I think you are mistaking Gnarled Scarhides drawback for an ability. Gnarled Scarhide is not unblockable, it is unable to block as in it cannot block your opponent's creatures when they are attacking you. That being said Nyxborn Shieldmate does help Brain Maggot get closer to being relevant. If you can get Brain Maggot over the 3 toughness hump you can keep it out of Burn reach making it better against Burn. The problem with that is that you are using multiple cards to make a bad card good which is typically, uh well, not good lol. I run both Gnarled and Shieldmate but again its a different focus.
My strategy against control is to "go under not over". I try and bum rush them as quickly as possible and use Duress to grab removal. I don't really care about their threats because I want to beat them before they become relevant. I push really hard for that turn 4 or 5 win. If I can't get it I fall back on Heliod and just try and activate Devotion. If I can't do that I spend my mana generating chumps until I can draw enough gas to get back in the game. Sometimes that gas comes in the form of Orzhov Charm recurring one of my 12 one drops. Spear of Heliod should also not be underestimated. With Ethereal Armor, Spear of Heliod is +2/+2 to the enchanted creature. It also makes recurring one drops far more relevant in the late game. A 2/2 late game is still not super awesome but its a start and it forces control decks to not swing with things like AEtherling because they will lose it after one swing, well minus the whole Hexproof ability but it forces them to play around the removal.
The thing I like about Bestow, especially cheap Bestow, is that it is a spot removal nightmare and helps to devalue sweepers by forcing them to use it to get rid of one creature only for you to end up with 1 or 2 to replace it, technically for free. My nut draw would be T1: Hopeful, T2: Ethereal + Other 1 drop, T:3 Bestow Nyxborn, T:4 Bestow Countless Battles. This is a spot removal nightmare and there isn't an Enchantment sweeper that costs less than 6 mana which gives you a lot of time.
EDIT: Oh one thing you might consider dropping Oppressive Rays against control if you don't already. Likely they are light enough on threats that it won't be needed between all of the other removal options you already have.
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I think you are mistaking Gnarled Scarhides drawback for an ability. Gnarled Scarhide is not unblockable, it is unable to block as in it cannot block your opponent's creatures when they are attacking you.
You can bestow Gnarled Scarhide on your opponents creatures making them be unable to block. Not a common occurrence but it could be a way to get lethal through on occasion.
*edit* Better yet, if you kill your opponents creature it was bestowed upon you get the creature back.
Holy crap. I never even thought of that. Nice tech!
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Against heavy spot removal I really lose steam on the aggro when I drop Grim Guardian. I'm going to try replacing him with 3 Brimaz. I'm also going to try replacing Armament with Spear of Heliod. I also may end up going back to Gnarled Scarhide over Shieldmate.
Mainboard Changes:
Gnarled Scarhide back in for a couple reasons, one of the biggest being Stormbreath Dragon. Playing Jund Monsters today, in a game I did end up winning I was set back 4 turns by Stormbreath. The extra power also means that when suited up with Ethereal armor he can potentially be a 5 power first strike on T2, typically by T3...and on his own w/Ethereal armor he's a 4 power first strike. Brimaz, King of Oreskos has replaced Grim Guardian in the mainboard for several reasons as well. Toughness is equal, ignoring the token. Brimaz has Vigilance, and more power which works in my aggro game plan. Grim Guardian did his role well when I played decks w/o spot removal, but versus the decks who could take out my early threats putting a 1/4 on the board wasn't very intimidating. Master of the Feast is back in for now with a 3/1 split in favor of Herald of Torment though I very may well go to a 2/2 or even 3/1 the other way. The fact of the matter is Master requires an answer, and when he's on the board it means other threats aren't getting answered. Finally Armament of Nyx was removed in place of Spear of Heliod. Armament can be beastly, especially on the back of a Master of the Feast, but with the addition of Brimaz, I feel his role diminishes and the Spear's role increases and it powers up Brimaz tokens and a bunch of already small creatures. I am strongly considering pulling a Spiteful Returned to get one more Spear in the mainboard.
Sideboard Changes:
Brain Maggot has been reduced to 1 copy to make room for two Hero's Downfall. One Underworld Connections has been removed to make room for a 3rd Thoughtseize. This gives me 8 card disruption cards, one of which is a creature, which I hope is enough, but further playtesting will be needed. I still will have two potential card draw options with Connections and Erebos, and most importantly it gives me a couple chances to remove more difficult to remove threats via Hero's Downfall.
Versus Control:
So I've played several matchups since the last update. Against UW Control I've gone 2-1 games wise. This is done mostly at lunch so we don't always have time...especially in that matchup to do more than 1 game. I won one game on the play T4, then presumably lost he second game post sideboard...though we both agreed to stop due to time. He seemed to have me locked down. Today we played another game 1 with me on the draw and I won that as well. Then tonight I played a match versus Esper and went 2-1, with both wins coming post sideboard.
Versus "Wide Aggro":
So I would consider something like white weenie that tries to get more creatures on the board than you can block but that is still able to leave enough back to chump you "wide aggro". I've played several red decks online like this as of late and have lost several close 1-2 matches in this matchup. At the same time I just won 2-1 against a Red Deck, but they were as much devotion as anything. All in all I find this to be a tough matchup as my success is often predicated on getting something, or a couple somethings so big so fast that they have to stay back to block leading to an attrition war in my favor. Unfortunately in a lot of cases this matchup gets wider faster than I can handle and the first strike of Ash Zealot in particular is a bad matchup against my early troops. Due to this I've added Drown in Sorrow and an extra Nyx-Fleece Ram to the sideboard.
Versus Jund Monsters":
Not a whole lot new to add here except that Stormbreath Dragon is a huge pain in my behind unless I can get a big black flyer out there. Often I can get this match out of reach before Stormbreath becomes an issue though.
Changes: Spiteful Returned was okay, but really just not pulling his weight. It always felt awkwardly placed, so I pulled both. I wanted to increase my odds of hitting the 1 drop and so I added a Nyxborn Shieldmate which more often than not I hope to cast a bestow, but as a worst case it's another Enchantment Creature. The other Spiteful was replaced with a Basilica Screecher. Now I know the Screecher sounds like a weird fit, but I really was hoping to get another flyer and at an earlier drop. The 1/2 body means with either Ethereal Armor or Spear of Heliod it can stay alive through Drown in Sorrow, and it has Extort which is a cheaper drain that Underworld Coinsmith gives and a good outlet for extra mana. So far in the games it has come out, I have preferred it to Spiteful Returned. Orzhov Charm while functionally relevant, I wanted to try Hero's Downfall in the main to give me more flexibility against what my opponents are bringing to the table...it also answers Stormbreath Dragon which Orzhov Charm can't. We'll see, while Downfall can handle walkers, the cost effectiveness of Ultimate Price is giving it some consideration. Brimaz, King of Oreskos is the bomb! So glad I made this move.
I've been considering dropping Spiteful Returned as well. The reach sounds nice but more often than not it ends up being "Sacrifice Spiteful Returned: Target player loses 2 life" because you just swing it into a wall. As a Bestow its not bad but not really good. I maxed out on 1 drops and don't run the Coinsmith but the Basilica Screecher idea is interesting. I still really like Countless Battles but sometimes I have an empty, or nearly so, board and he ends up just being a 3cmc 1/1. I wish he wasn't restricted to auras. That would make him a 3/3 (or maybe a 4/4 depending on how the rules view his card type) with Spear which I would be okay with. I've also been considering some number of Ultimate Price, probably in the board. I may end up switching Heliod with Brimaz. I was thinking that Brimaz would just be win more and that Heliod would save games I would have otherwise lost but it seems like its more often than not the other way around.
I see you still have the 1 of Herald of Torment and Blood Baron but you almost never talk about them? I would have dropped them by now but I'm assuming there is a reason you still have them?
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Well the Herald of Torment is just to give myself the occasional flying bestow or drop as a 3/3 in a pinch. It also fills the spot vacated by the 4th Master of the Feast. I still feel like putting Master of the Feast in at 3 of was the right call to limit how often I draw 2 of. I've considered going to a 2/2 split, but I still feel like I want to see Feast more often than that.
As for Blood Baron, he is a meta game call. He is very good against control and mono blackx strategies and so my hope is he will give me longevity in games that otherwise go longer than I'd already like. I often find him thoughtseized out in those matchups but he also tends to not make it to the board before the game ends. I've considered putting both in the side for something more often relevant, even for a 2nd Screecher but he's there for a Game 1 insurance policy.
Generally speaking it is recommended to have your mainboard be as consistent as possible and leave the specific answers/insurance policies to the sideboard. That being said I feel like cards like Blood Baron and Spirit of the Labyrinth are sideboard cards. Spirit doesn't is pointless against RDW/Burn decks. Their whole game plan is constructed on the idea that they can win before they need to refill their hand and so they don't run additional draw options. Obviously you could board these out but I could only see Spirit being good main deck if your meta runs a lot of G/B/x Eidolon of Blossoms decks or U/W Sphinx Rev control.
For Burn I could see having more Shieldmates main deck could be good. With an Ethereal Armor he is immediately out of burn range. At the same time they can always go over the top so that may not be the best plan. I think Duress, Brain Maggot, and Nyx-Fleece is a good plan.
Against control I don't know if I agree with removing the Spear. I've not played your version of the deck so take this with a grain of salt but i think the worst thing you can do against control is try to beat them at their own game and that's the long game plan. I would want to "go under" control. The Spear makes more of your guys threats which stretches their removal thin. I think Duress and Maggot are good options here. Maggot forces them to use removal to get their removal back which is a decent tempo play at the very least. Again, you test them to make sure they can keep up with you. Adding thing like Gnarled Scarhide w/ an Ethereal armor forces them to choose which to kill, the maggot to get their card back or the actual threat? Honestly the threat is the better choice but then that makes the maggot more relevant than it rightfully should be. Master of Feast seems dangerous against control.
OH! I see what you did there. Master of Feast + Spirit of the Labyrinth. hmm.
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Went 1-3 at FNM tonight. I played a solid collection of decks
Match 1 - buG Midrange - Lost 1-2
This was essentially a mono green splashing mostly blue for BUG Walkers, and black for Golgari Charm. I won G1 pretty handily. Game 2 I got worn down, and G3 I really "settled" on my 6 card keep and was punished for it.
Match 2 - White Weenie - Won 2-1
Game 1 I was able to parlay 3 Underworld Coinsmith's and a couple Ethereal Armors into a win. Game 2 I got flooded in a loss. Game 3 I dropped Master of the Feast T3, T4 only to have them both be snagged by Banisher Priest...but luckily I was able to keep up the heat with Brimaz and eventually Blood Baron to get the win.
Match 3 - Jund Monsters - Lost 2-0
Game 1 I brought the heat early and got my opponent down to 2, with the ability to use Coinsmith for the final damage, however he had a Scaveging Ooze that would have kept him alive. That was as close as I got. Game 2, I had a great starting hand. Scarhide, Ethereal Armor, Opressive Rays, 3 mana of which one was Mutavault, and I a Spirit of the Labyrinth I believe. I drew into a second oppressive rays and thought I was off...unfortunately Abrupt Decay took out my Scarhide before his second attack, and he dropped two Sylvan Caryatid as his first two creatures so the Oppressive Rays turned out to be useless. This all really stalled me out.
Match 4 - UW Control - Lost 2-0
Game 1 got him down to 6 before he stabilized, but I was on the draw which makes it a bit more of a tougher matchup for me. Game 2, I got out hot and thought I was going to carry it through however he delayed me just long enough to get a T6 Elspeth on the board. I didn't at that time have the power to punch through the tokens without losing my creatures so I had to delay and wait for something that let me do more damage. I got a Herald of Torment bestowed giving myself a 21-1 lead, but after that he was able to Sphinx's Revelation on his turn and eventually ultimate Elspeth for the win.
All in all, I had a great time at FNM as I always do, but unfortunately it didn't quite work out how I would like. I'm going to be looking into making some more dramatic changes to the deck. Basilica Screecher just doesn't offer enough on his own, so he will be coming out. Master of the Feast is unfortunately giving me concerns with opponent card draw again...so I'm going to be looking at getting Herald of Torment in as a 3 or 4 of while minimizing the Master. At the same time I'd like to increase my overall flyer base...so we'll see how this all shakes out. I'm going to sleep on it and think about it later.
So I decided to try and go bigger and smaller at the same time. I did this primarily by minimizing my 2 drops...ie removing Spirit of the Labyrinth. I'm hoping this will allow me to ideally go T1 one drop almost always as I have 10 creatures. T2 (worst case) scry land 1 drop or ethereal armor. T3 some level of heat. I also added Underworld Connections back in. While I've added it before and removed it I've never really pulled it in play before deciding it took to much away from the aggro threat. However since I've found myself emptying my had far to often without winning I've decided to try it again. Well after having played with it for the first last night I'm pretty sure it is in there to stay.
So through my testing I haven't found straight aggro a reliable method for these cards. Seeing that this deck is essentially a devotion enchantment (devotion being the number of enchantments) it runs into the problem of being able to have its knees cut off with one well placed creature or enchantment removal spell. Since my creatures are not hexproof I've had to cut all of the straight creature aura's to avoid so many two for ones, save Ethreal Armor which is staying due to the raw power it represents in this deck. So at this point the deck has started to evolve into more of a lower casting cost midrange deck. That being said this deck still has the ability to churn out a T3 nut draw win, but as that is not a very common my deck is evolving to avoid running out of cards and being to weak in the mid game. I still want to be the beat down in most of the matches I play, so I'm still hoping to keep the pressure up...just be more suited to better handle games that go 6-10 rounds.
One card I'd like to consider adding is Ajani, Caller of the Pride as a one of. Primarily the plan for it would be to surprise drop it for the flying double strike when I appear otherwise blocked. I'm also thinking that I might mainboard Thoughtseize in place of Oppressive Rays. Oppressive Rays can be a great addition to the aggro aspect of the deck, however it is a dead card against control, does nothing against hexproof...and since a lot of midrange decks are running Sylvan Caryatid I feel Thoughtseize could be relevant in more G1 matchups, and I could always bring in Oppressive Rays in for matchups that it offers more value, though I may also just consider replacing it for something more powerful. Also, out of the sideboard I feel like I will be removing Brain Maggot to make room for probably another Duress and maybe another Deicide or a 3rd Underworld Connections. I also want to consider possibly replacing the last two Master of the Feast with Doomwake Giant because it is can be so powerful in a deck like mine, but I'm worried about this for two reasons, one it will drive up my curve which likely means I need more mana, and two I would be getting rid of 2 of the 6 flyers I have, and flyers are something I want.
Have you considered Aegis of the Gods as a sideboard option? It works well against discard and burn. Especially Lifebane Zombie.
I've considered Aegis of the Gods for burn. I do not feel it is necessary as I've done well against burn post sideboard. Certainly Lifebane Zombie presents risks to my Blood Baron, and any number of White creatures I have, but in that matchup you're probably not going to be beat Thoughtseize, and all the removal that will target Aegis. I'm not saying it isn't worth it but not sold on the tempo gain I might get from it.
Now I have considered putting Lifebane Zombie in MY sideboard and had previously been unable to find room, but with some of the changes I'm going through it may be time to reconsider it.
I think this is what I would like to try, with the only caveat being I might be interested in main decking 2 Lifebane Zombie in place of Master of the Feast, and leave 1 Lifebane Zombie in the side. For the 2 extra sideboard slots I could consider 2 more removal spells, probably Ultimate Price maybe more Hero's Downfall.
So I really like this. It is incredibly explosive and typically ends the games that I win by turn 4-6. The problem I run into is lack of reach. I often wish I had some kind of burn to finish out the game. Flying helps but it often not enough. Its so bad that I have considered adding a 1 or 2 of Rogue's Passage to the deck. One particular example was against a U/G ramp deck running Arbor Colossus main deck. The reach slowed me down to the point that he literally stabalized with 4 life. I was up to over 60. I lost that match which is disgusting. The fact is that I was relying on Heliod to shut out those games. He just couldn't keep up with the rate at which the opponent was able to drop mega fatties and the 3/2 (I had Spear out) tokens just didn't matter. I nearly won by decking out but he Ult'd Kiora to seal the win.
-3 Heliod
Eidolon of Countless Battles usually only keeps things par. He really just functions as Ethereal Armor 5-9 and I guess he does okay at that. Plus he increases our overall threat density. I thought he would be cute with Murder Investigation but the problem I've been running into is that I very rarely have my creatures just killed, they are almost always exiled due to some enchantment specific hate. My creatures get removed but not more often than any other type of deck so the enchantment theme does not appear to be a liability.
-2 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-2 Murder Investigation
Another problem I've found is that I don't have enough removal. I've considered Oppressive Rays but I really feel like I need something more like Ultimate Price or maybe even Pacificism. I need removal the most agaisnt late game fatties where Orzhov Charm would cost a lot of life and where the opponent can afford to pay for Oppressive Rays.
+2 Ultimate Price
The deck have a shocking amount of lifegain. I would be willing to even add a 4th Gifts of Orzhova. I started with 2 but eventually added a 3rd. It wins games. Adding a 4th could help out another card I'm considering adding for reach and that is Blood Baron. At 5 cmc though I would need to add at least 2 more mana to make that work and that cramps deck space. On the other hand Coinsmith costs less to play but more in the long run. If I'm low on life neither are a good draw though Blood Baron is only slightly worse. I'm not considering Athreos at this point because I find that more often than not my guys are exiled and not killed which bypasses his trigger. He is also susceptible to exiling himself so indestructible doesn't help.
+3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
+2 Land
A few other notes:
-I've actually found Baleful Eidolon to be really helpful when he sticks around. A lot of decks are scared of Deathtouch because it helps you trade way up. If he gets big enough he becomes a must block but Deathtouch is kind of irrelavent at that point. Coupled with Spear of Heliod this can discourage opponent's from swinging until they manage to draw an answer of either.
-Divine Favor is actually kind of hilarious against burn. The card obviously does not beat the deck on its own. The padding to your life total is certainly helpful though. The toughness addition puts most of your creatures out of reach to anything but dedicated (Mizzium Mortars, Fated Conflageration) removal. It also works well with Eidolon of Countless Battles and Ethereal Armor. Coupled with Hopeful Eidolon's lifegain and Gift of Orzhova it actually gives me just that extra edge I need.
-While I have never actually activated the removal clause on Spear just the threat of hit has made a difference. There have been plenty of matches where my opponent simply has sat back and not swung in despite having the clear advantage to do so simply because I had a Spear up. They will wait until they can over come it by shear numbers for a guaranteed alpha or until they find an answer for it. The threat alone buys time. The problem I'm running into is that I cannot capitalize on that.
@ TGCRequiem
-How do you like the Underworld Coinsmith? Do you find that you often use its ability to close out games?
-Thoughts on using Herald of Torment as a 4 of in place of Blood Baron and Eidolon of Countless Battles to keep my curve lower?
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First my deck for
@ TGCRequiem
-How do you like the Underworld Coinsmith? Do you find that you often use its ability to close out games?
-Thoughts on using Herald of Torment as a 4 of in place of Blood Baron and Eidolon of Countless Battles to keep my curve lower?
I like the Coinsmith. I've considered putting a 4th in. I don't use him to close out games as much as I had originally anticipated, but he definitely has finished some games out for that last 1-3 points of damage. Also his incidental life gain is very useful, especially against Burn and Wide aggro strategies...and it only takes one Ethereal Armor to make him a formidable threat. He also adds two devotion towards Athreos, God of Passage. I'm very rarely disappointed by Athreos when he does come out, as even when he's not a creature he pumps Ethereal Armor, and playing Eidolon of Countless Battles typically pulls him into the fray as a creature so it would get the bonus as well.
Herald of Torment as a 4 of I feel is for the better. In my case it was better than Master of the Feast because I was avoiding feeding my opponents coffers. I definitely like Blood Baron of Vizkopa, but with a more aggro-ish build I'd be hesitant to run more than two of him. Herald, like many of these bestow creatures is great because he offers value at his cost and his bestow cost. The fact he has flying adds more value than something like Baleful Eidolon in my opinion because while deathtouch is a great deterrent, it's still more easily blocked. The other thing about Herald of Torment is the natural flying allows you to avoid paying 3 mana for an aura that gives flying. Don't get me wrong, Gift of Orzhova can be a game winner, but at 3 mana it's fairly costly, and with all the spot removal in the format aura's are a great way to give your opponent 2 for 1 advantage. That is why I have skimmed all of my aura's out except Ethereal Armor. Ethereal Armor at a 1 drop is cheap, allows you to sneak in an extra 1-3 damage in the first 2 turns of the game, and the first strike typically means your opponent has to spend removal on it. If they have they've spent it on your weakest creature (theoretically) which means they should have less available when you bring out your big guns.
As a side I feel like Baleful Eidolon would be more effective if it's bestow cost wasn't so high. It's value for early game is fine, but mid to late game is waning. Most of the bestow creatures I used tended to scale efficiently for their bestow cost. I also would not want to run more than 2 Spear of Heliod. It's obviously much better if you can get it out early, but I would never want to see more than 1 of them in a game. You have a lower curve on your creatures so I can understand why you feel the need to run 3 to maximize your early chances of drawing it. I tried to use Spear in my build as more of a concessional bonus. It definitely helps make my deck very difficult to play against, but is not necessary...it's almost more of a "win more" type card.
As for burn, again I would hesitate to use Divine Favor. I was very tempted to run in myself originally, but you run the same risk with it as with Gift of Orzhova. You cast, in response they kill your creature. Instead I use Nyx-Fleece Ram which only gives me 1 life per turn vs the immediate 3, but it doesn't run the risk of fizzling against a burn player, and with smart blocking will typically require two burn spells to remove...also it pairs super well with coinsmith in that matchup.
Ultimate Price is a great card, I've been considering placing two in the sideboard, and have considered it mainboard at times as well. I just haven't been able to quite find the room for it.
Sorry I went off a bit in response to your questions, but that's what this thread is about I suppose, discussing benefits/negatives to different cards in the deck type. Maybe my insight may help you as certainly some of yours has helped me.
Beat a BG Constellation Deck 2-1, beat a BG Midrange Deck 2-0, beat a Mono Black Devotion Deck 2-0 tonight and beat some random RUB deck 1-0 but they bailed after only one game. Feeling pretty close. Was thinking I was going to take the Hero's Downfall out, but I'm starting to think otherwise now. They're very useful in that Mono Black matchup.
I know, I watched the last match =P. I happened to see your name pop up in the que so I thought I'd observe for a bit. I added in Underworld Coinsmith btw. I do like him. He is better with more mana for sure. I'll write up more on my experience with him later. Coinsmith does help because he helps push the opponent closer to that red zone where it becomes a matter of swing the game big or lose. Most of my opponent's simply concede once they get below 5 life when I have Coinsmith on the field. Also, it seems like most of my games are against rogue brews, some quite good once they get going. I try and prey on the shaky start. Admittedly I can't do that as well as RDW but its fun to assemble Voltron.
So of the matches I played, the games I was winning I never truly got to complete because the opponent conceeded. I guess that is telling enough though. I played a handful of matches agianst a few decks. The one of note that I found very frustrating was against a G/B deck. Both games he dropped a Desecration Demon turn 4 and on Turn 5 I used Oppresive Rays on it. I was on the play both times. Again on turn 5 and six he dropped another Demon each turn. I just couldn't deal with that and the fact that he managed to do nothing but drop three Demons each game, what luck? Who knows what else was in his deck because I only ever saw 3 Demons each game.
The other thing I find I have a lot of trouble with is G/x Ramp. They simply outclass my threats by turn 5 and stabalize with anywhere from 4-10 life and then its all over. I'm really torn here because I'm not sure what I need to do. More Ultimate Price would be awesome, maybe 2 in the board because Orzhov Charm is a liability here. The other consideration always comes back to Blood Baron. During these matches I always end up with a ton of life when they finally ramp to their threats and Blood Baron could sweep up the game but at the same time his protections are irrelavent in these matches so he could just eat removal or a counter and then I'm back where I started. These matches are actually what got me looking at him in the first place. I'm not sure if Herald of Torment, which was my other idea, could fill this role as well but I think that the Herald would be better against other decks.
The only reason I don't just auto-swap Herald for Countless Battles is their bestow cost. I can't really support the five mana bestow, not unless I increase my land count. If I do that then I risk flooding more often as my actual creatures top off at 3 mana.
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Cool! Wonder which match you saw? Any misplays you wanted to nitpick...lol.
I run 22 land and I bestow Herald as often as I hard cast him. You may have a little more trouble because of all the basics but I don't think net mana should be a problem. Bad luck against the Demons but it's part of the game. You cant get shaken up to hard by that. I think against Jund or G/x Stompy you just have to aggressively mulligan go for the throat early and hope you can take a herald over the top to finish them off before they out class you. I actually started taking out oppressive rays in that matchup beforei dropped it altogether. It's great against mystic but terrible against caryatid and stormbreath. I'll gladly trade a 1 drop for mystic all day.... but youhave to get ethereal armor or flying to really havea good chance. Ultimate price is also good in that matchup.
I only saw the last match against the RUG deck. You beat him quite sumarily so no criticism lol. It is part of what what convinced me to try running Herald of Torment. I run 3 Ultimate Price, 4 Orzhov Charm main deck now with 1 more Ultimate Price in the board. I've been really happy with it so far. With that package I can usually answer pretty much any threat I need. I have almost never gotten to use the recurssion mode of Orzhov Charm though. I almost always have to use it as a kill spell.
Underworld Coinsmith is a freaking house man. He has a huge target on his head everytime he is on board. I can't believe it. He is so unassuming!
I think I'm going to skip the Blood Barons for now. I worry that it is just a win more. The thing is my deck feels so much like Soul Sisters between Hopeful Eidolon + Ethereal Armor and Underworld Coinsmith that Blood Baron feels like an auto-include. Getting over 30 life really isn't that hard but getting the opponent under 10 fast enough for his ability to be relavent is not consistent. I mean, he is a one hit kill once you do and I find that is my biggest challenge, capitalizing on my huge lead. I've decided to go with Herald of Torment because I hope that he will be more consistent and even help me swing games I otherwise might have lost. The other thing to is that Eidolon of Countless Battles often did what I wanted Blood Baron to do which is immediately close out a game because he can occasional swing for huge amounts one Bestowed. Unlike Baron though he is extremely weak on his own. He is a 3 cmc 1/1 so much of time. At least Blood Baron is a 4/4 Lifelink at the worst and extremely hard to deal with at the best. I could see him being a sideboard card against G/B Constellation decks because the only way they could deal with him is through combat.
G/B Constellation is a very difficult matchup for me becuase they often stabalize on turn 4-6 and the out card advantage me. I played a version last night where I destroyed the guy game 1 and then game 2 he boarded in a ton of removal. I saw 2 Golgari Charms, 2 Abrubt Decays, 2 Hero's Downfall, and a Doomwake Giant. Game 3 it was pretty much the same thing but I mis-played at the end. I had brought in 3 Duress and at the end of the game it was between taking Bile Blight or that 6cmc Green enchantment that gives you a 3/3 token when you play a creature, 3 +1/+1 counters when you play a non-creature, and 3 life for a land. I took the removal thinking I could fight through the card advantage since his hand was nearly empty. He pulled an Eidolon of Blossoms on his top deck and I just couldn't keep up.
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Tonight I took on a UW Planar Cleansing Control Deck, and a 5 Color Chromatic Lantern control deck. Won both 2-0. I definitely understand there were some draws where my opponents did not get stuff they would have liked, but I also got a lot of use out of my card removal in both matchups. I also lost to a Red Devotion Deck 1-2, both games post sideboard which is less exciting.
So truth be told I'm taking this deck to the Grand Prix Chicago this coming weekend, so I'm running out of time to tweak it. This is what I'm thinking about running though I have a handful of cards with me that I will probably be waffling on up until Friday night. I'll probably start focusing on re-building my sideboarding matchups over the next day or so which may lead to me changing the sideboard up a bit...granted I've spent so much time honing to date that unless I just find a card I'm typically unlikely to ever side in I'm probably pretty close to set at this point.
Cards on the cutting room floor...some are still fighting for life:
Spear of Heliod - I cut this for a 3rd maindeck Lifebane Zombie. This allows me to get 6 shots at looking at my opponents hand pre-sideboard. The Spear itself is good and possibly has won me a game or two, but it also has come when I've needed another creature. It doesn't come out often and I think I'd rather just get a 27th creature in there.
Hero's Downfall - I can't think of a sideboard situation I would want to run more than 4 of these other than against Desecration Demon so I'm down to 3 in my 75. As it is I'm seriously considering replacing this with Dark Betrayal...except Downfall is so versatile.
Underworld Coinsmith - I'm seriously considering dropping a Brimaz to get a 4th in the deck. He certainly isn't a game winner by himself, but I find him to be a pretty consistent performer. Brimaz is also great, but I'm not always a huge fan of getting a second in my hand.
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My strategy against control is to "go under not over". I try and bum rush them as quickly as possible and use Duress to grab removal. I don't really care about their threats because I want to beat them before they become relevant. I push really hard for that turn 4 or 5 win. If I can't get it I fall back on Heliod and just try and activate Devotion. If I can't do that I spend my mana generating chumps until I can draw enough gas to get back in the game. Sometimes that gas comes in the form of Orzhov Charm recurring one of my 12 one drops. Spear of Heliod should also not be underestimated. With Ethereal Armor, Spear of Heliod is +2/+2 to the enchanted creature. It also makes recurring one drops far more relevant in the late game. A 2/2 late game is still not super awesome but its a start and it forces control decks to not swing with things like AEtherling because they will lose it after one swing, well minus the whole Hexproof ability but it forces them to play around the removal.
The thing I like about Bestow, especially cheap Bestow, is that it is a spot removal nightmare and helps to devalue sweepers by forcing them to use it to get rid of one creature only for you to end up with 1 or 2 to replace it, technically for free. My nut draw would be T1: Hopeful, T2: Ethereal + Other 1 drop, T:3 Bestow Nyxborn, T:4 Bestow Countless Battles. This is a spot removal nightmare and there isn't an Enchantment sweeper that costs less than 6 mana which gives you a lot of time.
EDIT: Oh one thing you might consider dropping Oppressive Rays against control if you don't already. Likely they are light enough on threats that it won't be needed between all of the other removal options you already have.
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You can bestow Gnarled Scarhide on your opponents creatures making them be unable to block. Not a common occurrence but it could be a way to get lethal through on occasion.
*edit* Better yet, if you kill your opponents creature it was bestowed upon you get the creature back.
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Gnarled Scarhide back in for a couple reasons, one of the biggest being Stormbreath Dragon. Playing Jund Monsters today, in a game I did end up winning I was set back 4 turns by Stormbreath. The extra power also means that when suited up with Ethereal armor he can potentially be a 5 power first strike on T2, typically by T3...and on his own w/Ethereal armor he's a 4 power first strike. Brimaz, King of Oreskos has replaced Grim Guardian in the mainboard for several reasons as well. Toughness is equal, ignoring the token. Brimaz has Vigilance, and more power which works in my aggro game plan. Grim Guardian did his role well when I played decks w/o spot removal, but versus the decks who could take out my early threats putting a 1/4 on the board wasn't very intimidating. Master of the Feast is back in for now with a 3/1 split in favor of Herald of Torment though I very may well go to a 2/2 or even 3/1 the other way. The fact of the matter is Master requires an answer, and when he's on the board it means other threats aren't getting answered. Finally Armament of Nyx was removed in place of Spear of Heliod. Armament can be beastly, especially on the back of a Master of the Feast, but with the addition of Brimaz, I feel his role diminishes and the Spear's role increases and it powers up Brimaz tokens and a bunch of already small creatures. I am strongly considering pulling a Spiteful Returned to get one more Spear in the mainboard.
Sideboard Changes:
Brain Maggot has been reduced to 1 copy to make room for two Hero's Downfall. One Underworld Connections has been removed to make room for a 3rd Thoughtseize. This gives me 8 card disruption cards, one of which is a creature, which I hope is enough, but further playtesting will be needed. I still will have two potential card draw options with Connections and Erebos, and most importantly it gives me a couple chances to remove more difficult to remove threats via Hero's Downfall.
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 28
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
4x Spirit of the Labyrinth
3x Underworld Coinsmith
2x Spiteful Returned
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Herald of Torment
3x Master of the Feast
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Orzhov Charm
3x Oppressive Rays
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Brain Maggot
2x Nyx-Fleece Ram
2x Hero's Downfall
1x Underworld Connections
4x Duress
3x Thoughtseize
So I've played several matchups since the last update. Against UW Control I've gone 2-1 games wise. This is done mostly at lunch so we don't always have time...especially in that matchup to do more than 1 game. I won one game on the play T4, then presumably lost he second game post sideboard...though we both agreed to stop due to time. He seemed to have me locked down. Today we played another game 1 with me on the draw and I won that as well. Then tonight I played a match versus Esper and went 2-1, with both wins coming post sideboard.
Versus "Wide Aggro":
So I would consider something like white weenie that tries to get more creatures on the board than you can block but that is still able to leave enough back to chump you "wide aggro". I've played several red decks online like this as of late and have lost several close 1-2 matches in this matchup. At the same time I just won 2-1 against a Red Deck, but they were as much devotion as anything. All in all I find this to be a tough matchup as my success is often predicated on getting something, or a couple somethings so big so fast that they have to stay back to block leading to an attrition war in my favor. Unfortunately in a lot of cases this matchup gets wider faster than I can handle and the first strike of Ash Zealot in particular is a bad matchup against my early troops. Due to this I've added Drown in Sorrow and an extra Nyx-Fleece Ram to the sideboard.
Versus Jund Monsters":
Not a whole lot new to add here except that Stormbreath Dragon is a huge pain in my behind unless I can get a big black flyer out there. Often I can get this match out of reach before Stormbreath becomes an issue though.
Changes:
Spiteful Returned was okay, but really just not pulling his weight. It always felt awkwardly placed, so I pulled both. I wanted to increase my odds of hitting the 1 drop and so I added a Nyxborn Shieldmate which more often than not I hope to cast a bestow, but as a worst case it's another Enchantment Creature. The other Spiteful was replaced with a Basilica Screecher. Now I know the Screecher sounds like a weird fit, but I really was hoping to get another flyer and at an earlier drop. The 1/2 body means with either Ethereal Armor or Spear of Heliod it can stay alive through Drown in Sorrow, and it has Extort which is a cheaper drain that Underworld Coinsmith gives and a good outlet for extra mana. So far in the games it has come out, I have preferred it to Spiteful Returned.
Orzhov Charm while functionally relevant, I wanted to try Hero's Downfall in the main to give me more flexibility against what my opponents are bringing to the table...it also answers Stormbreath Dragon which Orzhov Charm can't. We'll see, while Downfall can handle walkers, the cost effectiveness of Ultimate Price is giving it some consideration.
Brimaz, King of Oreskos is the bomb! So glad I made this move.
Current Decklist
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 28
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
1x Nyxborn Shieldmate
4x Spirit of the Labyrinth
3x Underworld Coinsmith
1x Basilica Screecher
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Herald of Torment
3x Master of the Feast
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Hero's Downfall
3x Oppressive Rays
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Brain Maggot
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
2x Drown in Sorrow
3x Duress
3x Thoughtseize
I see you still have the 1 of Herald of Torment and Blood Baron but you almost never talk about them? I would have dropped them by now but I'm assuming there is a reason you still have them?
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As for Blood Baron, he is a meta game call. He is very good against control and mono blackx strategies and so my hope is he will give me longevity in games that otherwise go longer than I'd already like. I often find him thoughtseized out in those matchups but he also tends to not make it to the board before the game ends. I've considered putting both in the side for something more often relevant, even for a 2nd Screecher but he's there for a Game 1 insurance policy.
[b]FNM Friday the 13th Decklist:[/b]
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 28
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
1x Nyxborn Shieldmate
4x Spirit of the Labyrinth
3x Underworld Coinsmith
1x Basilica Screecher
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Herald of Torment
3x Master of the Feast
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Hero's Downfall
3x Oppressive Rays
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Brain Maggot
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
1x Deicide
1x Drown in Sorrow
3x Duress
3x Thoughtseize
List tags are malformed.
Vs Control
In
Out
Vs Burn
In
Out
Vs Wide Aggro
In
Out
Vs Naya Hexproof
In
Out
I'll finish up the remainder later...
Vs Mono Blue
Vs Mono Bx
Vs Jund Monsters
Vs Naya Mid/BigRange
Vs Dredge
For Burn I could see having more Shieldmates main deck could be good. With an Ethereal Armor he is immediately out of burn range. At the same time they can always go over the top so that may not be the best plan. I think Duress, Brain Maggot, and Nyx-Fleece is a good plan.
Against control I don't know if I agree with removing the Spear. I've not played your version of the deck so take this with a grain of salt but i think the worst thing you can do against control is try to beat them at their own game and that's the long game plan. I would want to "go under" control. The Spear makes more of your guys threats which stretches their removal thin. I think Duress and Maggot are good options here. Maggot forces them to use removal to get their removal back which is a decent tempo play at the very least. Again, you test them to make sure they can keep up with you. Adding thing like Gnarled Scarhide w/ an Ethereal armor forces them to choose which to kill, the maggot to get their card back or the actual threat? Honestly the threat is the better choice but then that makes the maggot more relevant than it rightfully should be. Master of Feast seems dangerous against control.
OH! I see what you did there. Master of Feast + Spirit of the Labyrinth. hmm.
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4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 28
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
1x Nyxborn Shieldmate
4x Spirit of the Labyrinth
3x Underworld Coinsmith
1x Basilica Screecher
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1x Herald of Torment
3x Master of the Feast
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Hero's Downfall
3x Oppressive Rays
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Brain Maggot
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
1x Deicide
1x Drown in Sorrow
3x Duress
3x Thoughtseize
Went 1-3 at FNM tonight. I played a solid collection of decks
Match 1 - buG Midrange - Lost 1-2
This was essentially a mono green splashing mostly blue for BUG Walkers, and black for Golgari Charm. I won G1 pretty handily. Game 2 I got worn down, and G3 I really "settled" on my 6 card keep and was punished for it.
Match 2 - White Weenie - Won 2-1
Game 1 I was able to parlay 3 Underworld Coinsmith's and a couple Ethereal Armors into a win. Game 2 I got flooded in a loss. Game 3 I dropped Master of the Feast T3, T4 only to have them both be snagged by Banisher Priest...but luckily I was able to keep up the heat with Brimaz and eventually Blood Baron to get the win.
Match 3 - Jund Monsters - Lost 2-0
Game 1 I brought the heat early and got my opponent down to 2, with the ability to use Coinsmith for the final damage, however he had a Scaveging Ooze that would have kept him alive. That was as close as I got. Game 2, I had a great starting hand. Scarhide, Ethereal Armor, Opressive Rays, 3 mana of which one was Mutavault, and I a Spirit of the Labyrinth I believe. I drew into a second oppressive rays and thought I was off...unfortunately Abrupt Decay took out my Scarhide before his second attack, and he dropped two Sylvan Caryatid as his first two creatures so the Oppressive Rays turned out to be useless. This all really stalled me out.
Match 4 - UW Control - Lost 2-0
Game 1 got him down to 6 before he stabilized, but I was on the draw which makes it a bit more of a tougher matchup for me. Game 2, I got out hot and thought I was going to carry it through however he delayed me just long enough to get a T6 Elspeth on the board. I didn't at that time have the power to punch through the tokens without losing my creatures so I had to delay and wait for something that let me do more damage. I got a Herald of Torment bestowed giving myself a 21-1 lead, but after that he was able to Sphinx's Revelation on his turn and eventually ultimate Elspeth for the win.
All in all, I had a great time at FNM as I always do, but unfortunately it didn't quite work out how I would like. I'm going to be looking into making some more dramatic changes to the deck. Basilica Screecher just doesn't offer enough on his own, so he will be coming out. Master of the Feast is unfortunately giving me concerns with opponent card draw again...so I'm going to be looking at getting Herald of Torment in as a 3 or 4 of while minimizing the Master. At the same time I'd like to increase my overall flyer base...so we'll see how this all shakes out. I'm going to sleep on it and think about it later.
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 27
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
3x Nyxborn Shieldmate
3x Underworld Coinsmith
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Herald of Torment
2x Master of the Feast
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Underworld Connections
2x Oppressive Rays
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Brain Maggot
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
1x Deicide
1x Drown in Sorrow
3x Duress
3x Thoughtseize
One card I'd like to consider adding is Ajani, Caller of the Pride as a one of. Primarily the plan for it would be to surprise drop it for the flying double strike when I appear otherwise blocked. I'm also thinking that I might mainboard Thoughtseize in place of Oppressive Rays. Oppressive Rays can be a great addition to the aggro aspect of the deck, however it is a dead card against control, does nothing against hexproof...and since a lot of midrange decks are running Sylvan Caryatid I feel Thoughtseize could be relevant in more G1 matchups, and I could always bring in Oppressive Rays in for matchups that it offers more value, though I may also just consider replacing it for something more powerful. Also, out of the sideboard I feel like I will be removing Brain Maggot to make room for probably another Duress and maybe another Deicide or a 3rd Underworld Connections. I also want to consider possibly replacing the last two Master of the Feast with Doomwake Giant because it is can be so powerful in a deck like mine, but I'm worried about this for two reasons, one it will drive up my curve which likely means I need more mana, and two I would be getting rid of 2 of the 6 flyers I have, and flyers are something I want.
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I've considered Aegis of the Gods for burn. I do not feel it is necessary as I've done well against burn post sideboard. Certainly Lifebane Zombie presents risks to my Blood Baron, and any number of White creatures I have, but in that matchup you're probably not going to be beat Thoughtseize, and all the removal that will target Aegis. I'm not saying it isn't worth it but not sold on the tempo gain I might get from it.
Now I have considered putting Lifebane Zombie in MY sideboard and had previously been unable to find room, but with some of the changes I'm going through it may be time to reconsider it.
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 26
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
2x Nyxborn Shieldmate
3x Underworld Coinsmith
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Herald of Torment
2x Master of the Feast
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Underworld Connections
3x Thoughtseize
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Underworld Connections
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
1x Deicide
1x Drown in Sorrow
4x Duress
3x Lifebane Zombie
(I don't have it with me so I can't remember the exact sideboard)
13 Plains
8 Swamp
CREATURES (23)
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Nyxborn Shieldmate
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Baleful Eidolon
4 Eidolon of Countless Battles
3 Heliod God of the sun
4 Orzhov Charm
4 Ethereal Armor
2 Murder Investigation
3 Gift of Orzhova
3 Spear of Heliod
4 Duress (Control)
4 Divine Favor (Burn)
3 Oppressive Rays (Aggro)
4 ???
So I really like this. It is incredibly explosive and typically ends the games that I win by turn 4-6. The problem I run into is lack of reach. I often wish I had some kind of burn to finish out the game. Flying helps but it often not enough. Its so bad that I have considered adding a 1 or 2 of Rogue's Passage to the deck. One particular example was against a U/G ramp deck running Arbor Colossus main deck. The reach slowed me down to the point that he literally stabalized with 4 life. I was up to over 60. I lost that match which is disgusting. The fact is that I was relying on Heliod to shut out those games. He just couldn't keep up with the rate at which the opponent was able to drop mega fatties and the 3/2 (I had Spear out) tokens just didn't matter. I nearly won by decking out but he Ult'd Kiora to seal the win.
-3 Heliod
Eidolon of Countless Battles usually only keeps things par. He really just functions as Ethereal Armor 5-9 and I guess he does okay at that. Plus he increases our overall threat density. I thought he would be cute with Murder Investigation but the problem I've been running into is that I very rarely have my creatures just killed, they are almost always exiled due to some enchantment specific hate. My creatures get removed but not more often than any other type of deck so the enchantment theme does not appear to be a liability.
-2 Eidolon of Countless Battles
-2 Murder Investigation
Another problem I've found is that I don't have enough removal. I've considered Oppressive Rays but I really feel like I need something more like Ultimate Price or maybe even Pacificism. I need removal the most agaisnt late game fatties where Orzhov Charm would cost a lot of life and where the opponent can afford to pay for Oppressive Rays.
+2 Ultimate Price
The deck have a shocking amount of lifegain. I would be willing to even add a 4th Gifts of Orzhova. I started with 2 but eventually added a 3rd. It wins games. Adding a 4th could help out another card I'm considering adding for reach and that is Blood Baron. At 5 cmc though I would need to add at least 2 more mana to make that work and that cramps deck space. On the other hand Coinsmith costs less to play but more in the long run. If I'm low on life neither are a good draw though Blood Baron is only slightly worse. I'm not considering Athreos at this point because I find that more often than not my guys are exiled and not killed which bypasses his trigger. He is also susceptible to exiling himself so indestructible doesn't help.
+3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa.
+2 Land
A few other notes:
-I've actually found Baleful Eidolon to be really helpful when he sticks around. A lot of decks are scared of Deathtouch because it helps you trade way up. If he gets big enough he becomes a must block but Deathtouch is kind of irrelavent at that point. Coupled with Spear of Heliod this can discourage opponent's from swinging until they manage to draw an answer of either.
-Divine Favor is actually kind of hilarious against burn. The card obviously does not beat the deck on its own. The padding to your life total is certainly helpful though. The toughness addition puts most of your creatures out of reach to anything but dedicated (Mizzium Mortars, Fated Conflageration) removal. It also works well with Eidolon of Countless Battles and Ethereal Armor. Coupled with Hopeful Eidolon's lifegain and Gift of Orzhova it actually gives me just that extra edge I need.
-While I have never actually activated the removal clause on Spear just the threat of hit has made a difference. There have been plenty of matches where my opponent simply has sat back and not swung in despite having the clear advantage to do so simply because I had a Spear up. They will wait until they can over come it by shear numbers for a guaranteed alpha or until they find an answer for it. The threat alone buys time. The problem I'm running into is that I cannot capitalize on that.
This is my new proposed deck list:
14 Plains
9 Swamp
CREATURES (23)
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Nyxborn Shieldmate
4 Gnarled Scarhide
4 Baleful Eidolon
2 Eidolon of Countless Battles
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Ultimate Price
4 Orzhov Charm
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Gift of Orzhova
3 Spear of Heliod
4 Duress (Control)
4 Divine Favor (Burn)
3 Oppressive Rays (Aggro)
4 ???
@ TGCRequiem
-How do you like the Underworld Coinsmith? Do you find that you often use its ability to close out games?
-Thoughts on using Herald of Torment as a 4 of in place of Blood Baron and Eidolon of Countless Battles to keep my curve lower?
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I like the Coinsmith. I've considered putting a 4th in. I don't use him to close out games as much as I had originally anticipated, but he definitely has finished some games out for that last 1-3 points of damage. Also his incidental life gain is very useful, especially against Burn and Wide aggro strategies...and it only takes one Ethereal Armor to make him a formidable threat. He also adds two devotion towards Athreos, God of Passage. I'm very rarely disappointed by Athreos when he does come out, as even when he's not a creature he pumps Ethereal Armor, and playing Eidolon of Countless Battles typically pulls him into the fray as a creature so it would get the bonus as well.
Herald of Torment as a 4 of I feel is for the better. In my case it was better than Master of the Feast because I was avoiding feeding my opponents coffers. I definitely like Blood Baron of Vizkopa, but with a more aggro-ish build I'd be hesitant to run more than two of him. Herald, like many of these bestow creatures is great because he offers value at his cost and his bestow cost. The fact he has flying adds more value than something like Baleful Eidolon in my opinion because while deathtouch is a great deterrent, it's still more easily blocked. The other thing about Herald of Torment is the natural flying allows you to avoid paying 3 mana for an aura that gives flying. Don't get me wrong, Gift of Orzhova can be a game winner, but at 3 mana it's fairly costly, and with all the spot removal in the format aura's are a great way to give your opponent 2 for 1 advantage. That is why I have skimmed all of my aura's out except Ethereal Armor. Ethereal Armor at a 1 drop is cheap, allows you to sneak in an extra 1-3 damage in the first 2 turns of the game, and the first strike typically means your opponent has to spend removal on it. If they have they've spent it on your weakest creature (theoretically) which means they should have less available when you bring out your big guns.
As a side I feel like Baleful Eidolon would be more effective if it's bestow cost wasn't so high. It's value for early game is fine, but mid to late game is waning. Most of the bestow creatures I used tended to scale efficiently for their bestow cost. I also would not want to run more than 2 Spear of Heliod. It's obviously much better if you can get it out early, but I would never want to see more than 1 of them in a game. You have a lower curve on your creatures so I can understand why you feel the need to run 3 to maximize your early chances of drawing it. I tried to use Spear in my build as more of a concessional bonus. It definitely helps make my deck very difficult to play against, but is not necessary...it's almost more of a "win more" type card.
As for burn, again I would hesitate to use Divine Favor. I was very tempted to run in myself originally, but you run the same risk with it as with Gift of Orzhova. You cast, in response they kill your creature. Instead I use Nyx-Fleece Ram which only gives me 1 life per turn vs the immediate 3, but it doesn't run the risk of fizzling against a burn player, and with smart blocking will typically require two burn spells to remove...also it pairs super well with coinsmith in that matchup.
Ultimate Price is a great card, I've been considering placing two in the sideboard, and have considered it mainboard at times as well. I just haven't been able to quite find the room for it.
Sorry I went off a bit in response to your questions, but that's what this thread is about I suppose, discussing benefits/negatives to different cards in the deck type. Maybe my insight may help you as certainly some of yours has helped me.
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
5x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 26
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
2x Nyxborn Shieldmate
3x Underworld Coinsmith
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Herald of Torment
2x Lifebane Zombie
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Underworld Connections
3x Thoughtseize
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Underworld Connections
1x Deicide
1x Drown in Sorrow
1x Lifebane Zombie
2x Hero's Downfall
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
4x Duress
So of the matches I played, the games I was winning I never truly got to complete because the opponent conceeded. I guess that is telling enough though. I played a handful of matches agianst a few decks. The one of note that I found very frustrating was against a G/B deck. Both games he dropped a Desecration Demon turn 4 and on Turn 5 I used Oppresive Rays on it. I was on the play both times. Again on turn 5 and six he dropped another Demon each turn. I just couldn't deal with that and the fact that he managed to do nothing but drop three Demons each game, what luck? Who knows what else was in his deck because I only ever saw 3 Demons each game.
The other thing I find I have a lot of trouble with is G/x Ramp. They simply outclass my threats by turn 5 and stabalize with anywhere from 4-10 life and then its all over. I'm really torn here because I'm not sure what I need to do. More Ultimate Price would be awesome, maybe 2 in the board because Orzhov Charm is a liability here. The other consideration always comes back to Blood Baron. During these matches I always end up with a ton of life when they finally ramp to their threats and Blood Baron could sweep up the game but at the same time his protections are irrelavent in these matches so he could just eat removal or a counter and then I'm back where I started. These matches are actually what got me looking at him in the first place. I'm not sure if Herald of Torment, which was my other idea, could fill this role as well but I think that the Herald would be better against other decks.
The only reason I don't just auto-swap Herald for Countless Battles is their bestow cost. I can't really support the five mana bestow, not unless I increase my land count. If I do that then I risk flooding more often as my actual creatures top off at 3 mana.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
I run 22 land and I bestow Herald as often as I hard cast him. You may have a little more trouble because of all the basics but I don't think net mana should be a problem. Bad luck against the Demons but it's part of the game. You cant get shaken up to hard by that. I think against Jund or G/x Stompy you just have to aggressively mulligan go for the throat early and hope you can take a herald over the top to finish them off before they out class you. I actually started taking out oppressive rays in that matchup beforei dropped it altogether. It's great against mystic but terrible against caryatid and stormbreath. I'll gladly trade a 1 drop for mystic all day.... but youhave to get ethereal armor or flying to really havea good chance. Ultimate price is also good in that matchup.
Underworld Coinsmith is a freaking house man. He has a huge target on his head everytime he is on board. I can't believe it. He is so unassuming!
I think I'm going to skip the Blood Barons for now. I worry that it is just a win more. The thing is my deck feels so much like Soul Sisters between Hopeful Eidolon + Ethereal Armor and Underworld Coinsmith that Blood Baron feels like an auto-include. Getting over 30 life really isn't that hard but getting the opponent under 10 fast enough for his ability to be relavent is not consistent. I mean, he is a one hit kill once you do and I find that is my biggest challenge, capitalizing on my huge lead. I've decided to go with Herald of Torment because I hope that he will be more consistent and even help me swing games I otherwise might have lost. The other thing to is that Eidolon of Countless Battles often did what I wanted Blood Baron to do which is immediately close out a game because he can occasional swing for huge amounts one Bestowed. Unlike Baron though he is extremely weak on his own. He is a 3 cmc 1/1 so much of time. At least Blood Baron is a 4/4 Lifelink at the worst and extremely hard to deal with at the best. I could see him being a sideboard card against G/B Constellation decks because the only way they could deal with him is through combat.
G/B Constellation is a very difficult matchup for me becuase they often stabalize on turn 4-6 and the out card advantage me. I played a version last night where I destroyed the guy game 1 and then game 2 he boarded in a ton of removal. I saw 2 Golgari Charms, 2 Abrubt Decays, 2 Hero's Downfall, and a Doomwake Giant. Game 3 it was pretty much the same thing but I mis-played at the end. I had brought in 3 Duress and at the end of the game it was between taking Bile Blight or that 6cmc Green enchantment that gives you a 3/3 token when you play a creature, 3 +1/+1 counters when you play a non-creature, and 3 life for a land. I took the removal thinking I could fight through the card advantage since his hand was nearly empty. He pulled an Eidolon of Blossoms on his top deck and I just couldn't keep up.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
So truth be told I'm taking this deck to the Grand Prix Chicago this coming weekend, so I'm running out of time to tweak it. This is what I'm thinking about running though I have a handful of cards with me that I will probably be waffling on up until Friday night. I'll probably start focusing on re-building my sideboarding matchups over the next day or so which may lead to me changing the sideboard up a bit...granted I've spent so much time honing to date that unless I just find a card I'm typically unlikely to ever side in I'm probably pretty close to set at this point.
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple of Silence
1x Orzhov Guildgate
2x Mutavault
2x Mana Confluence
4x Plains
5x Swamp
Creatures - 27
4x Gnarled Scarhide
3x Hopeful Eidolon
2x Nyxborn Shieldmate
3x Underworld Coinsmith
2x Athreos, God of Passage
2x Eidolon of Countless Battles
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Herald of Torment
3x Lifebane Zombie
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Underworld Connections
3x Thoughtseize
1x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Lifebane Zombie
1x Underworld Connections
1x Drown in Sorrow
1x Hero's Downfall
2x Deicide
3x Nyx-Fleece Ram
4x Duress
Cards on the cutting room floor...some are still fighting for life: