Let me just start by saying this: I know Mill is an historically terrible, non-competitive strategy.
BUT!
Phenax, God of Deception seems like a card that is intended to power up the Mill strategy, by letting us turn control-style defenders into mill engines... and that's awesome. So here is a rough draft for a deck that I am considering playing for BNG Game Day:
The primary strategy is to just play a bunch of high-toughness defenders and sit behind them throwing control spells until Phenax hits the board for a massive mill. I call the build "Enterprise" because we're going to divert all power to the shields until our photon ... er ... Phenax ... torpedo is ready to fire.
In Magic Christmasland, we're going to play T2-T6 as:
Assuming we are on the draw, our opponent will have a maximum of 38 cards left in the library when Phenax hits the board. Phenax will be a creature, and we will "alpha-mill" with the rest of the team for a minimum of 23 cards (more if our opponent sacrificed anything to our Demon on previous turns), leaving 15 or less cards in our opponent's library. Since we didn't use the Dispel, we have that one mana open to cast Triton Tactics, allowing us to untap our two highest-toughness defenders (Wall of Frost and either Desecration Demon or Hover Barrier) AND INCREASE THEIR TOUGHNESS BY +3 EACH, allowing us to mill for another 19 or so. Pass the turn, win the game on the opponent's draw step.
The main weakness that the primary strategy faces is an instant-speed board sweeper eliminating all of those defenders (I'm looking at you, Fated Retribution), so we'll hang on to Nighthowler (or cast it as a bestow) to allow us a second deep mill (assuming Phenax is still on the board) or just a really big threat post-sweep.
I'd love some input on how to tighten up the spell selection, as well as sideboard advice. Choosing non-creature spells is something that I am generally terrible at, so I basically one-of'ed a bunch of things that look potentially useful. Since I can't imagine this being a repeatable tactic against an opponent who knows what to target, my inclination is to sideboard out all of the creatures except Omenspeaker Hover Barrier and Desecration Demon, putting in 14 "standard" control spells and an Aetherling - essentially sideboarding into a not-quite-mainstream Esper Control deck.
The mana base is also probably really skewed due to the number of lands that come into play tapped; making the Magic Christmasland scenario above work likely requires taking 10 damage from our own lands, which is probably too much to stay safe requires all the right non-Temple lands to come up. I'll have to do some more in-depth math to make it really work.
Currently there's only 2 because that's what I have. I'm kind of considering just going for 4-each on all 7 of the Christmasland cards. That would leave me with 8 or 9 slots for control cards in the main deck if we assume 23-24 lands.
1. He's the best toughness-to-mana-cost ratio available at the 4-drop slot.
2. He represents an alternate plan of attack in case Phenax doesn't show up on time.
3. Every creature sacrificed to tap him is one less attacker we have to worry about, AND grows his toughness, meaning he'll mill even harder once Phenax gets cast.
4. Once Phenax is on the board, the Demon can be tapped to mill in response to the opponent sacrificing a creature to tap him - VALUE.
Made a couple of edits, mainly focusing in on the 7 Christmasland cards and focusing the spells down a bit. I also added 3 Thoughtseize because, hey, if you got 'em, use 'em. Still working on figuring out that mana base, though.
That's incorrect. You can respond to an effect on the stack but once both players have passed priority, it will begin to resolve and will not stop resolving until it is done. You can't do anything in between. So if you pass priority at the point that combat starts after the ability triggers, your opponent will get to choose to sacrifice or not. And if they do, it will resolve. Afterwards, DD will be tapped and you won't be able to pay the cost.
Oh, and as a heads up, I believe you're a card short.
In any case, I think you'd be better off forgetting white. Just for one sphinx's revelation... you'd probably be better cutting that and helping your mana base be happier instead.
Fair enough - due to the way DD is written, I think you are correct. Regardless of that, he can still be tapped to mill prior to combat. It will just be a matter of whether or not you think your opponent is likely to sacrifice, which should usually be obvious from the board state.
I dropped Revelation and will rely on Pilfered Plans for some card draw. It's technically a bad card but it serves a dual purpose here. I'm leaving the white lands in until I figure out a sideboard strategy. I still think sideboarding into a more traditional Esper Control deck is probably the best plan.
That's correct. He can be tapped prior to combat, providing no summoning sickness. But this of course means that they can stop it from blocking. So that's a bit of a tradeoff. On that note, you can't really sideboard into typical esper. You have too many creatures and an inappropriate mana base to be hitting the double white for rev and supreme verdict. Another problem you'll find is that Phenax can't balance between having enough things and having enough control. Like here, you prettymuch autoscoop to a deck that can win without attacking like mono black devotion or anything burn. Secondly, your walls kind of don't kill anything. So, say, a red aggro deck, can just slap down more creatures than you can play walls and they'll kill you, almost certainly taking game 1, leaving you having to sideboard and rely on the drown in sorrows if you have them to try to take both game 2 and game 3. And as we all know, even if you've got a great stopper in the sideboard, you have to draw it. So the matchup leaves you hurting as you may have the tools but the chances aren't amazing. The chance to get it in time would be maybe 60-70%. Seems pretty good till you consider that you'll probably have to do it for 2 games. Then its not so good. You need to be stemming the flow, not just stopping a few creatures from attacking turn 3 on. ex, you stand a pretty fair chance to miss phantasm. Plenty of aggro decks can have you down to 10 by the time you're beginning to mount a defense if you miss it. Etc, etc. So you should probably plan to deal with such issues.
Aetherling? It's a more expensive card, but it is so versatile. It can blink to avoid most control. It can also pump its power and/or toughness. It's almost worth looking into whether or not you can make it into a 0/9, tap it with Phenax, and mill 9 cards (or more)?
What about Nightveil Specter? For a CMC of three, it "mills" (exiles) a card from the top of your opponent's library. It's a bonus that you can play that card if you have the mana. I would either trade Hover Barrier for more aggression in your deck, or Nighthowler. The reason I'd take it for the Specter is because the Theros standard in the area I play in is super fast. If you don't have the game won by turn four or the means to lock down the board, you are done. It's very frustrating for me, as a novice deck builder, to have to sit and work and think and figure how to win by turn four with any deck, but there it is. There's no time to wait for Phenax to come out of your deck... if it's part of your strategy, you have to start the game with it in your hand to win. I hope this makes sense. Maybe standard play isn't so tough elsewhere, but every time I play it's play fast or get out. Back to the point: Nighthowler is only going to be effective AFTER your Phenax hits play and starts milling. This puts you way past turn four before it is big enough to have an effect. After that, it is a formidable creature, and its bestow is pretty strong (do it to Aetherling), but once again we come to this--will it help you win on turn four?
Springleaf Drum as a secondary means to untap stuff. It gives you another chance to untap your Phenax torpedo.
I'm not sure about your mana base. Temple of Enlightenment and Temple of Silence? Why white? For the scry, or do you mean to break into Esper control? Otherwise I would take them out. I'd add some Gates if you're worried about stabilization, or maybe Chromatic Lantern if your CMC-3 spot isn't too cluttered.
All great points. Need to kill, need to out-race. I'm not sure that I'm actually weak to MBD, though. Opposing DDs are probably the worst thing they've got for me. I like the idea of sticking with what I'm already good at, though, which is ALSO winning without attacking... I just need to do that in a different way. How about sideboarding into pseudo-MBD?
-4 Hover Barrier
-4 Murmuring Phantasm
-4 Wall of Frost
-1 Phenax, God of Deception
-2 Dispel (vs. aggro only)
+4 Pack Rat
+4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
+4 Nightveil Specter
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead
+2 Aetherize (vs. aggro only)
It's not going to be quite as smooth as straight-up MBD, but it has a few advantages to help out. They tapped down Desecration Demon? Thanks for the counter, now it untaps with Triton Tactics. Over-extended with their aggro army? Aetherize and clog up their hand for a few turns. They probably won't be packing Bile Blight (since it won't kill anything they saw in the first game), so Pack Rat comes out clean. Phenax is still around, and he can still end a long game against control.
Obviously, the white scry lands go away with this plan, being replaced, I think, by 4 Dimir Guildgates, in order to handle the shift from blue-heavy to black-heavy from game 1 to game 2.
Personally, I wouldn't add Erebos. The gods, unless you're playing devotion, are just clunky, and it is difficult to hit seven black devotion in a multicolored deck. Think: Is his ability really worth wasting turn four to drop him? Personally, for decent play turn four, I'd choose Crypt Ghast. That will also help with black-heavy issue. I might even add two, just for the fun of it.
Crypt Ghast - now that is something I had not considered. I'm only swapping in Erebos in order to mimic the Mono Black Devotion creature package; if he works there, he should work here. But he's only a one-of even the real MBD, so Crypt Ghast might be a good alternate choice.
I'm not looking at Pilfered Plans as an alternate mill card; I'm looking at it as an alternative to Divination, which just so happens to also advance the mill plan. Guildmage is interesting, but if I'm milling them out anyway, their life total should be superfluous.
I'm normally an aggro Red Deck Wins/Boros Legion kind of player, so this is bit of a departure for me. That said, I am fairly confident that my normal deck would stall out against something like this main deck. In fact, I think Nev's point about how my walls don't actually kill things is important against a Mono-Red aggro deck because that means the opponent doesn't get free damage out of Boros Reckoner. Fanatic of Mogis is still going to kill me out of nowhere, though.
MBD doesn't have to swing to win. They can effectively go crazy with underworld connections while shooting down the most relevant walls. You don't have very much stuff to kill theirs at all. Count 1-2 gray merchant and you lose from just that. So they do have plenty for you to fear more than their DDs.
Erebos only needs 5 devotion. I wouldn't recommend it either, though.
I favor pilfered plans over tome scour. Duskmantle is super delicate but I suppose it'll give you more wins than without. Probably more sideboardy, though.
I'm an aggressive player; therefore, all of my card suggestions are aggressive. I've got that mastered; the last deck I took to FNM was mono-white devotion.
I've only been deck building for about six months, and it is a little disheartening to come into a standard where you aim to kill by turn four. I've been playing since the Masques block, but just started building my own decks. After six months, I am better than all my friends, but still get stomped at FNM regularly. It's very frustrating... But I guess I'm used to it now. I manage a 2-2 or, more commonly, 1-3, record usually, but that is a lot better than losing all the time like I did when I started! All this stuff is so fast that fun strategies like mill simply aren't practical anymore (unless you do it in EDH or modern).
If you are thinking of adding card draw, which I would do, what about Read the Bones? Scry, then draw. For one mana. It isn't mill, but it fits the black style of your deck. It's a pretty high value card that will help you get to your Phenax faster if you don't start the game with it.
Speaking of getting to your Phenax faster... Omenspeaker? Scry? Gotta love additional opportunities to look for your Phenax if you don't start the game with it!
Can pithing needle name a creature that was given the activated ability by phenax and shut it down from tapping and milling in the same way you can name a swamp to make sure it doesn't tap for underworld connections?
My guess is yes.
I want defender mill to work, I'd sideboard devour flesh so using thoughtseize wouldn't be an issue afterwards. Any time I've ever played duskmantle guildmage it never stuck around late enough to get any work done but also havent played since BNG released, curious to how this works out!
Read the bones costs 3, not one. Taking the 2 hurts. Better in a more controllish meta than pilfered... but then again, UB control with Jace and Ashiok as the main outlets to mill is better.
The problem with Phenax is that cards like Consuming Aberration and Desecration Demon are better clocks when they are swinging at your opponent's life total. Desecration Demon is a 4 turn clock or a 10 clock if you're trying to mill with it. Phenax forces you to run walls which are largely dead cards if Phenax is either not in play or removed. He's a very weak win condition. Jace is a better choice if you want to mill because you can still mill without having to play cards like Wall of Frost or Murmuring Phantasm.
Can pithing needle name a creature that was given the activated ability by phenax and shut it down from tapping and milling in the same way you can name a swamp to make sure it doesn't tap for underworld connections?
My guess is yes.
I want defender mill to work, I'd sideboard devour flesh so using thoughtseize wouldn't be an issue afterwards. Any time I've ever played duskmantle guildmage it never stuck around late enough to get any work done but also havent played since BNG released, curious to how this works out!
Yes, Pithing Needle could work that way, but that's an advantage to having multiple types of walls. They are going to need to have a Pithing Needle for each type of wall on the board in order to totally shut down the mill, and most decks that even have Pithing Needle are only going to have one in the sideboard.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at with Devour Flesh in the sideboard. Are you suggesting sacrificing one of my own creatures for life gain?
The problem with Phenax is that cards like Consuming Aberration and Desecration Demon are better clocks when they are swinging at your opponent's life total. Desecration Demon is a 4 turn clock or a 10 clock if you're trying to mill with it. Phenax forces you to run walls which are largely dead cards if Phenax is either not in play or removed. He's a very weak win condition. Jace is a better choice if you want to mill because you can still mill without having to play cards like Wall of Frost or Murmuring Phantasm.
Consuming Aberration is going to come down the same turn as Phenax in most cases. If the plan is to wipe out the opponent's deck in 1-2 turns, then Consuming Aberration doesn't actually do it faster.
Desecration Demon as an attacker is absolutely a good plan - I mentioned that as one of the reasons for including him in the first place. We're not going to tap him to mill if we can get him through for lethal... that would be stupid. His whole purpose in the deck is to give us an additional angle of attack.
I did forget about Jace, Memory Adept ... mainly because I don't own any, but he's a heck of a lot easier to get hold of than Architect of Thought. A 3/2 Phenax/Jace or Jace/Phenax split could absolutely turn this deck's strategy into a win. He still needs defenders to get there, though. Maybe I'll spend some time looking at 4-toughness utility creatures like Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Aerie Worshippers... anything to dodge that stupid Bile Blight!
This is my current mill style deck, after a few weeks of testing I think that I have finally found that sweet spot for where I want to be with mill and control, but I might move around CA depending on the next week as it does feel off. Let me know what you think.
Can pithing needle name a creature that was given the activated ability by phenax and shut it down from tapping and milling in the same way you can name a swamp to make sure it doesn't tap for underworld connections?
My guess is yes.
I want defender mill to work, I'd sideboard devour flesh so using thoughtseize wouldn't be an issue afterwards. Any time I've ever played duskmantle guildmage it never stuck around late enough to get any work done but also havent played since BNG released, curious to how this works out!
Yes, Pithing Needle could work that way, but that's an advantage to having multiple types of walls. They are going to need to have a Pithing Needle for each type of wall on the board in order to totally shut down the mill, and most decks that even have Pithing Needle are only going to have one in the sideboard.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at with Devour Flesh in the sideboard. Are you suggesting sacrificing one of my own creatures for life gain?
One pithing needle in a wall of frost is not fun, and you can get close to 4 wall of frosts if you play a traumatize on curve and you only have 3. (an average of 23+ when I've done it)
Yes, d-flesh for lifegain, no one wants to do that but if it meant that extra critical turn I'd do it. With so many tapped lands being played it will be a race a lot of games. And if they are popping tokens in weenie (and bile blight isn't around) you can sac a pretty big desecration demon.
Abberation the same turn as Phenax? That's a whole lot of mana there. Why not play it the turn before since then it can actually tap when Phenax comes in? That aside, Jace is plain better than Phenax. You'll find that you'll win more games with a Jace sticking for a few turns than you'll win games with Phenax. Devoting your attention to control and not packing all that Phenax coddling will leave you stronger. Anyway, Phenax being weak aside, let me take a gander at this. There's a few things I feel you're missing. First is resilient digging. Second is a way to hack away at your opponent's forces. Remember that letting them assemble critical mass still leads to you dying. For example, you block their stuff. Red drops a fanatic of mogis on turn 10 when you've killed nothing so far. You die. Black durles a while. you stop them from hitting you and before you know it, you're staring down 8 8/8 pack rats or a couple gray merchants with 12 devotion on the board. Etc, etc.
Prognostic sphinx. A 3/5 that defends himself, gives 2 devotion, can poke, and helps you dig for your win condition.
Thassa. Hey, remember how I said Jace would win you more games than Phenax by itself? Well, Thassa will too. Assuming all these walls are going to live while you live is a bit unreasonable but if you're going to assume that, then Thassa is kinda turned on, isn't it? It lets you scry. It actually kills their things. It pokes for 5 a few times and you can win. It adds one devotion and can draw that removal that was supposed to hit Phenax. Gravy.
Things that kill things. You need to kill threats on the board. The end.
A singleton crypt incursion for lulz. In all seriousness, do this. It can dig you out of holes. You don't even have to start milling for this to be semi-relevant. Remember how we play things that kill things? 4-5 creatures in the graveyard can make you last a whole lot longer or dig you out of burn range.
I'm gonna go do something else but I'll slap a tentative list together later.
I think you misunderstood me regarding Consuming Aberration. What I meant was that Consuming Aberration is the same casting cost as Phenax, so he can't come down any earlier than Phenax can. Then you have to cast something else immediately in order to guarantee you'll get to mill - so actually, you might even be playing him one turn later. Assuming a rear-end-heavy set of creatures is on the board, even if it isn't the critical mass of 4 in the example above, Phenax is better for "alpha-milling," i.e.: hitting the entire library (or at least the majority of it) at one go.
Turn 10 Fanatic of Mogis is definitely a kill, but that shouldn't be happening. We need to be alpha-milling before then. I'd like to focus on how to make that consistently happen by turn 7 or 8.
More removal is definitely a consideration, though. Maybe this deck doesn't need Thoughtseize as much as it needs Ultimate Price? I'll look at Crypt Incursion as well.
Considering that your chance of having a Phenax at all by turn 7-8 isn't that much better than a coin flip, I wouldn't count on it. To help that, you need to dig for it. Jace AOT would be helpful.
+ 3 Jace AoT - Sneak it in turn 4 and it's a must answer for most decks. You would have a better chance to resolve phenax t5
+ 1 Thassa - The scry would better your chances of drawing a Phenax and makes abberation a must kill.
Walls are completely pointless unless Phenax is out, I would drop them for more efficient creatures. Returned Phalanx is good card for the 2 slot to deal with speedy weenies.
BUT!
Phenax, God of Deception seems like a card that is intended to power up the Mill strategy, by letting us turn control-style defenders into mill engines... and that's awesome. So here is a rough draft for a deck that I am considering playing for BNG Game Day:
4 Desecration Demon
4 Hover Barrier
4 Murmuring Phantasm
2 Nighthowler
3 Phenax, God of Deception
3 Wall of Frost
4 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
=Spells=
3 Dispel
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Pilfered Plans
3 Triton Tactics
3 Thoughtseize
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
2 Mutavault
7 Island
6 Swamp
The primary strategy is to just play a bunch of high-toughness defenders and sit behind them throwing control spells until Phenax hits the board for a massive mill. I call the build "Enterprise" because we're going to divert all power to the shields until our photon ... er ... Phenax ... torpedo is ready to fire.
In Magic Christmasland, we're going to play T2-T6 as:
T2: Murmuring Phantasm
T3: Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver (Ashiok +2 to exile 3 cards)
T4: Desecration Demon (Ashiok +2 to exile 3 cards)
T5: Murmuring Phantasm & Wall of Frost (Ashiok +2 to exile 3 cards)
T6: (Ashiok +2 to exile 3 cards), Phenax, God of Deception (keeping one mana up for a Dispel in order to thwart a counter)
Assuming we are on the draw, our opponent will have a maximum of 38 cards left in the library when Phenax hits the board. Phenax will be a creature, and we will "alpha-mill" with the rest of the team for a minimum of 23 cards (more if our opponent sacrificed anything to our Demon on previous turns), leaving 15 or less cards in our opponent's library. Since we didn't use the Dispel, we have that one mana open to cast Triton Tactics, allowing us to untap our two highest-toughness defenders (Wall of Frost and either Desecration Demon or Hover Barrier) AND INCREASE THEIR TOUGHNESS BY +3 EACH, allowing us to mill for another 19 or so. Pass the turn, win the game on the opponent's draw step.
The main weakness that the primary strategy faces is an instant-speed board sweeper eliminating all of those defenders (I'm looking at you, Fated Retribution), so we'll hang on to Nighthowler (or cast it as a bestow) to allow us a second deep mill (assuming Phenax is still on the board) or just a really big threat post-sweep.
I'd love some input on how to tighten up the spell selection, as well as sideboard advice. Choosing non-creature spells is something that I am generally terrible at,
so I basically one-of'ed a bunch of things that look potentially useful. Since I can't imagine this being a repeatable tactic against an opponent who knows what to target, my inclination is to sideboard out all of the creatures exceptOmenspeakerHover Barrier and Desecration Demon, putting in 14 "standard" control spells and an Aetherling - essentially sideboarding into a not-quite-mainstream Esper Control deck.The mana base is also probably really skewed due to the number of lands that come into play tapped; making the Magic Christmasland scenario
above work likely requires taking 10 damage from our own lands, which is probably too much to stay saferequires all the right non-Temple lands to come up. I'll have to do some more in-depth math to make it really work.1. He's the best toughness-to-mana-cost ratio available at the 4-drop slot.
2. He represents an alternate plan of attack in case Phenax doesn't show up on time.
3. Every creature sacrificed to tap him is one less attacker we have to worry about, AND grows his toughness, meaning he'll mill even harder once Phenax gets cast.
4. Once Phenax is on the board, the Demon can be tapped to mill in response to the opponent sacrificing a creature to tap him - VALUE.
Made a couple of edits, mainly focusing in on the 7 Christmasland cards and focusing the spells down a bit. I also added 3 Thoughtseize because, hey, if you got 'em, use 'em. Still working on figuring out that mana base, though.
Oh, and as a heads up, I believe you're a card short.
In any case, I think you'd be better off forgetting white. Just for one sphinx's revelation... you'd probably be better cutting that and helping your mana base be happier instead.
I dropped Revelation and will rely on Pilfered Plans for some card draw. It's technically a bad card but it serves a dual purpose here. I'm leaving the white lands in until I figure out a sideboard strategy. I still think sideboarding into a more traditional Esper Control deck is probably the best plan.
What about Nightveil Specter? For a CMC of three, it "mills" (exiles) a card from the top of your opponent's library. It's a bonus that you can play that card if you have the mana. I would either trade Hover Barrier for more aggression in your deck, or Nighthowler. The reason I'd take it for the Specter is because the Theros standard in the area I play in is super fast. If you don't have the game won by turn four or the means to lock down the board, you are done. It's very frustrating for me, as a novice deck builder, to have to sit and work and think and figure how to win by turn four with any deck, but there it is. There's no time to wait for Phenax to come out of your deck... if it's part of your strategy, you have to start the game with it in your hand to win. I hope this makes sense. Maybe standard play isn't so tough elsewhere, but every time I play it's play fast or get out. Back to the point: Nighthowler is only going to be effective AFTER your Phenax hits play and starts milling. This puts you way past turn four before it is big enough to have an effect. After that, it is a formidable creature, and its bestow is pretty strong (do it to Aetherling), but once again we come to this--will it help you win on turn four?
Springleaf Drum as a secondary means to untap stuff. It gives you another chance to untap your Phenax torpedo.
I'm not sure about your mana base. Temple of Enlightenment and Temple of Silence? Why white? For the scry, or do you mean to break into Esper control? Otherwise I would take them out. I'd add some Gates if you're worried about stabilization, or maybe Chromatic Lantern if your CMC-3 spot isn't too cluttered.
-4 Hover Barrier
-4 Murmuring Phantasm
-4 Wall of Frost
-1 Phenax, God of Deception
-2 Dispel (vs. aggro only)
+4 Pack Rat
+4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
+4 Nightveil Specter
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead
+2 Aetherize (vs. aggro only)
It's not going to be quite as smooth as straight-up MBD, but it has a few advantages to help out. They tapped down Desecration Demon? Thanks for the counter, now it untaps with Triton Tactics. Over-extended with their aggro army? Aetherize and clog up their hand for a few turns. They probably won't be packing Bile Blight (since it won't kill anything they saw in the first game), so Pack Rat comes out clean. Phenax is still around, and he can still end a long game against control.
Obviously, the white scry lands go away with this plan, being replaced, I think, by 4 Dimir Guildgates, in order to handle the shift from blue-heavy to black-heavy from game 1 to game 2.
Pilfered Plans for Tome Scour? And Duskmantle Guildmage will also cause your opponents to lose life when you mill.
Some more ideas for sideboard or whatever:
Consuming Aberration
Undercity Informer
Paranoid Delusions
Tome Scour
I'm not looking at Pilfered Plans as an alternate mill card; I'm looking at it as an alternative to Divination, which just so happens to also advance the mill plan. Guildmage is interesting, but if I'm milling them out anyway, their life total should be superfluous.
I'm normally an aggro Red Deck Wins/Boros Legion kind of player, so this is bit of a departure for me. That said, I am fairly confident that my normal deck would stall out against something like this main deck. In fact, I think Nev's point about how my walls don't actually kill things is important against a Mono-Red aggro deck because that means the opponent doesn't get free damage out of Boros Reckoner. Fanatic of Mogis is still going to kill me out of nowhere, though.
Erebos only needs 5 devotion. I wouldn't recommend it either, though.
I favor pilfered plans over tome scour. Duskmantle is super delicate but I suppose it'll give you more wins than without. Probably more sideboardy, though.
I've only been deck building for about six months, and it is a little disheartening to come into a standard where you aim to kill by turn four. I've been playing since the Masques block, but just started building my own decks. After six months, I am better than all my friends, but still get stomped at FNM regularly. It's very frustrating... But I guess I'm used to it now. I manage a 2-2 or, more commonly, 1-3, record usually, but that is a lot better than losing all the time like I did when I started! All this stuff is so fast that fun strategies like mill simply aren't practical anymore (unless you do it in EDH or modern).
If you are thinking of adding card draw, which I would do, what about Read the Bones? Scry, then draw. For one mana. It isn't mill, but it fits the black style of your deck. It's a pretty high value card that will help you get to your Phenax faster if you don't start the game with it.
Speaking of getting to your Phenax faster... Omenspeaker? Scry? Gotta love additional opportunities to look for your Phenax if you don't start the game with it!
My guess is yes.
I want defender mill to work, I'd sideboard devour flesh so using thoughtseize wouldn't be an issue afterwards. Any time I've ever played duskmantle guildmage it never stuck around late enough to get any work done but also havent played since BNG released, curious to how this works out!
Yes, Pithing Needle could work that way, but that's an advantage to having multiple types of walls. They are going to need to have a Pithing Needle for each type of wall on the board in order to totally shut down the mill, and most decks that even have Pithing Needle are only going to have one in the sideboard.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at with Devour Flesh in the sideboard. Are you suggesting sacrificing one of my own creatures for life gain?
Consuming Aberration is going to come down the same turn as Phenax in most cases. If the plan is to wipe out the opponent's deck in 1-2 turns, then Consuming Aberration doesn't actually do it faster.
Desecration Demon as an attacker is absolutely a good plan - I mentioned that as one of the reasons for including him in the first place. We're not going to tap him to mill if we can get him through for lethal... that would be stupid. His whole purpose in the deck is to give us an additional angle of attack.
I did forget about Jace, Memory Adept ... mainly because I don't own any, but he's a heck of a lot easier to get hold of than Architect of Thought. A 3/2 Phenax/Jace or Jace/Phenax split could absolutely turn this deck's strategy into a win. He still needs defenders to get there, though. Maybe I'll spend some time looking at 4-toughness utility creatures like Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Aerie Worshippers... anything to dodge that stupid Bile Blight!
4x Bile Blight
2x Consuming Aberration
4x Hero's Downfall
4x Hover Barrier
7x Island
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Mutavault
4x Oracle's Insight
4x Pack Rat
2x Phenax, God of Deception
7x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
4x Thoughtseize
4x Wall of Frost
4x Watery Grave
2x Dissolve
3x Duress
2x Duskmantle Guildmage
4x Far / Away
2x Notion Thief
2x Soul Ransom
Link to deck @ TappedOut.net
One pithing needle in a wall of frost is not fun, and you can get close to 4 wall of frosts if you play a traumatize on curve and you only have 3. (an average of 23+ when I've done it)
Yes, d-flesh for lifegain, no one wants to do that but if it meant that extra critical turn I'd do it. With so many tapped lands being played it will be a race a lot of games. And if they are popping tokens in weenie (and bile blight isn't around) you can sac a pretty big desecration demon.
Prognostic sphinx. A 3/5 that defends himself, gives 2 devotion, can poke, and helps you dig for your win condition.
Thassa. Hey, remember how I said Jace would win you more games than Phenax by itself? Well, Thassa will too. Assuming all these walls are going to live while you live is a bit unreasonable but if you're going to assume that, then Thassa is kinda turned on, isn't it? It lets you scry. It actually kills their things. It pokes for 5 a few times and you can win. It adds one devotion and can draw that removal that was supposed to hit Phenax. Gravy.
Things that kill things. You need to kill threats on the board. The end.
A singleton crypt incursion for lulz. In all seriousness, do this. It can dig you out of holes. You don't even have to start milling for this to be semi-relevant. Remember how we play things that kill things? 4-5 creatures in the graveyard can make you last a whole lot longer or dig you out of burn range.
I'm gonna go do something else but I'll slap a tentative list together later.
Turn 10 Fanatic of Mogis is definitely a kill, but that shouldn't be happening. We need to be alpha-milling before then. I'd like to focus on how to make that consistently happen by turn 7 or 8.
More removal is definitely a consideration, though. Maybe this deck doesn't need Thoughtseize as much as it needs Ultimate Price? I'll look at Crypt Incursion as well.
+ 1 Thassa - The scry would better your chances of drawing a Phenax and makes abberation a must kill.