Theros rotation for Dimir Control

  • #1
    If only i can change the thread title.... Its so misleading.

    So, finally Theros gets better spells than Return to Ravnica and Innistrad. I prefer UR control but the absence of Sulfur falls just..

    Box standard controlMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Watery grave
    4 Temple of deceit
    8 Island
    7 Swamp
    1 Dimir guildgate

    4 Omenspeaker
    3 Desecration demon
    2 Aetherling
    3 Lazav Dimir Mastermind

    2 Jace memory adept

    3 Swan song
    2 Dissolve
    4 Doom blade
    3 Heroes' downfall
    3 Curse of the swine
    3 Read the bones
    4 Thoughtseize



    Omenspeaker - For scrying and that 1/3 makes a good blocker.
    Desecration demon - For getting that damage through. Comes in, combat, if opponent sacrifices a creature, it gets bigger for you to whack when your opponent has no creatures.
    Thassa, God of the sea - To scry those lands you dont need.
    Prognostic Sphinx - Flier, hexproof, scrying. One is probably enough.
    Aetherling - Aetherling.
    Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Uhm 0 loyalty ability for Memory adept, oh you milled a Archangel of thune. Copy and combat. Oh it has hexproof as well.

    Ashiok - Aside from the name that means "Feeling good" in a Chinese dialect, not a fantastic card but still gets the job done. For now. Or till we really find that she is as effing useless as what everyone else says.
    Jace - Draw, Mil.

    Swan song , Dissolve - Box standard counter spell
    Doom blade , Hero's downfall - Box standard destroy spell
    Curse of the swine - Boros reckoner, pig. God, pig. Anything that doesnt have hexproof is bacon.
    Thoughtseize - Discard those pesky non-land cards. Your opponent doesnt need them. Oh and discard that creature, Lazav copies it.
    Read the bones - Box standard draw spell.

    Changelog

    18/9/13 - Removed 1 Thassa and 1 Prognostic sphinx. Added 2 Nightveil specter
    18/9/13 - Removed Ashiok, Nightveil specter, 1 hero's downfall. Added 1 cure of the swine, 1 doom blade, 1 Lazav, 1 desecration demon, 1 thoughtseize.


    Box standard UB MilMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4 Watery grave
    4 Temple of deceit
    8 Island
    7 Swamp
    1 Dimir guildgate

    2 Aetherling
    2 Lazav Dimir Mastermind

    2 Ashiok, Nightmare weaver
    3 Jace memory adept

    4 Psychic strike
    4 Breaking // Entering
    3 Curse of the swine
    2 Mind grind
    4 Pilfered plans
    4 Tome scour
    4 Doom blade
    2 Hero's downfall




    So yeah.
    Last edited by Ensoleille: 9/18/2013 9:02:29 AM
    Quote from Maokun
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  • #2
    I've been playing a lot of Dimir over the last two weeks, trying to get some lists off the ground. It's been a little challenging. We're lacking one or two cards that would put us in a real competitive position.

    That being said, the list I've got as of right now (9/16/2013) is as follows:

    Thoras's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    2x Doom Blade
    3x Essence Scatter
    3x Hero's Downfall
    2x Swan Song
    2x Warped Physique

    Creature (15)
    3x Duskmantle Seer
    2x Master of Waves
    4x Nightveil Specter
    4x Omenspeaker
    2x Thassa, God of the Sea

    Land (25)
    9x Island
    2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
    6x Swamp
    4x Temple of Deceit
    4x Watery Grave

    Enchantment (4)
    2x Claustrophobia
    2x Thassa, God of the Sea

    Sorcery (3)
    3x Read the Bones

    Planeswalker (3)
    3x Jace, Architect of Thought



    The deck can take wins off of any deck, and I've played pretty much every archetype. I obviously dropped the mill aspect, as it isn't really my type of Magic. I've played somewhere around 30 matches with this deck already, making changes between games. Some things about the deck that might convince you to try it out:

    Nightveil Specter: this card is insane. The 3 devotion it gives is incredible for getting a Thassa out (or if you bring Erebos in against a heavy lifegain opponent) is unmatched. You can play a turn 2 Omenspeaker, a turn 3 Specter, then a turn 4 Thassa be a 5/5.

    Thassa, God of the Sea: easily made a creature in this deck. The unblockable is very important because this deck will stall out the battlefield while with some draw-go until your opponent draws something nasty off of Duskmantle Seer's Upkeep trigger, and you can swing in for the win with no interaction from them.

    Master of Waves: beats red decks. if he resolves and you're getting more than 3-4 elementals they have to deal with him the next turn or they just lose. Pretty sweet card also to deal with a red deck swarm if you can drop it after at nightveil and get 5 blockers for their next combat

    Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx: I was going to use this guy or Mutavault (obvious synergy with Master of Waves) but I found that having Nykthos out with the easy devotion this deck can get can lead to allowing us to get a much better board state in some situations. Obviously Nykthos is very situational, it's still being thought over.

    The deck is really fun and I enjoy it a lot. I feel like the deck has a lot of room for allowing you to outplay your opponent, and the more I play with it the better I get. I feel like this can be competitive, but it wont ever compete with real Tier 1 decks. But I'll play it anyways.
    STANDARD DECKS


  • #3
    Oh wow, i never really thought about Nightveil specter and Thassa.

    Master of waves is a very "eh" card. Completely situational. If you bring nightveil specter into the picture, makes it not that "eh".
    Quote from Maokun
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  • #4
    I played a dimir control deck just recently in FNM and yes, the Nightveil Specter got people cursing it after I got their best spell and their lands to play. They don't expect decks like these with cards like these as everyone was expecting tier 1 decks.

    The only creature I had was Specter, Vampire Nighthawk(rotates out), Deathrite Shaman, Consuming Aberration, Desecration Demon and the Augur of Bolas.

    The rest are either kill spells (mutilate, sac, destroy) or bounce. It was annoying to most of the decks that they can't seem to have any creature to put out. Any card draws were instead countered.
    Rules Advisor (January 2012)
  • #5
    Hmmm, seems like nightveil specter is a really underused card but a really powerful card. Nodding the Affirmative
    Quote from Maokun
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  • #6
    Here's a strictly silly Dimir Control deck I made the other day:

    License to IllnessMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land (21)
    4 Watery Grave
    4 Temple of Deceit
    8 Island
    5 Swamp

    Creature (5)
    4 Omenspeaker
    1 Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker

    Instant (20)
    4 Curse of the Swine
    3 Cyclonic Rift
    2 Dissolve
    4 Swan song
    4 Thoughtseize
    1 Syncopate

    Sorcery (4)
    4 Mind Grind

    Enchantment (4)
    4 Illness in the Ranks

    Artifact (4)
    4 Ratchet Bomb

    Planeswalker (4)
    2 Jace, Memory adept
    2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver



    The goal is to turn all of your opponent's threats into terminally ill animals. Get out 2 Illness in the Ranks and they'll have a hard time casting anything thanks to Swan Song and Curse of the Swine.

    Ratchet Bomb and Cyclonic Rift clear counters when you can't find Illness. Dissolve, Syncopate and the obligatory Thoughtseize help stall. Omenspeaker is a wall.

    Milling is the win con, basically just to be different. You have enough stalling power to hold up the game for a long time while you build up huge Mind Grinds, tick up Jace, or dig for bombs with Ashiok. You might even get to connect with Mirko Vosk for the first time in your life... but probably not.

    My minimal Cockatrice testing suggests this deck is good at annoying people for 12 turns until they finally beat you. But it all feels worthwhile when you turn Niv Mizzet into a sick pig that promptly dies.
    Last edited by CaptElephant: 9/18/2013 11:11:29 PM
  • #7
    Someone did connect mirko vosk in an edh and my god was that annoying. It does look like a solid list though.
    Quote from Maokun
    I see, here you go, an empty can of the precious metal called tin, it s very valuable. Oh don't mind those words, "tuna" means er, God's gift in my language.
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  • #8
    don't forget rapid hybridization for more token shenanigans.
  • #9
    Quote from LonelyPenguin
    don't forget rapid hybridization for more token shenanigans.


    More of a sideboard card. Cant frogify a god.
    Quote from Maokun
    I see, here you go, an empty can of the precious metal called tin, it s very valuable. Oh don't mind those words, "tuna" means er, God's gift in my language.
    Quote from Thought Criminal
    Plain Yogurt 2WW
    Sorcery {U, Un-set}
    Destroy target creature with flavor text. If its flavor text is funny, exile that creature instead.

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  • #10
    Quote from LonelyPenguin
    don't forget rapid hybridization for more token shenanigans.


    I tried it, but giving away 3/3s is a bit much. Rapid Hybridization's strength is that its a combat trick at least as often as its removal. But you dont want to be giving yourself tokens with this deck. It just didn't fit, even though superficially I agree it looks perfect.

    Shame, because turning Rakdos into a barfing frog mutant is a thing I want to do.
  • #11
    I like the changes to the OP control deck Ensoleille. I'm curious about the 3x Lazav. He's neat but I've had no luck getting him to trigger reliably in past testing (pre-Theros).

    At best he seems like an alternate wincon for a focused mill deck, but yours doesn't have much milling power (rightly so, imo, since milling doesn't seem effective at all compared to dropping an Aetherling).

    How has Lazav worked out for you so far?
  • #12
    Hopefully this doesn't count as hijacking your thread, but I've got a related but dissimilar approach to Theros-standard Dimir control. I've been out of tourney-level play for some years, so would love any constructive feedback.

    Oriented towards early board & tempo control and no mill at all.
    Use early disruption/killers (16 useable by T2), then drops Ashiok, or Nightveil on T3, followed by either the standard Desecration Demon on T4 or two 2cc control spells. Then just need to maintain pressure, which Thassa helps maintain.

    Nadir's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures:
    4 Desecration Demon
    4 Nightveil Specter
    2 Thassa, God of the Sea

    Planeswalkers:
    4 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
    1 Jace, Architect of Thought

    Spells:
    4 Dimir Charm
    3 Devour Flesh
    4 Thoughseize
    4 Far // Away
    4 Hero's Downfall
    1 Cyclonic Rift

    Artifacts:
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Glaring Spotlight

    Lands:
    4 Watery Grave
    2 Temple of Deceit
    2 Unknown Shores
    1 Nykthos, Shrine of Nix
    1 Steam Vents
    7 Island
    6 Swamp




    Thassa's activated ability is relevant - ups the threat level of the Nightveil, Demon or borrowed threat immensely. Control can't let them both live -

    As Thoras mentioned, Nightveil is actually pretty insane. I'm still debating when to take him out... he dies instantly when he hits the board against burn but 3-4 less damage to my dome or Ashiok's is worst case.

    Ashiok is a must counter/must kill. Midrange B/W, RBW Mythic or UW control midrange all HAVE to counter or kill it before it activates the second time. Exiling an Ebzedat, BBOV, Prognistic Sphinx on T3 is a serious threat. Not to mention they only run a few, big hitters, enough of those gone and it's game. Her Ultimate really should never come into play unless they are doing some turbo-fog variant.

    The Downfalls are intended to be saved for PW if possible - being able to kill a PW before it uses it's ability is huge.

    I expect that people will say the Shores and Nykthos are "cute" - but being able to play those spells or activate the abilities turns cute into seriously annoying threat. I'm considering running an extra Steam Vents and Sacred Foundry to be able to add CttR to the list of steal-ables.

    The one-of that I expect to get some flack is Glaring Spotlight - but having it in play changes the face of the board. Significantly. I want to run 2, but... yeah.

    What is definitely missing is draw - but anything that costs life is unbearable against true agro. Side Erebos in vs control, B/W or Midrange mythic though.

    As for Dimir Charm - all three of it's uses are valid. If nothing else, setting up their next draw to what I want them to have is always useful. Not to mention the bonus instant-speed choosing what I'm going to exile with either a Specter or Ashiok.

    I tried Time Ebb and Griptide - And while I truly enjoyed bouncing a Purphoros, exiling him and then playing him, they don't measure up at the cc to the more flexible options.

    Oddly enough, the single biggest problem card I've had so far is Heliod's Spear. Few enough threats in my deck that I can stall if each only hits them once. Spotlight solves that for a big swing, but otherwise I have to Rift or Ratchet it.

    Thoughts?
  • #13
    For the record, I don't believe in both Thassa and Ashiok in the same deck.

    If you have Ashiok in play, you don't need Thassa because your opponents should then be on the offense, preventing Ashiok from being a threat. You don't need unblockability if your opponent is turning creatures sideways.

    I've become a great fan of Omenspeaker with Ashiok. Sure Frostburn makes for a better blocker, but Omenspeaker regulates your draws, helping ensure you get that turn 3 Ashiok for your defensive strategy.
    Bringing Turbo-Hydra back to Standard...
    :symg::symr::symb: Domri Jund
  • #14
    http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/898971

    Here's my UB Control decklist. Yea, not very much out of Theros, but still very effective.
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