.
I agree that Sylvan Caryatid is a much, much better card then Golden Hind. But if I'm in a situation where I can be swinging with a 2/1 that I can pump with Nylea, God of the Hunt, that's going to be more relevant then an 0/3 doing nothing. Sylvan Caryatid is also a card that would be sided out every time against UWx Control, where Golden Hind can at the very least still be attacking (or trading with a Mutavault). Golden Hind is a card that I have been playing in Mono-Green Agro/Devotion since it came out and I haven't looked back. With the tutor ability of the deck, I will probably eventually doing a 2/2 split of these cards to help with options (I actually like that idea).
I also really want to use Soul of Zendikar as a means to make Garruk's Packleader a true draw engine (paying 3GG for a 3/3 and drawing a card seems very good against certain decks). I'm thinking that Soul of New Phyrexia might be a better sideboard card (probably in place of Archetype of Endurance). I completely blanked on Phyrexian Revoker and I will be finding a spot for those, probably 1 main and 2 in the side board.
Right now I'm going to go back to the drawing board and looking to lower the curve overall, but I'm not sure. Right now the curve is:
Let me know what you think of that list. Added Setessan Tactics so that we have a way of interacting against other creature and devotion decks (wish that we had a Haste enabler).
Sadly, with so many 1 ofs, you'll hardly ever be synergistic. Packleader and Soul will never be allowed to do anything together, especially while this standard is still fast and removal heavy.
There's a reason why you're allowed up to 4 of a single card as well as a separate format for singletons. They just don't go together unless you enjoy losing every game.
I mean, I see what you're going for, I do, but some of the singletons are absolute worthless; why have one Karametra's Acolyte when you can have one more Polukranos or a Scavenging Ooze?
If I do end up going black, I will probably add in Eidolon of Blossoms. Another thing is if a second color is added, the land count will go up and will make Courser of Kruphix a better option.
The biggest thing is I'm just throwing ideas up to get feedback, so thank you for that. I will add that I want to keep it Mono-Green as I am working with a budget at the moment.
Sadly, with so many 1 ofs, you'll hardly ever be synergistic. Packleader and Soul will never be allowed to do anything together, especially while this standard is still fast and removal heavy.
There's a reason why you're allowed up to 4 of a single card as well as a separate format for singletons. They just don't go together unless you enjoy losing every game.
I mean, I see what you're going for, I do, but some of the singletons are absolute worthless; why have one Karametra's Acolyte when you can have one more Polukranos or a Scavenging Ooze?
Do you know what Toolbox means? Did you ever saw Birthing Pod decks? It's the same baseline. Of course it won't work so well like Pod, this guy is trying.
Invasive Species is a good 1 of for a x=3 Chord of Calling to Bounce a value creature in response to a kill spell. I made an almost identical list to you OP. It's what I'll be trying to build come m15. I'll try and post my version here when I have time.
Edit: On the spell side of things, what I came up with was identical, tactics and X4 Chord seem 100% mandatory mainboard. Lets take a look at the shell for this deck:
5 Slots left. Adding in 1 more Polukranos and Nylea to keep a lower curve with high threat presence while being less reliant on Chord of Calling to find meaningful threats seems good.
A reactionary 1 of card with a ton of application I mention above was Invasive Species. I like this kind of effect A LOT. I used it to great effect last standard season with Emancipation Angel.
2 Slots. I hate losing to Stormbreath Dragon. Arbor Colossus X3 seems like the best option to fill in our air defense while once again adding to our devotion strategy.
Stormbreath Dragon and Desecration Demon and Mono Blue Devotion are everywhere so I auto include 1 Deadly Recluse into all my mono green lists now, it also has synergy with Tactics. I don't think any number of Genesis Hydra is correct in this deck. More card draw and filtering is what the deck needs to stay ahead. I think for win conditions, Nylea, God of the Hunt and something else should fit the bill, what the something else is is up for debate.
If I do end up going black, I will probably add in Eidolon of Blossoms. Another thing is if a second color is added, the land count will go up and will make Courser of Kruphix a better option.
The biggest thing is I'm just throwing ideas up to get feedback, so thank you for that. I will add that I want to keep it Mono-Green as I am working with a budget at the moment.
What would you recommend for a Mono-Green list?
A couple of thoughts I've had, while browsing here and following the more aggro-centric Mono-G thread;
#1 - The decision to splash a color or not, right now I'm thinking no. The biggest reason is, right now we're operating/deckbuilding on the axis of "how much self-interaction" does this list provide? We're essentially figuring out the nuts and bolts of consistency, self-interaction, and what can this deck do on it's own with it's own resources. The metagame come october could completely warp everything, making Green decks look like something none of us envisioned now. A good example of this would be this current Standard's Jund Monsters - a lot of card choices in that deck are reactionary, it's very much an "in response to the meta + the mirror" thing. We're nowhere near approaching that point yet, so I think it's best to figure out simply what works best for us, and not care about the what-if meta that much.
White Splash
- My first draw is towards white, mainly for Voice of Resurgence, (at least while it's still around). Voice and some elements of Selesnya to me seem mechanically positioned to really take advantage of Convoke (ability to make more dudes, and always have dudes around more so than other colors). Biggest turnoff from White; Karametra, God of Harvests. The biggest appeal in being a Chord deck to me, is getting to run 1-of on Gods, and the appeal of a splash is getting a 1-of dual color God, but Karametra is pretty weak in general.
Black Splash
- I'm leaning against this at first glance. I like what a lot of GB decks are doing with cards like Garruk, Apex Predator + Vraska the Unseen, but those decks are structured completely differently (lots of removal) and more traditionally Rock style. Black doesn't really add any more explosive power or another dimension to our creatures, IMO, it just pulls us into wanting to play a longer, grindier game. Which is fine too, for instance, Pharika seems reasonable to splash for, but I wouldn't splash black for her alone. Shadowborn Demon seems excellent in a lot of ways to me, we have cheap creatures to feed him with, and Chord of Calling can possibly cast him for entirely green mana, if we're not heavily splashing black, at instant speed. More exploration needed here, I think, this is just me spitballing a few cards that jump out to me for splashing.
Blue Splash
- Reid Duke's article really covered the bases here, and he has been a champion proponent of Bant decks for a long time now. I'll definitely defer to his choices here. Blue is very easy to splash, since it has Yavimaya Coast instead of Temple of Mystery and has a lot of mirror breaking options (Cyclonic Rift). Just as a preference for splashing, I'd rather do Blue or Black simply because they have access to faster mana at the moment.
Red Splash
- Xenagos, God of Revels, Xenagos, the Reveler. I say with complete certainty that cards like Stormbreath Dragon and Soul of Shandalar are only going to dilute and weaken any green devotion we have going on. I've tried green devotion / Monsters hybrids, and it really feels better to commit to one or the other. I honestly like Red the least here, with the exception of Xenagod, the whole point of adding Red is to make the deck "more explosive" or "hastier", yet adding another color, even a light splash may slow down the rest of things a tad (or make mana more painful).
#2 - Respecting aggro - this is my only rule of caring about the meta at the start of new seasons. Aggro decks are always advantaged, because nothing is fully figured out yet. If anything, this would skew me more towards Courser of Kruphix, although I'm very much in agreement with you on your reasons for excluding it, Sslater. It's a very low priority to fetch at 3 CMC, and the land count isn't there. There's certainly other ways we are respecting aggro anyway - Nylea's Disciple, Scooze, etc.
#3 - Biggest reason *not* to splash - Nissa. I know you're leaning towards keeping your lists budget (Sslater), but I'm heavily exploring the decks that can be built around Nissa. If she has a home here, she really doesn't like non-forests, from my limited testing already, I've been doing entirely Forest + 4x Nykthos type land bases, and even one Nykthos (instead of another Forest) in play can change my decision on whether to cast her or not. This really makes her more of a turn 5 play most of the time for me, instead of ramping her out T4, as she'll on average only untap 3 lands the turn she comes down. Which is fine, I'm just stressing that she is not okay with splashing anything. The biggest advantage she offers MonoGreen really is another angle of attack against control decks - animating lands is very good for us, since this "play tons of dudes" strategy is very much arguably playing straight into sweepers, we need all the resilience we can get IMO.
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
Sadly, with so many 1 ofs, you'll hardly ever be synergistic. Packleader and Soul will never be allowed to do anything together, especially while this standard is still fast and removal heavy.
There's a reason why you're allowed up to 4 of a single card as well as a separate format for singletons. They just don't go together unless you enjoy losing every game.
I mean, I see what you're going for, I do, but some of the singletons are absolute worthless; why have one Karametra's Acolyte when you can have one more Polukranos or a Scavenging Ooze?
Do you know what Toolbox means? Did you ever saw Birthing Pod decks? It's the same baseline. Of course it won't work so well like Pod, this guy is trying.
I'm aware of what a toolbox deck is and I'm aware that it's VERY VERY hard to do in today's standard. With a smaller cardpool compared to legacy and modern, you simply don't have as many "tools", ESPECIALLY if you're going a mono color.
I'm trying to help by offering up the hard truth. You want to be competitive or you want to kitchen table. It sounds like the OP wants to be competitive.
If I do end up going black, I will probably add in Eidolon of Blossoms. Another thing is if a second color is added, the land count will go up and will make Courser of Kruphix a better option.
The biggest thing is I'm just throwing ideas up to get feedback, so thank you for that. I will add that I want to keep it Mono-Green as I am working with a budget at the moment.
What would you recommend for a Mono-Green list?
You're kind of going in the opposite direction. If you go a second color, you want less creatures with double colors in their cmc, in theory.
I like a small black splash to go with a mono green. Even post rotation I really like green splashing (no double swamp costs) black.
I'll post what I'm shooting for post rotation in a bit
@ Bostonsteve - it's also worth mentioning a little further than that, I think. It's one thing to say the tools now just suck as opposed to then. It's hard to do in today's standard *because* the tutorable bombs by and large have nowhere near the inevitability or immediate killing power as say, Primeval Titan + Kessig Wolf Run. Whatever 1-of tutorables are very much "situational" at the moment...I like Chord'ing in Nylea before damage happens right now a lot, to grant my team trample and blowout chump blockers, which is a pretty common/versatile situation, and very strong play.
Just due to the nature of the format now, and the lower power level of bombs (in all colors) in general, and lack of much inevitability (as compared to previously Wolf Run Ramp / Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle for instance) - we are forced to play the longer, grind it out games.
Some of the tutorables really are situational, some of them decent. I just completely doubt whether Yisan himself is worth it or not, so far I'm leaning towards no, because he really is slow to get going before you see a return on him, plus removal is so heavily played, so I would rather build around Chord entirely. Reid Duke's Simic/Bant take on Yisan is powerful if unchecked, but that's only relevant in midrange vs midrange type matchups where there's no interaction, it's a "who can go bigger" type board stall. Good points though, it is the "harsh truth".
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
@ Bostonsteve - it's also worth mentioning a little further than that, I think. It's one thing to say the tools now just suck as opposed to then. It's hard to do in today's standard *because* the tutorable bombs by and large have nowhere near the inevitability or immediate killing power as say, Primeval Titan + Kessig Wolf Run. Whatever 1-of tutorables are very much "situational" at the moment...I like Chord'ing in Nylea before damage happens right now a lot, to grant my team trample and blowout chump blockers, which is a pretty common/versatile situation, and very strong play.
Just due to the nature of the format now, and the lower power level of bombs (in all colors) in general, and lack of much inevitability (as compared to previously Wolf Run Ramp / Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle for instance) - we are forced to play the longer, grind it out games.
Some of the tutorables really are situational, some of them decent. I just completely doubt whether Yisan himself is worth it or not, so far I'm leaning towards no, because he really is slow to get going before you see a return on him, plus removal is so heavily played, so I would rather build around Chord entirely. Reid Duke's Simic/Bant take on Yisan is powerful if unchecked, but that's only relevant in midrange vs midrange type matchups where there's no interaction, it's a "who can go bigger" type board stall. Good points though, it is the "harsh truth".
I agree with all of this. I'll see what black can splash and make some edits to my above post.
@ Bostonsteve - it's also worth mentioning a little further than that, I think. It's one thing to say the tools now just suck as opposed to then. It's hard to do in today's standard *because* the tutorable bombs by and large have nowhere near the inevitability or immediate killing power as say, Primeval Titan + Kessig Wolf Run. Whatever 1-of tutorables are very much "situational" at the moment...I like Chord'ing in Nylea before damage happens right now a lot, to grant my team trample and blowout chump blockers, which is a pretty common/versatile situation, and very strong play.
Just due to the nature of the format now, and the lower power level of bombs (in all colors) in general, and lack of much inevitability (as compared to previously Wolf Run Ramp / Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle for instance) - we are forced to play the longer, grind it out games.
Some of the tutorables really are situational, some of them decent. I just completely doubt whether Yisan himself is worth it or not, so far I'm leaning towards no, because he really is slow to get going before you see a return on him, plus removal is so heavily played, so I would rather build around Chord entirely. Reid Duke's Simic/Bant take on Yisan is powerful if unchecked, but that's only relevant in midrange vs midrange type matchups where there's no interaction, it's a "who can go bigger" type board stall. Good points though, it is the "harsh truth".
It's one thing to talk about a mono green tool kit in a vacuum, but it's a total other thing to actually back up your claim. Please do tell what either of the above lists would do against MBD, MUD, U/W control or Jund Monsters on a consistent basis. These are the power houses in Standard right now. I simply do not believe that a mono green tool box can stand up to any of these decks which you see everywhere. Given the option, I'd rather play Green devotion with or without a splash. It's also tough to tool box with the creatures in the colors right now because only a few actually do something when they come down. I'd rather have a Plummet as a one of in the main, or a Ranger's Guile as stupid as that sounds simply because it's more of an answer to X than a Hind, a Soul, a Colossus, an Acolyte, a Hunter etc etc. Reclamation Sage and Phyrexian Revoker are two great toolbox creatures because they impact the board the turn they hit the table. IMO until green gets more creatures like that, a tool box deck will only be half full.
I think it's important to restrict the number of tools in your toolbox to only those who will be important and worth tutoring in a great percentage of games. You can put other tools in your sideboard. This is what I'm looking to run:
I'm looking to stabilize in the early game with a x=3 chord of calling to bring a hornet's nest in after they've declared attackers... and make myself 3-4 deathtouch flying tokens.
"I began today by praising the power of tutor effects. However, they can be dangerous as well. The temptation when building a deck around a tutor effect is to play lots of wacky one-ofs, envisioning extreme situations where you might find a particular card useful. However, from my experience it's typically best to be as disciplined as possible. In most cases, the number of games you'll win by tutoring for an overly-situational card will be lower than the number of games you lose because you draw it instead of something better." -- http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/fun-with-chord-of-calling/
It's one thing to talk about a mono green tool kit in a vacuum, but it's a total other thing to actually back up your claim. Please do tell what either of the above lists would do against MBD, MUD, U/W control or Jund Monsters on a consistent basis. These are the power houses in Standard right now. I simply do not believe that a mono green tool box can stand up to any of these decks which you see everywhere. Given the option, I'd rather play Green devotion with or without a splash. It's also tough to tool box with the creatures in the colors right now because only a few actually do something when they come down. I'd rather have a Plummet as a one of in the main, or a Ranger's Guile as stupid as that sounds simply because it's more of an answer to X than a Hind, a Soul, a Colossus, an Acolyte, a Hunter etc etc. Reclamation Sage and Phyrexian Revoker are two great toolbox creatures because they impact the board the turn they hit the table. IMO until green gets more creatures like that, a tool box deck will only be half full.
Uh, sure, what claim? You know, I was actually agreeing with you, that the "harsh truth" is that toolboxing is nowhere near as good as it used to be. I was trying to encourage more explanation "why" it's bad now vs then, as you can't just tell a player who wasn't around then that "this just sucks compared to how it used to be". Followed by some generic overlook on the format, why the bombs you can tutor aren't that good, etc.
Nowhere am I championing a full on toolbox build, or did you need that spelled out for you? There's certainly some good cards that already deserved inclusion, such as Nylea. Reclamation Sage, Scooze, those are easy to justify 1-of's. The simple biggest upgrade in Chord of Calling is that now I can cut down on the number of actual Nylea's I run, but am still effectively running a full 3-4 copies of her, in the form of Chords. If there are a "few creatures" that can be good enough on their own, but aren't worth playing high quantities of, then are we "trying to force toolboxing?" Or just optimizing and benefiting on the side from the tools we're given?
IMO until green gets more creatures like that, a tool box deck will only be half full.
I'm totally fine with that, and want to work with what works first. If that means an incomplete toolbox, but an otherwise fully solid midrange green devotion core, I'll take it.
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
I do wish that we had stuff like Acidic Slime and Stingerfling Spider in Standard at the moment, but we don't so we have to make do with what we have.
I will say that on further thinking that I think that Genesis Hydra will be better in a full on Devotion list using stuff like Kalonian Tusker.
Just not sure where to take the list, but I really think that Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is very underrated. His major weakness is that he is a little slow.
Let's look at possible creatures to use at each CMC.
Adding white gives the deck a little bit more of a "hate bear" feel to it, by either shutting down Burn/Discard early, handicapping card draw, slowing down haste, creature removal, big beaters, etc. Just sucks that GW doesn't get a Pain Land like the enemy pairs.
4 Genesis Hydra
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Hornet Queen
1 Hydra Broodmaster
1 Kalonian Twingrove
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
1 Arbor Colossus
1 Nessian Game Warden
1 Garruk's Packleader
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Nylea's Disciple
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Briarpack Alpha
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Reverent Hunter
1 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Hornet Nest
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Golden Hind
4 Voyaging Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Chord of Calling
Lands - 22
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
18 Forest
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Sylvan Primordial
2 Arbor Colossus
3 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea's Disciple
1 Briarpack Alpha
1 Setessan Starbreaker
3 Reclamation Sage
1 Brindle Boar
1 Scavenging Ooze
So that's it. Some quick card explanations:
Elvish Mystic/Voyaging Satyr/Golden Hind = This deck needs creatures for Chord of Calling and they ramp as well, making Genesis Hydra a bigger threat mid to late game.
Chord of Calling/Yisan, the Wanderer Bard/Genesis Hydra = These card allow for the toolbox and are the engine.
Scavenging Ooze = Just an amazing creature, a bomb against other creature decks and graveyard based decks (Dredge/Reanimator)
Hornet Nest = Just an experiment, might be better being another Yisan, the Wandering Bard.
Reclamation Sage = Have a feeling this card is going to be very good for the next year.
Reverent Hunter = Because sometimes you just need a cheap beater.
Karametra's Acolyte = The "5th" Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in this deck.
Briarback Alpha = A combat trick when we need it.
Polukranos, World Eater = Amazing card, even better with all the ramp and devotion.
Nylea's Disciple = When you need to gain life.
Nylea, God of the Hunt = Helps with getting through chump blockers, and is a great pumper when needed.
Garruk's Packleader = An Experiment, potential draw engine with all of our big creatures. Might be better if paired with Soul of Zendikar.
Nessian Game Warden = Replaces itself.
Arbor Colossus = Cheap big guy that kills fliers.
Soul of New Phyrexia = 6/6 Trampler for 6 mana in a ramp deck, sounds good to me, and it helps fight removal/sweepers.
Kalonian Twingrove = Two potential big creatures for the price of one card.
Hydra Broodmaster = I like it against other creature/midrange decks.
Hornet Queen = Excellent answer against Elspeth, Sun's Champion and against other creature/midrange decks.
Sylvan Primordial = Kills pesky 'walkers and other troublesome permanents.
Brindle Boar = Cheap life gain for when you really need it.
Setessan Starbreaker = Another experiment, seems decent against Hexproof/Bestow decks.
Archetype of Endurance = An expensive answer to spot removal.
Overall, like the theory of the deck. Might be better to drop some of the one-ofs and add more of the "bombs" (Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, Polukranos, World Eater, Arbor Colossus, Soul of New Phyrexia, Soul of Zendikar, etc.)
Let me know what you guys think.
EDIT: Also, going with Golden Hind for the simple fact that it can attack. Sylvan Caryatid is amazing, but I don't need the mana fixing.
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
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But um.. why no Courser of Kruphix? It's our best green creature..
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
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Personally, I'm going for Yisan in U/G, with Prophet of Kruphix and Kiora's Follower.
T1 - Elf
T2 - Follower
T3 - Prophet; untap on their turn, cast Yisan
T4 - Yisan a 1 drop; untap on their turn, Yisan a 2 drop
T5 - Yisan a 3 drop and 4 drop; untap on their turn, Yisan a 5 drop and 6 drop. Grab Prime Speaker Zegana against anything that doesn't have board wipes; otherwise grab Soul of New Phyrexia.
Alternately
T1 - Elf
T2 - Follower
T3 - Prophet; Courser
T4 - If you have Nykthos, produce 10 mana and Chord of Calling out a Soul of New Phyrexia (or a Genesis Hydra for 8 and hope you hit it); untap and be pretty invincible
Except it has synergy with Nykthos, Reverent Hunter, Nylea, Nylea's Disciple, Karametra's Acolyte and Genesis Hydra.
I like synergy.
Yes, this is true. But if I'm casting Chord of Calling for 3, my target's are going to be in this order:
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
then either Reverent Hunter if I need a beater or Reclamation Sage if I need to kill something (like Courser of Kruphix)
Courser of Kruphix would be the last choice out of the 3 CMC slot sadly, even Hornet Nest has more potential against agro/midrange decks.
Don't get me wrong, I think Courser of Kruphix is an amazing card. But I really think that his overall impact is going to go down as more and more people play the card because green is also the best color to fight it (bigger creatures and Enchantment removal).
But like I said, I will keep it in mind, I just don't really consider it something that I want to play as a 1-of but something that I want to play as a 4-of, which kind of goes against the principle of this deck.
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
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Modern: UWR Control
EDH: Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Phelddagrif
Glissa, the Traitor
Rosheen Meanderer
RIP Jimmy foREVer
You give up a lot to go with a 2/1 creature that can be removed easily... vs an 0/3 blocker that can't be removed as easily. Just my 2cents.
I am going to be changing the deck list up a little bit. I feel that I want at least one more Yisan, the Wanderer Bard just in case of Thoughtseize or removal as he can snow ball a game very quickly. Right now I'm thinking that I want to move the Hornet Nest into the sideboard, drop the Nessian Game Warden, add a Polukranos, World Eater into the main deck and the second Yisan, the Wanderer Bard.
I also really want to use Soul of Zendikar as a means to make Garruk's Packleader a true draw engine (paying 3GG for a 3/3 and drawing a card seems very good against certain decks). I'm thinking that Soul of New Phyrexia might be a better sideboard card (probably in place of Archetype of Endurance). I completely blanked on Phyrexian Revoker and I will be finding a spot for those, probably 1 main and 2 in the side board.
Right now I'm going to go back to the drawing board and looking to lower the curve overall, but I'm not sure. Right now the curve is:
7 CMC = 2
6 CMC = 3
5 CMC = 3
4 CMC = 5
3 CMC = 4
2 CMC = 9
1 CMC = 4
Which I guess isn't that bad overall as it provides us options.
This is the deck list I'm pondering right now:
4 Genesis Hydra
1 Hornet Queen
1 Soul of Zendikar
1 Kalonian Twingrove
1 Arbor Colossus
1 Garruk's Packleader
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea's Disciple
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Reverent Hunter
2 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Golden Hind
4 Voyaging Satyr
2 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Chord of Calling
2 Setessan Tactics
Land - 22
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
18 Forest
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
2 Arbor Colossus
2 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Nylea's Disciple
1 Brindle Boar
3 Reclamation Sage
1 Hornet Nest
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Phyrexian Revoker
Let me know what you think of that list. Added Setessan Tactics so that we have a way of interacting against other creature and devotion decks (wish that we had a Haste enabler).
7 CMC = 1
6 CMC = 2
5 CMC = 2
4 CMC = 5
3 CMC = 4
2 CMC = 10
1 CMC = 4
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There's a reason why you're allowed up to 4 of a single card as well as a separate format for singletons. They just don't go together unless you enjoy losing every game.
I mean, I see what you're going for, I do, but some of the singletons are absolute worthless; why have one Karametra's Acolyte when you can have one more Polukranos or a Scavenging Ooze?
As for Karametra's Acolyte, it's there for devotion mirror matches.
I've been pondering the thought of adding a color. Right now I like Blue (see Reid Duke's article on Channelfireball.com), Red and Black.
Red gives us Polis Crusher, Soul of Shandalar, Xenagos, God of Revels, and Stormbreath Dragon.
Blue gives us Prime Speaker Zegana, Kiora's Follower, Prophet of Kruphix, and Aetherling.
Black gives us Doomwake Giant, Brain Maggot, Pharika, God of Affliction, Agent of Erebos, and Golgari Charm.
If I do end up going black, I will probably add in Eidolon of Blossoms. Another thing is if a second color is added, the land count will go up and will make Courser of Kruphix a better option.
The biggest thing is I'm just throwing ideas up to get feedback, so thank you for that. I will add that I want to keep it Mono-Green as I am working with a budget at the moment.
What would you recommend for a Mono-Green list?
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Do you know what Toolbox means? Did you ever saw Birthing Pod decks? It's the same baseline. Of course it won't work so well like Pod, this guy is trying.
Edit: On the spell side of things, what I came up with was identical, tactics and X4 Chord seem 100% mandatory mainboard. Lets take a look at the shell for this deck:
25 Total Spells with 3 Land
Leaving us with 13 more slots to fill in.
A 1 of Hornet Queen seems mandatory as it's a great defensive and offensive option.
Now we have 12 Slots. I suggest for filtering, life gain and devotion we have to add in 3Courser of Kruphix as well as 4 Eidolon of Blossoms.
5 Slots left. Adding in 1 more Polukranos and Nylea to keep a lower curve with high threat presence while being less reliant on Chord of Calling to find meaningful threats seems good.
A reactionary 1 of card with a ton of application I mention above was Invasive Species. I like this kind of effect A LOT. I used it to great effect last standard season with Emancipation Angel.
2 Slots. I hate losing to Stormbreath Dragon. Arbor Colossus X3 seems like the best option to fill in our air defense while once again adding to our devotion strategy.
Stormbreath Dragon and Desecration Demon and Mono Blue Devotion are everywhere so I auto include 1 Deadly Recluse into all my mono green lists now, it also has synergy with Tactics. I don't think any number of Genesis Hydra is correct in this deck. More card draw and filtering is what the deck needs to stay ahead. I think for win conditions, Nylea, God of the Hunt and something else should fit the bill, what the something else is is up for debate.
So to recap for each CMC slot we have:
A couple of thoughts I've had, while browsing here and following the more aggro-centric Mono-G thread;
#1 - The decision to splash a color or not, right now I'm thinking no. The biggest reason is, right now we're operating/deckbuilding on the axis of "how much self-interaction" does this list provide? We're essentially figuring out the nuts and bolts of consistency, self-interaction, and what can this deck do on it's own with it's own resources. The metagame come october could completely warp everything, making Green decks look like something none of us envisioned now. A good example of this would be this current Standard's Jund Monsters - a lot of card choices in that deck are reactionary, it's very much an "in response to the meta + the mirror" thing. We're nowhere near approaching that point yet, so I think it's best to figure out simply what works best for us, and not care about the what-if meta that much.
White Splash
- My first draw is towards white, mainly for Voice of Resurgence, (at least while it's still around). Voice and some elements of Selesnya to me seem mechanically positioned to really take advantage of Convoke (ability to make more dudes, and always have dudes around more so than other colors). Biggest turnoff from White; Karametra, God of Harvests. The biggest appeal in being a Chord deck to me, is getting to run 1-of on Gods, and the appeal of a splash is getting a 1-of dual color God, but Karametra is pretty weak in general.
Black Splash
- I'm leaning against this at first glance. I like what a lot of GB decks are doing with cards like Garruk, Apex Predator + Vraska the Unseen, but those decks are structured completely differently (lots of removal) and more traditionally Rock style. Black doesn't really add any more explosive power or another dimension to our creatures, IMO, it just pulls us into wanting to play a longer, grindier game. Which is fine too, for instance, Pharika seems reasonable to splash for, but I wouldn't splash black for her alone. Shadowborn Demon seems excellent in a lot of ways to me, we have cheap creatures to feed him with, and Chord of Calling can possibly cast him for entirely green mana, if we're not heavily splashing black, at instant speed. More exploration needed here, I think, this is just me spitballing a few cards that jump out to me for splashing.
Blue Splash
- Reid Duke's article really covered the bases here, and he has been a champion proponent of Bant decks for a long time now. I'll definitely defer to his choices here. Blue is very easy to splash, since it has Yavimaya Coast instead of Temple of Mystery and has a lot of mirror breaking options (Cyclonic Rift). Just as a preference for splashing, I'd rather do Blue or Black simply because they have access to faster mana at the moment.
Red Splash
- Xenagos, God of Revels, Xenagos, the Reveler. I say with complete certainty that cards like Stormbreath Dragon and Soul of Shandalar are only going to dilute and weaken any green devotion we have going on. I've tried green devotion / Monsters hybrids, and it really feels better to commit to one or the other. I honestly like Red the least here, with the exception of Xenagod, the whole point of adding Red is to make the deck "more explosive" or "hastier", yet adding another color, even a light splash may slow down the rest of things a tad (or make mana more painful).
#2 - Respecting aggro - this is my only rule of caring about the meta at the start of new seasons. Aggro decks are always advantaged, because nothing is fully figured out yet. If anything, this would skew me more towards Courser of Kruphix, although I'm very much in agreement with you on your reasons for excluding it, Sslater. It's a very low priority to fetch at 3 CMC, and the land count isn't there. There's certainly other ways we are respecting aggro anyway - Nylea's Disciple, Scooze, etc.
#3 - Biggest reason *not* to splash - Nissa. I know you're leaning towards keeping your lists budget (Sslater), but I'm heavily exploring the decks that can be built around Nissa. If she has a home here, she really doesn't like non-forests, from my limited testing already, I've been doing entirely Forest + 4x Nykthos type land bases, and even one Nykthos (instead of another Forest) in play can change my decision on whether to cast her or not. This really makes her more of a turn 5 play most of the time for me, instead of ramping her out T4, as she'll on average only untap 3 lands the turn she comes down. Which is fine, I'm just stressing that she is not okay with splashing anything. The biggest advantage she offers MonoGreen really is another angle of attack against control decks - animating lands is very good for us, since this "play tons of dudes" strategy is very much arguably playing straight into sweepers, we need all the resilience we can get IMO.
TLDR: weaknesses or areas I'm focusing on; cards that give us resilience to fight through removal/sweepers - Nissa, Worldwaker, Voice of Resurgence, Boon Satyr, Soul of Zendikar, and, focused on surviving/beating aggro.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
I'm aware of what a toolbox deck is and I'm aware that it's VERY VERY hard to do in today's standard. With a smaller cardpool compared to legacy and modern, you simply don't have as many "tools", ESPECIALLY if you're going a mono color.
I'm trying to help by offering up the hard truth. You want to be competitive or you want to kitchen table. It sounds like the OP wants to be competitive.
You're kind of going in the opposite direction. If you go a second color, you want less creatures with double colors in their cmc, in theory.
I like a small black splash to go with a mono green. Even post rotation I really like green splashing (no double swamp costs) black.
I'll post what I'm shooting for post rotation in a bit
Just due to the nature of the format now, and the lower power level of bombs (in all colors) in general, and lack of much inevitability (as compared to previously Wolf Run Ramp / Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle for instance) - we are forced to play the longer, grind it out games.
Some of the tutorables really are situational, some of them decent. I just completely doubt whether Yisan himself is worth it or not, so far I'm leaning towards no, because he really is slow to get going before you see a return on him, plus removal is so heavily played, so I would rather build around Chord entirely. Reid Duke's Simic/Bant take on Yisan is powerful if unchecked, but that's only relevant in midrange vs midrange type matchups where there's no interaction, it's a "who can go bigger" type board stall. Good points though, it is the "harsh truth".
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
I agree with all of this. I'll see what black can splash and make some edits to my above post.
It's one thing to talk about a mono green tool kit in a vacuum, but it's a total other thing to actually back up your claim. Please do tell what either of the above lists would do against MBD, MUD, U/W control or Jund Monsters on a consistent basis. These are the power houses in Standard right now. I simply do not believe that a mono green tool box can stand up to any of these decks which you see everywhere. Given the option, I'd rather play Green devotion with or without a splash. It's also tough to tool box with the creatures in the colors right now because only a few actually do something when they come down. I'd rather have a Plummet as a one of in the main, or a Ranger's Guile as stupid as that sounds simply because it's more of an answer to X than a Hind, a Soul, a Colossus, an Acolyte, a Hunter etc etc. Reclamation Sage and Phyrexian Revoker are two great toolbox creatures because they impact the board the turn they hit the table. IMO until green gets more creatures like that, a tool box deck will only be half full.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Quickling
3 Hornet Nest
4 Master Biomancer
2 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Setessan Tactics
3 Genesis Hydra
4 Chord of Calling
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Mercurial Pretender
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Arbor Colossus
1 Kalonian Twingrove
2 Nyktos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Breeding Pool
4 Yavimaya Coast or 2 islands + 2 Evolving Wilds
I'm looking to stabilize in the early game with a x=3 chord of calling to bring a hornet's nest in after they've declared attackers... and make myself 3-4 deathtouch flying tokens.
Sideboard options:
Aetherling
Phyrexian Revoker
Scavenging Ooze
Back to Nature
Sylvan Primordial
Soul of New Phyrexia
Uh, sure, what claim? You know, I was actually agreeing with you, that the "harsh truth" is that toolboxing is nowhere near as good as it used to be. I was trying to encourage more explanation "why" it's bad now vs then, as you can't just tell a player who wasn't around then that "this just sucks compared to how it used to be". Followed by some generic overlook on the format, why the bombs you can tutor aren't that good, etc.
Nowhere am I championing a full on toolbox build, or did you need that spelled out for you? There's certainly some good cards that already deserved inclusion, such as Nylea. Reclamation Sage, Scooze, those are easy to justify 1-of's. The simple biggest upgrade in Chord of Calling is that now I can cut down on the number of actual Nylea's I run, but am still effectively running a full 3-4 copies of her, in the form of Chords. If there are a "few creatures" that can be good enough on their own, but aren't worth playing high quantities of, then are we "trying to force toolboxing?" Or just optimizing and benefiting on the side from the tools we're given?
I'm totally fine with that, and want to work with what works first. If that means an incomplete toolbox, but an otherwise fully solid midrange green devotion core, I'll take it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
I will say that on further thinking that I think that Genesis Hydra will be better in a full on Devotion list using stuff like Kalonian Tusker.
Just not sure where to take the list, but I really think that Yisan, the Wanderer Bard is very underrated. His major weakness is that he is a little slow.
Let's look at possible creatures to use at each CMC.
Deathrite Shaman
Dryad Militant
Elvish Mystic
Experiment One
Gladecover Scout
Sedge Scorpion
Wasteland Viper
Bassara Tower Archer
Brushstrider
Burning-Tree Emissary
Golden Hind
Gyre Sage
Kalonian Tusker
Manaweft Sliver
Phyrexian Revoker
Scavenging Ooze
Skylasher
Swordwise Centaur
Sylvan Caryatid
Voyaging Satyr
Wall of Mulch
Boon Satyr
Brindle Boar
Courser of Kruphix
Hornet Nest
Reclamation Sage
Reverent Hunter
Witchstalker
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Briarpack Alpha
Eidolon of Blossoms
Nylea, God of the Hunt
Nylea's Disciple
Polukranos, World Eater
Setessan Starbreaker
Arbor Colossus
Garruk's Packleader
Kalonian Hydra
Nessian Game Warden
Hydra Broodmaster
Kalonian Twingrove
Scuttling Doom Engine
Soul of New Phyrexia
Soul of Zendikar
Hornet Queen
Sylvan Primordial
Archetype of Endurance
Mistcutter Hydra
Genesis Hydra
I have been thinking that in all honesty, that going Gw is the best option, and it has nothing to do with Voice of Resurgence.
Judge's Familiar
Soldier of the Pantheon
Aegis of the Gods
Azorius Arrester
Fleecemane Lion
Imposing Sovereign
Keening Apparition
Nyx-Fleece Ram
Spirit of Labyrinth
Voice of Resurgence
Auramancer
Banisher Priest
Boros Reckoner
Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Centaur Healer
Eidolon of Countless Battles
Eidolon of Rhetoric
Fiendslayer Paladin
Loxodon Smiter
Azorius Justiciar
Heliod, God of the Sun
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Archangel of Thune
Scion of Vitu-Ghazi
Armada Wurm
Angel of Serenity
Luminate Primordial
Quarry Colossus
Resolute Archangel
Silent Sentinel
Adding white gives the deck a little bit more of a "hate bear" feel to it, by either shutting down Burn/Discard early, handicapping card draw, slowing down haste, creature removal, big beaters, etc. Just sucks that GW doesn't get a Pain Land like the enemy pairs.
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My youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/user/sslater22710