Sorry I haven't posted in a while. Was playing in multiple pre-release tournaments and my classes whooped me this week. So I played this deck last Friday and went 2-3. Beat G/B Aggro 2-0, lost to G/W Populate Aggro 1-2, lost to MBD 1-2, beat Junk Midrange 2-0, lost to MBD 1-2. I used the deck that SenorClean ran at GP except using 3 Turn/Burn in the main instead of Negate. I loved that change but I'm willing to try something new. I picked up a few Kiora this past week and gonna try her out tomorrow night. Here's my current iteration:
I'm wanting to try a few creatures just to see what happens. I'm a big fan of the Saruli Gatekeepers because it keeps the deck out of Gray Merchant range. And against MBD, they can just use that kill spell for a Pack Rat if they don't kill SG. It's just a thought. The Gatecreeper Vines are good as a 2 of since it tutors and gives us more chances to end the game a turn quicker. As much as I like SG, I'm willing to change them into like 1 Quicken, 1 Urban Evolution, and 1 Druid's Deliverance. Yes, I took one "fog" out because of the lifegain from SG. The sideboard is a mess right now and I'm not sure which way to go. Definitely gonna run at least 3 Perimeter but I'm not sure on everything else. Do we want to keep Negate or have Gainsay? Revoke Existence or Wear/Tear? I'm open to thoughts and I'll have a more detailed FNM report after tomorrow night. Thanks!
I'm going with Revoke Existence in the sideboard, at least at the beginning of the format, because people will be trying out the new gods. Mogis, Xenagos, and Phenax all look problematic, and Revoke Existence gives us an answer that Wear and Tear doesn't.
I'm starting to look at Swan Song myself, but I'm not sure. Unravel is a good answer and thanks for pointing that out! Ben, how are 3 Quicken working for you? I'm only playing 1 because of how situational it is but I can see 2, just not 3.
Swan Song is a good counter for U but then it do have a drawback of giving a 2/2 flier on your opponent's side. The token could be taken care of, but IMO I really don't want it main, possibly just a sideboard material for me.
@Pennydude
As for Quicken, 2 would be enough. Having to draw for just one U is great and also letting you cast your sweepers at instant speed is pretty decent and nice too.
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Yea, I'm starting to jump on the Quicken bandwagon, but I think I'm just gonna try 1 tonight. I want to fit the Saruli Gatekeepers in my sideboard but I have too many other cards I want to play.
Heroes' Reunion doesn't affect the board state, just keeping you from dying. I'm not a fan of it. I re-read the article on limitedmagic.com and I can understand why he doesn't play Saruli Gatekeepers. I don't see how this beats Mono Red. What do you think about Slaughter Games in the board? Use it against MBD naming Grey Merchant and they cannot win.
I run 2 Slaughter Gamesin the side. I also run Last Breath in the side to deal with Mutavault. I have been toying with Saruli Gatekeepers for a while, as they seem so solid, both for the life and the big butt speed bump. I have replaced him with Courser of Kruphix, as Courser serves a few different roles. Life gain, and basically a bunch of land drops that we might not see otherwise. My current list is untested in a meta that is rife with control and jund (jund can be an ugly matchup after board, because they just run SO. MUCH. DISRUPTION). And a good deal of U devotion and Gruul/Green aggro builds. At any rate here is my current list, and I think it responds better to a meta with less thought seize.
So far, Kiora is totally boss. If I see 2 a game, that's 4 extra cards and 4 extra land drops. She smooths things out remarkably, and she can often overwhelm the board with advantage. I have played her numerous times after a Verdict, and she locks down an attacker on her own, sometimes for 2 or 3 turns. I find the Courser can lead to poor decision making (I.E. Playing a second guild gate of any type, rather than activating Maze's End), but the turns where I have him and Kiora, activate maze's end, play it again, then play a land off the top and draw a card are like casting time warp if I have a fog in hand. Pithing Needle also works to shut off Mutavault out of the side, and it is worthwhile in almost every matchup.
Ive top 8'ed 3 times with my previous list, so I think Ive made a few improvements. I think the idea of Quicken is really clunky, and the week I played Swan Song in the side, I sided them OUT for game 3 because you never want to be fogging a single creature with this deck, and that 2 drop flier can do that to you. Gainsay, Negate, or Dipsel all seem like a better option, but I don't think we need too much against control, unless they have memory adepts in the board.
I like that list!! After looking at it, I'm now thinking about taking out 1 more Druid's Deliverance (14 fogs still) and adding 1 Urban Evolution. 14 fogs + 3 Saruli Gatekeepers + 2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave should be fine.
I like that list!! After looking at it, I'm now thinking about taking out 1 more Druid's Deliverance (14 fogs still) and adding 1 Urban Evolution. 14 fogs + 3 Saruli Gatekeepers + 2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave should be fine.
I honestly think you're better off with more Riot Controls and less Saruli Gatekeepers. I think they're just a terrible top deck when you don't need to gain life, or when the life gain won't save you. I'd rather see another fog, or a draw spell, or one of 5 wrath effects. Its also an almost entirely dead card against control, which comprises a lot of my meta.
List looks good! I've got 2 Kiora the crashing wave on there way and am looking forward to seeing how she does in my list.
Make sure you post how she works out. I can see her not being as effective as people think, but I really do hope she's exactly what this deck needs to break through to the next level.
In about 20 games, against Jund, MonoB and U/W control, Kiora has been a fantastic top deck in every matchup. She blanks a creature, draws cards, and lets you ramp to catch up. She's a boss. I only managed to ultimate once against Jund, and things get quickly out of hand once you start popping Krakens like a pea dispenser every turn. She's fantastic.
I like that list!! After looking at it, I'm now thinking about taking out 1 more Druid's Deliverance (14 fogs still) and adding 1 Urban Evolution. 14 fogs + 3 Saruli Gatekeepers + 2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave should be fine.
I honestly think you're better off with more Riot Controls and less Saruli Gatekeepers. I think they're just a terrible top deck when you don't need to gain life, or when the life gain won't save you. I'd rather see another fog, or a draw spell, or one of 5 wrath effects. Its also an almost entirely dead card against control, which comprises a lot of my meta.
I'm running 4 Riot Control already, but with the deck being inherently good against control, I think 3 Gatekeeper is fine. It's definitely on the watch list though. Yea, it is dead against control but it makes the aggro matchups better and gets us out of Grey Merchant range. I'm open to trying something else though. I do want to keep 2 Gatecreeper Vine. I guess I could go -3 Gatekeeper and +1 Quicken, +1 Urban Evolution, +1 Druid's Deliverance.
I just don't understand everyone's desire to run Quicken. It's just so, so, so slow in this deck. We already have to wait until t5 to cast Verdict, if we hit the perfect 4 land drops, I really don't think you can stretch that against some of the aggro in the format to t6. Also, quicken does positively nothing on its own. You draw quicken after your opponent just rakdos's returned you for 5, and what have you got?
Good point and it was just a thought. When I played this last week, I loved having 3 Merciless Eviction main so I may go back to that. I found a Standard tournament near me tonight so I'm gonna try the creatureless version. I definitely see why running no creatures is good for the deck.
went 6-0 last night. I tested with quicken a bit over the week, i do not like it. It always cycled for 1. I ran cyclonic rift and, i must say, loved it. so clutch against so many scenarios. here is my current list:
This is a cool list. I like the idea of creatureless a lot, do you find yourself ever missing gate creepers though? Also your land count is pretty high, it seems even divinations might not help that with a bad draw. I do like Cyclonic Rift a lot though. I tested it early and found that the searching was consistently better. But I definitely had a few situations where I wished I had one. I wonder if Rift + Kiora is a nice control medium, as I'd much rather run Kiora than Divination.
The deck draws really well, and divination fits the curve and nets us 2 cards, no questions asked. urban gets clunky, especcially in multiples, sphinx's rev is too expensive for too little impact, read the bones drains life, which really does matter. Kiora is super fragile and in order to get the full benefit from this 4 drop cantrip, you have to have another land, and this is not always the case. Also, gatecreeper may as well be a land. any player who knows the deck will kill is because they know that removal is useless otherwise and swing through. Mana fixing is nice, and setting up the maze is great, but i tend to do that naturally 9 times out of 10.
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Standard: Fog Maze
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
I think Kiora, the Crashing Wave will be okay in this deck...I'd still rather Urban Evolution for one more colorless. Kiora won't stick in standard...her effectiveness to me is in using her draw/land ability twice...which will almost never happen.
So how did the SCG on-camera match turn out? And do we know the pilot's list? The last time I ran this deck, it was using Prophetic Prisms and two or three Crackling Perimeters main. Also not as sweeper heavy, but was a 28-land list with singleton shocklands for WU, GU and GW. Have these inovations fallen out of favor? I liked running a second wincon main (Perimeters) as one lucky Ashiok activation can just end the game on the spot.
I think we should focus on making bad match up better rather than trying to push the hot new tech. How does Koira help our mono black devotion match up. You know the most popular and as of now best deck in the format.
I played in a GP Trial today and went 4-1 during the Swiss rounds but lost in the semi-finals. Everyone was scared to play against me!! I did make some changes to the deck I posted before (page 38) and will post the deck and full matches later since I'm tired.
Played in a TCG Gold today, went 4-2 in the Swiss placing 9th. I lost a match in 3 to Mono Blue due to mill Jace and me getting stuck on 3 lands for a while. Lost a match in 2 games to MBD after mulligans and hand disruption. Gary is a house that we need to worry about. Out of the three MBD that I faced today, two of them had problems getting Gary on time, but I was living on the edge. They had plenty of time and draw to get there but got unlucky.
After today I'll be sideboarding two Slaughter Games.
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2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
4 Maze's End
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Riot Control
3 Druid's Deliverance
4 Detention Sphere
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Merciless Eviction
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Saruli Gatekeepers
2 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Crackling Perimeter
3 Negate
2 Slaughter Games
2 Revoke Existence
2 Bow of Nylea
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Saruli Gatekeepers
1 Assemble the Legion
I'm wanting to try a few creatures just to see what happens. I'm a big fan of the Saruli Gatekeepers because it keeps the deck out of Gray Merchant range. And against MBD, they can just use that kill spell for a Pack Rat if they don't kill SG. It's just a thought. The Gatecreeper Vines are good as a 2 of since it tutors and gives us more chances to end the game a turn quicker. As much as I like SG, I'm willing to change them into like 1 Quicken, 1 Urban Evolution, and 1 Druid's Deliverance. Yes, I took one "fog" out because of the lifegain from SG. The sideboard is a mess right now and I'm not sure which way to go. Definitely gonna run at least 3 Perimeter but I'm not sure on everything else. Do we want to keep Negate or have Gainsay? Revoke Existence or Wear/Tear? I'm open to thoughts and I'll have a more detailed FNM report after tomorrow night. Thanks!
-Pennydude
@Pennydude
As for Quicken, 2 would be enough. Having to draw for just one U is great and also letting you cast your sweepers at instant speed is pretty decent and nice too.
Lands
4x Maze's End
3x Azorius Guildgate
3x Simic Guildgate
3x Selesnya Guildgate
2x Rakdos Guildgate
2x Golgari Guildgate
2x Izzet Guildgate
2x Orzhov Guildgate
2x Boros Guildgate
2x Gruul Guildgate
2x Dimir Guildgate
3x Omenspeaker
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Supreme Verdict
3x Urban Evolution
1x Merciless Eviction
4x Fog
3x Riot Control
3x Druids Deliverance
2x Defend the Hearth
4x Detention Sphere
3x Crackling Perimeter
2x Crypt Incursion
2x Pithing Needle
2x Slaughter Games
2x Last Breath
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Elixir of Immortality
So far, Kiora is totally boss. If I see 2 a game, that's 4 extra cards and 4 extra land drops. She smooths things out remarkably, and she can often overwhelm the board with advantage. I have played her numerous times after a Verdict, and she locks down an attacker on her own, sometimes for 2 or 3 turns. I find the Courser can lead to poor decision making (I.E. Playing a second guild gate of any type, rather than activating Maze's End), but the turns where I have him and Kiora, activate maze's end, play it again, then play a land off the top and draw a card are like casting time warp if I have a fog in hand. Pithing Needle also works to shut off Mutavault out of the side, and it is worthwhile in almost every matchup.
Ive top 8'ed 3 times with my previous list, so I think Ive made a few improvements. I think the idea of Quicken is really clunky, and the week I played Swan Song in the side, I sided them OUT for game 3 because you never want to be fogging a single creature with this deck, and that 2 drop flier can do that to you. Gainsay, Negate, or Dipsel all seem like a better option, but I don't think we need too much against control, unless they have memory adepts in the board.
Thoughts?
I honestly think you're better off with more Riot Controls and less Saruli Gatekeepers. I think they're just a terrible top deck when you don't need to gain life, or when the life gain won't save you. I'd rather see another fog, or a draw spell, or one of 5 wrath effects. Its also an almost entirely dead card against control, which comprises a lot of my meta.
Make sure you post how she works out. I can see her not being as effective as people think, but I really do hope she's exactly what this deck needs to break through to the next level.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
I'm running 4 Riot Control already, but with the deck being inherently good against control, I think 3 Gatekeeper is fine. It's definitely on the watch list though. Yea, it is dead against control but it makes the aggro matchups better and gets us out of Grey Merchant range. I'm open to trying something else though. I do want to keep 2 Gatecreeper Vine. I guess I could go -3 Gatekeeper and +1 Quicken, +1 Urban Evolution, +1 Druid's Deliverance.
4 Maze's End
4 Selesnya Guildgate
4 Simic Guildgate
3 Azorius Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Defend The Hearth
4 Druid's Deliverance
4 Fog
4 Riot Control
2 Cyclonic Rift
Sorceries:10
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Divination
3 Merciless Eviction
Enchantments: 4
4 Detention Sphere
3 Negate
2 Crackling Perimeter
2 Elixir of Immortality
2 Gainsay
2 Pithing Needle
2 Slaughter Games
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Wear // Tear
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive
Modern: WUBRG Infect
Legacy: WUBRG Belcher
5 Color control, aggro and combo. Taste the Rainbow!
@buckjunt Love the Cyclonic Rift tech!
After today I'll be sideboarding two Slaughter Games.