Happy Shaman, I feel like your deck can't decide if it wants to be Death and Taxes or Aggro...but perhaps it is just the right balance between the two...how has it done in play testing so far?
I like to call it Death and Taxes to my non-MTG playing friends. But, I call it EnchantPing behind the curtain.
Playtesting is going well. I have yet to take it to an event, as I lack most of the physical cards. Toughest match=up on Cockatrice has been the weird G/W deck floating around.
PROTIP: The idea is to create a system of threats that won't fall apart on its own. Hence my rebuttal regarding the M15 demon (that even fits a budget!). Yeah, use your removal on it. But my board is the same as it was, and if Atheros is there...
That's a fantastic list!
I really don't plan to make any more changes until M15 hits the streets. I'm envisioning a meta full of tokens, pump effects, and mass removal.
Hero is a freaking HOUSE. I know my list is focused more on Bestow than on Heroic but if you have not tried him out I highly suggest you do so. My gameplan lately has been land a Hero, protect with with Gods Willing, Bestow it with literally antyhing, swing with wreckless abandon until I win. Usually a second Gods Willing granting protection for evasion is the alpha strike. That or Ultimate Price/Orzhov Charm removing relevant blockers. Or Rogue's Passage granting unblockable. Herald of Torment is another allstar. Gods Willing is a godsend. The protection aspect helps so much while I'm assembling Voltron. The scry is a nice bonus. It interacts especially well with Hero by buffing him.
I'm considering switching out the Archon for Spiteful Returned. The only thing is that the Archon is better on an empty board where Spiteful is better with Hero.
Regarding the Archon vs Spiteful argument, and I may be the only one who has noticed this, but the only good removal spells post rotation will be able to take out creatures with 3 toughness or less (Lightning Strike, Bile Blight, Ulcerate). This makes the Archon WAY better with a toughness of 4.
There are 4 cards I'm losing and I have no idea how I am going to replace them.
-Rogue's Passage: This card helps more than you would think. Losing it is not crippling but definitely worth noting.
-Ultimate Price: Ouch. This really hurts. Removing opposing threats or simply paving the way for alpha strikes, I run 8 removal between my MD and SB for a reason.
-Orzhov Charm: Still hurts. I don't think I've ever used any mode other than the removal mode. Losing the life kind of stinks but its is still unconditional removal when I need it and if it enable and alpha strike who cares how much life I lose.
-Ethereal Armor: Ya know, it hurts but its not dire. It makes hands without Hero of Iroas more playable because you can just suit up a Hopeful Eidolon or Nyxborn early on and present a very real threat. Losing this doesn't take all of the potency out of the deck but it does remove some of its alternate lines of play.
Potential replacements:
-Ulcerate: A close replacement for Orzhov Charm (given the life loss). (+) It only costs 1 mana. (-) Its target range is limited to only creatures with toughness 3 or less. Like a Lightning Bolt with a draw back but it also can't go to the face (well, other than my face). Does not remove Courser of Kruphix and that is a HUGE problem.
-Bile Blight: Also limited to targets with toughness 3 or less. It can be a combat trick but I really want hard removal. BB casting cost is kind of hard for this deck. Really good against tokens and armies of mana dorks. Does not remove Courser of Kruphix and that is a HUGE problem.
-Crippling Blight: It prevents blocking for only 1cmc which helps push through Alpha strikes. It does not kill Courser of Kruphix but it does prevent it from resisting my attacks.
-Oppressive Rays: With ramp running around everywhere this gets way worse. Also without Ethereal Armor it loses potency.
-Eternal Thirst: Potential replacement for Ethereal Armor. Honestly I'm not sure that's really necessary to replace. Still this effect is pretty neat. It can make pretty much any creature a major threat. Lifelink is nice.
-Spectra Ward: Assuming I'm in a position where attacking won't leave me completely open to an alpha strike this card is game. Turns any creature into a formidible blocker. 5cmc is really steap and I still have to have a creature but man, dat upside doh.
Basically I need effecient removal. I still have both Ultimate Price and Orzhov Charm until Kahns comes out so I can still hope that replaces the removal I need.
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The problem with judging what we lose at rotation is that there is still a whole 'nother set coming out before we rotate out so it's kind of hard to speculate with 3 months to go...
Truth. I will say that if we don't get a 2cmc hard removal, even as much as a doom blade, the format is going to warp into ramp central.
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So here is what I'm thinking about for after M15. Spectra Ward is insanely powerful. Pilgrim of Heliod allows us to fish the 2 copies out of the deck. Its a chump and another body to enchant if we lose our other creature in response. I think that could be a strong addition. Post rotation it gives us something to replace Ethereal Armor, it provides a similar amount of evasion to Gods Willing and protection to similar to Hexproof. Adding Pilgrim of Heliod lets us run fewer copies to make those 2 copies of Spectra Ward work and we can add additional mana to support its additional cost. Though with Hero of Iroas its only 4 mana the same as Herald of Torment. I think this could work out well as long as we get some kind of worthwhile removal.
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Here's my concern with Wall of Limbs, if you begin getting close to 7 mana or it has enough +1/+1 counters on it that your opponent is worried about it they can kill it before you can get any value out of it. Because the activation cost is SO steep that it gives your opponent plenty of time to interact with it before it becomes a threat. Also, unless you are gaining life at a regular and reliable pace the opponent can just wait until it gets close to being relevenat, or again wait until you are at 6 mana or something, and then kill it.
tl;dr: I worry that its too much of a passive threat because it can't attack and the activation cost of its ability is so high it let's your opponent know exactly how much time they have left to deal with it so they can easily prioritize other targets.
On the other hand I think Spectra Ward will be really good. Hero of Iroas -> Heliod's Pilgrim -> Spectra Ward should put us in an extremely good position to be able to focus on just protecting ourselves.
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Hey just going to post my main deck for my version and I'll update this post when I get off work, anywhere here is the build I have been throwing around inside my head, once again I'll change the formatting when I get home.
Creatures:
4x Gnarled Scarhide
4x Hopeful Eidolon
3x Rakdos Cackler
3x Tormented Hero
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Underworld Coinsmith
3x Ajani's Pridemate
3x Athreos, God of Passage
3x Herald of Torment
Spells:
4x Ethereal Armor
3x Read the Bones
Land:
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Temple of Silence
4x Plains
3x Radiant Fountain
Tormented Hero, Underworld Coinsmith, Hopeful Eidolon, and Radiant Temple support Wall of Limbs well enough. If they kill Wall of Limbs before I can activate it... so what? The rest of my game plan is not disrupted.
EDIT: On second thought, the Defender attribute is what kills it. After several games tonight, the largest I had it was 4/7. If I could swing with it, it would make the deck.
Happy Shaman, I feel like your deck can't decide if it wants to be Death and Taxes or Aggro...but perhaps it is just the right balance between the two...how has it done in play testing so far?
Playtesting is going well. I have yet to take it to an event, as I lack most of the physical cards. Toughest match=up on Cockatrice has been the weird G/W deck floating around.
Its a nice buff, but dies to removal.
PROTIP: The idea is to create a system of threats that won't fall apart on its own. Hence my rebuttal regarding the M15 demon (that even fits a budget!). Yeah, use your removal on it. But my board is the same as it was, and if Atheros is there...
I really don't plan to make any more changes until M15 hits the streets. I'm envisioning a meta full of tokens, pump effects, and mass removal.
11 Plains
9 Swamp
2 Rogue's Passage
CREATURES (22)
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Nyxborn Shieldmate
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Herald of Torment
2 Celestial Archon
3 Gods Willing
3 Ultimate Price
3 Orzhov Charm
4 Ethereal Armor
Hero is a freaking HOUSE. I know my list is focused more on Bestow than on Heroic but if you have not tried him out I highly suggest you do so. My gameplan lately has been land a Hero, protect with with Gods Willing, Bestow it with literally antyhing, swing with wreckless abandon until I win. Usually a second Gods Willing granting protection for evasion is the alpha strike. That or Ultimate Price/Orzhov Charm removing relevant blockers. Or Rogue's Passage granting unblockable. Herald of Torment is another allstar. Gods Willing is a godsend. The protection aspect helps so much while I'm assembling Voltron. The scry is a nice bonus. It interacts especially well with Hero by buffing him.
I'm considering switching out the Archon for Spiteful Returned. The only thing is that the Archon is better on an empty board where Spiteful is better with Hero.
Regarding the Archon vs Spiteful argument, and I may be the only one who has noticed this, but the only good removal spells post rotation will be able to take out creatures with 3 toughness or less (Lightning Strike, Bile Blight, Ulcerate). This makes the Archon WAY better with a toughness of 4.
There are 4 cards I'm losing and I have no idea how I am going to replace them.
-Rogue's Passage: This card helps more than you would think. Losing it is not crippling but definitely worth noting.
-Ultimate Price: Ouch. This really hurts. Removing opposing threats or simply paving the way for alpha strikes, I run 8 removal between my MD and SB for a reason.
-Orzhov Charm: Still hurts. I don't think I've ever used any mode other than the removal mode. Losing the life kind of stinks but its is still unconditional removal when I need it and if it enable and alpha strike who cares how much life I lose.
-Ethereal Armor: Ya know, it hurts but its not dire. It makes hands without Hero of Iroas more playable because you can just suit up a Hopeful Eidolon or Nyxborn early on and present a very real threat. Losing this doesn't take all of the potency out of the deck but it does remove some of its alternate lines of play.
Potential replacements:
-Ulcerate: A close replacement for Orzhov Charm (given the life loss). (+) It only costs 1 mana. (-) Its target range is limited to only creatures with toughness 3 or less. Like a Lightning Bolt with a draw back but it also can't go to the face (well, other than my face). Does not remove Courser of Kruphix and that is a HUGE problem.
-Bile Blight: Also limited to targets with toughness 3 or less. It can be a combat trick but I really want hard removal. BB casting cost is kind of hard for this deck. Really good against tokens and armies of mana dorks. Does not remove Courser of Kruphix and that is a HUGE problem.
-Crippling Blight: It prevents blocking for only 1cmc which helps push through Alpha strikes. It does not kill Courser of Kruphix but it does prevent it from resisting my attacks.
-Oppressive Rays: With ramp running around everywhere this gets way worse. Also without Ethereal Armor it loses potency.
-Eternal Thirst: Potential replacement for Ethereal Armor. Honestly I'm not sure that's really necessary to replace. Still this effect is pretty neat. It can make pretty much any creature a major threat. Lifelink is nice.
-Spectra Ward: Assuming I'm in a position where attacking won't leave me completely open to an alpha strike this card is game. Turns any creature into a formidible blocker. 5cmc is really steap and I still have to have a creature but man, dat upside doh.
Basically I need effecient removal. I still have both Ultimate Price and Orzhov Charm until Kahns comes out so I can still hope that replaces the removal I need.
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4 Caves of Kolios
11 Plains
8 Swamp
CREATURES (22)
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Nyxborn Shieldmate
4 Hero of Iroas
4 Underworld Coinsmith
3 Pilgrim of Heliod
4 Herald of Torment
3 Gods Willing
3 Ultimate Price
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Spectra Ward
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If you think about it, the card puts us pretty close to Gary decks.
Sure, it has defender. But with our life gain and big butted creatures, pinging them and getting to seven mana is easy.
http://deckstats.net/deck-4416861-bd179a2600eeecf2cf1a12665d8a8492.html
-2 Ajani, -2 Obzedat
+4 Wall of Limbs
http://deckstats.net/deck-4504707-d7df4683c58722097695c9b6fada7658.html
I'll update this post with thoughts and theories as time goes on.
tl;dr: I worry that its too much of a passive threat because it can't attack and the activation cost of its ability is so high it let's your opponent know exactly how much time they have left to deal with it so they can easily prioritize other targets.
On the other hand I think Spectra Ward will be really good. Hero of Iroas -> Heliod's Pilgrim -> Spectra Ward should put us in an extremely good position to be able to focus on just protecting ourselves.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
Creatures:
4x Gnarled Scarhide
4x Hopeful Eidolon
3x Rakdos Cackler
3x Tormented Hero
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Underworld Coinsmith
3x Ajani's Pridemate
3x Athreos, God of Passage
3x Herald of Torment
Spells:
4x Ethereal Armor
3x Read the Bones
Land:
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Godless Shrine
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Temple of Silence
4x Plains
3x Radiant Fountain
EDIT: On second thought, the Defender attribute is what kills it. After several games tonight, the largest I had it was 4/7. If I could swing with it, it would make the deck.