If we're going to Madcap Skills it, it's hard enough to block; if we Ensoul Artifact, it's hard enough to kill with damage. I think we might as well run Bronze Sable at 2 instead.
At 3 cost, there's Izzet Keyrune, but that's pretty slow. There's Pillar of War, which synergizes okay with Madcap Skills I guess, but 3 mana also makes that pretty slow.
Edit: Thinking about it though, the ability to attack into whatever could be useful with Bident of Thassa or Military Intelligence, so maybe it could work.
How do you all think the land base will hold up when Steam Vents rotates out with Khans? We already have Shivan Reef, so I don't think we're getting another dual. Mana Confluence should do us okay though, and maybe we'll see UWR get better when the UW painland shows up; but all of that is a lot of self-damage which might make our aggro/ RW burn matchup weaker.
Thinking about swaping the 4 Lightning Strikes for a 19th land and 2 Bronze Sable and put in my 4th shrapnel blast back. Yeah they are vannila but they have high interaction with rest of deck might be worth it.
Fair enough, And I don't think I am going to invest in the SB just yet. Going to wait to see what wins the first couple Star City Weekend Tourneys to see what the meta is. My LGS seems to worship what wins there.
Well if you can Ornithopter it out or whatever it goes great, but unlike Scuttling Doom Engine (which also requires a little setup) it doesn't have the capability to immediately win you the game, which is why we run the crab and not the angel. I too am having trouble finding something that works in that slot; Ral Zarek is my favorite thus far because at worst he's a bolt + 1 of the enemy's removal spells (or 2x bolt), and at best his ult will almost certainly win you the game; but he's also pretty slow and there might be more efficiency we could get.
What do you all think of for a replacement for Madcap Skills when it rotates out? I had a couple of people on Cockatrice suggest Inferno Fist. It seems a lot weaker, at 1 less damage and no pseudo-unblockable, but the shock definitely has utility -- if your Inferno Fist'd Ornithopter gets Magma Sprayed, you can just sac it to put 2 more damage through to the opponent or to whatever you want off of the board.
I am not going to think about rotation until we know what the next set will have in it. There is no point to speculate or plan that far ahead not having any idea whatsoever what the new set will have. It have have a good replacement, or something that wreaks our deck. Only time will tell.
I am giving Ral Zarek a shot to see how he is...so far not so bad but is a bit much for the curve.
I am not going to think about rotation until we know what the next set will have in it. There is no point to speculate or plan that far ahead not having any idea whatsoever what the new set will have. It have have a good replacement, or something that wreaks our deck. Only time will tell.
I am giving Ral Zarek a shot to see how he is...so far not so bad but is a bit much for the curve.
I was not impressed with Ral when I tried him. Sure he is a bolt, but he felt slow. At turn 4 I feel like i need to be ahead on the board and he doesn't help with that. I think Chandra would be better just because of her -0 ability. Her ping is ok, if you need to sneak some damage by too. She still feels too slow.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Why is that? From Innistrad forwards, every cycle of dual lands has been the full 10, I see no reason to suddenly stop now.
I really hope reanimator becomes a thing in Standard with these sets; I got to side in Tormod's Crypt playing someone's WBG reanimator brew a few times today, and it fits with the rest of the deck magically.
I am not going to think about rotation until we know what the next set will have in it. There is no point to speculate or plan that far ahead not having any idea whatsoever what the new set will have. It have have a good replacement, or something that wreaks our deck. Only time will tell.
What this guy said. Post-rotation discussion is off-topic. Please keep that in mind.
If we were to run a playset of Mana Confluence instead of basics in theory we could run SB spells that are any color. Would it be viable to run SB tech that is other colors you think? Would it help if we ran like 1 or 2 pains/shocks that are the off colors? I have seen other decks run 1 or 2 off lands just for this reason.
I don't know if that few off color lands would give you the mana you need to cast off color spells. As my list has a touch of white for the boros charm and sb cards, I run 8 white sources, plus 2 mana confluence. Even if I cut the boros charms, I'd probably still run at least 7, as you can have them in there in place of basics and I would hate to have a key SB card and no mana to cast it.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
My only issue with a playset of Mana Confluence, if we end up with it being 2 or more of our lands in a game, is that suddenly our mana base hurts a ton regardless of whether we need it. An alternative is to just run a playset of the appropriate painland+shockland for one other color; that way half is colorless+painless while we don't need it for SB tech, and then we can pay the cost when we do. I can't imagine where we'd need a 5-color sideboard; even 4 is hard to imagine not being able to find replacements for in the other colors.
aaaaaaaaand I don't know the rest
The original blue skies was 20 spells, 16 creatures, 4 mana rocks and 20 lands.
It had crazy cheap spells that we don't have, but our creature base is better.
Because everything is so cheap, it should leave mana open for countermagic, perhaps that should fill the slots.
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The red mage lives by the variance and dies by the variance. May the variance be with you, always.
That deck is not Affinity. The only thing it has in common with Affinity is the Ensoul Artifact synergies. It doesn't play Chief Engineer or any other form of acceleration, and it only plays eight artifacts (counting Darksteel Citadel).
Also, that list has some major flaws. Ornithopter does nothing half the time you draw it, and there will be quite a few games where you have an Ensoul Artifact sitting in your hand. Welkin Tern and Vaporkin are terrible when there's nothing that has any synergy with them. Cloudfin Raptor will almost never grow larger than a 2/3. Your only sizable creature aside from Ensoul Artifact is Illusory Angel, which often doesn't come down until turn 5. And there is the question of "why not just play Blue Devotion?"
tl;dr Sorry, but I'm really not a fan of your list.
I haven't had an opportunity to test it against anything jsut yet, but from what I've been able to test w/ the Decked Builder app it seems to curve pretty well and the higher number of 1 drops should make the convoke much more consistent from the engineer. The Judge's Familiars should also help my enchanted creatures from getting removed before being able to push through some damage.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares. This is probably spam.
I've been gold fishing the deck on Tapped Out to try and figure out what my lines of play are, what cards to value, and how things work together. Here's what I've learned.
I prefer Generator Servant over Chief Engineer 8 times out of 10. Haste is huge and is the number 1 reason to add red. Shrapnel Blast is number 2. That said I am going to remove 1 Chief Engineer and run a total of 3 now. Still need something to fill that slot. I will probably add another Hoarding Dragon because I often find I don't have anything to ramp into. Unless of course something better comes along.
Scry helps a lot. Seeing Omenspeaker is nice but kind of sucks that it takes up the same slot as Generator Servant and Chief Engineer. Basically it comes down to: Do I play Omenspeaker and try and fix my draws so I get the SDE but then I am not ready to draw it because I don't have my ramp out or do I play my ramp and home I just naturally draw the SDE. Having Hoarding Dragon helps because it gives me another decent ramp target. For now I will stick with just two Omenspeaker. Sometimes just not drawing it cuts down on the weirdness but seeing it late game helps you avoid land flood.
Dakra Mystic has got to be a staple in the UR version. It works so well with 10 sources of Scry and helps you dig really fast when you really have nothing else to play. I'm not sure yet how it will interact with an opponent but it could be nice to just ditch their removal if you see it. It would be better if we had some sort of yard interaction. The new Jace would also be a great addition to the deck if this were the case. Is there any card in U/R you guys can think of that would help out a grave interaction? Spite of Mogis and Spellheart Chimera come to mind but that's really it.
I run 22 land. I see a lot of people run fewer. I honestly can't imagine that but I also run a decent amount of Scry and Dakra so I filter it out pretty easily. I'll post my list below and maybe someone can give me suggestions on what to add or change regarding my mana base or if maybe it is appropriate for my list since I also run 3 5-drops.
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You're forgetting the other + -- it's mana ramping when you don't have Chief Engineer out. That said, I've cut it from my lists at this point, but I think some decks (especially UWR lists) do benefit from the mana fixing/ramping it offers.
I think Springleaf Drum is absolutely worth it. It functions in a similar capacity to Chief Engineer but also allows us to tap creatures to pay for non-artifact spells. I wouldn't run it as a 4-of but I wouldn't cut it altogether either. It functions best as a 2 or 3-of.
In my list I run Dakra Mystic. I often want to tap out for things like Magma Jet, Omenspeaker, etc. or want to drop a Temple of Epiphany prior to activating Dakra. Having a Springleaf Drum lets me tap out or use up my mana for other things and still activate the draw from Dakra by tapping an Ornithopter or Omenspeaker. The mana fixing to make sure I have the blue available to activat Dakra is also nice. If you are in U/R I cannot recommend Dakra Mystic enough, especially if you are more on the combo plan and are not running Madcap Skills, which I do not.
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At 3 cost, there's Izzet Keyrune, but that's pretty slow. There's Pillar of War, which synergizes okay with Madcap Skills I guess, but 3 mana also makes that pretty slow.
Edit: Thinking about it though, the ability to attack into whatever could be useful with Bident of Thassa or Military Intelligence, so maybe it could work.
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Scuttling Doom Engine
3 Generator Servant
3 Chief Engineer
4 Cloudfin Raptor
2 Bronze Sable
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Madcap Skills
4 Magma Jet
2 Bident of Thassa
4 Shivan Reef
4 Steam Vents
4 Mountain
3 Island
3 Negate
2 Polymorpher's Jest
3 Darksteel Ingot
2 Dispel
2 Ral Zarek
3 Izzet Charm
4x Ornithopter
4x Generator Servant
3x Scuttling Doom Engine
3x Illusory Angel
4x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Cloudfin Raptor
4x Ensoul Artifact
4x Madcap Skills
Artifacts
2x Bident of Thassa
Spells
4x Shrapnel Blast
2x Magma Jet
4x Steam Vents
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Shivan Reef
6x Island
3x Mountain
This is what I am thinking now. Thoughts? I know it still needs a sideboard.
What do you all think of for a replacement for Madcap Skills when it rotates out? I had a couple of people on Cockatrice suggest Inferno Fist. It seems a lot weaker, at 1 less damage and no pseudo-unblockable, but the shock definitely has utility -- if your Inferno Fist'd Ornithopter gets Magma Sprayed, you can just sac it to put 2 more damage through to the opponent or to whatever you want off of the board.
edit: spelling
I am giving Ral Zarek a shot to see how he is...so far not so bad but is a bit much for the curve.
I was not impressed with Ral when I tried him. Sure he is a bolt, but he felt slow. At turn 4 I feel like i need to be ahead on the board and he doesn't help with that. I think Chandra would be better just because of her -0 ability. Her ping is ok, if you need to sneak some damage by too. She still feels too slow.
Why is that? From Innistrad forwards, every cycle of dual lands has been the full 10, I see no reason to suddenly stop now.
I really hope reanimator becomes a thing in Standard with these sets; I got to side in Tormod's Crypt playing someone's WBG reanimator brew a few times today, and it fits with the rest of the deck magically.
What this guy said. Post-rotation discussion is off-topic. Please keep that in mind.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
10 cards short
4 Ornithopter
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Sages Familiar
4 Welkin Tern
4 Vaporkin
3 Illusory Angel
4 Ensoul Artifact
3 Military Intelligence
Lands (20)
16 Island
4 Darksteel Citadel
aaaaaaaaand I don't know the rest
The original blue skies was 20 spells, 16 creatures, 4 mana rocks and 20 lands.
It had crazy cheap spells that we don't have, but our creature base is better.
Because everything is so cheap, it should leave mana open for countermagic, perhaps that should fill the slots.
Also, that list has some major flaws. Ornithopter does nothing half the time you draw it, and there will be quite a few games where you have an Ensoul Artifact sitting in your hand. Welkin Tern and Vaporkin are terrible when there's nothing that has any synergy with them. Cloudfin Raptor will almost never grow larger than a 2/3. Your only sizable creature aside from Ensoul Artifact is Illusory Angel, which often doesn't come down until turn 5. And there is the question of "why not just play Blue Devotion?"
tl;dr Sorry, but I'm really not a fan of your list.
4 Ornithopter
4 Cloudfin Raptor
3 Judge's Familiar
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chief Engineer
4 Generator Servant
4 Scuttling Doom Engine
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Madcap Skills
3 Shrapnel Blast
2 Bident of Thassa
Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Shivan Reef
4 Temple of Epiphany
2 Steam Vents
4 Island
3 Mountain
I haven't had an opportunity to test it against anything jsut yet, but from what I've been able to test w/ the Decked Builder app it seems to curve pretty well and the higher number of 1 drops should make the convoke much more consistent from the engineer. The Judge's Familiars should also help my enchanted creatures from getting removed before being able to push through some damage.
URURxUR
UWUWxUW
4x Ornithopter
4x Dakra Mystic
2x Omenspeaker
3x Chief Engineer
4x Generator Servant
3x Hoarding Dragon
4x Scuttling Doom Engine
3x Shrapnel Blast
4x Magma Jet
4x Ensoul Artifact
3x Springleaf Drum
LANDS (22)
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Temple of Epiphany
4x Shivan Reef
5x Island
5x Mountain
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
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In my list I run Dakra Mystic. I often want to tap out for things like Magma Jet, Omenspeaker, etc. or want to drop a Temple of Epiphany prior to activating Dakra. Having a Springleaf Drum lets me tap out or use up my mana for other things and still activate the draw from Dakra by tapping an Ornithopter or Omenspeaker. The mana fixing to make sure I have the blue available to activat Dakra is also nice. If you are in U/R I cannot recommend Dakra Mystic enough, especially if you are more on the combo plan and are not running Madcap Skills, which I do not.
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