MTG Salvation

So with all the new love we're getting for Minotaurs in the new set, I thought it was time to dig out my old minotaur list that I sort of shelved a few months ago and see if I can make it FNM-worthy now. Here's what I have now for my new list:



A little explanation of card choices.

Creatures:

Spells:

Artifacts:

I'd like to make this deck better so I can do fairly well at FNM play. I'm obviously not expecting anything top-tier with this, but if I can speed the deck up and improve it's consistency a bit, that'd already take the decl much further than where it's at now. What does the deck need? More cows? A lower curve? More removal? I'm open to suggestions!

You're currently missing the two best minotaurs in Standard: Boros Reckoner and Mutavault. I'd figure out a way to add them if I were you. GL.

As Bonkshebonk said, you definitely need Boros Reckoners in any Minotaur deck. Not sure about Mutavault, maybe 2 or 3, since a lot of our creatures have double colour (though that might not be a problem with Ragemonger). Also, I might include Magma Jet - Read the Bones slows us for being an aggressive deck, but Magma Jet is still an aggressive card in it's own right. Drown in Sorrow might also be good here, apart from Brawler, our minotaurs have at least 3 toughness.

I highly suggest a little bit of a heavier control package. Minotaurs can't particularly blitz, nor are they particularly resilient. So you'll have to take it a little slower. A bit of control and a bit of hand hate to make it so they can't wipe out your stuff as easily will go a long way.

rakdos return steals games

I'm working on acquiring Reckoners as of now, but aside from that, the other posts so far make it seem like I should try to be a more midrange-y deck with some control rather than full aggro, correct? So with cards coming in like Rakdos's Return and Drown in Sorrow (possibly Thoughtseize as well?) What cards would you all suggest I remove?

Also, what are some good sideboard options that I should include here? I've never been that great at sideboard construction, so any help is appreciated.

Quote from JoshB8116

"It's double B is nice devotion for Mogis". Fanatic of Mogis checks devotion to red so the whip won't count for anything there.

You said the Whip is likely to be first for the chop and I'd definitely take it out. I don't think it's doing much for you except giving you a bit of extra life to play with if the game goes long.

Hes talking about the actual god mogis. I think that rakdos keyrune is always something to consider. 3/1 first strike and its sweeper proof. Mutavaults are just too good not to have, and the key runes will help allow you to play colorless lands.

Quote from torusle

If you are playing tribal. Why not run Door of Destinies? Maybe as a two off.

I've never been a fan of Door of Destinies, even in casual tribal decks. It's just too slow for me and takes a little too long to really notice much improvement. Perhaps since Minotaurs are a little slower than regular aggressive decks it may be fine, but I'd really have to test it out a lot to see if it's worth it.

I just noticed these threads:

Minotaur Devotion
Minotaur Tribal
Cloven Devotion Red (Mono-Red Minotaurs)
[Deck] COWS!
... and possibly others out there that I missed.

Will it be good if we merge all these threads to make an Official Minotaur Deck thread here in Standard Deck Creation? In this way, we can all throw in ideas in just one thread and need not to create a new one.

I really think this will really help especially for players (like me) who wanted to build a real solid competitive Minotaur Deck and gather all our ideas here.

Here's my take on the tribal minotaurs. It's pretty rough at the moment, but I've actually splashed white in hopes to smooth the deck out to a degree.



Obviously Rakdos Cackler isn't a minotaur, but he definitely helps round out this curve a bit more nicely. He provides some early damage and, if I choose, can be a blocker. I don't really want to be finding him late game when I have more synergy going, but I definitely want to see him, so I'm only including 3. This is definitely subject to change.

One of the biggest things that I'm fiddling around with is the archetypes. I have Archetype of Courage mainboarded and Archetype of Aggression in the sideboard. Both have surprisingly good synergy with the minotaurs, giving them an alternate source for trample in Aggression's case as well as first strike to start blowing them out a bit more smoothly. Combined with the boosts from the lords, this could be deadly. The one concern that I have is that Courage is WW which might be tough on the mana curve, although with Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx as well as the shocklands, I think that this should not be an issue.

Where they especially shine is with one of the key cards for this deck in quite a few matchups. Immortal Servitude is just ridiculous for minotaurs late game. You are mostly seeing creatures, so any card that ends up in the graveyard won't be as negative as it might be in other decks. Seeing as the majority of minotaurs are 3 or 4, you will be getting a lot back from your graveyard if it comes to that. Obviously, be cautious of graveyard removal, but the hope is to be beating face enough for them to concentrate more on the field.

One of the main bonuses of white is Boros Charm. It is just a wonderful card and it even has a minotaur on it.

Drown in Sorrow is a solid card that, unlike Anger of the Gods, does not remove the vast majority of your creatures.

I doubt that I will be able to afford Mogis, God of Slaughter, so I have not included him. If I get copies, I'll tweak around him.

Other cards I'm considering: Gleam of Battle (promotes attacking but is expensive), Minotaur Aggressor (A pretty large dude with first strike)

I liked the idea of Rakdos, lord of riots and minotaurs. With reduction cost from rakdos + ragemonger, you could be dumping your hand for free after a lightning strike.
I think Erebos might be a better choice than mogis. There is no reason they wouldn't just take 2 dmg unless they will get advantage from sac'ing a Gary to whip back or make the token with voice etc. Erebos would give a needed card advantage and lifegain null. Even if he probably wouldn't get activated.
Legion loyalist for a 1 drop might fix missing another buff for attacks as it gives pro token, first strike, trample for batallion trigger. Has haste so you can pop him in to tilt an attack in your favor which is why I would prefer him over cackler/firedrinker slots.
I definitely like the idea of immortal servitude cast for X=3 or dreadboring your own underworld cerebus to flood the board after repeated wipes or long fights.
If you are adding white.. aurelia needs in so bad. I'm not sure if it would work like this but trigger her extra attack and untap clone maker guy in the process so you can attack with new aurelia next attack until you run out of mana to trigger new aurelia clones?
Anywho, just some ideas to add in to the thought pool.

Totally not too harsh at all. If I didn't want criticism, I wouldn't have posted. To explain a few of the cards, Drown in Sorrow definitely was me reacting to Anger of the Gods and saying "But what if I need them still?" Even with all of the 2 butts, there are quite a few 3, so I figured it was worth it, but I definitely see where you are coming from. I'm taking it out and changing up quite a few of the cards.

Here's the new work-up, Rakdos Style:



As you can see, there were a few significant changes, such as replacing Rakdos Cackler with Legion Loyalist, which I like a lot more in this build. I really liked the first strike that Archetype of Courage was bringing, but as you said, it wasn't likely that I was getting WW. It pained me to see him go as it would bring such an advantage if I could figure out how to really work him in.

In terms of lands, I'm actually liking Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx in here. There are so darn many red minotaurs in here that having them accumulate, especially with Ragemonger on the field, just means that I will likely be able to empty my hand. It may not have as good synergy for the black cows, but it sure does bring the heat.

Unfortunately, I don't think I will ever be able to afford another playset of Mutavaults. I ended up having to sell them for personal reasons, although I wish I still had them for this deck. Just chances are it will never happen, no matter how nice it would be.

For mana base, I'm starting the build at 10-4 and I'll adjust as necessary. Some of the most important cows need black, so I want to make sure that I'll have a source. 10 swamps including duals may be enough, but I want to make sure and I can always whittle it down if I find I'm getting too much or too little.

Now, with these changes made, I'll say this. I do think that this deck really wants some white in it. It is about finding that happy medium, though. Personally, Revoke Existence and Boros Charm just work so well in this deck that it's hard to pass them up. We don't exactly have many answers to gods, so Revoke was a nice option, although swinging to the fences still works.

Also, I know I'm stubborn, but I really want to make Immortal Servitude work. I'll keep it as a one of in my sideboard for now, but the moves it can make (since this is definitely feeling more midrange now). We're aiming for that 3 mark because that will get us back the "important" cows: Boros Reckoner, Kragma Butcher, Rageblood Shaman, Ragemonger and potentially even Archetype of Aggression if we mainboard it.

I'll keep looking at it and tweaking, though. And feel free to criticize. Obviously I listen to at least a little of it ha. (Although I still want this to be tri-color in my heart of hearts)

Quote from TequilaFlavor

Mono Black Devotion and Mono Blue Devotion both usually don't splash white, so both often can't deal with sweepers or enchantments, yet they manage(d) to be tier 1 decks anyway.

But MBD and MUD also have a lot of options available in their own right. Black gets discard, dual black kill, and even more gimmicky things like the whip that we shouldn't be running. MUD gets all assortments of spells, including some pretty powerful counters. So, they have these options that could potentially still work in the deck, whereas the options that we have just would not function in the deck well.

The best much-needed one drop for this deck is Thoughtseize. Hit their Verdicts and spot removal or Elspeths whatever turn 1.

Quote from TrappedUnderIce

The best much-needed one drop for this deck is Thoughtseize. Hit their Verdicts and spot removal or Elspeths whatever turn 1.

Looking into Thoughtseize, it definitely seems worth it. I'll probably rework the deck so it has 2 copies in it. My one problem with it is that Thoughtseize is pretty much a dead card right when this deck wants to get rolling. So, if we don't draw it opening hand, it severely decreases its usefulness when instead we could have those slots be creatures or such that are useful nearly any turn.

What are everyone else's thoughts on Thoughtseize and how many copies we should run?

Kragma butcher seems like it is probably next up on the chop block.
Thoughtseize would be best in the sideboard. Game 1 isn't where you want to lose4 life to see your opponent is aggro.

Kragma Butcher is definitely the logical choice without taking out any of our removal, although I definitely like how he's a 4/3 pretty much every turn after his first attack.

I'm now shifting my DEGA WBR Minotaur Deck into pure Rakdos BR build. Although I really wanna stick with having Boros Charm since it has save my cows many times against verdicts before, I guess I'll try running the cows without them. Here is my current list:



I included a full play-set of both Deathbellow Raider and Felhide Brawler since they are the only ones we have at 2cmc. I really don't care about Felhide Brawler's ability since blocking with it is not going to happen most of the time. Many people tend to think what the Minotaur deck will do for the first 2 turns since most good ones are at 3 cmc. While we won't do anything at the first turn (Except if we side in Thoughtseize), we can do some clean-up in the second turn just in case our 2 drop Minotaurs didn't appear. We take-out out creatures on the second turn to give way to our horde of Mad Cows.

Also, I prefer Dreadbore over Hero's Downfall in here. Instant speed is good, but I prefer low cmc spot removal and I also avoid having BB on the cost.

Dragon Mantle is essentially a cantrip for me in addition to giving fire-breathing to my cows and Madcap Skills helps too.

Here's what is going through my head for a deck. Brainstorming while working, so I will be back later to update with new ideas. The drawbacks of the 2drops just don't let them come in.

What did your DEGA list look like, Xanthic? And any reason that you didn't include Rakdos Cackler or Legion Loyalist?

I like the minotaur theme decks right now but I am kind of surprised most arn't running shock or searing blood which seem like they just do work.
Searing blood especially since it bolts the player as well as shocks a critter. but maybe I am wrong, can anyone explain why there is a lack of basic burn other than the lightning strikes?

Quote from Pyromentalist

Searing blood especially since it bolts the player as well as shocks a critter. but maybe I am wrong, can anyone explain why there is a lack of basic burn other than the lightning strikes?

Searing blood needs a target creature and it needs that creature to die(and you should want that creature to die). VS monoblack, control, green, u/g that could be dead weight. I'm not much for magma jet because it's only 2 dmg which rarely gets there for its 2 mana cost even with the scry2. The possible 5 damage for 2 is a hard one to resist though.
A satyr firedancer in the 2 slot would be a much better deck to pack more spells like them, but could shift too much away from the theme to keep minotaurs relevant in the deck.
With Red/Black we also have all of the black removal available which removes the reason for having damage spells in favor of doomblade and ultimate price.

Soooo... I had this great idea, but I'm not sharing it. Here's a much worse idea involving splashing green in addition to black. Actually turned out better than I thought it would because of the 1/2 drop gap with minotards, but there should be room for improvement.

Ember Swallower, Underworld Cerberus, Armed, Flesh , Gaze of Granite, Mizzium Mortars, Devour flesh Rescue from the Underworld, Fade into Antiquity, Slaughter games , Erebos, God

Quote from darkforce547

What did your DEGA list look like, Xanthic? And any reason that you didn't include Rakdos Cackler or Legion Loyalist?

In my DEGA list before, I have included Rakdos Cackler, Boros Charm, Chained to the Rocks and also Sacred Foundry and Temple of Triumph. The rest are the same minus the BNG cards and I have Purphoros instead of Mogis.

Quote from TequilaFlavor

Interesting list, not bad at all !

I'd definitely put 4x Thoughtseize in the main deck, especially with no other turn 1 play available. Like one of the Pros jokingly said in a random article I read: "Thoughtseize is conditional, it's only good if your opponent plays spells." That's pretty much true, this card is only ever bad if your opponent plays a fast aggro deck and you topdeck it lategame - it can, on the other hand, answer stuff you have absolutely no other answer to in your colors: Enchantments, Gods (Gild is too conditional) and stuff like Supreme Verdict or Blood Baron of Vizkopa.

I would also strongly suggest not running Drown in Sorrow in the main deck, that card is basically a trap in that you have absolutely no idea if it will be of any use until you know the match-up.

If you cut the Drowns and maybe 1 Magma Jet or Dreadbore, you can easily main deck 4x Thoughtseize and it will make life a lot easier for you. 2 copies of Drown should still do fine in the sideboard. The only other thing that is missing from your deck is Mutavault, the 2nd best Minotaur in Standard after Boros Reckoner, in my humble opinion. You should not get mana screwed too often by running at least 2 instead of 2 mountains, you could even try out running a playset and see how it goes - though that might be greedy.

Thanks! I'm still in the fence about Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods. I'm pretty much used with decks always running sweepers. I'll test to see if my deck could survive without them. As for Thoughtseize, I still need to acquire them and also Mutavault, which is so freaking expensive. If I manage to get some, I'll probably put 2 on the main. As for Thoughtseize, I'll put all 4 in main when I get them.

This is my extremely rough Minotaur deck.


Card Explanations:

Obviously this deck is meant to have fun and perhaps win the occasional FNM. I think it may see legitimate competitive status depending on what Journey into Nyx and M15 give us, or maybe get lucky with Huey. Anyway, as I said this a rough draft but I think it has promise with a little tweaking.