I like the sliver because of it's stacking ability, so if I had 3 out, each time they attacked, the opponent would lose 3 life.
I hadn't considered that. That is pretty good, but you'd still need 3 of them to be better than Spiteful Returned in anything other than a sliver deck. And that is just damage, not considering the Bestow of Spiteful.
Maggot is really good against MUD because of their lack of removal. It's easy to win once you have taken out their that's a or Master out of their hand, because their deck is kinda useless without it.
Yeah, but Ultimate Price, Doom Blade, Bile Blight and Hero's Downfall all kill Master of Waves, so it isn't a card I am too terribly afraid of resolving. Now Thassa, on the other hand, Brain Maggot that because once it is on the battlefield, we really have no answer unless you have Silence the Believers in the board, in which case, A+ for reading the meta.
I am putting together my list for this weekend and am thinking of driving the curve down to the point that I can run just 21 lands. 17 swamps, 4 Mutavaults. I am thinking that it is time to give Boon of Erebos a chance in the main. I am also putting Agent of the Fates back into the sideboard as I am afraid of hexproof and that card does great thing against it. Plus it combos well with aforementioned Boon. As it stands, average CMC of non-land cards is 1.79. That does not require 22 lands. More like 19 or 20, but Mutavault is half a land, so perhaps I am being a little but greedy, but the deck runs better low on mana and high on cards than the other way around. My biggest worry is that the sideboard drives the CMC up. I guess you cannot have it all.
I've been playing a version very similar to frac's list. I have Thoughtseize in the sideboard rather than the main, and I'm trying out Boon of Erebos in the past 3 FNMs and 1 SCG IQ and I'm at a solid 75% match win overall (3-1 at each of the FNMs, 4-2 at the IQ). What I like about Boon of Erebos is that all of the green midrange decks have 0/3s and 2/4s that they can play early to slow you down. Mono-blue devotion has 1/4s, etc. It functions like a 1 mana removal spell in those kinds of decks, and it lets you keep attacking. And it's also a plan to help you fight a Pack Rat player that is trying to block with Pack Rat (admittedly doesn't help if he's already winning the race).
I've had 3 matches against mono-blue and I'm happy with that matchup. Any green midrange deck I feel like I'm favored. Mono-black devotion seems okay. The big problem is U/W/x control matchups. I don't think we're fast enough to go under UW decks, and we do have some ability to be evasive or to use bestow creatures and force two removal spells. Although the problem with Bestow is if you are spending 5 mana to Bestow Herald of Torment, they can just counter that. The worst thing is the few people I've played against playing UW play Fiendslayer Paladin which... the only way I can beat that is by flying over it or using bestow to make a bigger creature. First strike is a pretty big boon to this deck in general.
I know this isn't the competitive forum, but I still feel like this is a fun deck to play, and you could actually bring it to a serious tournament if you expect it to be light on UW control.
You also lose mutavault and end up with some downgrade in spot removal. But most decks get hit way worse so eh.
The loss of Mutavaut is no biggie since the main reason we run it is so we don't lose to are opponents Mutavaults.
Nev is correct. The main reason to run mutavault is for control matchups.
And there will not be another supreme verdict in Standard for awhile. Most sweepers we see and will see are all 6cmc cost. Even if another sweeper comes out that happens to be 4cmc, it won't be uncounterable. What an overpowered card when paired with Sphinx's Rev and Detention Sphere.
You don't really care about counterable or not. We likely won't see another supreme verdict but there are things thatcould pain you like mutilate or something. Either way, there's drown in sorrow and anger of the gods, a pair of mini sweepers so close to each other. With verdict, sphere, and rev leaving, it makes me wonder if wizards is planning to give us "midrange season" for standard. Either way, you have a pretty decent position post rotation, I think.
I've been playing a version very similar to frac's list. I have Thoughtseize in the sideboard rather than the main, and I'm trying out Boon of Erebos in the past 3 FNMs and 1 SCG IQ and I'm at a solid 75% match win overall (3-1 at each of the FNMs, 4-2 at the IQ). What I like about Boon of Erebos is that all of the green midrange decks have 0/3s and 2/4s that they can play early to slow you down. Mono-blue devotion has 1/4s, etc. It functions like a 1 mana removal spell in those kinds of decks, and it lets you keep attacking. And it's also a plan to help you fight a Pack Rat player that is trying to block with Pack Rat (admittedly doesn't help if he's already winning the race).
I've had 3 matches against mono-blue and I'm happy with that matchup. Any green midrange deck I feel like I'm favored. Mono-black devotion seems okay. The big problem is U/W/x control matchups. I don't think we're fast enough to go under UW decks, and we do have some ability to be evasive or to use bestow creatures and force two removal spells. Although the problem with Bestow is if you are spending 5 mana to Bestow Herald of Torment, they can just counter that. The worst thing is the few people I've played against playing UW play Fiendslayer Paladin which... the only way I can beat that is by flying over it or using bestow to make a bigger creature. First strike is a pretty big boon to this deck in general.
I know this isn't the competitive forum, but I still feel like this is a fun deck to play, and you could actually bring it to a serious tournament if you expect it to be light on UW control.
I run 4 Thoughtseize main and 4 Duress in the sideboard and consistently beat control. So often they keep a hand based on having a Verdict and if you strip it out, it is almost a certain win. Fiendslayer is a problem, but that is when going wide and bestow are great. The one problem I have had is Elixir of Immortality which buys them time for very little investment. Time is their ally and it buys it for them. U/W control is probably the hardest of the control decks as it is the most consistent. As anyone who plays this deck knows, one stumble by your opponent is all you need.
U/W/B is pretty easy as they concentrate on spot removal which they cannot deploy as fast as this deck deploys creatures. Plus, they typically run fewer counters, making bestow more likely. Drown in Sorrow is never in the main that I have seen, so my 4x Duress usually trumps the 2x of that spell in post-board games. Blood Baron is a huge problem, but most only 2 and I have 4 Thoughtseize, so I like my odds. U/W/R is not popular enough for me to really worry about, and that is good. I would not be happy to be against a Boros Reckoner unless I had a Bile Blight in hand and Anger of the Gods is bad news too, so the less U/W/R there is, the better, IMO.
I am going to be trying Boon of Erebos this weekend for exactly the reason you mention. My biggest problem is Jund Monsters as they gum up the ground while simultaneously speed towards creatures that outclass mine. If I can destroy their ramp engine and early defense for 1CMC, I am going to be very happy.
I am posting here and not in the competitive forum mainly because even if the deck doesn't win, I will still run it. I am going to at least one SCG IQ this weekend, so I can certainly see why I should post in the other forum, but losing won't stop me from talking about this deck.
You don't really care about counterable or not. We likely won't see another supreme verdict but there are things thatcould pain you like mutilate or something. Either way, there's drown in sorrow and anger of the gods, a pair of mini sweepers so close to each other. With verdict, sphere, and rev leaving, it makes me wonder if wizards is planning to give us "midrange season" for standard. Either way, you have a pretty decent position post rotation, I think.
I am going to bet that there will be a 4CMC wrath effect. Or maybe a 5 CMC one. That new blue card that puts all creatures on top or bottom for 5 CMC looks like it could be a pain as it doesn't require white. I agree that with the number of planeswalkers, midrange decks will be the dominant force and this deck will have to adapt. Hero's Downfall may be the most valuable card in a couple of months. Also, there seems to be significant foreshadowing of artifacts being more important. Black doesn't traditionally have answer for artifacts.
If you focus on mass removals, post rotation is worse for us than pre rotation. Supreme verdict costs 4, so you can build your army in the first 2 or 3 turns and then cast a Thoughtseize. Anger of the gods and Drown in sorrow cost 3 and they can kill almost all our creatures as well, giving you one turn less. Of course, Master of the feast is a great exception. I think he will see play post rotation, but there is a big problem for him: Kiora. Kiora on Master of the feast seems a nightmare to me...
I think that bestow and particularly Nighthowler really shines against mass removals however...
Anyway, I think our deck is good right now and will be better post rotation. And most of all, I really enjoy it. It's really really fun to play with it. Post rotation many of the overpowered RTR cards will vanish forever, particularly that damned Blood baron of vizkopa, which wins alone against us.
I have never been able to get Nighthowler to work for me. Maybe my expectations are too high, but I feel like it should be a 3/3 (or +3/3 when bestowed) for it to be worth including. Maybe that isn't realistic. I can see how it is supposed to work and could be great, I just have never seen it in play out that way.
I know I am preaching to the choir, but I agree that this is such a fun deck to play. It has many options out of the sideboard so I never feel like I am out of it if I lose game 1, there are always multiple decision points in each game, and there enough configuration options to keep my interest for a long time.
So I have 1 vote for Bile Blight as the main deck 2CMC removal of choice. Anyone else?
I run 4 Thoughtseize main and 4 Duress in the sideboard and consistently beat control. So often they keep a hand based on having a Verdict and if you strip it out, it is almost a certain win.
Yeah. It's that age old issue where the issue is whether or not to run it main or sideboard. Because the extra 4 Thoughtseize means you will have to take something out for game 1. Which in theory makes the maindeck weaker. That being said... playing a turn 2 or 3 Thoughtseize and nabbing a Polukranos is about the same as if it was a removal spell or extra creature.
Edit: I vote for Bile Blight and Ultimate Price as removal. Probably Bile Blight first because it actually hits more creatures than Ultimate Price does in our deck. Courser of Kruphix? Attack + Bile Blight kills it. But it also kills Mutavault and Nightvale Specter. Bile Blight doesn't kill Desecration Demon easily though.
teamDFL, it depends on your meta for that 2cmc cost removal. Ultimate Price or Bile Blight is usually the toss up with Doom Blades in the side.
The good news is that all three are great against Mono Red, Mono Blue and White Weenie!
At this point, I think I am going with Ultimate Price. It is, in my experience, the best card in the Jund Monsters matchup (public enemy #1) while not being a dead card in the Black devotion matchup (enemy #2) like Doom Blade. I will feel bad if I lose to a Pack Rat because of not having Bile Blight, but I won't be the first or last person to go down to a swarm of rats.
I do like the fact that Bile Blight and attacking works so well together and attacking is what this deck does best. Hmm....
Of course, I could just run into hexproof and then the choice doesn't matter!
I play 2 Bile blight, 2 Hero's downfall and 2 Ultimate price mainboard and 2 Doom blade, 3 Devour flesh in the sideboard. I think this way works really good.
It does, but I want to give Boon of Erebos a try. One mana to kill their guy and save mine? Sign me up. Granted, that is the best case scenario, but I figure that it can do some work even in less ideal circumstances.
I don't run Devour Flesh. I never want to give my opponent life. Perhaps that is a mistake, but I have added 2 Agent of the Fates in the sideboard for hexproof. I hope that the heroic trigger and deathtouch are enough.
Post rotation will be bad if they don't print another 2 cmc spot removal. I'm planning on playing 4 Hero's downfall and 2 Bile blight in the mainboard and 2 in the sideboard. But i don't know. 3 mana for a spot removal is a lot in our deck. I really hope they will print something useful.
I agree. Where is Doom Blade in M15? Where is Duress? While the main deck won't change too much come rotation, there are some major pieces of the sideboard that could go out come September. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. For now, the sideboard options for this deck are amazing.
I've actually been giving Agent of the Fates a try in my build as well. Mostly it was just a filler for when I was initially missing a couple cards for the deck. But 2 of them survived to the final deck. On the positive side, he's a 3/2 body which serves as a removal spell to an extent against a lot of different decks. It swings into Caryatid, Courser, Nightvale Specter, Grey Merchant, Demon, etc. The heroic ability is okay, but the 3/2 deathtouch body is the bigger issue. On the negative side, the 2 toughness matters. It's kind of awkward if it's getting blocked by a Mutavault.
I'm thinking of cutting it completely though. Might move Lifebane to the main deck. As it is still solid against G/x and not horrible against mono blue (attacks into everything and will at the worst trade with a nightvale specter and is a jace killer against UW.
I've actually been giving Agent of the Fates a try in my build as well. Mostly it was just a filler for when I was initially missing a couple cards for the deck. But 2 of them survived to the final deck. On the positive side, he's a 3/2 body which serves as a removal spell to an extent against a lot of different decks. It swings into Caryatid, Courser, Nightvale Specter, Grey Merchant, Demon, etc. The heroic ability is okay, but the 3/2 deathtouch body is the bigger issue. On the negative side, the 2 toughness matters. It's kind of awkward if it's getting blocked by a Mutavault.
I'm thinking of cutting it completely though. Might move Lifebane to the main deck. As it is still solid against G/x and not horrible against mono blue (attacks into everything and will at the worst trade with a nightvale specter and is a jace killer against UW.
When Lifebane Zombie is good, it is great. But there are some matchups where it is really bad. I have two in the sideboard along with two Agent of the Fates. This weekend, I am going for maximum speed and keeping only 10 3CMC cards in the main deck.
I agree that M15 has not been particularly kind to us, but just think of the poor Constellations deck. There is 2 mana instant speed wrath for that entire deck. I think we are hurt more by what isn't in the set than by what is. No 2CMC conditional kill spell like Doom Blade or Ultimate Price. That hurts.
The spoiler is complete and we see a card that we did not want to see. A green instant that destroys all the enchantments at just 2 cmc. This is a really bad news for us...
So the M15 spoiler is fully out. Gotta say I am disappointed. First the take away Doom Blade and Duress. MBA got nearly zero support. All we got imo is Phyrexian Revoker which after the big rotation may find a home if the deck is still a thing. Whose bright idea was it to give green a 2 mana wrath to our Master, Herald, and Spiteful? I mean rg monsters will still be a thing and they gave them better sideboard cards and stripped us of LBZ. I am just not impressed with M15 as a whole. MBA is the deck I have been on since Born dropped. I am gonna stick around and see what it looks like after M15. But if Khans doesnt excite me I may be in for a onee year break.
I think that the kill all enchantments card is going to be a bigger problem for other decks that MBA. That said, for the MBA player, M15 is a clear downgrade from M14 and there will be some games where that card completely wrecks the MBA deck. It won't be too bad before Duress rotates out, but after that, the deck will likely take some major reformulation when facing green decks.
I still think that unless KTK is particularly kind to the deck, I will be going B/w. I still think that Athreos has potential and there is enough power in MBA to serve as a very solid aggro base to build from. Add in Banishing Light as an all purpose answer to everything, and Eidolon of Countless Battles as another great aura and the deck should be pretty solid. I also think that tempo cards like Crippling Blight and Oppressive Rays will be forced to play the role of the 2CMC kill spells that we use today. Yeah, more eggs in the enchantment basket, but the reality is that with an aggro deck an opponent's creature that cannot block is as good as dead anyway.
But enough of the future, I am going to a SuperIQ tomorrow. Wish me luck; I hope to do all the MBA players here proud.
Get in there ana kick it. Finished 3rd at my last IQ with MBA. And I agree it goes to B/W. Already worki g on gettin my caves, soldier op, and deicide.
I happened to wake up at 4:30 Eastern the day the Caves of Koilos was spoiled. Some west coast vendors hadn't changed their price on the previous printings yet and I ordered a full NM playset for $4/shipped. Sometimes you just get lucky.
I'll post up a report of the action when I get back.
What is the most shaky matchup for you guys? For me, it's mono-blue devotion. It's rare that I play it, buy tis a huge pain when you don't have any removal.
What is the most shaky matchup for you guys? For me, it's mono-blue devotion. It's rare that I play it, buy tis a huge pain when you don't have any removal.
Jund Monsters is the hardest for me. They ramp into stuff that is hard to deal with using creatures that slow me down (their tempo up, mine down in one step is terrible), they have enough removal that any major threat I get is usually dealt with and their top end is better than mine. And it gets no better after sideboard. You just have to hope they draw slow hands and you draw quick ones.
Mono-blue has always been pretty easy in my experience. They are so dependent on Master of Waves which you can Thoughtseize, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, Hero's Downfall or Bile Blight away. Every removal spell we have kills the Master. Frostburn Weird can be a PITA as it provides devotion and is hard to bypass. I have run against mono-blue splashing white for Detention Sphere and that was much harder to handle. The weakness of mono-blue is that if you land a serious threat, they have very limited ways to deal with it. The Detention Sphere addition solves that problem quite nicely for them.
I do agree that beating mono-blue depends on having removal. It is certainly a matchup that can go very badly if you don't draw a way to deal with the Master.
What is the most shaky matchup for you guys? For me, it's mono-blue devotion. It's rare that I play it, buy tis a huge pain when you don't have any removal.
I agree. Monoblue devotion is very difficult to beat!
I think that the kill all enchantments card is going to be a bigger problem for other decks that MBA. That said, for the MBA player, M15 is a clear downgrade from M14 and there will be some games where that card completely wrecks the MBA deck. It won't be too bad before Duress rotates out, but after that, the deck will likely take some major reformulation when facing green decks.
I still think that unless KTK is particularly kind to the deck, I will be going B/w. I still think that Athreos has potential and there is enough power in MBA to serve as a very solid aggro base to build from. Add in Banishing Light as an all purpose answer to everything, and Eidolon of Countless Battles as another great aura and the deck should be pretty solid. I also think that tempo cards like Crippling Blight and Oppressive Rays will be forced to play the role of the 2CMC kill spells that we use today. Yeah, more eggs in the enchantment basket, but the reality is that with an aggro deck an opponent's creature that cannot block is as good as dead anyway.
But enough of the future, I am going to a SuperIQ tomorrow. Wish me luck; I hope to do all the MBA players here proud.
Stain the Mind is great, man! At least for the sideboard... against control...
Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here. I've only been playing Magic for a few months and played a janky black midrange-ish type deck until a few weeks ago. I love the idea of mono-black aggro and put together a deck based on what I read on this forumn and what I was able to buy. This deck is alright, but I can't seem to win very often. It's not as fast or as aggressive as I'd like it to be. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I find myself up against control decks a lot and losing basically every time.
4x Spiteful Returned is key against control decks. Use the bestow ability and each one will do 4 or more damage that they cannot block. I would also cut Master of the Feast against control as giving them a faster to path to their answers is a bad plan, generally.
The bestow ability is key to beating control. Be fast and aggressive, then hit then with a second wave of bestow creatures. The damage dealt by the bestow enchantment is like giving that creature haste.
Went 4-3 at the Super IQ today. I was 4-1 and the number one ranked one loss player. I then had two games in a row where I drew 7 lands. Final match I met up with someone who had been running mono-black aggro for a couple of month and decided it was time to beat the deck instead of play it. 3 main board Anger of the Gods did me in pretty good. Still, had a lot of fun and reached the goal of finishing with a winning record. I will post up my decklist, thoughts on sideboarding and some ideas for the future tomorrow.
Great thing about this deck is that I just went 7 rounds with it and I am ready to tweak it and try again.
For the newer MBA players: If you don't have the Thoughtseizes DO NOT maindeck the Duress. You may think it's a budget version but it is not. In the side is where it belongs, only to see play against control and burn.
Don't skimp on good creatures. ShredFreaks are a poor substitute for other two drops.
Hall of Triumph is not needed. However, if you NEED to run it, run 1 only.
Mono Blue is one of our best match ups. Doom Blade, Bile Blight, Downfall and Ultimate Price should all be in your 75.
What is the most shaky matchup for you guys? For me, it's mono-blue devotion. It's rare that I play it, buy tis a huge pain when you don't have any removal.
Jund Monsters is the hardest for me. They ramp into stuff that is hard to deal with using creatures that slow me down (their tempo up, mine down in one step is terrible), they have enough removal that any major threat I get is usually dealt with and their top end is better than mine. And it gets no better after sideboard. You just have to hope they draw slow hands and you draw quick ones.
Mono-blue has always been pretty easy in my experience. They are so dependent on Master of Waves which you can Thoughtseize, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, Hero's Downfall or Bile Blight away. Every removal spell we have kills the Master. Frostburn Weird can be a PITA as it provides devotion and is hard to bypass. I have run against mono-blue splashing white for Detention Sphere and that was much harder to handle. The weakness of mono-blue is that if you land a serious threat, they have very limited ways to deal with it. The Detention Sphere addition solves that problem quite nicely for them.
I do agree that beating mono-blue depends on having removal. It is certainly a matchup that can go very badly if you don't draw a way to deal with the Master.
It's weird... because my list plays Thrill Kill Assassin, 2 Agents (for now) and 3 Boon of Erebos main and like 6 removal spells. Then Thoughtseize in the side. And mono blue seems like an even matchup for me. Obviously if they go first and curve out then we just lose, but generally they don't and even going first they tend to be on the defensive. I think that's where the removal spells (if we count Boon as a removal spell) and death touch creatures come into play. You can swing your 2/3 death touch into their Nightvale Specters profitably.
And the same with Jund Monsters. I don't think I've lost a match to that deck so far. And it's for the same reason. Trading a 1B death touch creature for their 2GG Polukranos is a net gain in tempo. If you mass up creatures and then drop the Mogis hammer on them, that's usually the end of the game.
But the trade off is against UW and Mono black devotion. Fortunately with mono-black game 1 you can over-extend and really Bile Blight is the only thing to worry about. Game 2-3 I've gotten burned by Drown In Sorrow my fair share of times. So you do somewhat have to play it slow, but then thats where Pack Rat can single handedly win games. And with UW I've mentioned the point that some people are moving toward Fiendslayer Paladin in the sideboard, that card is very difficult to beat. Even without that, I think we're still looking at 50/50 because we're slower than mono-red. And if you are playing Pain Seer (or something else) instead of Thrill Kill, and Thoughtseize main instead of Boon of Erebos or more removal, that gives you a better matchup... but again you sacrifice your matchup to mono blue and monsters.
It's weird how the difference in your Jund Monsters matchup can go from awesome to flaky just by switching out 6-7 cards main deck.
Main? Bile Blight.
I've had 3 matches against mono-blue and I'm happy with that matchup. Any green midrange deck I feel like I'm favored. Mono-black devotion seems okay. The big problem is U/W/x control matchups. I don't think we're fast enough to go under UW decks, and we do have some ability to be evasive or to use bestow creatures and force two removal spells. Although the problem with Bestow is if you are spending 5 mana to Bestow Herald of Torment, they can just counter that. The worst thing is the few people I've played against playing UW play Fiendslayer Paladin which... the only way I can beat that is by flying over it or using bestow to make a bigger creature. First strike is a pretty big boon to this deck in general.
I know this isn't the competitive forum, but I still feel like this is a fun deck to play, and you could actually bring it to a serious tournament if you expect it to be light on UW control.
You don't really care about counterable or not. We likely won't see another supreme verdict but there are things thatcould pain you like mutilate or something. Either way, there's drown in sorrow and anger of the gods, a pair of mini sweepers so close to each other. With verdict, sphere, and rev leaving, it makes me wonder if wizards is planning to give us "midrange season" for standard. Either way, you have a pretty decent position post rotation, I think.
I run 4 Thoughtseize main and 4 Duress in the sideboard and consistently beat control. So often they keep a hand based on having a Verdict and if you strip it out, it is almost a certain win. Fiendslayer is a problem, but that is when going wide and bestow are great. The one problem I have had is Elixir of Immortality which buys them time for very little investment. Time is their ally and it buys it for them. U/W control is probably the hardest of the control decks as it is the most consistent. As anyone who plays this deck knows, one stumble by your opponent is all you need.
U/W/B is pretty easy as they concentrate on spot removal which they cannot deploy as fast as this deck deploys creatures. Plus, they typically run fewer counters, making bestow more likely. Drown in Sorrow is never in the main that I have seen, so my 4x Duress usually trumps the 2x of that spell in post-board games. Blood Baron is a huge problem, but most only 2 and I have 4 Thoughtseize, so I like my odds. U/W/R is not popular enough for me to really worry about, and that is good. I would not be happy to be against a Boros Reckoner unless I had a Bile Blight in hand and Anger of the Gods is bad news too, so the less U/W/R there is, the better, IMO.
I am going to be trying Boon of Erebos this weekend for exactly the reason you mention. My biggest problem is Jund Monsters as they gum up the ground while simultaneously speed towards creatures that outclass mine. If I can destroy their ramp engine and early defense for 1CMC, I am going to be very happy.
I am posting here and not in the competitive forum mainly because even if the deck doesn't win, I will still run it. I am going to at least one SCG IQ this weekend, so I can certainly see why I should post in the other forum, but losing won't stop me from talking about this deck.
I am going to bet that there will be a 4CMC wrath effect. Or maybe a 5 CMC one. That new blue card that puts all creatures on top or bottom for 5 CMC looks like it could be a pain as it doesn't require white. I agree that with the number of planeswalkers, midrange decks will be the dominant force and this deck will have to adapt. Hero's Downfall may be the most valuable card in a couple of months. Also, there seems to be significant foreshadowing of artifacts being more important. Black doesn't traditionally have answer for artifacts.
I have never been able to get Nighthowler to work for me. Maybe my expectations are too high, but I feel like it should be a 3/3 (or +3/3 when bestowed) for it to be worth including. Maybe that isn't realistic. I can see how it is supposed to work and could be great, I just have never seen it in play out that way.
I know I am preaching to the choir, but I agree that this is such a fun deck to play. It has many options out of the sideboard so I never feel like I am out of it if I lose game 1, there are always multiple decision points in each game, and there enough configuration options to keep my interest for a long time.
So I have 1 vote for Bile Blight as the main deck 2CMC removal of choice. Anyone else?
Yeah. It's that age old issue where the issue is whether or not to run it main or sideboard. Because the extra 4 Thoughtseize means you will have to take something out for game 1. Which in theory makes the maindeck weaker. That being said... playing a turn 2 or 3 Thoughtseize and nabbing a Polukranos is about the same as if it was a removal spell or extra creature.
Edit: I vote for Bile Blight and Ultimate Price as removal. Probably Bile Blight first because it actually hits more creatures than Ultimate Price does in our deck. Courser of Kruphix? Attack + Bile Blight kills it. But it also kills Mutavault and Nightvale Specter. Bile Blight doesn't kill Desecration Demon easily though.
The good news is that all three are great against Mono Red, Mono Blue and White Weenie!
At this point, I think I am going with Ultimate Price. It is, in my experience, the best card in the Jund Monsters matchup (public enemy #1) while not being a dead card in the Black devotion matchup (enemy #2) like Doom Blade. I will feel bad if I lose to a Pack Rat because of not having Bile Blight, but I won't be the first or last person to go down to a swarm of rats.
I do like the fact that Bile Blight and attacking works so well together and attacking is what this deck does best. Hmm....
Of course, I could just run into hexproof and then the choice doesn't matter!
It does, but I want to give Boon of Erebos a try. One mana to kill their guy and save mine? Sign me up. Granted, that is the best case scenario, but I figure that it can do some work even in less ideal circumstances.
I don't run Devour Flesh. I never want to give my opponent life. Perhaps that is a mistake, but I have added 2 Agent of the Fates in the sideboard for hexproof. I hope that the heroic trigger and deathtouch are enough.
I agree. Where is Doom Blade in M15? Where is Duress? While the main deck won't change too much come rotation, there are some major pieces of the sideboard that could go out come September. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. For now, the sideboard options for this deck are amazing.
I'm thinking of cutting it completely though. Might move Lifebane to the main deck. As it is still solid against G/x and not horrible against mono blue (attacks into everything and will at the worst trade with a nightvale specter and is a jace killer against UW.
When Lifebane Zombie is good, it is great. But there are some matchups where it is really bad. I have two in the sideboard along with two Agent of the Fates. This weekend, I am going for maximum speed and keeping only 10 3CMC cards in the main deck.
I agree that M15 has not been particularly kind to us, but just think of the poor Constellations deck. There is 2 mana instant speed wrath for that entire deck. I think we are hurt more by what isn't in the set than by what is. No 2CMC conditional kill spell like Doom Blade or Ultimate Price. That hurts.
I still think that unless KTK is particularly kind to the deck, I will be going B/w. I still think that Athreos has potential and there is enough power in MBA to serve as a very solid aggro base to build from. Add in Banishing Light as an all purpose answer to everything, and Eidolon of Countless Battles as another great aura and the deck should be pretty solid. I also think that tempo cards like Crippling Blight and Oppressive Rays will be forced to play the role of the 2CMC kill spells that we use today. Yeah, more eggs in the enchantment basket, but the reality is that with an aggro deck an opponent's creature that cannot block is as good as dead anyway.
But enough of the future, I am going to a SuperIQ tomorrow. Wish me luck; I hope to do all the MBA players here proud.
I'll post up a report of the action when I get back.
Jund Monsters is the hardest for me. They ramp into stuff that is hard to deal with using creatures that slow me down (their tempo up, mine down in one step is terrible), they have enough removal that any major threat I get is usually dealt with and their top end is better than mine. And it gets no better after sideboard. You just have to hope they draw slow hands and you draw quick ones.
Mono-blue has always been pretty easy in my experience. They are so dependent on Master of Waves which you can Thoughtseize, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, Hero's Downfall or Bile Blight away. Every removal spell we have kills the Master. Frostburn Weird can be a PITA as it provides devotion and is hard to bypass. I have run against mono-blue splashing white for Detention Sphere and that was much harder to handle. The weakness of mono-blue is that if you land a serious threat, they have very limited ways to deal with it. The Detention Sphere addition solves that problem quite nicely for them.
I do agree that beating mono-blue depends on having removal. It is certainly a matchup that can go very badly if you don't draw a way to deal with the Master.
I agree. Monoblue devotion is very difficult to beat!
Stain the Mind is great, man! At least for the sideboard... against control...
4x Gnarled Scarhide
4x Pain Seer
4x Tormented Hero
4x Mogis's Marauder
4x Herald of Torment
3x Master of the Feast
2x Rakdos Cackler
2x Rakdos Shred-Freak
1x Spiteful Returned
1x Hall of Triumph
3x Hero's Downfall
1x Duress
2x Bile Blight
3x Thoughtseize
Lands
3x Mutavault
19x Swamp
2x Lifebane Zombie
2x Ultimate Price
1x Hero's Downfall
3x Duress
1x Whip of Erebos
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Dark Betrayal
2x Doom Blade
Hi, long time lurker, first time poster here. I've only been playing Magic for a few months and played a janky black midrange-ish type deck until a few weeks ago. I love the idea of mono-black aggro and put together a deck based on what I read on this forumn and what I was able to buy. This deck is alright, but I can't seem to win very often. It's not as fast or as aggressive as I'd like it to be. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I find myself up against control decks a lot and losing basically every time.
The bestow ability is key to beating control. Be fast and aggressive, then hit then with a second wave of bestow creatures. The damage dealt by the bestow enchantment is like giving that creature haste.
Went 4-3 at the Super IQ today. I was 4-1 and the number one ranked one loss player. I then had two games in a row where I drew 7 lands. Final match I met up with someone who had been running mono-black aggro for a couple of month and decided it was time to beat the deck instead of play it. 3 main board Anger of the Gods did me in pretty good. Still, had a lot of fun and reached the goal of finishing with a winning record. I will post up my decklist, thoughts on sideboarding and some ideas for the future tomorrow.
Great thing about this deck is that I just went 7 rounds with it and I am ready to tweak it and try again.
Lands (22)
- 22 Swamps
Creatures (28)
- 4 Gnarled Scarhide
- 4 Tormented Hero
- 2 Rakdos Cackler
- 4 Spiteful Returned
- 3 Pain Seer
- 4 Herald of Torment
- 3 Master of the Feast
- 4 Mogis's Marauder
Spells (10)
- 1 Thoughtseize
- 3 Duress
- 2 Hero's Downfall
- 2 Bile Blight
- 2 Ultimate Price
Sideboard:
- 2 Whip of Erebos
- 2 Dark Betrayal
- 3 Brain Maggot
- 2 Doom Blade
- 3 Thrill Kill Assassin
- 2 Hero's Downfall
- 2 Hall of Triumph
I do not have 3 more thoughtseize so my question is, should I keep the duress or run
3 brain maggot main board instead. Any other suggestions?
Don't skimp on good creatures. ShredFreaks are a poor substitute for other two drops.
Hall of Triumph is not needed. However, if you NEED to run it, run 1 only.
Mono Blue is one of our best match ups. Doom Blade, Bile Blight, Downfall and Ultimate Price should all be in your 75.
It's weird... because my list plays Thrill Kill Assassin, 2 Agents (for now) and 3 Boon of Erebos main and like 6 removal spells. Then Thoughtseize in the side. And mono blue seems like an even matchup for me. Obviously if they go first and curve out then we just lose, but generally they don't and even going first they tend to be on the defensive. I think that's where the removal spells (if we count Boon as a removal spell) and death touch creatures come into play. You can swing your 2/3 death touch into their Nightvale Specters profitably.
And the same with Jund Monsters. I don't think I've lost a match to that deck so far. And it's for the same reason. Trading a 1B death touch creature for their 2GG Polukranos is a net gain in tempo. If you mass up creatures and then drop the Mogis hammer on them, that's usually the end of the game.
But the trade off is against UW and Mono black devotion. Fortunately with mono-black game 1 you can over-extend and really Bile Blight is the only thing to worry about. Game 2-3 I've gotten burned by Drown In Sorrow my fair share of times. So you do somewhat have to play it slow, but then thats where Pack Rat can single handedly win games. And with UW I've mentioned the point that some people are moving toward Fiendslayer Paladin in the sideboard, that card is very difficult to beat. Even without that, I think we're still looking at 50/50 because we're slower than mono-red. And if you are playing Pain Seer (or something else) instead of Thrill Kill, and Thoughtseize main instead of Boon of Erebos or more removal, that gives you a better matchup... but again you sacrifice your matchup to mono blue and monsters.
It's weird how the difference in your Jund Monsters matchup can go from awesome to flaky just by switching out 6-7 cards main deck.