RDW hurts itself too much from Anger, particularly in this matchup. Electrickery only hits about 1/3 of the creatures which makes a 2 for 1 seem unappealing. You're welcome to try it but I don't think it'll be effective.
Electrickery and Mizzium Mortars seem like the best options for most RDW builds, as they also do good work against other decks. Mizzium is only great if you can overload it, while Electrickery is only really good against their tokens, not much else. Wiping their tokens and trying to ignore the Master himself isn't the best solution, but 60% of the time it works every time. Ratchet Bomb seems like a good 1-2 of as a hedge against other decks with problem permanents (enchantments, Caryatids, G/W Tokens, etc.), and it lets you blow up the Master itself if you have the time/patience to tick up to 4.
Skullcrack into another removal spell seems pretty bad, as you are trading 2 cards for 1, and it's not like you are guaranteed to have both when you need them. It works, but you're jumping through a lot of hoops to get there.
Anger of the Gods is probably the strongest card against that whole deck, with a few Mizziums to clean up the Frostburn Weirds. But most versions of RDW aren't very resilient to Anger of Gods in their own deck, so that's probably only a solution for Red Devotion and big Red decks.
In my opinion though, the best solution to Master of Waves and other beastly menaces is Chained to the Rocks. Splashing white isn't an option for everyone, but I think it's worth considering in the more midrangey Red decks. Assemble the Legion, Wear/Tear, and Boros Charm are also great options, and are easily splashed off the 8 duals. (well maybe not Boros Charm, but it's not necessary).
It's very fine tuned now, going 25-4 in events on MODO this week, with a notable 14-1 vs MBC. For example, I've played enough in the last two weeks to know the 3-1 split of shock/mortars was better than 4-0 that's more standard; or 1-1 burning earth/hammer of Purphoros is better ('Earth also wrecks Naya, Grixis and Dega).
YMMV offline, the GR Monstrous matchup isn't good, but the deck is unpopular online on account of all the MBC / Esper.
Post board versus red, I assume 8th card is the hammer as a finisher since you should have that on lockdown with 4 mortar/3 flames?
@zem: Have you tested Anger of the Gods against the G/R matchup at all? Seems like if they can be kept off of their mana/devotion dorks and Voyaging Satyr they are slowed down considerably.
@zem: Have you tested Anger of the Gods against the G/R matchup at all? Seems like if they can be kept off of their mana/devotion dorks and Voyaging Satyr they are slowed down considerably.
Playing Anger seems like it would slow both decks down. I'm having trouble seeing how that ends well for the RDW player.
Why would I? It's going to hurt me as much as them unless I just do nothing for a few turns, in which case I need to burn their creatures anyway...the card is awful in RDW.
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This is the deck that I'm on right now.
I admit that its R/g but ultimately its still rdw. I Started with it last season and twinked starting with saito's old list. I find it works really well for me, and I only add it to the conversation because there's a lot of talk about "Master of waves" and this deck goes Under/Through that card.
Madcap skills tends to obviate early blockers along with Rampager (who also helps you finish) and out of the side I run seismic stomp... which.. I'd love to be better, heck it could be gruul charm except that I'm skimping on lands so... yeah.
This version of the deck just wants to get through, and it actually does it pretty handily, most of the time.
I should likely prolly do the right thing and drop 1 chain-walker and add 1 mutavault or something... I don't know. All in all though I really enjoy it and it gets there more often than not.
Madcap skills is a card that really should be run right now I think. Despite the fact that some people are playing removal.dec It really obviates the turn they play their "Blocker" and can turn thinks like firedrinker statyr into world class threats. Especially when paired with emissary, I'm been away from my red bros' for a while in isolation so I might be working backwards... I don't know.
Thoughts?
Either run like 14 1 drop's or go up some lands. Don't be scared of the full set of Satyr. There's an all in deck far earlier in this thread with the full 12 naya shocks and some basics if that's what you want.
You also can't reliably cast ash zealot on 15 red.
Really, just add some lands. The forests can be scry lands if need be or something.
man ran RDW today and got demolished :C
round 1 bye
round 2 mono white 2-0 (he kept a 1 lander game 1)
round 3 junk 1-2 (really unlucky, and that's my opponets words)
round 4 monoblue 1-2 (there were like 2 out of 25)
round 5 rakdos aggro 0-2 (bad draws+he drew well. a mix of black and red, not a splash)
thinking of changing my deck to this
man ran RDW today and got demolished :C
round 1 bye
round 2 mono white 2-0 (he kept a 1 lander game 1)
round 3 junk 1-2 (really unlucky, and that's my opponets words)
round 4 monoblue 1-2 (there were like 2 out of 25)
round 5 rakdos aggro 0-2 (bad draws+he drew well. a mix of black and red, not a splash)
thinking of changing my deck to this
not sure how to sideboard, since i've only played it today. tips and advice apreciated
also thoughts on mindsparker?
Where are your lands? A nonzero number of them should be Mutavault. If you don't have it, you'll lose to players who do.
Zem is correct, Mindsparker just isn't good.
I think your curve is a bit too high. Definitely play eight one-drops in this deck, fewer (if any) Fanatic, and possibly exchange some three-drops for two-drops as well.
Flames of the Firebrand should be in your board against red or white aggro decks, possibly against the blue deck as well.
It's very fine tuned now, going 25-4 in events on MODO this week, with a notable 14-1 vs MBC. For example, I've played enough in the last two weeks to know the 3-1 split of shock/mortars was better than 4-0 that's more standard; or 1-1 burning earth/hammer of Purphoros is better ('Earth also wrecks Naya, Grixis and Dega).
YMMV offline, the GR Monstrous matchup isn't good, but the deck is unpopular online on account of all the MBC / Esper.
I'm curious as to why you aren't running Ash Zealot? Patrick sulivan's list that was posted on starcitygames.com didn't run zealot either. Am I missing something?
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It's very fine tuned now, going 25-4 in events on MODO this week, with a notable 14-1 vs MBC. For example, I've played enough in the last two weeks to know the 3-1 split of shock/mortars was better than 4-0 that's more standard; or 1-1 burning earth/hammer of Purphoros is better ('Earth also wrecks Naya, Grixis and Dega).
YMMV offline, the GR Monstrous matchup isn't good, but the deck is unpopular online on account of all the MBC / Esper.
Out of curiosity, what got you off the Ash Zealot plan and onto BTE? The results speak for themselves, but I would think that Ash Zealot would be the more natural choice especially when you're not on the devotion plan at all.
RE: scrylands. No, they're amazing. I like them a lot and I know that after talking to Michael Jacob that's he's a huge fan as well.
Consistency > explosiveness
Also I've tested the hell out of them and loved them.
RE: Flames of the Firebrand. What Rujasu said. It's not an exciting card (it's not Arc Trail), but it's very well positioned, so it's contextually very powerful.
RE: Ash Zealot. I've already done a full explanation over at DTR, so suffice it to say, Ash Zealot is better when matchups are predicated on attacking and blocking (interactive creature combat) whereas now it's more of a racing meta. Also, if/when you play the deck you'll find that it's absurdly mana hungry and the free mana really helps you mobilise your resources faster.
Basically, sometimes it's better to have card quality; but right now, many of the top decks are very weak to 1 drop into BTE + FFS backed up my Mutavaults and burn.
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Also, if/when you play the deck you'll find that it's absurdly mana hungry and the free mana really helps you mobilise your resources faster.
Speaking of which, I tried out one of your earlier lists and found myself getting screwed on lands quite often. I think it may want 23 lands even if it is only running two 4 drops. For a deck with an average cost of around 2 it still really does want to hit its first 4 or so land drops pretty much every game (at least that's what I found over a few DEs and handful of practice games). I'm going to take your current version into the MOCS prelim tomorrow though since it actually is well built unlike pretty much any of the other lists that I've looked at (the average list seems to be running Boros Reckoner with only 19 mountains :thumbsdown:).
Mindsparker sucks even against the decks where he is meant to be good.
So much this^
I used to have it my board, and upon further consideration I realized that at not point did I want the darn thing. If his first strike was haste instead he'd be a shoe-in, but in his current form, just no. The rest of the cycle is just better.
This was a side event at a sealed PTQ in Wichita, KS. It was really fun, even with people talking mad **** on RDW (what else is new?)
I lost round 3 game 3 literally one turn behind. Had I been on the play, or had another body on board, or another burn spell... literally anything besides the land I had drawn I would have won the round. I had 10 damage on board with a Lightning Strike in hand and an Unflinching Courage on a Loxodon Smiter was able to stall long enough until he drew another Courage. Otherwise I would say RDW performed once again magnificantly in a meta that played bigger and better creatures. The key to the deck is knowing when to turn them sideways, when to trade, and what to use your burn spells on. Oh, and the always well-timed Goblin Shortcutter
Speaking of which, I tried out one of your earlier lists and found myself getting screwed on lands quite often. I think it may want 23 lands even if it is only running two 4 drops. For a deck with an average cost of around 2 it still really does want to hit its first 4 or so land drops pretty much every game (at least that's what I found over a few DEs and handful of practice games). I'm going to take your current version into the MOCS prelim tomorrow though since it actually is well built unlike pretty much any of the other lists that I've looked at (the average list seems to be running Boros Reckoner with only 19 mountains :thumbsdown:).
Just to update, I went 4-2 in the prelim (good enough for another promo Scrubland, not good enough to qualify for the MOCS sadly) IIRC faced:
R1: W 2-0 vs Boros Devotion (should be a pretty poor matchup but he had bad draws both games)
R2: W 2-0 vs Black Devotion
R3: W 2-0 vs Black Devotion (this deck seems pretty easy to beat provided they don't go removal-removal-desecration demon)
R4: L 0-2 vs Boros Devotion (got crushed this time as I would expect)
R5: W 2-1 vs Esper Control
R6: L 1-2 vs B/W midrange (Fiendslayer Paladin + a steady stream of removal wrecked me after board)
Then played a daily later that day going 3-1 beating UW control and two mirror matches while getting my lunch money stolen by another Boros Devotion deck. This deck is very soft to an early Boros Reckoner (or as was the case in this matchup 2 in each game) with a lot of its draws but overall I've been liking it.
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http://diestoremoval.com/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=1912
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Only if you play it incorrectly
Electrickery and Mizzium Mortars seem like the best options for most RDW builds, as they also do good work against other decks. Mizzium is only great if you can overload it, while Electrickery is only really good against their tokens, not much else. Wiping their tokens and trying to ignore the Master himself isn't the best solution, but 60% of the time it works every time. Ratchet Bomb seems like a good 1-2 of as a hedge against other decks with problem permanents (enchantments, Caryatids, G/W Tokens, etc.), and it lets you blow up the Master itself if you have the time/patience to tick up to 4.
Skullcrack into another removal spell seems pretty bad, as you are trading 2 cards for 1, and it's not like you are guaranteed to have both when you need them. It works, but you're jumping through a lot of hoops to get there.
Anger of the Gods is probably the strongest card against that whole deck, with a few Mizziums to clean up the Frostburn Weirds. But most versions of RDW aren't very resilient to Anger of Gods in their own deck, so that's probably only a solution for Red Devotion and big Red decks.
In my opinion though, the best solution to Master of Waves and other beastly menaces is Chained to the Rocks. Splashing white isn't an option for everyone, but I think it's worth considering in the more midrangey Red decks. Assemble the Legion, Wear/Tear, and Boros Charm are also great options, and are easily splashed off the 8 duals. (well maybe not Boros Charm, but it's not necessary).
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Post board versus red, I assume 8th card is the hammer as a finisher since you should have that on lockdown with 4 mortar/3 flames?
Correct. They can't interact with Hammer but they can kill a Stormbreath Dragon, which was the alternative.
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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.
Playing Anger seems like it would slow both decks down. I'm having trouble seeing how that ends well for the RDW player.
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Oh, just a chance for me to have some fun poking a tiger. It wouldn't have been worth it but I would have enjoyed it.
But yes, back on topic, if your board is empty to cast Anger profitably as RDW vs MUD, things are not going well. Not a gameplan I want to try.
Of the tier 1 decks, electrickery really doesn't seem to be doing much.
It could be a decent card against a specific FNM meta.
While mortars is good vs MUD, you're probably not going to overload it. You might make it to 6 lands, but that's not plan A.
I admit that its R/g but ultimately its still rdw. I Started with it last season and twinked starting with saito's old list. I find it works really well for me, and I only add it to the conversation because there's a lot of talk about "Master of waves" and this deck goes Under/Through that card.
Madcap skills tends to obviate early blockers along with Rampager (who also helps you finish) and out of the side I run seismic stomp... which.. I'd love to be better, heck it could be gruul charm except that I'm skimping on lands so... yeah.
This version of the deck just wants to get through, and it actually does it pretty handily, most of the time.
I should likely prolly do the right thing and drop 1 chain-walker and add 1 mutavault or something... I don't know. All in all though I really enjoy it and it gets there more often than not.
Madcap skills is a card that really should be run right now I think. Despite the fact that some people are playing removal.dec It really obviates the turn they play their "Blocker" and can turn thinks like firedrinker statyr into world class threats. Especially when paired with emissary, I'm been away from my red bros' for a while in isolation so I might be working backwards... I don't know.
Thoughts?
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Madcap Skills
2 Firedrinker Satyr
3 Goblin Shortcutter
4 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Firefist Striker
2 Act of Treason
4 Lightning Strike
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Flames of the Firebrand
Land: 19
4 Forest
11 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Skullcrack
4 Ranger's Guile
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Seismic Stomp
3 Fade into Antiquity
So very dead.
Either run like 14 1 drop's or go up some lands. Don't be scared of the full set of Satyr. There's an all in deck far earlier in this thread with the full 12 naya shocks and some basics if that's what you want.
You also can't reliably cast ash zealot on 15 red.
Really, just add some lands. The forests can be scry lands if need be or something.
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round 1 bye
round 2 mono white 2-0 (he kept a 1 lander game 1)
round 3 junk 1-2 (really unlucky, and that's my opponets words)
round 4 monoblue 1-2 (there were like 2 out of 25)
round 5 rakdos aggro 0-2 (bad draws+he drew well. a mix of black and red, not a splash)
thinking of changing my deck to this
4 rakdos cackler
2 firedrinker satyr
4 firefist striker
4 ash zealot
2 frostburn weird
4 chandra's phoenix
4 boros reckoner
4 fanatic of mogis
4 magma jet
4 lightning strike
planeswalkers:
2 chandra, pyromaster
3 mizzium mortars
3 act of treason
2 ratchet bomb
2 frostburn weird
2 burning earth
1 chandra, pyromaster
1 hammer of purphoros
1 ?
not sure how to sideboard, since i've only played it today. tips and advice apreciated
also thoughts on mindsparker?
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Cannot tell if sarcasm
Where are your lands? A nonzero number of them should be Mutavault. If you don't have it, you'll lose to players who do.
Zem is correct, Mindsparker just isn't good.
I think your curve is a bit too high. Definitely play eight one-drops in this deck, fewer (if any) Fanatic, and possibly exchange some three-drops for two-drops as well.
Flames of the Firebrand should be in your board against red or white aggro decks, possibly against the blue deck as well.
I'm curious as to why you aren't running Ash Zealot? Patrick sulivan's list that was posted on starcitygames.com didn't run zealot either. Am I missing something?
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Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Out of curiosity, what got you off the Ash Zealot plan and onto BTE? The results speak for themselves, but I would think that Ash Zealot would be the more natural choice especially when you're not on the devotion plan at all.
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Consistency > explosiveness
Also I've tested the hell out of them and loved them.
RE: Flames of the Firebrand. What Rujasu said. It's not an exciting card (it's not Arc Trail), but it's very well positioned, so it's contextually very powerful.
RE: Ash Zealot. I've already done a full explanation over at DTR, so suffice it to say, Ash Zealot is better when matchups are predicated on attacking and blocking (interactive creature combat) whereas now it's more of a racing meta. Also, if/when you play the deck you'll find that it's absurdly mana hungry and the free mana really helps you mobilise your resources faster.
Basically, sometimes it's better to have card quality; but right now, many of the top decks are very weak to 1 drop into BTE + FFS backed up my Mutavaults and burn.
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The world is on fire
and you are here to stay and burn with me.
Speaking of which, I tried out one of your earlier lists and found myself getting screwed on lands quite often. I think it may want 23 lands even if it is only running two 4 drops. For a deck with an average cost of around 2 it still really does want to hit its first 4 or so land drops pretty much every game (at least that's what I found over a few DEs and handful of practice games). I'm going to take your current version into the MOCS prelim tomorrow though since it actually is well built unlike pretty much any of the other lists that I've looked at (the average list seems to be running Boros Reckoner with only 19 mountains :thumbsdown:).
So much this^
I used to have it my board, and upon further consideration I realized that at not point did I want the darn thing. If his first strike was haste instead he'd be a shoe-in, but in his current form, just no. The rest of the cycle is just better.
2-1 BUG Midrange
1-2 Naya Midrange
2-0 RG Monstrous/Midrange
3-1
2nd out of 16 people.
This was a side event at a sealed PTQ in Wichita, KS. It was really fun, even with people talking mad **** on RDW (what else is new?)
I lost round 3 game 3 literally one turn behind. Had I been on the play, or had another body on board, or another burn spell... literally anything besides the land I had drawn I would have won the round. I had 10 damage on board with a Lightning Strike in hand and an Unflinching Courage on a Loxodon Smiter was able to stall long enough until he drew another Courage. Otherwise I would say RDW performed once again magnificantly in a meta that played bigger and better creatures. The key to the deck is knowing when to turn them sideways, when to trade, and what to use your burn spells on. Oh, and the always well-timed Goblin Shortcutter
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Foundry-Street Denizen
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Gore-House Chainwalker
4 Chandra's Phoenix
2 Boros Reckoner
2 Firefist Striker
3 Goblin Shortcutter
2 Fanatic of Mogus
4 Lightning Strike
20 Mountain
2 Boros Reckoner
3 Frostburn Weird
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Act of Treason
2 Hammer of Purphoros
2 Skullcrack
1 Flames of the Firebrand
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
Just to update, I went 4-2 in the prelim (good enough for another promo Scrubland, not good enough to qualify for the MOCS sadly) IIRC faced:
R1: W 2-0 vs Boros Devotion (should be a pretty poor matchup but he had bad draws both games)
R2: W 2-0 vs Black Devotion
R3: W 2-0 vs Black Devotion (this deck seems pretty easy to beat provided they don't go removal-removal-desecration demon)
R4: L 0-2 vs Boros Devotion (got crushed this time as I would expect)
R5: W 2-1 vs Esper Control
R6: L 1-2 vs B/W midrange (Fiendslayer Paladin + a steady stream of removal wrecked me after board)
Then played a daily later that day going 3-1 beating UW control and two mirror matches while getting my lunch money stolen by another Boros Devotion deck. This deck is very soft to an early Boros Reckoner (or as was the case in this matchup 2 in each game) with a lot of its draws but overall I've been liking it.