what i would like to point out to everyone is that this thread is incredibly similar to the BG combo version of this deck, and the dredge version of this deck. which i would like to point out is already in competative established. to make this deck overall smoother, if you are going dredge, enchantments. i would pick the card immortal servitude
@TwinSais: You might want to check some of the later lists--I'll be updating the main post to better reflect where the deck is now, but for now, ThoughtXRiot's most recent list on the second page is a good representative of where the deck currently is.
However, the main criticisms still stand, and I'll address them. Eidolon of Blossoms is a fragile card, but with the disruption suite this deck runs and the drawing power it has, it isn't too difficult to get an Eidolon of Blossoms to stick eventually, and this deck excels at getting to the late game. Not to mention, in the matchups where Eidolon of Blossoms is hard to kill, the Eidolon is fairly insane. Otherwise she's still excellent, only really being *bad* against UWx control, which is why it is our hardest game 1 matchup. Even against monoblack devotion, she provides a way to start outdrawing them, especially after we've both started topdecking.
We're not trying to aggro anyone out--we're almost always the 'control' deck in whatever matchup we come across, with the obvious exception of UWx control. Boon Satyr and Herald of Torment are good early game creatures to either provide meat shields or provide pressure, and they can be bestowed in the late game to overwhelm the opponent. After copious amounts of testing with this deck, I can say that I've been satisfied with their performance. When they're cantripping, they're even more potent.
Extingish All Hope is currently a 1-of for me, but running Plague Wind in standard is not remotely fair, and is well worth the 6 mana casting cost. We run enough removal and sturdy creatures to be able to outlast aggro into the late game where the sweeper can finish them off, and the same goes for Midrange, where Extinguish All Hope is a brutal stallbreaker, and a second copy joins the first against the matchups it is good against.
Pharika is anything but do-nothing in every matchup save Monoblue Devotion, where our creatures aren't dying and her snakes wouldn't be able to block anyone anyways. Her snakes trigger constellation and serve as formidable roadblocks, especially against decks like RG monsters, which is going to essentially need Stormbreath Dragon to go over them. If our creatures are dying, she's creating snakes to get us to the late game, where we excel. If our creatures are NOT dying, however, she's a 5/5 indestructible creature that wears Heralds of Torment like a dream. She does something the deck wants either way. The snakes block Pack Rat and it's spawn, Lifebane Zombies, most of RG monsters, and various hexproof creatures and other aggressive creatures from the many possible aggro decks in the format. And as the game wears on, she gets even better.
This deck isn't trying to do anything flashy. We're just trying to outlast the opponent and drag them into a late game attrition match that is very difficult for us to lose. We have the tools to take the game there, with ample removal and disruption, as well as bulky creatures to stem the tide of aggressive decks. Whatever large creature manages to dodge our discard and removal spells can then be met with a creature buffed up with a Boon Satyr or Herald of Torment.
On paper, the deck doesn't appear to be doing anything obviously powerful, but I've tested this deck a lot against many kinds of strategies, and this deck is strong, with it's only terrible matchup being against UWx control, which the sideboard rectifies. Monoblue devotion is a good matchup for us, as they often can't kill us fast enough, and our sideboarded creatures make games 2 and 3 heavily in our favor. Monoblack devotion is a decent matchup, as both decks end up running a substantial amount of removal, and neither deck's early threats make much of an impact at all, but we can definitely outlast them. If an Eidolon ever gets online we can blaze past them, and our Abrupt Decays are live here, taking out their Underworld Connections and making it ever more difficult for them to fight us in the late game. RG monsters is a good matchup, where Eidolon and Pharika really get to shine. We just have the removal we need, and Brain Maggot is especially powerful here. This isn't mere theorycrafting, I've tested these matchups several times.
We trade raw power for versatility, synergy, and card advantage. The winning strategy is often just throwing a Herald of Torment on almost anything and getting there as our opponent topdecks and is crushed under the weight of our card advantage. We don't need to obliterate an opponent to win, we just have to be the last one standing.
Regarding the dredge strategy, I've seen that tossed around and it's really a totally different kind of deck. Furthermore, I'm not convinced a dredge enchantment list is really better than the traditional dredge deck. You get Eidolon of Blossoms at the cost of the sheer power dredge lists are feared for. These lists don't have the removal and discard that the GB midrange enchantress lists have to protect themselves, and so you lose the power cards like Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord andShadowborn Demon provide you. Some enchantments naturally fit into Dredge---Nyx Weaver and Pharika, God of Affliction are natural possible additions to the deck, but giving up power for card draw seems incorrect in a deck that is dependent on blasting past the opponent. A good friend of mine plays GB dredge currently, so I've played against and with the deck enough to have a general grasp on what it needs, and the card draw that Eidolon of Blossoms provides is not that.
Are you going to play the card turn 3 when you could be dropping Nemesis of Mortals instead? Is the cantripping ability worth going down on any of your cards that fuel the graveyard, or any of your current finishers? Spending a turn not beefing up the graveyard or landing a must-answer threat will just give your opponent more time to get to you. It'll allow the aggro decks to have more game against you, and Control is safe for another turn. The card is powerful, but there isn't anything I'd cut in the dredge list for a slower card like Eidolon in a deck that can't support it with what Eidolon of Blossoms needs to thrive. GB dredge is a powerful deck, but this deck is doing something entirely different and it's hard to compare the two decks.
I've looked at the GB combo list that's been floating around salvation, and that list is even more durdly than this one, which is really saying something. The deck is caught between trying to be a constellation midrange deck and some kind of dredge list, and trying to maintain both themes seems too much for the deck. The deck lacks the removal or disruption to stop an opponent from going along with their plans because it needs to run it's 'combo pieces', so it's essentially going all in on the dredge plan, while not having any of the aggression that dredge decks have. You pray you don't mill your Immortal Servitudes while hoping that you can stop aggro decks and RG monsters by...running a lot of 3-drops. I'm sure it's a fun deck, but if we're talking competitive play here, I can't see it doing much at all.
Not exactly sure how to post the decklist via mobile but here ya go, Darksteel Eye's midrange dredge. 4 Elvish Mystic, 4 Satyr Wayfindsr, 2 Deathrite Shaman, 4 Nighthowler, 4 Nemesis of Mortals, 3 Herald of Torment, 2 Boon Satyr, 1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, 1 Nylea, God of the Hunt, 1 Pharika, 2 Lotleth Troll, 1 Shadowborn Demon, 1 Bow of Nylea, 4 Commune, 4 grisly salvage ... 22 lands
Why does one not run a full playset of Mana Blooms? Having multiples with just one Doomwake Giant or one Eidolon of Blossoms seems insane - sometimes it'd be a dud (drawing cards when you need to impact the board) but it still reads so powerful as an engine (the cards you've drawn should help you dig down to the answers)?
The GB Enchantress build is really intriguing me. I'm a little against RTR block cards at the moment as I'm a little bit strapped for cash so I'm going to focus on the Theros cards.
I'm just trying to lay down some early critters that can block and attack and then try and win with some reach with the three semi card advantage spells we have. With the 26 enchantments we would be really unlucky to get less than two enchantments of the insight and may even get three half the time.
I do want to have access to a light removal package. For now I'm going with 2/2 splits on the removal. Also the quality of the discard is too hard to pass but I have relegated it to the SIDE. Dictate is a card I'm unsure of but I'm willing to give a go as I hate loosing to desecration demon SOOO much.
Question from an outsider.
Why does one not run a full playset of Mana Blooms? Having multiples with just one Doomwake Giant or one Eidolon of Blossoms seems insane - sometimes it'd be a dud (drawing cards when you need to impact the board) but it still reads so powerful as an engine (the cards you've drawn should help you dig down to the answers)?
I can say it has mostly to do with not wanting to draw multiples. The enchantments I want to see multiples of are the creatures.
Is Pharika, God of Affliction a MD card here? In my testing, other than drawing me a card off of EoB, it really did not do much as it's ability never really was incredibly helpful. (I'd post the list I tested with, but I'm away from my PC atm and apparently didn't save it elsewhere )
I will say that EoB is nice for card advantage (and in testing I did actually bury an esper deck with it), and I think I'm going to try running it and Mana Bloom, as well as a few other enchantments as a possible pseudo-draw engine, but I cannot see completely abandoning things like Reaper of the Wilds and it's ilk from the normal BG decks.
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I built a BG enchantment deck last night and added Oath of the Ancient Wood. I added it as kind of a goof but it ended up being an all star. Flashing in 5/3 boon satyrs and making 3/3 EoBs as well as 2/2 deathtouch snakes was pretty great. plus it makes combat tricks pretty sweet. I was also running 4 Font of fertility. It was great to get constillation triggers and ramp to 4 mana on turn 3.
A couple things before I go to sleep: My list is looking more and more like ThoughtXRiot's, and I think that general structure is the way this deck is going to look. Doomwake Giant works well in the maindeck, and it swings certain matchups from "good" to "very difficult to actually lose". However, It's likely better to keep him in the sideboard stables instead of having him be okay in a few matchups and useless in some others. Against essentially any aggressive deck he'll be coming in, and he's a hellion there--monoblue and hexproof often cannot beat a resolved Doomwake Giant. But I think balancing matchups is probably more important at this point.
The list I'm testing with now is actually identical to ThoughtXRiot's, with the only difference being that I'm running four Brain Maggots and three Heralds of Torment, as opposed to the reverse. His sideboarding plans are definitely solid and more concrete than mine had been. ThoughtXRiot, your list looks very potent, thank you for posting it here.
It might be because I haven't actually gotten a chance to sit down and jam some actual games with the deck that is causing me to underrate Brain Maggot. I'm going to take your advice and run 4.
Why does one not run a full playset of Mana Blooms? Having multiples with just one Doomwake Giant or one Eidolon of Blossoms seems insane - sometimes it'd be a dud (drawing cards when you need to impact the board) but it still reads so powerful as an engine (the cards you've drawn should help you dig down to the answers)?
Drawing multiples when you don't have a constellation engine running is just far too bad.
Is Pharika, God of Affliction a MD card here? In my testing, other than drawing me a card off of EoB, it really did not do much as it's ability never really was incredibly helpful. (I'd post the list I tested with, but I'm away from my PC atm and apparently didn't save it elsewhere )
I'm thinking I might move 1 Pharika to the board, swapping it with a removal spell.
I'm going to test this deck between rounds at my FNM draft tomorrow, with the goal of playing it on Saturday at an SCG IQ. Hopefully I can cobble together the last few cards I need for it.
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Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
I wouldn't. The card is glacially slow and basically kills Zombie? I guess in theory he can kill some rats but that just seems very clunky, not to mention unlikely. I would rather just board more EaH if you're on that plan.
It might be because I haven't actually gotten a chance to sit down and jam some actual games with the deck that is causing me to underrate Brain Maggot. I'm going to take your advice and run 4.
Maggot is pretty good at forcing opponents to play a game at your pace and works really well with all the added discard in the Control MU. Pretty solid in most Aggro/Burn MU's too since it taxes their resources in a MU they are less favored in anyway.
I'm thinking I might move 1 Pharika to the board, swapping it with a removal spell.
I've been liking 2 tbh, as far as added removal goes I've been liking Putrefy in some number in the 75 as you really need broader removal against Mutavault/ Demon/ Dragon etc.
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Nothing like having doomwake giant out, casting fated intervention and giving all your opponent's creatures -2/-2...for most aggressive decks that's a game over.
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
I have tried some W/B Constellation builds (Grim Guardian is a little too slow to beat Control) and now I want to try a more Midrange build of G/B. I won't get to fully test this list until FNM tomorrow, but I really like the thoughts and builds of ThoughtxRiot and others. So this is my take on the deck:
So after the above posts I decided to look for what from Theros made Enchantment Creature tokens and the only really viable card was Fated Intervention(as mentioned above). but on paper it really does give the deck some added reach IMO. One card that can give -2/-2 to the entire opponent's field or draw two cards and still drops 6 power across 2 bodies at instant speed gives the deck some more punch. I also really like the Centaur tokens as threats as one of them wearing a Herald of Torment can trade with Desecration Demon and we still end up with a 3/3 flyer. I am going to try the deck without the Sylvan Carytids, I might go up to 25 lands in that case. I just think that between 4 Coursers, 2 Mana Blooms, and considerable draw we should be able to hit 5 land by turn 6 at the latest. I added 2 Putrefy as additional high end removal. I moved the Golgari Charm to the side becasue of this and I am trying out 1 Doomwake Giant in the main board.
Fated Intervention is interesting, but I don't think it does enough. Two 3/3s for five mana is just weak compared to what the rest of the format is doing come that stage of the game.
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Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
I've been tinkering with building a deck like this for fun and then after having read this thread it looks like there might actually be *something* here.
I like idea of Fated Intervention, it seems like its worth considering at least. Having access the that and Boon Satyr at least gives you an angle to beat UW/X control, that and theres obvious bonkers synergy with Giant/Eidolon etc
If people are looking to mana ramp, is Font of Fertility not worth testing? we are doing little to nothing T1 (only thoughtsieze) so the extra mana isnt much of a cost, it also has synergy with Courser being able to shuffle your deck which is not irrelevant.
Mana Bloom, whilst it also has obvious synergy with Eidolon and Giant seems a bit 'too cute' its not a good ramp spell early as it goes away and you have to reinvest it, and if late in the game you're 'going off' with it and Eidolon you got to untap with Eidolon and play an enchantment and start drawing cards. Feels like it would probably 'win more' than actually get you ahead, with virtually any other card in our deck doing the same thing but actually putting something on the board. I think Font is probably better overall.
If people are looking to mana ramp, is Font of Fertility not worth testing? we are doing little to nothing T1 (only thoughtsieze) so the extra mana isnt much of a cost, it also has synergy with Courser being able to shuffle your deck which is not irrelevant.
Mana Bloom, whilst it also has obvious synergy with Eidolon and Giant seems a bit 'too cute' its not a good ramp spell early as it goes away and you have to reinvest it, and if late in the game you're 'going off' with it and Eidolon you got to untap with Eidolon and play an enchantment and start drawing cards. Feels like it would probably 'win more' than actually get you ahead, with virtually any other card in our deck doing the same thing but actually putting something on the board. I think Font is probably better overall.
We have 10 "comes into play tapped" lands technically, most of my test drawing I have wanted to drop a Tapped land turn 1 or on rare occasions Thoughtseize turn 1. Font still requires 3 mana and possibly a shock over two turns to get any value. Mana Bloom is a decent engine in the deck and that it can mana fix is nice.
I see what you're saying but Mana Bloom fixing mana is still going to cost 2 for just one time, Font will get the land permanently. Also late in the game, unless you have the Eidolon in play (again, if we're untapping and getting to cast enchantments for free Mana Bloom can probably be any other enchantment at this point, the CA will snowball very quickly) it does literally nothing. At least Font does have other uses, i hate the argument generally but it does thin your deck and the interaction with courser is probably going to come up more than people think.
That being said i could be totally wrong and Bloom is insane. Though i'd argue if we want a late game draw engine that Kruphix's insight is probably still better, as it makes sure we hit relevant spells (unless digging for removal)
The more I goldfish the deck, the less I like Mana Bloom. It's very awkward as ramp, and when you have Eidolon going in the late game, you don't need an enchantment that just cantrips every turn - your creatures cantripping plus Connections is plenty. I'm going to replace them with a third Caryatid (still like the ramp it provides) and a 4th maindeck Thoughtseize (replacing the sideboarded one with a third Duress).
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Fated Intervention is a bit pricey. The double constellation triggers are nice, but it doesn't feel like it's a powerful enough card for the late game to justify the cost, especially if you don't have an Eidolon out. I'd rather go up on Boon Satyrs, and I'm already only running 2.
Font of Fertility is just far too slow. It requires a turn 1 overgrown tomb or forest, and coming down any other turn than 1 makes the card very disappointing. Mana Bloom is a better topdeck, and continues to provide devotion for Pharika later on. I tested the card before I tested Mana Bloom, and it was very disappointing. Mana Bloom definitely seems like it's going to be too cute, but it works. You likely don't want more than two of the card, but with the low mana curve of the deck I run, you often don't need the ramp outside of getting up to Eidolon of Blossoms. Also running Sylvan Caryatid also helps.
I played almost this exact same list at my WNM last night and went 1-3. I am not very good with write-ups but I can give you guys the general gist of each individual match.
Round 1 vs. Mono Black B
Game 1: Playing Thoughseize turn 1 revealed a little something like Underworld Connections, Whip of Erebos, 2x Hero's Downfall, Mutavault and 2 swamp. Brain Maggot came down on turn 2 and I stripped him of Hero's Downfall I think. That was probably a bad play but I had a Courser of Kruphix, a Underworld Connections and Eidolon of Blossoms in hand. I figured that removing 1 kill spell would buy me some time while the significant card draw in my hand would have, in theory, allowed me to outrace him since he had very little threats in hand, save for that 1x Mutavault. I think he just played land on turn 2. Turn 3 I played Courser, he played Lifebane Zombie. My turn 4 was bust and I just played Underworld Connections. He used his spare Downfall to kill Maggot and starting swinging with intimidate. I used Underworld Connections a couple of times and eventually drew into Abrupt Decay but by that time he had used his recovered Downfall on Courser, had dropped another mutavault, played Whip, and finished me off with Gary.
Game 2: I sided in more discard and Golgari Charm for the regenerate. It didn't do any good. A turn 1 Duress revealed essentially the same Game 1 hand, except with Dark Betrayal replacing Hero's Downfall. He killed off a Herald of Torment and then another but I was able to try out Eidolon of Blossoms and Pharika. They both underperformed. I created 2x snake tokens, one of which ate a Mutavault, but by then he had drawn into a whip and Gary. The only thing that I could Abrupt Decay at that point was his Underworld Connections. I was hit with a Thoughtseize at some point.
RESULT 0-2
Round 2 v. Esper Control WUB
Game 1: I got hammered.
Game 2: I was able to play Herald on Turn 3, Eidolon on Turn 4, Bestow Herald on turn 5 and swing. He played Detention Sphere on HeraldS and stabilized with Blood Baron which bought him enough time to eventually drop and overrun me with Elspeth.
RESULT 0-2
Round 3 v. Junk BGW
Game 1: Thoughtseized 1 of the 2 Advent Wurm, played Herald, go it Decayed. He played another Advent of the Wurm, I played Eidolon of Blossoms. He followed that up with Obzedat and eventually Angel of Thune.
Game 2: Same deal.
RESULT 0-2
Round 4 v. Boros WR
Game 1: He applied early pressure with 2x Ash Zealot. Courser slowed him down a bit but he used two spells to kill it and continued his beatdown. It was close but I lost game 1.
Game 2: Sylvan Caryatid was in opening hand. Completely crushed his game. By the time he drew into Phoenix, I had Courser, Eidolon, and Doomwake Giant in play.
Game 3: Went down like Game 2. Caryatid ruined his game. He played a couple of Chained to the Rocks but I Decayed them and continued swinging for the win.
RESULT 2-1
The deck is just incredibly slow. While we're dropping 2/2 for four mana, they are playing real cards. Without ramp, or even a good early game blocker, we can forget about stabilizing or Bestowing. Our biggest natural body is Courser at 4 toughness, but with with the deck's overall weak offensive power out of the gate, it posed nearly no threat to opposing strategies, except against the aggro player in Game 4. The 3cc is cluttered, and the 4cc might as well be non-existant with the overall weak Eidolon of Blossoms which *might* net us 2-3 cards, assuming it survives that long but even then, chances are, you're still just drawing into Courser, which isn't great on turn 5, or Herald, which is nice to Bestow if your opponent hasn't already played 2x removal cards at this point.
Wouldn't it be possible to take the removal suite from Hoogland's Junk midrange and this just be a better deck. It seems like EoB would love some banishing light. This also gives us access to Heliod and Collective Blessings which can just run away with a game easily.
After seeing most of the list here. How is Primeval Bounty not in anyone's list? The only match up it isn't good in is aggro and this deck already bricks them with Courser.
Even a 2 of Dark Prophecy or in the board seems good to me. With connections and prophecy on the board that is enough devotion for an active Phirak from hard to remove permanents.
Dark Prophecy is far too difficult to cast and you have no sac outlets to take advantage of it. Primeval Bounty is definitely a card I completely forgot about. At least 1 should be in the 75 for sure.
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Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
Dark Prophecy is far too difficult to cast and you have no sac outlets to take advantage of it. Primeval Bounty is definitely a card I completely forgot about. At least 1 should be in the 75 for sure.
It shouldn't be that hard to cast really. You don't need a sac outlet to take advantage of it. Think of it like your 5-6th EoB. Your opponent's removal turns into a cantrip for you. Chump blocks replace themselves. Combat trades turn in your favor. It is also a good source of non-creature devotion which will keep Phirak active more often and longer. If you look at mono-blue it isn't their creatures I'm afraid of. It is bident and jace permanently turning on Thassa with hard to interact with permanents.
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However, the main criticisms still stand, and I'll address them. Eidolon of Blossoms is a fragile card, but with the disruption suite this deck runs and the drawing power it has, it isn't too difficult to get an Eidolon of Blossoms to stick eventually, and this deck excels at getting to the late game. Not to mention, in the matchups where Eidolon of Blossoms is hard to kill, the Eidolon is fairly insane. Otherwise she's still excellent, only really being *bad* against UWx control, which is why it is our hardest game 1 matchup. Even against monoblack devotion, she provides a way to start outdrawing them, especially after we've both started topdecking.
We're not trying to aggro anyone out--we're almost always the 'control' deck in whatever matchup we come across, with the obvious exception of UWx control. Boon Satyr and Herald of Torment are good early game creatures to either provide meat shields or provide pressure, and they can be bestowed in the late game to overwhelm the opponent. After copious amounts of testing with this deck, I can say that I've been satisfied with their performance. When they're cantripping, they're even more potent.
Extingish All Hope is currently a 1-of for me, but running Plague Wind in standard is not remotely fair, and is well worth the 6 mana casting cost. We run enough removal and sturdy creatures to be able to outlast aggro into the late game where the sweeper can finish them off, and the same goes for Midrange, where Extinguish All Hope is a brutal stallbreaker, and a second copy joins the first against the matchups it is good against.
Pharika is anything but do-nothing in every matchup save Monoblue Devotion, where our creatures aren't dying and her snakes wouldn't be able to block anyone anyways. Her snakes trigger constellation and serve as formidable roadblocks, especially against decks like RG monsters, which is going to essentially need Stormbreath Dragon to go over them. If our creatures are dying, she's creating snakes to get us to the late game, where we excel. If our creatures are NOT dying, however, she's a 5/5 indestructible creature that wears Heralds of Torment like a dream. She does something the deck wants either way. The snakes block Pack Rat and it's spawn, Lifebane Zombies, most of RG monsters, and various hexproof creatures and other aggressive creatures from the many possible aggro decks in the format. And as the game wears on, she gets even better.
This deck isn't trying to do anything flashy. We're just trying to outlast the opponent and drag them into a late game attrition match that is very difficult for us to lose. We have the tools to take the game there, with ample removal and disruption, as well as bulky creatures to stem the tide of aggressive decks. Whatever large creature manages to dodge our discard and removal spells can then be met with a creature buffed up with a Boon Satyr or Herald of Torment.
On paper, the deck doesn't appear to be doing anything obviously powerful, but I've tested this deck a lot against many kinds of strategies, and this deck is strong, with it's only terrible matchup being against UWx control, which the sideboard rectifies. Monoblue devotion is a good matchup for us, as they often can't kill us fast enough, and our sideboarded creatures make games 2 and 3 heavily in our favor. Monoblack devotion is a decent matchup, as both decks end up running a substantial amount of removal, and neither deck's early threats make much of an impact at all, but we can definitely outlast them. If an Eidolon ever gets online we can blaze past them, and our Abrupt Decays are live here, taking out their Underworld Connections and making it ever more difficult for them to fight us in the late game. RG monsters is a good matchup, where Eidolon and Pharika really get to shine. We just have the removal we need, and Brain Maggot is especially powerful here. This isn't mere theorycrafting, I've tested these matchups several times.
We trade raw power for versatility, synergy, and card advantage. The winning strategy is often just throwing a Herald of Torment on almost anything and getting there as our opponent topdecks and is crushed under the weight of our card advantage. We don't need to obliterate an opponent to win, we just have to be the last one standing.
Regarding the dredge strategy, I've seen that tossed around and it's really a totally different kind of deck. Furthermore, I'm not convinced a dredge enchantment list is really better than the traditional dredge deck. You get Eidolon of Blossoms at the cost of the sheer power dredge lists are feared for. These lists don't have the removal and discard that the GB midrange enchantress lists have to protect themselves, and so you lose the power cards like Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord andShadowborn Demon provide you. Some enchantments naturally fit into Dredge---Nyx Weaver and Pharika, God of Affliction are natural possible additions to the deck, but giving up power for card draw seems incorrect in a deck that is dependent on blasting past the opponent. A good friend of mine plays GB dredge currently, so I've played against and with the deck enough to have a general grasp on what it needs, and the card draw that Eidolon of Blossoms provides is not that.
Are you going to play the card turn 3 when you could be dropping Nemesis of Mortals instead? Is the cantripping ability worth going down on any of your cards that fuel the graveyard, or any of your current finishers? Spending a turn not beefing up the graveyard or landing a must-answer threat will just give your opponent more time to get to you. It'll allow the aggro decks to have more game against you, and Control is safe for another turn. The card is powerful, but there isn't anything I'd cut in the dredge list for a slower card like Eidolon in a deck that can't support it with what Eidolon of Blossoms needs to thrive. GB dredge is a powerful deck, but this deck is doing something entirely different and it's hard to compare the two decks.
I've looked at the GB combo list that's been floating around salvation, and that list is even more durdly than this one, which is really saying something. The deck is caught between trying to be a constellation midrange deck and some kind of dredge list, and trying to maintain both themes seems too much for the deck. The deck lacks the removal or disruption to stop an opponent from going along with their plans because it needs to run it's 'combo pieces', so it's essentially going all in on the dredge plan, while not having any of the aggression that dredge decks have. You pray you don't mill your Immortal Servitudes while hoping that you can stop aggro decks and RG monsters by...running a lot of 3-drops. I'm sure it's a fun deck, but if we're talking competitive play here, I can't see it doing much at all.
Why does one not run a full playset of Mana Blooms? Having multiples with just one Doomwake Giant or one Eidolon of Blossoms seems insane - sometimes it'd be a dud (drawing cards when you need to impact the board) but it still reads so powerful as an engine (the cards you've drawn should help you dig down to the answers)?
I'm running this list.
2 Fate Unraveler
4 Herald of Torment
3 Spiteful Returned
2 Reviving Melody
4 Kruphix's Insight
3 Mana Bloom
3 Boon Satyr
3 Leafcrown Dryad
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Dictate of Erebos
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
2 Gild
2 Doom blade
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Gild
2 Doomblade
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Duress / TS
3 Green Disenchant
I'm just trying to lay down some early critters that can block and attack and then try and win with some reach with the three semi card advantage spells we have. With the 26 enchantments we would be really unlucky to get less than two enchantments of the insight and may even get three half the time.
I do want to have access to a light removal package. For now I'm going with 2/2 splits on the removal. Also the quality of the discard is too hard to pass but I have relegated it to the SIDE. Dictate is a card I'm unsure of but I'm willing to give a go as I hate loosing to desecration demon SOOO much.
I can say it has mostly to do with not wanting to draw multiples. The enchantments I want to see multiples of are the creatures.
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Nyx Weaver
2 Pharika, God of Affliction
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Doomwake Giant
Spells:11
2 Mana Bloom
4 Banishing Light
4 Kruphix's Insight
1 Extinguish All Hope
4 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Temple of Malady
4 Temple of Plenty
4 Temple of Silence
2 Illness in the Ranks
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Aegis of the Gods
2 Brain Maggot
1 Deicide
2 Golgari Charm
I will say that EoB is nice for card advantage (and in testing I did actually bury an esper deck with it), and I think I'm going to try running it and Mana Bloom, as well as a few other enchantments as a possible pseudo-draw engine, but I cannot see completely abandoning things like Reaper of the Wilds and it's ilk from the normal BG decks.
― Oscar Levant
-Decks Testing-
RockstarsBG
Deck | Thread
Would you bring him in against Monoblack?
It might be because I haven't actually gotten a chance to sit down and jam some actual games with the deck that is causing me to underrate Brain Maggot. I'm going to take your advice and run 4.
Drawing multiples when you don't have a constellation engine running is just far too bad.
I'm thinking I might move 1 Pharika to the board, swapping it with a removal spell.
I'm going to test this deck between rounds at my FNM draft tomorrow, with the goal of playing it on Saturday at an SCG IQ. Hopefully I can cobble together the last few cards I need for it.
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I wouldn't. The card is glacially slow and basically kills Zombie? I guess in theory he can kill some rats but that just seems very clunky, not to mention unlikely. I would rather just board more EaH if you're on that plan.
Maggot is pretty good at forcing opponents to play a game at your pace and works really well with all the added discard in the Control MU. Pretty solid in most Aggro/Burn MU's too since it taxes their resources in a MU they are less favored in anyway.
I've been liking 2 tbh, as far as added removal goes I've been liking Putrefy in some number in the 75 as you really need broader removal against Mutavault/ Demon/ Dragon etc.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
—Radha, Keldon warlord
2 Boon Satyr
3 Brain Maggot
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 Doomwake Giant
4 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Herald of Torment
2 Pharika, God of Affliction
Sorcery (4)
1 Extinguish All Hope
3 Thoughtseize
Enchantment (4)
2 Mana Bloom
2 Underworld Connections
6 Forest
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Mutavault
4 Overgrown Tomb
6 Swamp
4 Temple of Malady
Instant (9)
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Devour Flesh
2 Fated Intervention
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Putrefy
1 Bile Blight
1 Dark Betrayal
1 Devour Flesh
1 Doom Blade
1 Doomwake Giant
2 Duress
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Extinguish All Hope
2 Golgari Charm
2 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Thoughtseize
1 Underworld Connections
So after the above posts I decided to look for what from Theros made Enchantment Creature tokens and the only really viable card was Fated Intervention(as mentioned above). but on paper it really does give the deck some added reach IMO. One card that can give -2/-2 to the entire opponent's field or draw two cards and still drops 6 power across 2 bodies at instant speed gives the deck some more punch. I also really like the Centaur tokens as threats as one of them wearing a Herald of Torment can trade with Desecration Demon and we still end up with a 3/3 flyer. I am going to try the deck without the Sylvan Carytids, I might go up to 25 lands in that case. I just think that between 4 Coursers, 2 Mana Blooms, and considerable draw we should be able to hit 5 land by turn 6 at the latest. I added 2 Putrefy as additional high end removal. I moved the Golgari Charm to the side becasue of this and I am trying out 1 Doomwake Giant in the main board.
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
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I like idea of Fated Intervention, it seems like its worth considering at least. Having access the that and Boon Satyr at least gives you an angle to beat UW/X control, that and theres obvious bonkers synergy with Giant/Eidolon etc
If people are looking to mana ramp, is Font of Fertility not worth testing? we are doing little to nothing T1 (only thoughtsieze) so the extra mana isnt much of a cost, it also has synergy with Courser being able to shuffle your deck which is not irrelevant.
Mana Bloom, whilst it also has obvious synergy with Eidolon and Giant seems a bit 'too cute' its not a good ramp spell early as it goes away and you have to reinvest it, and if late in the game you're 'going off' with it and Eidolon you got to untap with Eidolon and play an enchantment and start drawing cards. Feels like it would probably 'win more' than actually get you ahead, with virtually any other card in our deck doing the same thing but actually putting something on the board. I think Font is probably better overall.
We have 10 "comes into play tapped" lands technically, most of my test drawing I have wanted to drop a Tapped land turn 1 or on rare occasions Thoughtseize turn 1. Font still requires 3 mana and possibly a shock over two turns to get any value. Mana Bloom is a decent engine in the deck and that it can mana fix is nice.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
That being said i could be totally wrong and Bloom is insane. Though i'd argue if we want a late game draw engine that Kruphix's insight is probably still better, as it makes sure we hit relevant spells (unless digging for removal)
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Font of Fertility is just far too slow. It requires a turn 1 overgrown tomb or forest, and coming down any other turn than 1 makes the card very disappointing. Mana Bloom is a better topdeck, and continues to provide devotion for Pharika later on. I tested the card before I tested Mana Bloom, and it was very disappointing. Mana Bloom definitely seems like it's going to be too cute, but it works. You likely don't want more than two of the card, but with the low mana curve of the deck I run, you often don't need the ramp outside of getting up to Eidolon of Blossoms. Also running Sylvan Caryatid also helps.
I played almost this exact same list at my WNM last night and went 1-3. I am not very good with write-ups but I can give you guys the general gist of each individual match.
Round 1 vs. Mono Black B
Game 1: Playing Thoughseize turn 1 revealed a little something like Underworld Connections, Whip of Erebos, 2x Hero's Downfall, Mutavault and 2 swamp. Brain Maggot came down on turn 2 and I stripped him of Hero's Downfall I think. That was probably a bad play but I had a Courser of Kruphix, a Underworld Connections and Eidolon of Blossoms in hand. I figured that removing 1 kill spell would buy me some time while the significant card draw in my hand would have, in theory, allowed me to outrace him since he had very little threats in hand, save for that 1x Mutavault. I think he just played land on turn 2. Turn 3 I played Courser, he played Lifebane Zombie. My turn 4 was bust and I just played Underworld Connections. He used his spare Downfall to kill Maggot and starting swinging with intimidate. I used Underworld Connections a couple of times and eventually drew into Abrupt Decay but by that time he had used his recovered Downfall on Courser, had dropped another mutavault, played Whip, and finished me off with Gary.
Game 2: I sided in more discard and Golgari Charm for the regenerate. It didn't do any good. A turn 1 Duress revealed essentially the same Game 1 hand, except with Dark Betrayal replacing Hero's Downfall. He killed off a Herald of Torment and then another but I was able to try out Eidolon of Blossoms and Pharika. They both underperformed. I created 2x snake tokens, one of which ate a Mutavault, but by then he had drawn into a whip and Gary. The only thing that I could Abrupt Decay at that point was his Underworld Connections. I was hit with a Thoughtseize at some point.
RESULT 0-2
Round 2 v. Esper Control WUB
Game 1: I got hammered.
Game 2: I was able to play Herald on Turn 3, Eidolon on Turn 4, Bestow Herald on turn 5 and swing. He played Detention Sphere on HeraldS and stabilized with Blood Baron which bought him enough time to eventually drop and overrun me with Elspeth.
RESULT 0-2
Round 3 v. Junk BGW
Game 1: Thoughtseized 1 of the 2 Advent Wurm, played Herald, go it Decayed. He played another Advent of the Wurm, I played Eidolon of Blossoms. He followed that up with Obzedat and eventually Angel of Thune.
Game 2: Same deal.
RESULT 0-2
Round 4 v. Boros WR
Game 1: He applied early pressure with 2x Ash Zealot. Courser slowed him down a bit but he used two spells to kill it and continued his beatdown. It was close but I lost game 1.
Game 2: Sylvan Caryatid was in opening hand. Completely crushed his game. By the time he drew into Phoenix, I had Courser, Eidolon, and Doomwake Giant in play.
Game 3: Went down like Game 2. Caryatid ruined his game. He played a couple of Chained to the Rocks but I Decayed them and continued swinging for the win.
RESULT 2-1
The deck is just incredibly slow. While we're dropping 2/2 for four mana, they are playing real cards. Without ramp, or even a good early game blocker, we can forget about stabilizing or Bestowing. Our biggest natural body is Courser at 4 toughness, but with with the deck's overall weak offensive power out of the gate, it posed nearly no threat to opposing strategies, except against the aggro player in Game 4. The 3cc is cluttered, and the 4cc might as well be non-existant with the overall weak Eidolon of Blossoms which *might* net us 2-3 cards, assuming it survives that long but even then, chances are, you're still just drawing into Courser, which isn't great on turn 5, or Herald, which is nice to Bestow if your opponent hasn't already played 2x removal cards at this point.
All in all, very disappointing.
After seeing most of the list here. How is Primeval Bounty not in anyone's list? The only match up it isn't good in is aggro and this deck already bricks them with Courser.
Also Oath of the Ancient Wood is a versatile anthem within our own colors.
Even a 2 of Dark Prophecy or in the board seems good to me. With connections and prophecy on the board that is enough devotion for an active Phirak from hard to remove permanents.
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It shouldn't be that hard to cast really. You don't need a sac outlet to take advantage of it. Think of it like your 5-6th EoB. Your opponent's removal turns into a cantrip for you. Chump blocks replace themselves. Combat trades turn in your favor. It is also a good source of non-creature devotion which will keep Phirak active more often and longer. If you look at mono-blue it isn't their creatures I'm afraid of. It is bident and jace permanently turning on Thassa with hard to interact with permanents.