Hey folks, long time lurker first time poster here. I've decided to create fringe decks and start testing them at my local game store on Thursday and/or Friday Night Magic, then post the results here to fine tune what the deck is all about and how it did against X. My main goal here is to be competitive. I'm not looking to win a GP or anything, but after rotation.. who knows? I'm simply sick of facing and seeing MBD, MUD, G/R, Esper control and U/W control. So, without further adieu...
If this deck is competitive, I have no problem adding more upgrades/cards such as two more Thoughtseize and two more Hero's Downfall. Feel free to discuss. I'll post my first results after tonight's games.
Game 1 2-0 Against G/W variant
Kid got stuck on one land for a few turns, then strung together a few Defend the Hearth which prolonged the match. Got a Fleecemane Lion down but it was too late. Won in 7.
Second match he played more Defends, but the Heroes, the Cacklers and a non-bestowed Herald were enough to put him away in 7 again.
Game 2 2-1 Against a W/B kind of humans variant.
Opponent drew a perfect curve of Soldier of the Pantheon, Imposing Sovereign, and Spear of Heliod along with some kill spells, I couldn't keep up.
Match 2 I won in 5. Spiteful Returneds were king here.
Match 3 opponent scooped turn 6 do to a bestowed Herald of Torment on curve. He had no answer.
Game 3 2-1 Against G/R monster with splash of black for Dreadbore and Ultimate Price
Won in 5. Downfalled his Polukranos, World Eater and he had no recovery.
Lost in 7 or 8. He was able to get some fatty down to block my babies, and Mizzium Mortars my early threats.
Won in 7 or so. Ended with 21 life. I was able to avoid his blockers with haste/intimidate while chumping when needed with dummies.
Game 4 0-2 Against White aggro with red splash for Boros Charm.
Game 1 I took him down to 1 life before he lethaled me by dropping a Spear of Heliod and hitting me for 8. I gambled. I lost.
Game 2 I had him to 8 in the 5th round before he was able to swing for lethal. Back to back Charms tapped me out and protected his biggest threat. Twice.
Overall I was pleasantly surprised to finish 3-1. I ended up coming in 4th for the night because the mono white player drew the game previous, so two players finished one point in front of me. Desecration Demon did nothing for me. I saw him once in four games and ended up always siding him out for more kill. Spiteful Returned and Herald of Torment are the real deal. Even the Pain Seers did work one game for me, drawing clutch kill spells when needed the most. I only lost 3 life once, due to drawing a Mogis's Marauder which I threw down to win one match. I picked up some Blood Scrivener to try in place of the Seers.
Game 1 Mono Black Devotion 2-1
This was the matchup I dreaded. This match opponent got the Pack Rat going and then a Desecration Demon and I had no answers. Intimidate is useless, and my weenies couldn't get by the 3/3 rats or 6/6 demon when I needed them to.
Match two I subbed out the Marauders for the four Dark Betrayals and the Doom Blades for the extra Ultimate Price and two Blood Scrivener. MUCH BETTER. I was able to kill all his Rats, Specters and Demons and slowly picked away at him for 2 or 4 per attack. The Scrivener pulled it's weight with draws where needed!
Match three I crushed him. Same as before. Thoughtseized me for 2 turn one, and another 2 on turn two. Pain Seer did the work pulling what I needed and finished him off four turns later.
Game 2 Mono Blue Devotion 2-0
Oh man, went MUCH better than I thought. Haste and intimidate absolutely ruined him. The only hiccup I had was when he had a Frostburn Weird down to slow me down a few turns, even with intimidate.
Game 3 G/R Monsters 1-2
Match 1 he drew three lands all match. Turn six win.
Match 2 he sided in his Mizzium Mortars AND Shock?! Wasn't ready for that and lost because I couldn't get past a Courser of Kruphix, then a Polukranos, then a Stormbreath Dragon.
Match 3 I was able to get him to 2 life before back to back Dragon's for 8 damage and lethaled me. BLEGH.
Game 4 Mono Black Devotion, again. 2-0
Match 1 he badly misplayed by attacking with 2/2 rats which I let him hit me with. I didn't need intimidate because of all his land draws and promptly finished him off after he kept chumping with rats and his Mutavault.
Match 2 I sided in with what I did earlier in Game 1. He got swamped with swamps, and I was able to play around a Demon he had on the board. It was slower going but I got there thanks to my kill spell package, and his self-pinging for 1 to keep drawing land and Doom Blades. I really had no fear of being Thoughtseized.
Overall I still finished 3-1 again but I felt like this deck flowed MUCH better than the previous one from Thursday night. Spiteful Returned and Herald of Torment
are real finishers that tough to deal with for many decks, especially if bestowed.
On Tuesdays in our local game store we have what we call "Janky Standard". Main deck has to be valued at $20 or under, and the sideboard has to be $5 or under. Last Tuesday I went 4-0 with a modified list (no Seers or Downfalls). I'll post the list this Tuesday with more reports.
I'd love to see other players trying the deck and their thoughts!
Solid list. If you haven't yet, check out the SCG coverage on twitch from this weekend. A monoblack aggro deck was piloted to top8, and played a few feature matches on camera. It's a really strong deck.
I think he is running shred-freak over spike jester because you can pay BB for the freak, while you HAVE tom pay BR for jester, and splashing red on a mono-b devotion deck is pointless, especially for only a 1 power increase.
Honestly, I think you should replace Herald of torment with Liliana's reaver, because the reaver is like the demon, and has to be answered to when it enters the battlefield.
I went 3-1 only losing to a.. SURPRISE! A mirror match! He did not use Shred-Freaks or Seers, but he had four Thoughtseize main boarded. Not sure what else he ran, 0-2. Very fast very close games.
Game 2 2-0 against some sort of B/R/G deck that ran Reapers and Xenagoses (God and Planewalkers). I crushed him. He was more mid-rangey and I was looking to win by turn 6. I did.
Game 3 2-0 G/R monsterish deck? I only saw an elf, a Courser, and a Caryatid I played around. Same with the second game except I saw a Polukranos. Too fast for him. Too furious.
Game 4 2-1 against a B/R non haste deck. It did have a Spike Jester and Stormbreath Dragon. Third game came down to me having three life and grabbing a hastey creature to swing for lethal after killing his Chandra's Phoenix.
@mw3forum I'm mono black. I have no red source for Spike Jester. However, if I did splash red, he'd be included.
@JacketBoi No. Never. The Reaver is.. meh and way too slow. The Herald is the BEST card in my deck, and one of the best black cards in standard (in my opinion) right now. Speed kills my friend, especially speed with options.
@BigKev34Pack Rat is too slow for what I want to do. The Rat works great in the mono black devotion deck, not so much with me. Spiteful Returned is arguably the second card in my deck that pulls this all together. Amazing crazy value.
And for those of you who are curious about the $20 version of this deck that I run in the "Janky Standard Tournament" version..
Im going to give it a roll tonight. Im contemplating playing Mono black aggro at GP cincy this weekend and Im trying to shore it up. The only difference to your deck than mine is I run 3 Mogis Marauder in place of Thrill Kill, I run the set of Thoughtseize, full set of Downfall, and a 3x Price 2x Bile Blight ratio. Along with 4 Mutavaults for a total of 22 land. I took it and won Gameday a couple weeks ago. It will be my first GP so I would like to do everything I can to do well. Either MonoBlack Aggro or RW Burn. Undecided at this point.
Thoughtseize main board scares me. I don't want to take the damage, especially since I already run Seer, Herald and Scrivener. I'd keep 4x Mogis Marauders. If I had another Mutavault, I'd play that and nineteen swamps. Other than that, good luck! Do us Blackgro players proud!
Holy crap, I can't believe someone suggested you take out Herald LOL. That guy is so awesome in this deck that I routinely break my poker face when I draw him.
Here's the decklist for Jackson Knorr's monoblack aggro. It's definitely on a different plan than your build, but worth looking at. It was really well lined up against the field that day- which was TONS of G/R/x monsters, and an assortment of Monoblack and U/W/x builds.. along with random new junk like RW burn and BW humans.
Definetly wanna see the videos on how he plays what in each situation. Not sure I care for Bile Blight against GR or GRB Monsters. I would much prefer to drop to 2 Blight, drop a swamp, and up the count to 3 Ultimate Price. I also think 24 lands are to much when you curve out at 3. I play 22 and find myself flooding with 8 more times than not. And Lifebane should be a 4 of imo.
Finished 3-1 in the janky tournament last night. Good for third and guess what the prize was.. 4x Pain Seer, LOL.
24 land is way too much. Bile Blight works on half the decks that see standard top play, so I'll keep it main. If I had 4x Lifebane Zombies, I would definitely include it in my side. Actually, that may help fix my problem I have versus control. Where is his Spiteful Returned?! That card stirs this drink along with the Herald.
He plays the extra lands because his deck runs slightly slower, and actually plans on bestowing heralds in the mid-game. Like, he would run along his curve ignoring the heralds as a 3cc drop and use them to go over the top to finish people off. Which isn't uncommon, but that was often his plan against various decks, rather than a situational happenstance. He also plays really aggressively with mutavaults. He treats them as a 1cc 2/2s with echo, which effectively ties up two lands a turn in most situations. He also aims to get on the pack rat plan more often than not, and his extra lands help ease that transition. I gotta say, the deck ran like butter the whole time I was watching. People like to think times have changed, but t1 thoughtseize, t2 pack rat was still game over for a few guys.
I like both versions of the deck, not sure which I'd rather play.
I was roughed up by two Selesnya decks. One was aggro and one was token based around populate. Neither went well for me. Also, I keep coming up really close to G/R and Jund monsters. Lifebane zombie is there to help me even the odds.
I was roughed up by two Selesnya decks. One was aggro and one was token based around populate. Neither went well for me. Also, I keep coming up really close to G/R and Jund monsters. Lifebane zombie is there to help me even the odds.
Tomorrow night we'll see how it goes.
Can you explain to me why you are running tormented hero with no spells that target creatures you control?
I would either cut spiteful returned or thrill kill assassin and play some amount of lifebanes mainboard if your gw and gr matchups are close or unfavorable. If you haven't faced any UW/X control variants yet, I would highly advise you to be prepared for those as mutavaults and some number of erebos, god of the dead will be invaluable there. Playing lifebane main will open up sideboard slots for duress, which will further improve any control matchup.
No, I will never cut Spiteful Returned simply because:
A. I need a two drop and
B. It's a very workable card.
The reason why Tormented Hero is in the deck is exactly what was said above me, it's a 2 power one drop. Same with the Cackler.
To be fair, aside from that one night of Selesnya hell, I haven't had a problem with Green, White or G/R monsters, hence the sideboard. I'd love to main board them sure, but I'm not sacrificing any of my three drops, and having 12 three drops in an aggro deck is.. meh in my opinion.
I mean, to be honest I love the discussion going on, but I'm looking to overhaul this deck. I know what I want to cut and what I don't. I know what I want to tweak, and what cards I have that will work with what I can afford. My main reason for starting this was for others to try their variations and talk about what works for them. Advising me to cut a card from my 75 that has won me games time and time again, that makes opponents groan when it hits to me, is a good card.
I enjoy going 3-1 almost every night I play. I really can't be too greedy and ask for more. I've never finished with less than 2 wins. If it keeps up this consistency, I will bring it to a local GP, which a variation of it just won a big event here in CT a couple of weeks ago.
I play a list close to this one. It's true that Spiteful Return is a very strong 2-drop in this deck, far better than the assassin. And as you said, it is capable of strong result (3-1 and 2-2 last week for me). I appreciate how the deck have a late game, contrary to some very fast aggro and answers like weenie white.
Correct! I like it because it can stick around that 2-3 extra rounds that a white or a red aggro deck can't. With the Pain Seer, there's even limited card draw which is also something that agro decks generally do not have access to.
Just wondering, how is your match up vs r/w burn. Went 3-1 today, beat mono blue twice and esper once but lost to r/w burn 0-2 in the final round. It was the first time I played against it with this deck. I sided in 2 duress, 2 gift of orzovah but never drew either. I didn't draw very well overall that match. All and all the deck seemed pretty solid and was very consistent. I was able to curve out perfectly the first 3 matches and never looked back.
I agree, I very much like the deck as well. I believe Gnarled Scarhide will be a welcomed addition. Just not sure what will get cut in it's place. As far as Lifebane Zombie it is a necessity in my meta. I ran 3 in the sb but decided to mb them because I was bringing them in every match. I agree 12 3cc can be brutal. I've seen some list cut maurauder to 2 or even 1. I don't think I'm wiiling to take that route.
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4 Tormented Hero
4 Rakdos Shred-Freak
3 Pain Seer
3 Thrill-Kill Assassin
4 Spiteful Returned
4 Mogis's Marauder
4 Herald of Torment
2 Desecration Demon
2 Ultimate Price
2 Hero's Downfall
22 Swamp
2 Desecration Demon
2 Thought Seize
2 Duress
1 Pain Seer
4 Dark Betrayal
2 Ultimate Price
2 Doom Blade
If this deck is competitive, I have no problem adding more upgrades/cards such as two more Thoughtseize and two more Hero's Downfall. Feel free to discuss. I'll post my first results after tonight's games.
Game 1 2-0 Against G/W variant
Kid got stuck on one land for a few turns, then strung together a few Defend the Hearth which prolonged the match. Got a Fleecemane Lion down but it was too late. Won in 7.
Second match he played more Defends, but the Heroes, the Cacklers and a non-bestowed Herald were enough to put him away in 7 again.
Game 2 2-1 Against a W/B kind of humans variant.
Opponent drew a perfect curve of Soldier of the Pantheon, Imposing Sovereign, and Spear of Heliod along with some kill spells, I couldn't keep up.
Match 2 I won in 5. Spiteful Returneds were king here.
Match 3 opponent scooped turn 6 do to a bestowed Herald of Torment on curve. He had no answer.
Game 3 2-1 Against G/R monster with splash of black for Dreadbore and Ultimate Price
Won in 5. Downfalled his Polukranos, World Eater and he had no recovery.
Lost in 7 or 8. He was able to get some fatty down to block my babies, and Mizzium Mortars my early threats.
Won in 7 or so. Ended with 21 life. I was able to avoid his blockers with haste/intimidate while chumping when needed with dummies.
Game 4 0-2 Against White aggro with red splash for Boros Charm.
Game 1 I took him down to 1 life before he lethaled me by dropping a Spear of Heliod and hitting me for 8. I gambled. I lost.
Game 2 I had him to 8 in the 5th round before he was able to swing for lethal. Back to back Charms tapped me out and protected his biggest threat. Twice.
Overall I was pleasantly surprised to finish 3-1. I ended up coming in 4th for the night because the mono white player drew the game previous, so two players finished one point in front of me.
Desecration Demon did nothing for me. I saw him once in four games and ended up always siding him out for more kill.
Spiteful Returned and Herald of Torment are the real deal. Even the Pain Seers did work one game for me, drawing clutch kill spells when needed the most. I only lost 3 life once, due to drawing a Mogis's Marauder which I threw down to win one match. I picked up some Blood Scrivener to try in place of the Seers.
Until next time.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I've decided to change my deck up slightly based on the lack of draw and the play around of the Demon.
4x Tormented Hero
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Rakdos Shred-Freak
3x Pain Seer
3x Thrill-Kill Assassin
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Mogi's Marauder
4x Herald of Torment
3x Doom Blade
3x Ultimate Price
2x Hero's Downfall
Land
1x Mutavault
21x Swamp
2x Thoughtseize
2x Duress
4x Dark Betrayal
4x Blood Scrivener
1x Ultimate Price
1x Doom Blade
1x Pain Seer
And now the results from last night's FNM:
Game 1 Mono Black Devotion 2-1
This was the matchup I dreaded. This match opponent got the Pack Rat going and then a Desecration Demon and I had no answers. Intimidate is useless, and my weenies couldn't get by the 3/3 rats or 6/6 demon when I needed them to.
Match two I subbed out the Marauders for the four Dark Betrayals and the Doom Blades for the extra Ultimate Price and two Blood Scrivener. MUCH BETTER. I was able to kill all his Rats, Specters and Demons and slowly picked away at him for 2 or 4 per attack. The Scrivener pulled it's weight with draws where needed!
Match three I crushed him. Same as before. Thoughtseized me for 2 turn one, and another 2 on turn two. Pain Seer did the work pulling what I needed and finished him off four turns later.
Game 2 Mono Blue Devotion 2-0
Oh man, went MUCH better than I thought. Haste and intimidate absolutely ruined him. The only hiccup I had was when he had a Frostburn Weird down to slow me down a few turns, even with intimidate.
Game 3 G/R Monsters 1-2
Match 1 he drew three lands all match. Turn six win.
Match 2 he sided in his Mizzium Mortars AND Shock?! Wasn't ready for that and lost because I couldn't get past a Courser of Kruphix, then a Polukranos, then a Stormbreath Dragon.
Match 3 I was able to get him to 2 life before back to back Dragon's for 8 damage and lethaled me. BLEGH.
Game 4 Mono Black Devotion, again. 2-0
Match 1 he badly misplayed by attacking with 2/2 rats which I let him hit me with. I didn't need intimidate because of all his land draws and promptly finished him off after he kept chumping with rats and his Mutavault.
Match 2 I sided in with what I did earlier in Game 1. He got swamped with swamps, and I was able to play around a Demon he had on the board. It was slower going but I got there thanks to my kill spell package, and his self-pinging for 1 to keep drawing land and Doom Blades. I really had no fear of being Thoughtseized.
Overall I still finished 3-1 again but I felt like this deck flowed MUCH better than the previous one from Thursday night. Spiteful Returned and Herald of Torment
are real finishers that tough to deal with for many decks, especially if bestowed.
On Tuesdays in our local game store we have what we call "Janky Standard". Main deck has to be valued at $20 or under, and the sideboard has to be $5 or under. Last Tuesday I went 4-0 with a modified list (no Seers or Downfalls). I'll post the list this Tuesday with more reports.
I'd love to see other players trying the deck and their thoughts!
Solid list. If you haven't yet, check out the SCG coverage on twitch from this weekend. A monoblack aggro deck was piloted to top8, and played a few feature matches on camera. It's a really strong deck.
Here's what I ran:
4x Tormented Hero
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Rakdos Shred-Freak
3x Pain Seer
3x Thrill-Kill Assassin
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Mogi's Marauder
4x Herald of Torment
3x Bile Blight
3x Ultimate Price
3x Hero's Downfall
Land
1x Mutavault
20x Swamp
3x Devour Flesh
3x Dark Betrayal
3x Blood Scrivener
3x Drown in Sorrow
3x Doom Blade
I went 3-1 only losing to a.. SURPRISE! A mirror match! He did not use Shred-Freaks or Seers, but he had four Thoughtseize main boarded. Not sure what else he ran, 0-2. Very fast very close games.
Game 2 2-0 against some sort of B/R/G deck that ran Reapers and Xenagoses (God and Planewalkers). I crushed him. He was more mid-rangey and I was looking to win by turn 6. I did.
Game 3 2-0 G/R monsterish deck? I only saw an elf, a Courser, and a Caryatid I played around. Same with the second game except I saw a Polukranos. Too fast for him. Too furious.
Game 4 2-1 against a B/R non haste deck. It did have a Spike Jester and Stormbreath Dragon. Third game came down to me having three life and grabbing a hastey creature to swing for lethal after killing his Chandra's Phoenix.
@mw3forum I'm mono black. I have no red source for Spike Jester. However, if I did splash red, he'd be included.
@JacketBoi No. Never. The Reaver is.. meh and way too slow. The Herald is the BEST card in my deck, and one of the best black cards in standard (in my opinion) right now. Speed kills my friend, especially speed with options.
And for those of you who are curious about the $20 version of this deck that I run in the "Janky Standard Tournament" version..
4x Tormented Hero
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Shadow Alley Denizen
4x Thrill Kill Assassin
4x Rakdos Shred-Freak
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Herald of Torment
4x Mogis' Marauder
4x Doom Blade
4x Ultimate Price
Lands
20x Swamp
4x Dark Betrayal
4x Duress
4x Devour Flesh
Not sure what to throw three of in the side. The total side has to be $5 or below.
Here's the decklist for Jackson Knorr's monoblack aggro. It's definitely on a different plan than your build, but worth looking at. It was really well lined up against the field that day- which was TONS of G/R/x monsters, and an assortment of Monoblack and U/W/x builds.. along with random new junk like RW burn and BW humans.
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Mogis's Marauder
4 Pack Rat
3 Pain Seer
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Tormented Hero
4 Herald of Torment
3 Bile Blight
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Ultimate Price
4 Thoughtseize
Lands (24)
20 Swamp
4 Mutavault
2 Desecration Demon
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Duress
Looks like the videos aren't up on youtube or twitch yet, but I'll definitely post them up when they become available.
24 land is way too much. Bile Blight works on half the decks that see standard top play, so I'll keep it main. If I had 4x Lifebane Zombies, I would definitely include it in my side. Actually, that may help fix my problem I have versus control. Where is his Spiteful Returned?! That card stirs this drink along with the Herald.
I like both versions of the deck, not sure which I'd rather play.
4x Tormented Hero
4x Rakdos Cackler
4x Pain Seer
4x Thrill Kill Assassin
4x Spiteful Returned
4x Herald of Torment
4x Mogis' Marauder
2x Desecration Demon
3x Doom Blade
3x Ultimate Price
3x Hero's Downfall
Lands
20x Swamp
1x Mutavault
4x Dark Betrayal
4x Thoughtseize
4x Lifebane Zombie
3x Bile Blight
I was roughed up by two Selesnya decks. One was aggro and one was token based around populate. Neither went well for me. Also, I keep coming up really close to G/R and Jund monsters. Lifebane zombie is there to help me even the odds.
Tomorrow night we'll see how it goes.
Can you explain to me why you are running tormented hero with no spells that target creatures you control?
A. I need a two drop and
B. It's a very workable card.
The reason why Tormented Hero is in the deck is exactly what was said above me, it's a 2 power one drop. Same with the Cackler.
To be fair, aside from that one night of Selesnya hell, I haven't had a problem with Green, White or G/R monsters, hence the sideboard. I'd love to main board them sure, but I'm not sacrificing any of my three drops, and having 12 three drops in an aggro deck is.. meh in my opinion.
I mean, to be honest I love the discussion going on, but I'm looking to overhaul this deck. I know what I want to cut and what I don't. I know what I want to tweak, and what cards I have that will work with what I can afford. My main reason for starting this was for others to try their variations and talk about what works for them. Advising me to cut a card from my 75 that has won me games time and time again, that makes opponents groan when it hits to me, is a good card.
I enjoy going 3-1 almost every night I play. I really can't be too greedy and ask for more. I've never finished with less than 2 wins. If it keeps up this consistency, I will bring it to a local GP, which a variation of it just won a big event here in CT a couple of weeks ago.
It works. Try it.
Correct! I like it because it can stick around that 2-3 extra rounds that a white or a red aggro deck can't. With the Pain Seer, there's even limited card draw which is also something that agro decks generally do not have access to.