I can't help but wonder if this thing wouldn't have a decent place in certain control decks right now. Nobody is running artifact removal, making it essentially a permanent and instant creature exile engine.
As an added bonus, it's cheap to cast initially, so it can be sneaked in before counter wars start to get online in control battles.
It could really mess with so many strategies right now. Thragtusks and angels and all that can be dealt with.
Only real downside is it does nothing early game. That is kinda big, but maybe worth it anyway.
I can't help but wonder if this thing wouldn't have a decent place in certain control decks right now. Nobody is running artifact removal, making it essentially a permanent and instant creature exile engine.
As an added bonus, it's cheap to cast initially, so it can be sneaked in before counter wars start to get online in control battles.
It could really mess with so many strategies right now. Thragtusks and angels and all that can be dealt with.
Only real downside is it does nothing early game. That is kinda big, but maybe worth it anyway.
The activation cost of exiling your opponents stuff is high enough that I can only see it having use against Angel of Serenity control decks. The thing is, they do run Artifact removal like Detention Sphere or Oblivion Ring. Also, spending ten mana to remove one creature is nuts.
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
A while back I had the idea to pair it with lots of ETB creatures and Trading Post, but the problem is that it just didn't make a good enough engine, and there were easier ways to do the same thing.
If you're going for repeated removal, the problem there is it's far too expensive.
RTFC: "When Helvault is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return all cards exiled with it to the battlefield under their owners' control."
It could be a sideboard card vs grindy decks if you don't play much removal and can easily achieve 7 mana.
Dude, chill, I know. My point is, with a seven mana activation cost, they're going to D Sphere the bloody thing before you get a single activation. If you think paying ten mana at once to exile one creature is going to happen, well, good luck with that.
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
Dude, chill, I know. My point is, with a seven mana activation cost, they're going to D Sphere the bloody thing before you get a single activation. If you think paying ten mana at once to exile one creature is going to happen, well, good luck with that.
If they D sphere it, you got a one for one on both cards and mana. That's not a terrible thing. If they don't have a sphere kicking around, it could get out if hand.
Looks like a decent card for control mirrors. Why counter something. When you can repeatedly exile creatures eot? Idk since I never really thought about using it. Looks like something that you have to test it to know. The down side is it has not board impact what so ever.
If they D sphere it, you got a one for one on both cards and mana. That's not a terrible thing. If they don't have a sphere kicking around, it could get out if hand.
I don't like how everyone bases everything on one for one or two for one etc.....
Your not gonna win because someone had to answer your card.
Yea its nice to get more bang for you're buck but if they d sphere your helvault they neutralize your threat that doesn't do anything off rip.
It needs 10 mana before it does anything to your opponent's board which is a pretty large investment. Maybe as a singleton sideboard against the slower midrange creature decks but even then you're better off just wrathing usually.
Paying 7 mana to keep the board clear could be a thing. But with the reach red(black) decks have it's not something to consider vs them. There are better tools vs control. It could be a card in a durdle midrange mirror, but most of the time there are better tools there too.
It's no great card (yet?), but you don't look at it from a right perspective. A lot of which has to do with not reading the card well.
Okay, so we actually seem to agree that this card is no good. You just think it's less bad than I do.
Control works by paying less for answers than they are spending on threats, using the excess mana to draw and filter cards or by using sweepers that answer multiple threats.
By the time you've gained card advantage from Helvault you've payed at least seventeen mana and probably three turns. That just will not fly against any remotely efficient deck, be it aggro, midrange or control. Aggro and midrange will be just overwhelming you with threats, and if you have the mana and time against a control deck that can't answer this, you could probably just be winning. Door to Nothingness can win the game for less mana than Helvault can gain one card worth of advantage.
...not only is the total number of players expanding very quickly, but at the same time a greater and greater number of those players are being pushed to only desire a small subset of the available cards. These combined forces drastically increase demand for those cards and cause the values of just those specific cards to often balloon out of proportion.
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I can't help but wonder if this thing wouldn't have a decent place in certain control decks right now. Nobody is running artifact removal, making it essentially a permanent and instant creature exile engine.
As an added bonus, it's cheap to cast initially, so it can be sneaked in before counter wars start to get online in control battles.
It could really mess with so many strategies right now. Thragtusks and angels and all that can be dealt with.
Only real downside is it does nothing early game. That is kinda big, but maybe worth it anyway.
The activation cost of exiling your opponents stuff is high enough that I can only see it having use against Angel of Serenity control decks. The thing is, they do run Artifact removal like Detention Sphere or Oblivion Ring. Also, spending ten mana to remove one creature is nuts.
the only decks it would be good against would kill you before you could use it
If you're going for repeated removal, the problem there is it's far too expensive.
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Dude, chill, I know. My point is, with a seven mana activation cost, they're going to D Sphere the bloody thing before you get a single activation. If you think paying ten mana at once to exile one creature is going to happen, well, good luck with that.
If they D sphere it, you got a one for one on both cards and mana. That's not a terrible thing. If they don't have a sphere kicking around, it could get out if hand.
the concept is nice though, I think if it was 1 mana less to activate it could see some play
but as it stands I can sphinx for 4 or I can remove a guy, which would you rather do?
I don't like how everyone bases everything on one for one or two for one etc.....
Your not gonna win because someone had to answer your card.
Yea its nice to get more bang for you're buck but if they d sphere your helvault they neutralize your threat that doesn't do anything off rip.
Okay, so we actually seem to agree that this card is no good. You just think it's less bad than I do.
Control works by paying less for answers than they are spending on threats, using the excess mana to draw and filter cards or by using sweepers that answer multiple threats.
By the time you've gained card advantage from Helvault you've payed at least seventeen mana and probably three turns. That just will not fly against any remotely efficient deck, be it aggro, midrange or control. Aggro and midrange will be just overwhelming you with threats, and if you have the mana and time against a control deck that can't answer this, you could probably just be winning. Door to Nothingness can win the game for less mana than Helvault can gain one card worth of advantage.
Bad card is bad amiright?