Took this idea from a random comment thread on CFB, and man, has it been putting up results in testing!
Basically, hand disrupt and board disrupt, prevent the opponent from attacking, and ride Athreos to victory. It's incredibly fun and effective, with lots of lifegain, card draw and stuff like that. Give it a try yourself!
I'm actually intrigued by this idea. With your testing, what cards have seemed to underperform the most or seem the least synergistic? I think a few cards could be really sweet here. If the deck is even attempting to be like a pillow fort deck, I don't know that you would want Athreos. He's really aggressive. Some cards that could be helpful would be some # of Blind Obedience, Doomwake Giant, Heliod (can trigger Constellation), and possibly some # of removal spells. Oh, and Extinguish All Hope.
So far, I'm thinking of maindecking Blood Baron and going down to 2-3 Athreos. Drawing multiples of a legendary creature is terrible, especially one that doesn't affect the board state sometimes. He is the deck's only win-con, though. Maybe it needs Herald of Torment to bestow on those maggots, coinsmiths and rams.
Also, Aegis of the Gods might be a sideboard creature. He only does anything versus Thoughtseize, Burn and some planeswalkers. Totally useless against aggro and monsters. I like some of your ideas. Extinguish could be fantastic as a one-sided boardwipe out of the board. Blind Obedience might slow some decks down, and Doomwake Giant could be a great one-of versus RW Aggro, white weenie, Master of Waves and Elspeth tokens.
Not sure I like Rest in Peace in the sideboard here - nonbo with Athreos. I'd say stick with Crypt Incursion if you're after that kind of effect.
That said, I really like the idea of the slow drain here. I'm wondering if Odunos River Trawler would have a place here. His biggest strike is he's not an enchantment, but he's potentially two additional enchantment creatures once you settle into the long game. Plays some mindgames with Athreos, too.
Grey Merchant would probably be a card I would consider just for the life gain if anything. I think some cards need trimmed though for cards like Hero's Downfall or Bile Blight. Managing to keep a high enchantment count will be the important part but some non-enchantment cards will help cover some of the short comings.
EDIT: Had a couple more ideas pop up. Sanguine Bond would be a spicy fun-of in the list with this passive life gain stuff. And can you imagine a crypt incursion with it out?
Like a lot of people, considering cutting Athreos completely. Deicide is just too good. If it just killed the current Athreos, that'd be one thing, but it exiles ALL of them AND they get to see your hand and deck.
In its place, perhaps Blood Baron or even Archangel of Thune as a finisher. Archangel even works with the ram's lifegain to give you counters during upkeep.
I'd run two athreos for protection against verdicts, but four makes him a dead card. He's a card you will almost never want multiples of in hand, because the enchantment hate you will see will more often than not be deicide.
I feel like control will either destroy this or go to time, because they can easily outheal an athreos and a few creatures swinging in by the time he gets active. They'll out dsphere/light you eventually by countering one and then it's an easy verdict/aetherling to victory.
I would add in grim guardians to give you a very legitimate secondary win con. With athreos out, verdict no longer slows you down, but adds a ton of fuel to your gameplan.
Archangel seems like a natural fit. On-curve, synergistic as heck with that sheep, and a pretty quick clock. Sounds like a strong candidate for a finisher to me.
I'm not sure you need 4 aegis of the gods, unless your meta has a lot of MBD. I would maybe mainboard 2. Gods Willing i think is needed. Also consider Duress mainboard as well. In order to beat control you need to disrupt their hand a lot. What's the opinion of Deicide showing up heavy in the meta?
Nice concept, it's nice to see an enchantment based deck that hasn't gone towards green for Eidolon style enchantress. The Orzhov lifegain/lifeloss and disruption package is nice and Sphere of Safety has a lot of power against aggro decks.
I would definitely try to make room for Blind Obedience somewhere between the main and side.
Something that might be worth testing is Plea for Guidance which despite being pretty expensive at 5W is a double tutor for everything in the deck and would allow the deck to run a silver bullet package of enchantment singletons (good options include - Erebos, Doomwake Giant, Debtor's Pulpit (great singleton which can lock down important control finishers like AEtherling and Blood Baron), Sanguine Bond, Spear of Heliod and Whip of Erebos) as well as potentially cutting important cards which you want to see but not usually in multiples down to 3 instead of 4 copies (Sphere, Connections, Athreos etc.).
Might cut Aegis of the Gods. It only really protects you from a couple of things in Standard, like burn, which has little effect on this deck anyway with all the lifegain (and you're going to be thoughtseizing away their Skullcracks).
I like Blind Obedience, or blind obedience on a stick, Imposing Sovereign, for another body.
Hmm. I'm not sure what Nyxborn Shieldmate is doing here ... there are a lot of 1-2 CMC creatures that would work better in this spot. I think I'd miss Brain Maggot too much (and he's who the deck is named after). The deck really does need thoughtseize and underworld connections, as well.
I'm liking this concept. I was thinking though, if you were to have Plea for Guidance, you could add green for a singleton Mana Bloom and other utility cards. Just a thought. I will have more for this thread when I am able to look at the rest of the enchantments available in standard.
So essentially this deck is a standard variant of 8Rack from modern.
Sphere of Safety in place of Ensnaring Bridge, Aegis in place of Leyline. I think Shrieking Affliction would be a good choice since you're already going for a hand disruption route. Maggot is good. Thoughtseize is... well, Thoughtseize.
I think both Grim Guardian and Nyx-fleece are musts for early defenses before you get Sphere online. Fate Unraveler is good because it gives you a backup plan(if they're outdrawing your discard then Unraveler kills them, if they aren't then Shrieking Affliction kills them, no way for them to dodge both bullets since they're mutually exclusive).
I definitely think Shieldmate needs to go and running more than 2 Athreos results in too many dead draws. You also need some manner of card draw engine. In M15 Waste Not would be amazing with this shell but since that's a few months off you're probably best off running Underworld Connections for the Constellation synergy.
Thinking a list something along these lines? Can board in Duress and Sin Collector vs control decks(probably in place of Thoughtsieze and Brain Maggot respectively as they won't have many creatures and they'll have removal to deal with Maggot). More rams and Unravelers against creature based decks where you don't need Athreos as much, Dark Betrayal to deal with MBD, etc.
I don't think there's quite enough discard to make Shrieking Affliction work. I think I'd want to run Archangel of Thune or Blood Baron in that spot as a backup finisher, in case you can't generate the necessary devotion or Athreos gets Deicided. Against stuff like Sphinx's Rev, you'll never win on life gain / life loss alone. And you're more likely than not to power up Blood Baron in this deck, as getting to 30 life and the oppponent to 10 is easy.
I know i'm really knew to this site and stuff and I know that I may not be up to snuf on why this hasn't been mentioned but why not use silence
It seems like it could stop the early turn hand disrupt and even the board clears if they play them. Like I said I may be flawed in my thinking here but it seems solid.
I like them wasting a removal spell on Brain Maggot to get their stuff back, cause it's a loss of tempo and they end up not having removal for your bigger creatures as a result.
Plus, you can always grab the hero's downfall with Maggot when they're tapped out. Or thoughtseize hero's downfall and maggot desecration demon...
Like a lot of people, considering cutting Athreos completely. Deicide is just too good. If it just killed the current Athreos, that'd be one thing, but it exiles ALL of them AND they get to see your hand and deck.
In its place, perhaps Blood Baron or even Archangel of Thune as a finisher. Archangel even works with the ram's lifegain to give you counters during upkeep.
I hate that they printed a card like Deicide. If it just exiled then ok, but.... and for 2 mana?!
I second Archangel in this list. I say keep Athreos too, but make the deck playable without him. They want to thin your deck like that, fine. Or something like Judge's Famliar to counter?
It's not very likely they'll be tapped out to cast a 2 mana spell The only answers i can think over are God's Willing/Brave the Elements or Cartel Aristocrat Sac Athreos before Deicide connects. yes you lose him but you still have the others.
plus if you play Odunos River Trawler you can get him back.
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Basically, hand disrupt and board disrupt, prevent the opponent from attacking, and ride Athreos to victory. It's incredibly fun and effective, with lots of lifegain, card draw and stuff like that. Give it a try yourself!
7 Plains
4 Temple of Silence
4 Godless Shrine
4 Underworld Connections
4 Banishing Light
4 Sphere of Safety
4 Brain Maggot
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Athreos, God of Passage
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
2 Rest in Peace
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Crypt Incursion
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Cool idea though.
Also, Aegis of the Gods might be a sideboard creature. He only does anything versus Thoughtseize, Burn and some planeswalkers. Totally useless against aggro and monsters. I like some of your ideas. Extinguish could be fantastic as a one-sided boardwipe out of the board. Blind Obedience might slow some decks down, and Doomwake Giant could be a great one-of versus RW Aggro, white weenie, Master of Waves and Elspeth tokens.
That said, I really like the idea of the slow drain here. I'm wondering if Odunos River Trawler would have a place here. His biggest strike is he's not an enchantment, but he's potentially two additional enchantment creatures once you settle into the long game. Plays some mindgames with Athreos, too.
Maybe -1 Sphere of Safety for +1 Blind Obedience? Drawing early multiples of Sphere is pretty miserable.
EDIT: Had a couple more ideas pop up. Sanguine Bond would be a spicy fun-of in the list with this passive life gain stuff. And can you imagine a crypt incursion with it out?
In its place, perhaps Blood Baron or even Archangel of Thune as a finisher. Archangel even works with the ram's lifegain to give you counters during upkeep.
I feel like control will either destroy this or go to time, because they can easily outheal an athreos and a few creatures swinging in by the time he gets active. They'll out dsphere/light you eventually by countering one and then it's an easy verdict/aetherling to victory.
I would add in grim guardians to give you a very legitimate secondary win con. With athreos out, verdict no longer slows you down, but adds a ton of fuel to your gameplan.
3 Fate Unraveler
2 Aegis of the gods
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 Underworld Coinsmith
4 Grim Guardian
4 Athreos, God of Passage
3 Nyxborn Shieldmate
3 Doom blade
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Sphere of Safety
2 Blind Obedience
3 Banishing Light
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
7 Plains
7 Swamp
I would definitely try to make room for Blind Obedience somewhere between the main and side.
Something that might be worth testing is Plea for Guidance which despite being pretty expensive at 5W is a double tutor for everything in the deck and would allow the deck to run a silver bullet package of enchantment singletons (good options include - Erebos, Doomwake Giant, Debtor's Pulpit (great singleton which can lock down important control finishers like AEtherling and Blood Baron), Sanguine Bond, Spear of Heliod and Whip of Erebos) as well as potentially cutting important cards which you want to see but not usually in multiples down to 3 instead of 4 copies (Sphere, Connections, Athreos etc.).
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I like Blind Obedience, or blind obedience on a stick, Imposing Sovereign, for another body.
Hmm. I'm not sure what Nyxborn Shieldmate is doing here ... there are a lot of 1-2 CMC creatures that would work better in this spot. I think I'd miss Brain Maggot too much (and he's who the deck is named after). The deck really does need thoughtseize and underworld connections, as well.
Sphere of Safety in place of Ensnaring Bridge, Aegis in place of Leyline. I think Shrieking Affliction would be a good choice since you're already going for a hand disruption route. Maggot is good. Thoughtseize is... well, Thoughtseize.
I think both Grim Guardian and Nyx-fleece are musts for early defenses before you get Sphere online. Fate Unraveler is good because it gives you a backup plan(if they're outdrawing your discard then Unraveler kills them, if they aren't then Shrieking Affliction kills them, no way for them to dodge both bullets since they're mutually exclusive).
I definitely think Shieldmate needs to go and running more than 2 Athreos results in too many dead draws. You also need some manner of card draw engine. In M15 Waste Not would be amazing with this shell but since that's a few months off you're probably best off running Underworld Connections for the Constellation synergy.
4 Grim Guardian
2 Fate Unraveler
3 Underworld Coinsmith
3 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Brain Maggot
2 Athreos, God of Passage
Spells
4 Underworld Connections
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Sphere of Safety
3 Banishing Light
4 Thoughtseize
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
7 Plains
7 Swamp
2 Fate Unraveler
1 Nyx-Fleece Ram
4 Sin Collector
4 Dark Betrayal
4 Duress
Thinking a list something along these lines? Can board in Duress and Sin Collector vs control decks(probably in place of Thoughtsieze and Brain Maggot respectively as they won't have many creatures and they'll have removal to deal with Maggot). More rams and Unravelers against creature based decks where you don't need Athreos as much, Dark Betrayal to deal with MBD, etc.
Thoughts?
It seems like it could stop the early turn hand disrupt and even the board clears if they play them. Like I said I may be flawed in my thinking here but it seems solid.
Plus, you can always grab the hero's downfall with Maggot when they're tapped out. Or thoughtseize hero's downfall and maggot desecration demon...
There are a lot of different B/W Athreos decks out there. Do you think we should try and get them consolidated into a single thread?
Nah. This one is very different than the others.
I hate that they printed a card like Deicide. If it just exiled then ok, but.... and for 2 mana?!
I second Archangel in this list. I say keep Athreos too, but make the deck playable without him. They want to thin your deck like that, fine. Or something like Judge's Famliar to counter?
plus if you play Odunos River Trawler you can get him back.