The thing is that all of my enchants that are not ordeals are 1 drops. All the heroic triggers in this deck are good enough to be worth 1 or 2 mana. Even if the aura falls off or is countered it was worth a single mana to trip heroic. Auras that stay on are sort of win more. Ethereal armor is good at 1 mana for first strike and 1/1 boost. Plus it trips heroic so thats gonna be at least another 1/1.
The 3 mana drops in u/w are sort of win more. If you're counting on them to win you need to fix that.
You need to be building heroic triggers nlt turn 3.
Completely slipped my mind that Hopeful counts as an enchantment on the field, even as a creature, which makes it a much stronger play then I realized. A turn 2 3/3 first strike lifelink is defiantly nothing to sneeze at.
Makes me wonder tho, to comeback against midrange, would Auramancer be worth 2-3 slots? Makes you feel a little more OK to play a hopeful turn 1 if you have no other turn 1 plays, because you know after it dies you can bring it back to cast for bestow. Also recurs ordeals which are powerful, and allows you to get back Ethereal if they managed to kill the creature, or tow for one'd in response to you playing it.
I might try a list similar to yours, running 2-3 Auramancers, see how it do at FNM this week.
Not a bad idea. If you have a lot of midrange in you're meta consider some big finishers. Elspeth or atherling may work. Elspeth with a phalanx leader would be deadly.
@ Aoi
I would love to run fabled hero. But no one has any for trade and we have been out of theros for 2 weeks now. Prefer to spend my money at the lgs than big online stores.
I would love to run fabled hero. But no one has any for trade and we have been out of theros for 2 weeks now. Prefer to spend my money at the lgs than big online stores.
I see, that's a problem
Here where I live, many Fabled Hero were opened up like candies in halloween, and none seems to be playing heroic so, I had no problem on getting 12 Fabled Hero (4 for myself and other 2 sets for my cousins, playing WU and WR respectively). Maybe next week there will be more fableds to trade for, people is more focused on RDW, Big Red, Gruul Midrange and UW control right now.
Well then, here is a UR super beatdown deck, it can consistently kill on turn 3, while t4-t5 kills are usual if no wipe is present on board.
It works pretty simple, there are many ways to achieve this:
T1: Plains + Favored Hoplite
T2: Mountain + Madcap Skills, swing for 5
T3: Plains + Ethereal Armor, + Boros Charm, swing for 18 (or if he/she landburnt himself/herself, you can just make Boros Charm and Gods Willing and swing for 14 (thats 19 overall, if he burnt himself/herself with shockland, is gg)
or
T1: Plains
T2: Plains + Fencing Ace
T3: Plains + 3 Ethereal Armor, swing for 20 (sadly, no evasion on this one)
As you can see, the options don't require more than 3 specific cards, and basically all you need is Madcap Skills, Boros Charm and a creature, and none of them requires a Sacred Foundry in order to work (they just make it easier to achieve)
Would this deck have a chance? Just wondering
Right now at this moment I had to pay more for the commons and uncommons in my RDW deck than for the Dragons which I opened 2 of, and go another off ebay for 12$... Just hoping people start opening more packs soon. Some Daxos and Fabled Hero would be nice to trade for.
I am thinking I might test this at FNM this week. I may find that I prefer Spear of Heliod in the MB over Bident of Thassa. I do think this list needs card draw, and the Bident provides that, plus forcing their creatures to attack into blocks. However, giving +1/+1 buffs to all creatures as well as the ability to destroy creatures you let through for damage (goodbye Unflinching Smiter!) is really good. The Annuls in the SB are for the GW aggro decks to stop them from suiting up with Unflinching Courage. Let me know what you think.
I am thinking I might test this at FNM this week. I may find that I prefer Spear of Heliod in the MB over Bident of Thassa. I do think this list needs card draw, and the Bident provides that, plus forcing their creatures to attack into blocks. However, giving +1/+1 buffs to all creatures as well as the ability to destroy creatures you let through for damage (goodbye Unflinching Smiter!) is really good. The Annuls in the SB are for the GW aggro decks to stop them from suiting up with Unflinching Courage. Let me know what you think.
It seems pretty consistent and functional. Daxos for sure will mess up with people who just scried cards I will be expecting the FNM results
Added a "How heroic works?" paragraph, since it seems many persons are confused about how it works or when you trigger it.
The How Heroic Works? is actually very useful. I already knew that, but someone new will benefit greatly by remembering all of that. Even I forget some of the triggers and it's helpful to have it reinforced. It can be the difference between going 4-0 and 0-4.
Been messing around on MTGO, seems like Sphere of Safety might be worth ~2 mainboard slots in heavy aggro metas, or possibly sideboard. At least in enchantment heavy variants.
Many times, an early game Ordeal of Heliod put me out of kill range for my opponents, with a turn 5 Sphere of Safety with 1-2 other enchants out locked them down for good. And if they ever destroyed sphere, I'm running the 2 maindeck Auramancer to bring them back. Its done wonders vs RDW and even mirror match. There is a LOT of mirror match on MTGO right now lol, seems people are frantically trying to find the best heroic list.
Been messing around on MTGO, seems like Sphere of Safety might be worth ~2 mainboard slots in heavy aggro metas, or possibly sideboard. At least in enchantment heavy variants.
Many times, an early game Ordeal of Heliod put me out of kill range for my opponents, with a turn 5 Sphere of Safety with 1-2 other enchants out locked them down for good. And if they ever destroyed sphere, I'm running the 2 maindeck Auramancer to bring them back. Its done wonders vs RDW and even mirror match. There is a LOT of mirror match on MTGO right now lol, seems people are frantically trying to find the best heroic list.
That's true, didn't remember Sphere of Safety I will add it in utility cards, it is awesome in auras indeed. If you ask me, I could say that established heroics will be either WR or WU, WR is way faster and aggro, but WU has more consistency, thanks to Battlewise Hoplite. If I have to choose one from them, I would say it will be WR the dominant one.
Howdy folks. I've been on a bit of a break, but am back in the game. I'm looking at the U/W version of the deck, and taking a bit more of a Fish-Aggro take on it.
If you ask me, I could say that established heroics will be either WR or WU
Gonna have to disagree. I see some potential for a UB Control-based Heroics list as well, though currently I don't think much makes the cut in actual Heroic cards. More like over-abuse of Hidden Strings with Agent of the Fates, really. The next couple sets may bring us the Heroics for it, unless they plan on dropping Heroics past Theros. I haven't read anything to that effect yet, so here's hoping. From my skulking about on the forums and my own crawling through the entirety of the standard cardbase about 2-4 times, I would assume this would be a decent core:
And I'm still pretty unsure about the Thrill-kill Assassin, honestly. I do actually see some potential for fun with Tormented Hero, but I'm still kinda iffy on it, more so than I am about Thrill-kill to be honest. *shrugs* I have a list, but I'm gonna want to pilot it at my LGS before commenting much more on it.
Gonna have to disagree. I see some potential for a UB Control-based Heroics list as well, though currently I don't think much makes the cut in actual Heroic cards. More like over-abuse of Hidden Strings with Agent of the Fates, really.
Haven't seen, or thought about that until now. Defiantly could see the potential there. But like you said, it isn't really a heroic deck, rather a deck that happens to run a heroic.
Still with the coming sets, could defiantly be something to look out for.
Might play around with a list later on. Artisan of Forms could be a quirky include in a control based deck too. It really doesn't fit into an aggro list, but could be interesting to play one in a control list against GW tokens, anything with Boros Reckoner, and what have you. Hell, make it into another Agent of the Fates and go to town.
UB heroic has is own rythm, a totally different way to play indeed, more control-oriented. I really like those builds too, and one of our beta testing decks was UB, was pretty taste, a lot of removal ways and card advantage, but as you may expect, a slow start too (luckily, not so slow). Anyway, I go for WR, because is the fastest of all there, killing consistently on turn 3-4 is pretty fearsible, and more tools are awaiting in Born of the Gods, which will gives us, obviously, more heroes and more heroic enablers.
On the weekend, I will put a part in the primer with some of the decks you have placed in here, they can serve as more reference for other players as well
Howdy folks. I've been on a bit of a break, but am back in the game. I'm looking at the U/W version of the deck, and taking a bit more of a Fish-Aggro take on it.
I would say that I agree, lose triton hunter, just use soldier of pantheon, hopeful eidolon, or judges familiar.
Need 4 hidden strings
Need atleast 20 creatures.
Lose gridlock and voyages end.
Consider triton tactics, I think it's a very nice fit to your deck which is mostly instants. Aqueous form and ethereal armor on hopeful eidolon turn 2 is basically an instant win against most aggro and creature heavy midrange decks, if you have even one brave the elements or gods willing to protect the eidolon it's essentially game over. However that requires going more towards auras which might be a totally different style for you.
This deck is sick, good job Aoi and all of you.
So many decks I wanna build....
Good job guys, you really have developed some cool lists very fast.
What I'm playing online atm. So far, queuing up in just for fun, whenever I manage to hit a top tier deck, we always go game three, and almost always I take game one.
This list is methodical, you want to land a Daxos of Meletis asap, and if you cant, scry as hard as possible till you do. After he hits the board, his effect is huge. A lot of the time, the second game my enemies sees me land him, they just concede because they know how wrecked they got the first game. I don't know how you get much more cost effective then a 2/2 for 3 that has pseudo life link, that can deny your opponent its scries, and "draw" you a card every turn, with a strong soft evasion. I don't know how this card isn't priced higher then he is, makes me want to stock up on playsets until some pro tour breaks him and the world panics afterwords.
Btw, Hidden Strings. ****. I was playing it wrong before. Especially if you land a dax on the board, swing in, stack the triggers so Daxos resolves first to see what he exiled, then if you want to cast it, use hidden to untap your mana so you can, if not, trigger heroic, untap your attackers for vigilance, whatever. It really feels like it has Umezawa's Jitte quality utility, it almost always has a game changing use when you have a heroic or Daxos on the board.
Artisan of Forms has also proven to be better then Phalanx Leader in almost every situation. UW really feels like it has to play to midrange and control styles more then solid aggro, and once Artisan hits the board, you can tell your opponent holds back on what creatures they play, until they can remove him. This buys you all the time you need to setup a board presence, and eventually if they don't bother to play anything worthwhile, just become another Battlewise Hoplite and start scrying even harder to setup a hand that can deal with anything they throw at you.
I've been thinking something quite similar to this. I think the Bident is the call over the Spear, whilst an anthem is nice, this deck really shines with digging into more Triton Tactics and Hidden Strings. To that end, I've been enjoying using some Fate Fortold. Its less flashy, but replaces itself, activates heroic, and gives you gas if someone Verdicts.
For the creature package, I could not make a change, its pretty-much bang on mine!
Been quite amazed how good Heroic is. The UW plays out almost like a combo deck, Hidden Strings is brilliant, you can cipher it, untap, play something else, attack, then either untap and play again, or just hit heroic more. So consistent.
Not to knock the RW version, only played a couple of games, but Akroan Crusader plus Young Pyromancer does very pleasing things with Akroan Hoplite or Phalanx Leader.
I played this last night and went 1-3. I attribute it to mostly being a new deck that I hadn't tested. I played it mainly to test. I was a little discouraged, but after sleeping on it I feel this deck is still strong. I never got a Bident out. I did side in the Spear and got it out a couple of times. It was the difference, but I would like to see the Bident more often.
Round 1 was against UW Control. Supreme Verdict wrecked me, going 0-2. Round 2 was against a janky BR deck, going 1-2. Round 3 was a BG Dredge deck, going 0-2. Round 4 was a RG deck, going 2-1. I just need to play it more and figure out the lines of play better.
Personally? I think you ought to adjust your deck so that it doesn't have so many 4ofs. I'm always leery of too many full playsets, it's usually a good indicator of a deck that still needs some tuning. Play with it a bit, see what you like and what you don't. Increase numbers and decrease numbers based on what you WANT to see more often than not. *shrugs* The cards seem solid. The amounts? No idea. I would probably drop a Temple of Silence or two myself. CIPT is pretty bad with the kind of aggro these decks have, so you don't want too many.
Personally? I think you ought to adjust your deck so that it doesn't have so many 4ofs. I'm always leery of too many full playsets, it's usually a good indicator of a deck that still needs some tuning. Play with it a bit, see what you like and what you don't. Increase numbers and decrease numbers based on what you WANT to see more often than not. *shrugs* The cards seem solid. The amounts? No idea. I would probably drop a Temple of Silence or two myself. CIPT is pretty bad with the kind of aggro these decks have, so you don't want too many.
I'm gonna agree with what BiB said. Also I don't understand how you can take full advantage of phalanx with so few one drops. Even if you are trying to be more midrange you shouldn't have such a glut of heroic enablers at 3 cmc.
For creatures run only four slots at cmc 3. Get favored hoplite and have eight slots at both cmc 1 and 2.
Decide to either do auras and enchantments or instants, not both.
Decide to be mostly black or mostly white.
Try to do too many things and you won't be able to do any of them well.
If you are going to do slower midrange do all enchantments and do not be afraid to do 2 or 3 sphere or safety, ordeal or Heliod, hopeful eidolon, baleful eidolon and other auras as well.
I think it's pretty clear that there plenty of possibilities right now.
1) mono-white (listed in primer, is anyone using it?)
2) white-blue enchants (much like bant-enchant, either hyper or mid-range)
3) white-blue instants (tempo/Aggro)
4) white-red (anyone? Explosive? Consistent?)
5) white-Black (looks more mid-range)
I'm sticking with the U/W instants build for now. I prefer that sort of Aggro/tempo deck, though mine basically is running no removal.
Played the following list in an online standard 4 round swiss. Would have gone 3-1, but the client decided I didn't want to save my board and passed my priority.
Round 1: 1-2 Orzhov Control
Lost game 1. Had to mulligan to 5, still wasent a "great" hand, slow start, once I got something on the board he jsut shut it down and I was playing catchup all game. Still managed to take him to 7 before he had lethal.
Full sideboard for game 2-3;
Won game 2. Opening hand had a Gods Willing, Mizzium Skin and a Battlewise Hoplite. Just waited till turn 3 to play hoplite with protection, and the rest of the game scried into skins and gods to keep him on the board.
Lost game 3. Again opening hand had many protection spells and a Favored Hoplite this time, yet at the end, 1 turn before I swung lethal he Doom Bladed, and my client decided to not let me play any of the 3 skins I had in my hand. (I did not have any form of auto-yields on).
Round 2: 0-2 Orzhov Control
Lost game 1. Mulliganed to 4 before I saw a land, conceded the moment I saw his land base.
Full sideboard game 2;
Lost game 2. Again muliganed to 4 before I saw a land, but this time I had a favored, 2 gods and a plains. Took him down to 3 before he finally had lethal.
Round 3: 2-1 Esper Control
Won game 1. Swung lethal on turn 3. Opening hand had a favored, 2 Ethereal Armor and an Aqueous Form. Still pissed about round 1, I yolo'd 2 ethereal turn 2, swung 7. Turn 3 I drew another ethereal, and swung lethal turn 3 with a triple ethereal, aqueous hoplite.
Lost game 2. Didn't sideboard because I didn't make it back from the bathroom in time, lol. Still started out great, took 3 creatures before I had something stick on the board, eventually double ordeal'ed a Daxos with a bestow. I went up to 64 life, had him at 6. He verdict the board and I conceded. I could have probably won, but didn't want to waste the time.
Full sideboard game 3;
Won game 3. Judge's Familiar did the first 7 damage on its own, no auras. Eventually after my opponent did not play any creatures while I had a Artisan of Forms out, I copied my bird and starting swinging with 2 fliers. Eventually landed a second artisan, copied bird and kept going from there. lol
Round 4: 1-0 EDW
Won game 1. Turn 1 hoplite, turn 2 aqueous-ethreal, turn 3 ordeal of heliod into a ragequit. lol
All in all, I was happy with how the deck preformed. I did realize one thing tho, while I enjoy the power that Ethereal Armor, Ordeal of Heliod and Ordeal of Thassa provide, I was always sideboarding them out against any deck with targeted board control to put in my full protection package. Right now, the aura package probably really isn't worth it, its risky for the sake of being risky.
I may even mess around with a WUG version that utilizes Ranger's Guile as well (Maybe even Simic Charm? lol). When it comes to my draws, it feels like I almost always prefer some form of sport protection that triggers heroic, so why not run 12 mainboard? lol
Played the following list in an online standard 4 round swiss. Would have gone 3-1, but the client decided I didn't want to save my board and passed my priority.
Round 1: 1-2 Orzhov Control
Lost game 1. Had to mulligan to 5, still wasent a "great" hand, slow start, once I got something on the board he jsut shut it down and I was playing catchup all game. Still managed to take him to 7 before he had lethal.
Full sideboard for game 2-3;
Won game 2. Opening hand had a Gods Willing, Mizzium Skin and a Battlewise Hoplite. Just waited till turn 3 to play hoplite with protection, and the rest of the game scried into skins and gods to keep him on the board.
Lost game 3. Again opening hand had many protection spells and a Favored Hoplite this time, yet at the end, 1 turn before I swung lethal he Doom Bladed, and my client decided to not let me play any of the 3 skins I had in my hand. (I did not have any form of auto-yields on).
Round 2: 0-2 Orzhov Control
Lost game 1. Mulliganed to 4 before I saw a land, conceded the moment I saw his land base.
Full sideboard game 2;
Lost game 2. Again muliganed to 4 before I saw a land, but this time I had a favored, 2 gods and a plains. Took him down to 3 before he finally had lethal.
Round 3: 2-1 Esper Control
Won game 1. Swung lethal on turn 3. Opening hand had a favored, 2 Ethereal Armor and an Aqueous Form. Still pissed about round 1, I yolo'd 2 ethereal turn 2, swung 7. Turn 3 I drew another ethereal, and swung lethal turn 3 with a triple ethereal, aqueous hoplite.
Lost game 2. Didn't sideboard because I didn't make it back from the bathroom in time, lol. Still started out great, took 3 creatures before I had something stick on the board, eventually double ordeal'ed a Daxos with a bestow. I went up to 64 life, had him at 6. He verdict the board and I conceded. I could have probably won, but didn't want to waste the time.
Full sideboard game 3;
Won game 3. Judge's Familiar did the first 7 damage on its own, no auras. Eventually after my opponent did not play any creatures while I had a Artisan of Forms out, I copied my bird and starting swinging with 2 fliers. Eventually landed a second artisan, copied bird and kept going from there. lol
Round 4: 1-0 EDW
Won game 1. Turn 1 hoplite, turn 2 aqueous-ethreal, turn 3 ordeal of heliod into a ragequit. lol
All in all, I was happy with how the deck preformed. I did realize one thing tho, while I enjoy the power that Ethereal Armor, Ordeal of Heliod and Ordeal of Thassa provide, I was always sideboarding them out against any deck with targeted board control to put in my full protection package. Right now, the aura package probably really isn't worth it, its risky for the sake of being risky.
I may even mess around with a WUG version that utilizes Ranger's Guile as well (Maybe even Simic Charm? lol). When it comes to my draws, it feels like I almost always prefer some form of sport protection that triggers heroic, so why not run 12 mainboard? lol
Thinking of playing a similar deck but only changes would be a few Azorius Charm and 2x Biden of Thassa
I played around with bident. The active on it always felt useless unless I had a Triton Tactics in hand to trigger hoplites or allow my creatures to get big enough to survive a trade. And the draw power of it always felt like win more, because if you had 4 mana to play a spell in the first place, you probably should have stung lethal already or at least have been playing the control game at which point super scrying from aqueous, battlewise and gods willing already make each draw a great one, so more draws doesn't really mean better cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If it looks like a bug, sounds like a bug, and acts like a bug then it's probably working as intended.
I played around with bident. The active on it always felt useless unless I had a Triton Tactics in hand to trigger hoplites or allow my creatures to get big enough to survive a trade. And the draw power of it always felt like win more, because if you had 4 mana to play a spell in the first place, you probably should have stung lethal already or at least have been playing the control game at which point super scrying from aqueous, battlewise and gods willing already make each draw a great one, so more draws doesn't really mean better cards.
How do you all feel about Brave the Elements vs. Mizzium Skin? I feel like they are the 5th-8th copy of Gods Willing... I'm currently in favor of BtE despite the fact that it doesn't turn on heroic.
Completely slipped my mind that Hopeful counts as an enchantment on the field, even as a creature, which makes it a much stronger play then I realized. A turn 2 3/3 first strike lifelink is defiantly nothing to sneeze at.
Makes me wonder tho, to comeback against midrange, would Auramancer be worth 2-3 slots? Makes you feel a little more OK to play a hopeful turn 1 if you have no other turn 1 plays, because you know after it dies you can bring it back to cast for bestow. Also recurs ordeals which are powerful, and allows you to get back Ethereal if they managed to kill the creature, or tow for one'd in response to you playing it.
I might try a list similar to yours, running 2-3 Auramancers, see how it do at FNM this week.
@ Aoi
I would love to run fabled hero. But no one has any for trade and we have been out of theros for 2 weeks now. Prefer to spend my money at the lgs than big online stores.
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
I see, that's a problem
Here where I live, many Fabled Hero were opened up like candies in halloween, and none seems to be playing heroic so, I had no problem on getting 12 Fabled Hero (4 for myself and other 2 sets for my cousins, playing WU and WR respectively). Maybe next week there will be more fableds to trade for, people is more focused on RDW, Big Red, Gruul Midrange and UW control right now.
Well then, here is a UR super beatdown deck, it can consistently kill on turn 3, while t4-t5 kills are usual if no wipe is present on board.
4 Sacred Foundry
10 Plains
6 Mountain
Creatures(18)
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Dryad Militant
4 Hopeful Eidolon
2 Fencing Ace
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Madcap Skills
Spells(12)
4 Boros Charm
4 Gods Willing
2 Armed // Dangerous
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Titan's Strength
4 Brave the Elements
3 Burning Earth
It works pretty simple, there are many ways to achieve this:
T1: Plains + Favored Hoplite
T2: Mountain + Madcap Skills, swing for 5
T3: Plains + Ethereal Armor, + Boros Charm, swing for 18 (or if he/she landburnt himself/herself, you can just make Boros Charm and Gods Willing and swing for 14 (thats 19 overall, if he burnt himself/herself with shockland, is gg)
or
T1: Plains + Hopeful Eidolon
T2: Plains + Ethereal Armor + Ethereal Armor, swing for 7
T3: Mountain + Boros Charm, swing for 14 (you can use Gods Willing for unblockability and protection too.
or
T1: Plains + Soldier of the Pantheon/Dryad Militant
T2: Mountain + Madcap Skills, swing for 5
T3: Plains + Ethereal Armor + Boros Charm, swing for 14 (again, it works if he/she got a landburn)
or
T1: Plains
T2: Plains + Fencing Ace
T3: Plains + 3 Ethereal Armor, swing for 20 (sadly, no evasion on this one)
As you can see, the options don't require more than 3 specific cards, and basically all you need is Madcap Skills, Boros Charm and a creature, and none of them requires a Sacred Foundry in order to work (they just make it easier to achieve)
Would this deck have a chance? Just wondering
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Phalanx Leader
3 Daxos of Meletis
4 Fabled Hero
Spells (16)
2 Aqueos Form
3 Gods Willing
3 Triton Tactics
3 Hidden Strings
3 Dauntless Onslaught
2 Bident of Thassa
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
8 Plains
4 Annul
3 Imposing Sovereign
4 Banisher Priest
2 Spear of Heliod
2 Ætherize
I am thinking I might test this at FNM this week. I may find that I prefer Spear of Heliod in the MB over Bident of Thassa. I do think this list needs card draw, and the Bident provides that, plus forcing their creatures to attack into blocks. However, giving +1/+1 buffs to all creatures as well as the ability to destroy creatures you let through for damage (goodbye Unflinching Smiter!) is really good. The Annuls in the SB are for the GW aggro decks to stop them from suiting up with Unflinching Courage. Let me know what you think.
It seems pretty consistent and functional. Daxos for sure will mess up with people who just scried cards I will be expecting the FNM results
Added a "How heroic works?" paragraph, since it seems many persons are confused about how it works or when you trigger it.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
Many times, an early game Ordeal of Heliod put me out of kill range for my opponents, with a turn 5 Sphere of Safety with 1-2 other enchants out locked them down for good. And if they ever destroyed sphere, I'm running the 2 maindeck Auramancer to bring them back. Its done wonders vs RDW and even mirror match. There is a LOT of mirror match on MTGO right now lol, seems people are frantically trying to find the best heroic list.
Post Khans Naya Aggro
Cockatrice Tag: K1R1TO
That's why you use Aqueous Form as well, lol. Strings and battlewise are the sole reasons to play splashing blue IMO
That's true, didn't remember Sphere of Safety I will add it in utility cards, it is awesome in auras indeed. If you ask me, I could say that established heroics will be either WR or WU, WR is way faster and aggro, but WU has more consistency, thanks to Battlewise Hoplite. If I have to choose one from them, I would say it will be WR the dominant one.
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
Rate/discuss my decks :D(almost all formats)
Standard
Orzhov Voltron Superheroes
Modern
Infectors
Legacy
UGBack to Square OneGU
EDH
GWURafiq of the Many Wins (1vs1)UWG
Jarad's Turbo Suicidal Squad (Multiplayer)
Pauper
Are you Afraid of Ghosts? You Better Be!
4 Hallowed Fountain
5 island
9 Plains
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Phalanx Captain
4 Fabled Hero
2 Triton Fortune Hunter
4 Bioshift
4 Swift Justice
3 Hidden Strings
4 Voyage's End
4 Gridlock
What are your thoughts?
In this build, I think Dauntless Onslaught is too expensive. I'm not thrilled with Triton Fortune Hunter but tend to think that Artisan of Forms can be a worse draw more often. Triton Tactics will at least be in the sideboard, but I could see it MD if you expect lots of Aggro.
What are my chances at an unknown FNM?
Modern: Merfolk
Commander:Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Standard: Rabble/Dash Red
Gonna have to disagree. I see some potential for a UB Control-based Heroics list as well, though currently I don't think much makes the cut in actual Heroic cards. More like over-abuse of Hidden Strings with Agent of the Fates, really. The next couple sets may bring us the Heroics for it, unless they plan on dropping Heroics past Theros. I haven't read anything to that effect yet, so here's hoping. From my skulking about on the forums and my own crawling through the entirety of the standard cardbase about 2-4 times, I would assume this would be a decent core:
4x Agent of the Fates
4x Thrill-Kill Assassin
4x Hidden Strings
And I'm still pretty unsure about the Thrill-kill Assassin, honestly. I do actually see some potential for fun with Tormented Hero, but I'm still kinda iffy on it, more so than I am about Thrill-kill to be honest. *shrugs* I have a list, but I'm gonna want to pilot it at my LGS before commenting much more on it.
Is what I do.
Haven't seen, or thought about that until now. Defiantly could see the potential there. But like you said, it isn't really a heroic deck, rather a deck that happens to run a heroic.
Still with the coming sets, could defiantly be something to look out for.
Might play around with a list later on. Artisan of Forms could be a quirky include in a control based deck too. It really doesn't fit into an aggro list, but could be interesting to play one in a control list against GW tokens, anything with Boros Reckoner, and what have you. Hell, make it into another Agent of the Fates and go to town.
On the weekend, I will put a part in the primer with some of the decks you have placed in here, they can serve as more reference for other players as well
Weird Idea of the Month (Standard)
RGWNaya Token CommandoWGR
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I would say that I agree, lose triton hunter, just use soldier of pantheon, hopeful eidolon, or judges familiar.
Need 4 hidden strings
Need atleast 20 creatures.
Lose gridlock and voyages end.
Consider triton tactics, I think it's a very nice fit to your deck which is mostly instants. Aqueous form and ethereal armor on hopeful eidolon turn 2 is basically an instant win against most aggro and creature heavy midrange decks, if you have even one brave the elements or gods willing to protect the eidolon it's essentially game over. However that requires going more towards auras which might be a totally different style for you.
This deck is sick, good job Aoi and all of you.
So many decks I wanna build....
Good job guys, you really have developed some cool lists very fast.
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
7 Plains
7 Island
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
3 Aqueous Form
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Artisan of Forms
4 Hopeful Eidolon
3 Daxos of Meletis
4 Hidden Strings
4 Gods Willing
4 Deputy of Acquittals
3 Judge's Familiar
2 Celestial Flare
2 Blind Obedience
What I'm playing online atm. So far, queuing up in just for fun, whenever I manage to hit a top tier deck, we always go game three, and almost always I take game one.
This list is methodical, you want to land a Daxos of Meletis asap, and if you cant, scry as hard as possible till you do. After he hits the board, his effect is huge. A lot of the time, the second game my enemies sees me land him, they just concede because they know how wrecked they got the first game. I don't know how you get much more cost effective then a 2/2 for 3 that has pseudo life link, that can deny your opponent its scries, and "draw" you a card every turn, with a strong soft evasion. I don't know how this card isn't priced higher then he is, makes me want to stock up on playsets until some pro tour breaks him and the world panics afterwords.
Btw, Hidden Strings. ****. I was playing it wrong before. Especially if you land a dax on the board, swing in, stack the triggers so Daxos resolves first to see what he exiled, then if you want to cast it, use hidden to untap your mana so you can, if not, trigger heroic, untap your attackers for vigilance, whatever. It really feels like it has Umezawa's Jitte quality utility, it almost always has a game changing use when you have a heroic or Daxos on the board.
Artisan of Forms has also proven to be better then Phalanx Leader in almost every situation. UW really feels like it has to play to midrange and control styles more then solid aggro, and once Artisan hits the board, you can tell your opponent holds back on what creatures they play, until they can remove him. This buys you all the time you need to setup a board presence, and eventually if they don't bother to play anything worthwhile, just become another Battlewise Hoplite and start scrying even harder to setup a hand that can deal with anything they throw at you.
I played this last night and went 1-3. I attribute it to mostly being a new deck that I hadn't tested. I played it mainly to test. I was a little discouraged, but after sleeping on it I feel this deck is still strong. I never got a Bident out. I did side in the Spear and got it out a couple of times. It was the difference, but I would like to see the Bident more often.
Round 1 was against UW Control. Supreme Verdict wrecked me, going 0-2. Round 2 was against a janky BR deck, going 1-2. Round 3 was a BG Dredge deck, going 0-2. Round 4 was a RG deck, going 2-1. I just need to play it more and figure out the lines of play better.
This is the current deck I'm running.
It's a slower meta in my area.
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
7 Plains
6 Swamp
4 Fabled Hero
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Boon of Erebos
4 Orzhov Charm
4 Scourgemark
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Gift of Orzhova
Personally? I think you ought to adjust your deck so that it doesn't have so many 4ofs. I'm always leery of too many full playsets, it's usually a good indicator of a deck that still needs some tuning. Play with it a bit, see what you like and what you don't. Increase numbers and decrease numbers based on what you WANT to see more often than not. *shrugs* The cards seem solid. The amounts? No idea. I would probably drop a Temple of Silence or two myself. CIPT is pretty bad with the kind of aggro these decks have, so you don't want too many.
Is what I do.
I'm gonna agree with what BiB said. Also I don't understand how you can take full advantage of phalanx with so few one drops. Even if you are trying to be more midrange you shouldn't have such a glut of heroic enablers at 3 cmc.
For creatures run only four slots at cmc 3. Get favored hoplite and have eight slots at both cmc 1 and 2.
Decide to either do auras and enchantments or instants, not both.
Decide to be mostly black or mostly white.
Try to do too many things and you won't be able to do any of them well.
If you are going to do slower midrange do all enchantments and do not be afraid to do 2 or 3 sphere or safety, ordeal or Heliod, hopeful eidolon, baleful eidolon and other auras as well.
I think it's pretty clear that there plenty of possibilities right now.
1) mono-white (listed in primer, is anyone using it?)
2) white-blue enchants (much like bant-enchant, either hyper or mid-range)
3) white-blue instants (tempo/Aggro)
4) white-red (anyone? Explosive? Consistent?)
5) white-Black (looks more mid-range)
I'm sticking with the U/W instants build for now. I prefer that sort of Aggro/tempo deck, though mine basically is running no removal.
4 Hallowed Fountain
5 island
9 Plains
4 favored Hoplite
4 Artisan of Forms
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Fabled Hero
4 Hidden Strings
3 Triton Tactics
3 Bioshift
3 Swift Justice
3 Gridlock
I really like Gridlock in the deck. I appreciate it's versatility for alpha-striking, hero-enabling, etc.
I was keeping Triton Tactics in the side, but given that I have more Aggro decks near my to deal with, it makes more sense in the main.
I also really like Dax....just not sure where to put him.
Modern: Merfolk
Commander:Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Standard: Rabble/Dash Red
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Ordeal of Heliod
4 Ordeal of Thassa
3 Aqueous Form
Creatures: 19
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Hopeful Eidolon
4 Artisan of Forms
3 Daxos of Meletis
4 Hidden Strings
Lands: 22
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
8 Plains
6 Island
4 Gods Willing
4 Mizzium Skin
4 Judge's Familiar
2 Triton Tactics
1 Aqueous Form
Lost game 1. Had to mulligan to 5, still wasent a "great" hand, slow start, once I got something on the board he jsut shut it down and I was playing catchup all game. Still managed to take him to 7 before he had lethal.
Full sideboard for game 2-3;
Won game 2. Opening hand had a Gods Willing, Mizzium Skin and a Battlewise Hoplite. Just waited till turn 3 to play hoplite with protection, and the rest of the game scried into skins and gods to keep him on the board.
Lost game 3. Again opening hand had many protection spells and a Favored Hoplite this time, yet at the end, 1 turn before I swung lethal he Doom Bladed, and my client decided to not let me play any of the 3 skins I had in my hand. (I did not have any form of auto-yields on).
Round 2: 0-2 Orzhov Control
Lost game 1. Mulliganed to 4 before I saw a land, conceded the moment I saw his land base.
Full sideboard game 2;
Lost game 2. Again muliganed to 4 before I saw a land, but this time I had a favored, 2 gods and a plains. Took him down to 3 before he finally had lethal.
Round 3: 2-1 Esper Control
Won game 1. Swung lethal on turn 3. Opening hand had a favored, 2 Ethereal Armor and an Aqueous Form. Still pissed about round 1, I yolo'd 2 ethereal turn 2, swung 7. Turn 3 I drew another ethereal, and swung lethal turn 3 with a triple ethereal, aqueous hoplite.
Lost game 2. Didn't sideboard because I didn't make it back from the bathroom in time, lol. Still started out great, took 3 creatures before I had something stick on the board, eventually double ordeal'ed a Daxos with a bestow. I went up to 64 life, had him at 6. He verdict the board and I conceded. I could have probably won, but didn't want to waste the time.
Full sideboard game 3;
Won game 3. Judge's Familiar did the first 7 damage on its own, no auras. Eventually after my opponent did not play any creatures while I had a Artisan of Forms out, I copied my bird and starting swinging with 2 fliers. Eventually landed a second artisan, copied bird and kept going from there. lol
Round 4: 1-0 EDW
Won game 1. Turn 1 hoplite, turn 2 aqueous-ethreal, turn 3 ordeal of heliod into a ragequit. lol
All in all, I was happy with how the deck preformed. I did realize one thing tho, while I enjoy the power that Ethereal Armor, Ordeal of Heliod and Ordeal of Thassa provide, I was always sideboarding them out against any deck with targeted board control to put in my full protection package. Right now, the aura package probably really isn't worth it, its risky for the sake of being risky.
Going forward, I'll probably just mainboard 4 Gods Willing, 4 Mizzium Skin and 2-4 Judge's Familiar. Its a MUCH slower game, but at least I'll have creatures.
I may even mess around with a WUG version that utilizes Ranger's Guile as well (Maybe even Simic Charm? lol). When it comes to my draws, it feels like I almost always prefer some form of sport protection that triggers heroic, so why not run 12 mainboard? lol
Having both blue and green in a heroic list also opens us up for fun stuff like Zameck Guildmage and Vorel of the Hull Clade.
Thinking of playing a similar deck but only changes would be a few Azorius Charm and 2x Biden of Thassa
I played around with bident. The active on it always felt useless unless I had a Triton Tactics in hand to trigger hoplites or allow my creatures to get big enough to survive a trade. And the draw power of it always felt like win more, because if you had 4 mana to play a spell in the first place, you probably should have stung lethal already or at least have been playing the control game at which point super scrying from aqueous, battlewise and gods willing already make each draw a great one, so more draws doesn't really mean better cards.
How do you all feel about Brave the Elements vs. Mizzium Skin? I feel like they are the 5th-8th copy of Gods Willing... I'm currently in favor of BtE despite the fact that it doesn't turn on heroic.
I agree on the Bident. Here's my current list:
4 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
10 Plains
4 Favored Hoplite
4 Phalanx Leader
4 Battlewise Hoplite
4 Fabled Hero
2 Daxos of Meletis
4 Gods Willing
3 Brave the Elements
3 Bioshift
3 Swift Justice
3 Triton Tactics
2 Dauntless Onslaught
2 Pithing Needle
3 Protect/Serve
2 Mizzium Skin
4 Negate
4 Dissolve
I'm toying with the counters from the board...so far, meh.
I'm also very interested at what a U/G midrange build would look like.
Modern: Merfolk
Commander:Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Standard: Rabble/Dash Red