hmm looks like you're trying to mix in a bit of reanimation to the deck.. well unlike some people in the thread I won't go and say THAT'S STUPID CAUSE IT HAS OTHER COLORS IN IT!
I would love to play MBC. .. and the card pool is almost there but not quite. A functional reprint of damnation would be nice. I've tested black splashing into each of the 4 other colors. I still hesitate to go 3+ colors because of mana issues and losing devotion more or less. I've gauntleted each variation and so far running it as golgari rock seems to work best, not only in matchups vs. popular decks (from here, modo, and minor tourneys) but against each other. I think it is somewhat naive at this point to consider black devotion as mono black and to take advantage of what splashing can help accomplish. So I would agree, discussing splashing (as OP also suggested) is not just warranted, but prudent. Each color offers unique options.
Well I've more or less completed my deck - or at least don't play on making too many changes to it until it's FNM tested. Thanks to the contributors on this thread as it's helped me a great deal with specific card decisions.
My sideboard is still not into form yet but it's coming along. I've only really two more cards to add to the MD: one or two Hero's Downfall and a Thoughtseize.I'm also choosing to not use Desecration Demon although for quite some time I used 4. This is mostly a meta call as he keeps letting me down against mono-blue & red.
I'll fix this up for ya so you have oodles of more success at your FNM.
I would love to play MBC. .. and the card pool is almost there but not quite. A functional reprint of damnation would be nice. I've tested black splashing into each of the 4 other colors. I still hesitate to go 3+ colors because of mana issues and losing devotion more or less. I've gauntleted each variation and so far running it as golgari rock seems to work best, not only in matchups vs. popular decks (from here, modo, and minor tourneys) but against each other. I think it is somewhat naive at this point to consider black devotion as mono black and to take advantage of what splashing can help accomplish. So I would agree, discussing splashing (as OP also suggested) is not just warranted, but prudent. Each color offers unique options.
Well that's what I'm saying. This thread is filled with people who are not willing to adapt saying that mbc is already good enough without change.
I've tested both the blue and green. Haven't really tested the green splash much though. Bringing it to fnm today. What I miss from the blue splash is the scry lands. I feel scrying after you hit that 4th land is very advantageous.
Was running lili for 2 weeks and every time I had her in hand I always wished she was a demon or another removal.... Sure tutoring a swamp every turn for pack rat is a positive but you can only do that when you have control of the board. If not then you're just getting a swamp and lili probably dies next turn. IF u have control of the board then it's safe to say underworld connections is sufficient for you to get cards for pack rat
This is the exact problem I have been running into recently. Honestly I haven't tested my list as much as I should, mostly just tournaments (of which I have been doing great in lately), but you are on point about this card. Often times it would serve me better as just another removal spell, and we have a pretty nice plethora of removal to choose from anyhow.
The thing is in the mirror or against most midrange she will sometimes end up getting her X off with a whip on board, which even with just a pack rat can turn a table or at the very least buy you a turn.
If she is in there I think she is just a 1 of honestly, because I think she likes hitting the board once a demon has already resolved. Sometimes it will draw out a counterspell that would otherwise hit a demon though which is good.
Also she runs well with Corrupt, and I have been running 2 maindeck over other removal.
I think I am going to go down to 1 in favor of maybe 1 doom blade or 1 more devour flesh main deck.
did you consider playing Blood Baron of Vizkopa ? Would be fitting nicely into this Deck. I guess i would kick the Ashen Rider & Abhorrent Overlord out of the deck, for 2 Barons.
I concur because as I am sure Friday will contest to, you WILL see mono black if you plan to play standard often. I like at least 1 blood baron main, if not 2-3, and undoubtedly I would finish the play-set in the sideboard (if I had the money/trade to get them).
I would love to play MBC. .. and the card pool is almost there but not quite. A functional reprint of damnation would be nice. I've tested black splashing into each of the 4 other colors. I still hesitate to go 3+ colors because of mana issues and losing devotion more or less. I've gauntleted each variation and so far running it as golgari rock seems to work best, not only in matchups vs. popular decks (from here, modo, and minor tourneys) but against each other. I think it is somewhat naive at this point to consider black devotion as mono black and to take advantage of what splashing can help accomplish. So I would agree, discussing splashing (as OP also suggested) is not just warranted, but prudent. Each color offers unique options.
I disagree solely because Corrupt has been doing very well for me lately. It is a blowout card that serves as removal and can be phenomenal in the mirror if they can't find their Erebos (I keep 2 in, take 2 out against aggro match ups and R/G midrange). Also good against Esper as it is one more thing to hit Elspeth or other walkers with.
Well that's what I'm saying. This thread is filled with people who are not willing to adapt saying that mbc is already good enough without change.
I've tested both the blue and green. Haven't really tested the green splash much though. Bringing it to fnm today. What I miss from the blue splash is the scry lands. I feel scrying after you hit that 4th land is very advantageous.
That's because this is Black Devotion. If you want to splash green, you're basically playing The Rock and there's a thread for that already, and it doesn't belong here.
Green splash is The Rock, Red splash is Rakdos.. Blue splash hasn't really seen any full creation yet.
Going to be bringing this list to Star City Dallas this weekend, it's not pure black but at it's core it's doing the same thing Monoblack is doing. Any suggestions?
Against control, the pack rats, doom blades and a devour flesh come out to bring in Thoughtseize, Sin Collectors, Pithing needle and Blood Baron. Against aggro, Thoughtseize, Specters, Elspeth, a Baron and an Obzedat come out to fit in the High Priests, Alms Beasts and Pharika's Cures.
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Devotion to durdling
Going to be bringing this list to Star City Dallas this weekend, it's not pure black but at it's core it's doing the same thing Monoblack is doing. Any suggestions?
Against control, the pack rats, doom blades and a devour flesh come out to bring in Thoughtseize, Sin Collectors, Pithing needle and Blood Baron. Against aggro, Thoughtseize, Specters, Elspeth, a Baron and an Obzedat come out to fit in the High Priests, Alms Beasts and Pharika's Cures.
Hardcasting Obdezat when you only have 8 white sources is going to be a problem. And Elspeth, while a very good card, is not where you want to be with this deck. If you really feel the need to splash white, Blood Baron is the card you want, but it truthfully is not worth the splash. White simply isn't a color worth splashing.
That's a point I figured out too. I did the white splash for about 20 matches and there were more worst cases then good situations due to the white splash. Currently I am trying a list splashing red and I will see if that works out.
To be able to cast obzedat in time, you need about 12 white sources and that hurts the mana base too much I think. But that route is something I did not test.
With red you get Slaughter Games, Rakdos's Return, Underworld Cerberus, and Dreadbore, in order of importance.
Again, not sure it is worth the splash, but Slaughter Games is a very good card in certain matchups.
I think the best answer to a heavy aggro meta is the red splash. Gives you Anger of the Gods(SB) which is a house and exiles annoying creatures, and Dreadbore which upgrades your situational 2 CMC removal (Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, etc.) saving you SB slots. Also other options as well like Mortors.
Another very useful card against fast aggro weenie-decks is Flames of the Firebrand, which is often a two-for-one. I run two in the main, as well as 3 Mizzium Mortars in my red splash black devotion list. Anger of the gods is in the sideboard (if you run 13-14 red mana sources you should be fine with both 1RR and 1BB). I'm also considering running a couple of shock for the lower mana curve and to occasionally be able to kill a creature turn 1. The old jund-lists (before Theros-rotation) ran some 1 cmc removal with great success against weenie aggro. I haven't found room for it yet.
Another very useful card against fast aggro weenie-decks is Flames of the Firebrand, which is often a two-for-one. I run two in the main, as well as 3 Mizzium Mortars in my red splash black devotion list. Anger of the gods is in the sideboard (if you run 13-14 red mana sources you should be fine with both 1RR and 1BB). I'm also considering running a couple of shock for the lower mana curve and to occasionally be able to kill a creature turn 1. The old jund-lists (before Theros-rotation) ran some 1 cmc removal with great success against weenie aggro. I haven't found room for it yet.
I think Flames of the Firebrand might have *some* merit, but Anger of the Gods should not, at least in this thread. If you are playing 14 red mana sources, you are not playing a black devotion deck.
I think Flames of the Firebrand might have *some* merit, but Anger of the Gods should not, at least in this thread. If you are playing 14 red mana sources, you are not playing a black devotion deck.
14 red mana sources isn't that much when 8 of them are B/R duals. With 6 mountains and 10 swamps I have 18 black mana sources. 1BB is my most mana intensive black spell (I don't play nightveil) , so I should be fine. Jund lists before Theros played Liliana with fewer black sources than that. Remember that we only play two colors here. The main reason I want 5-6 mountains is to have a good chance to overload the maindeck Mizzium Mortars for 3RRR and sweep their board.
That's because this is Black Devotion. If you want to splash green, you're basically playing The Rock and there's a thread for that already, and it doesn't belong here.
Green splash is The Rock, Red splash is Rakdos.. Blue splash hasn't really seen any full creation yet.
You've missed the point. This isn't a thread for MBC. It's for black devotion and the OPs intent was to discus the core set of cards of black devotion AND the various splashing. That's why there's a breakdown of cards into other colors wrapped in spoiler tags in the very first post of this thread. In particular, my flavor of the rock has more card choices in common with devo than it does rock, thus posting it here.
What is the general opinion on AEtherling in a blue splash? It would seem like a good secondary win condition against control and midrange decks, and it can recurred with Whip. However, double blue costs and no black devotion points are off putting.
Is AEtherling worth consideration, or is adding it in trying to be too cute?
I play a kinda similar list, chris. And played in previous standard with the cards you have doubts.
Vraska is a powerhouse. She's usually a 2x1, and could be potentially a wincon on her own.
Lothlet is very good, but he slows your plays 1 turn. You definitely want to keep a swamp open when you cast him, and the following turns you also want to keep a swamp open. In the other hand, he's almost unkillable if you play it safe. Dodging a lot of spot removals and cheat regen.
I dropped the DD because most of the matches i played him on T4 on the defensive, but he acted like a 4 wasted mana. That's why i opted for 3 lifebanes and 1 reaper to try.
I'm still not sure in the removal package
I have problems to find/make the final shapings ...
Maybe some explanations to the cards/splits:
The creature base:
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Nightveil Specter
3x Desecration Demon
3x Pack Rats
2x Reaper of the Wilds
-snip-
Thats my creatures base which should stays this way.
Cut a Nightveil Specter for a 10th removal, I honestly do think the deck needs a minimum of 10 removals. Your rat opinion is correct.
There is only 1 alternative, which i would like to discuss.
The Lotleth Troll for the cmc 2 mana slot. The rats are importan for us, because they raise up our devotion, but that can be really expensive (if we use 3 mana and discard a card to copy the rat) and they can synergize with Mutavault too, to make some nice combos. The downsides are, nearly everything can kill them like almost every removel (exception is doom blade), almost every 1/1 creature and so on, IF we dont have at least 2 rats or 1 or more mutavaults on the battlefield to pump the rat up.
The option to not attack is always there. Most of the time against aggro decks I'll wait, my creatures get bigger exponentially, theirs only cumulative, remember you play the control/midrange role against aggro decks(you described a situation where it sounded like your against aggro), we have one of the best lategames in all decks(second only to control/reanimator). Stick with the rats, they are the reason why you can run 4 thoughtseizes, and mutavaults make them better, lotleth is better in Rock and lotleth is not as untouchable as you speak of, it get screwed up big time by azorius charm, I play reanimator half the time.
Uh, most activated gods can't be hit by devour flesh unless it's Erebos. 1 main is sufficient, I board in 1~2 more if I suspect it in BWx decks. Your list can benefit from 2 Ultimate Prices imo, it is only bad against control and mono blue. I shudder to think 9 removals against aggro is sufficient.
Should we cut Underworld from 4 to 3 ? To improve our cmc 2 removel spot ?
Don't ever touch UC, its the only reason why this deck is top tier.
On SB: I still do not like Vraska, if you play her, maximum 1 slot.
Edit: Vraska: She's obviously bad against aggro, midrange decks don't care about her because they overrun her almost immediately, I see that she's only good in the control matchup, which I realised I have like 11 cards sideboard against control just because I can, half the time I don't draw my SB cards and already destroys control, we want cards to shore up our not so good matchups... Like Aggro/Mono Blue devotion.
Corrupt's the only reason why I want to stay mono black. It has been really good in testing as a one of. But the smaller amount of removal hurts...[/SPOILER]
Choices choices...
why a prophetic prism? just to make sure the mutavaults dont color screw you ? i think i would rather have a another corrupt or a removal spell in general
why a prophetic prism? just to make sure the mutavaults dont color screw you ? i think i would rather have a another corrupt or a removal spell in general
That and it cantrips 1 card deeper into finding merchants n corrupt, 2 corrupts is usually unneeded and too topheavy imo.
The biggest difference in my splash and nonsplash list is that the nonsplash 1 has inferior removal thus needs to go for the throat by having high devotion n close out the game asap. Thus the prism helps in that aspect to ensure reliability in casting nightveil specter. It digs and functions as half a land drop to enable a big corrupt. It also has the silly but relevant benefit of casting cards stolen surprisingly often.
You may be right though, 1 more removal might be better instead, but part of the reason why I dislike Nightveil is due to conflict with Mutavault which is a must-have.
I'm gonna try a green splash again tonight the Naya and Boros deck in my shops have picked up on Assemble the Legion, and more people are moving towards Mono U as well and I've had the worst time playing against Nightveil Specters, so I'd like to have the ability to more reliably kill the damn Specter (having answers to Bident and using Charm as a Mini wrath seems good as well, hopefully by adding 2 Temple of Mysteries in addition to the 4/4 gate/shock split I can access green more often). I don't think Fade into Antiquity warrants a spot in the board considering it's easy enough to shut off Thassa by killing devotion and using pithing needle to prevent unblockable shenanigans.
That and it cantrips 1 card deeper into finding merchants n corrupt, 2 corrupts is usually unneeded and too topheavy imo.
The biggest difference in my splash and nonsplash list is that the nonsplash 1 has inferior removal thus needs to go for the throat by having high devotion n close out the game asap. Thus the prism helps in that aspect to ensure reliability in casting nightveil specter. It digs and functions as half a land drop to enable a big corrupt. It also has the silly but relevant benefit of casting cards stolen surprisingly often.
You may be right though, 1 more removal might be better instead, but part of the reason why I dislike Nightveil is due to conflict with Mutavault which is a must-have.
Your deck for MBD (without green) doesn't run enough removal at all. You need a bare minimum of 10.
So I went 3-2 at tonight's FNM with the green splash. Overall I can say the green splash is most excellent if you expect to see a lot of Mono B variants, RW variants, and UW variants. My mana base only screwed me one time tonight, and I'm really tempted to go up to 4 temples between UB and UG, possibly cutting out 1-2 Golgari Guildgates.
Round 1 I played against the Boros weenie deck.
Game 1 I just had enough removal and then packed it in with a pack rat.
Game 2 Golgari charm did some major work killing 2 Chain to the Rocks allowing me to kill him with demons. Easy 2-0.
Round 2 I played against GW aggro.
Game 1 I saw 1 removal spell in the top 15 cards and died when he top decked Selesnya Charm for my demon and swung in for lethal. This was also the game I lost with a handfull of BB cards with U/G B/G Colorless for lands for the first 5 turns.
Game 2 I kicked his teeth in with removal and lifebane zombies.
Game 3 I saw 2 removal spells (which where in my opening hand), a Merchant, a Lifebane Zombie (which somehow managed to miss) and then lots and lots of lands, and he won with only a Fleecemain Lion and Knight token on the board.
I played some more games for fun/testing aftwerwards and won the next 3 games in record time, just really really poor draws on my part.
Round 3 was against MUD.
Game 1 I got him to 2 and he was able to get there after seeing all 4 Master of Waves, and 3 Nightveil Specter, along with a forever active Thassa I just couldn't muster enough removal to get there.
Game 2 was pretty close, but golgari charm saved me from an otherwise unwinnable games state (I was at 7, he had Thassa and Weird in play, he played Bident to active Thassa in which I golgari charmed it in response to attackers). Then I cracked back for lethal. Granted I also saw triple Demon this game.
Game 3 I saw 2 Removal spells and 3 lands and died roughly around turn 7 after he rifted away my specter.
Round 4 was against Dega midrange.
Game 1 they dropped BBV on turn 5 and I had no answer. However I played pack rat with activation mana up, then 2 turns later played a whip, she didn't have an answer for rat immediately and eventually 6/6 lifelinking rates just raced the hell out of BBV, especially when you Gary for 12, Gary for 16. They also dropped Assemble the Legion on like turn 7 but it ultimately didn't matter.
Game 2 he slaughter games naming Pack Rat turn 4 (which I boarded in to the full 4, which admittedly was a mistake because they were playing Anger and Mortars) but I was able to drop demons and a whip to take the game. Also a Turn 4 Erebos went unmolested and just ran rampant with CA with nykthos mana.
Round 3 I played against UWR control.
Game 1 was a little awkward but Abrupt Decay on the Dsphere holding back my pack rat let me get a pack rat army which forced him to wrath away his Reckoner and Elspeth Tokens. I followed up with downfall on the Elspeth and then a couple of Connections and Gary drops rounded out the game.
Game 2 Abrupt Decay and Golgari charm did some major work. I Thoughtseized away 1 Assemble, then Golgari Charmed the second and shored up the game with Zombies, Whip, and Garys.
Overall I'm liking the green splash in the face of everyone picking up RW as the new hot stuff around as all the cards we splash for in green are super relevant. The fact that golgari charm acts as a wrath effect against the Boros weenie deck is just hilarious. I played some more games against the MUD afterwards and went about 8 win and 6 losses for game 1s with the green splash, and he didn't even want to test boarded games because he admitted he couldn't deal with 5 more removal/hate spells.
I think until RW hype dies down I'm going to continue splashing green, I just need to figure out what I want my landbase to be. If I find the green splash to not be needed I'll cut it immediately because I do like the consistency of the Mono B, but the utility of the green is just too great with all the white running around. I'm hoping Monday I can x-0, because I really feel the deck can get there.
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I would love to play MBC. .. and the card pool is almost there but not quite. A functional reprint of damnation would be nice. I've tested black splashing into each of the 4 other colors. I still hesitate to go 3+ colors because of mana issues and losing devotion more or less. I've gauntleted each variation and so far running it as golgari rock seems to work best, not only in matchups vs. popular decks (from here, modo, and minor tourneys) but against each other. I think it is somewhat naive at this point to consider black devotion as mono black and to take advantage of what splashing can help accomplish. So I would agree, discussing splashing (as OP also suggested) is not just warranted, but prudent. Each color offers unique options.
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GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
I'll fix this up for ya so you have oodles of more success at your FNM.
4 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Abhorrent Overlord
Spells (20)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
2 Ultimate Price
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Underworld Connections
1 Rescue from the Underworld
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Mutavault
4 Temple of Silence
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
16 Swamps
1 Ultimate Price
1 Devour Flesh
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Lifebain Zombie
1 Merciless Eviction
4 Duress
You'll see 100% more consistency with this deck, and won't be stuck on creatures that cost 5+.
Running a 1 of Obzedat is perfect, as you can just pitch it with rats if you don't have the mana and use his exile after whip to avoid the perm exile.
Ashen Rider is just garbage.
Mono Black B
Mono Blue U
Esper Control BUW (Soon)
Commander
Mindseize BRU
Esper BWU
Modern
Black Deck Wins B
Goblin Deck Wins R
Well that's what I'm saying. This thread is filled with people who are not willing to adapt saying that mbc is already good enough without change.
I've tested both the blue and green. Haven't really tested the green splash much though. Bringing it to fnm today. What I miss from the blue splash is the scry lands. I feel scrying after you hit that 4th land is very advantageous.
This is the exact problem I have been running into recently. Honestly I haven't tested my list as much as I should, mostly just tournaments (of which I have been doing great in lately), but you are on point about this card. Often times it would serve me better as just another removal spell, and we have a pretty nice plethora of removal to choose from anyhow.
The thing is in the mirror or against most midrange she will sometimes end up getting her X off with a whip on board, which even with just a pack rat can turn a table or at the very least buy you a turn.
If she is in there I think she is just a 1 of honestly, because I think she likes hitting the board once a demon has already resolved. Sometimes it will draw out a counterspell that would otherwise hit a demon though which is good.
Also she runs well with Corrupt, and I have been running 2 maindeck over other removal.
I think I am going to go down to 1 in favor of maybe 1 doom blade or 1 more devour flesh main deck.
I concur because as I am sure Friday will contest to, you WILL see mono black if you plan to play standard often. I like at least 1 blood baron main, if not 2-3, and undoubtedly I would finish the play-set in the sideboard (if I had the money/trade to get them).
I disagree solely because Corrupt has been doing very well for me lately. It is a blowout card that serves as removal and can be phenomenal in the mirror if they can't find their Erebos (I keep 2 in, take 2 out against aggro match ups and R/G midrange). Also good against Esper as it is one more thing to hit Elspeth or other walkers with.
That's because this is Black Devotion. If you want to splash green, you're basically playing The Rock and there's a thread for that already, and it doesn't belong here.
Green splash is The Rock, Red splash is Rakdos.. Blue splash hasn't really seen any full creation yet.
Mono Black B
Mono Blue U
Esper Control BUW (Soon)
Commander
Mindseize BRU
Esper BWU
Modern
Black Deck Wins B
Goblin Deck Wins R
10 Swamp
5 Plains
2 Mutavault
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
Creatures (16)
2 Pack Rat
3 Nightveil Specter
3 Desecration Demon
3 Obzedat
1 Blood Baron
4 Gray Merchant
3 Thoughtseize
3 Doom blade
3 Devour Flesh
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
1 Elspeth
1 Thoughtseize
3 High Priest of Penance
3 Alms Beast
3 Sin Collector
3 Pharika's Cure
1 Pithing Needle
1 Blood Baron
Against control, the pack rats, doom blades and a devour flesh come out to bring in Thoughtseize, Sin Collectors, Pithing needle and Blood Baron. Against aggro, Thoughtseize, Specters, Elspeth, a Baron and an Obzedat come out to fit in the High Priests, Alms Beasts and Pharika's Cures.
Devotion to durdling
Hardcasting Obdezat when you only have 8 white sources is going to be a problem. And Elspeth, while a very good card, is not where you want to be with this deck. If you really feel the need to splash white, Blood Baron is the card you want, but it truthfully is not worth the splash. White simply isn't a color worth splashing.
With red you get Slaughter Games, Rakdos's Return, Underworld Cerberus, and Dreadbore, in order of importance.
Again, not sure it is worth the splash, but Slaughter Games is a very good card in certain matchups.
Another very useful card against fast aggro weenie-decks is Flames of the Firebrand, which is often a two-for-one. I run two in the main, as well as 3 Mizzium Mortars in my red splash black devotion list. Anger of the gods is in the sideboard (if you run 13-14 red mana sources you should be fine with both 1RR and 1BB). I'm also considering running a couple of shock for the lower mana curve and to occasionally be able to kill a creature turn 1. The old jund-lists (before Theros-rotation) ran some 1 cmc removal with great success against weenie aggro. I haven't found room for it yet.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
I think Flames of the Firebrand might have *some* merit, but Anger of the Gods should not, at least in this thread. If you are playing 14 red mana sources, you are not playing a black devotion deck.
14 red mana sources isn't that much when 8 of them are B/R duals. With 6 mountains and 10 swamps I have 18 black mana sources. 1BB is my most mana intensive black spell (I don't play nightveil) , so I should be fine. Jund lists before Theros played Liliana with fewer black sources than that. Remember that we only play two colors here. The main reason I want 5-6 mountains is to have a good chance to overload the maindeck Mizzium Mortars for 3RRR and sweep their board.
My current decklist:
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Desecration Demon
4x Lifebane Zombie
4x Pack Rat
Instant (2)
2x Hero's Downfall
Sorceries (13)
3x Flames of the Firebrand
4x Thoughtseize
3x Dreadbore
3x Mizzium Mortars
1x Whip of Erebos
3x Underworld Connections
Land (25)
4x Rakdos Guildgate
2x Mutavault
10x Swamp
5x Mountain
4x Blood Crypt
2x Duress
3x Spike Jester
2x Rakdos's Return
2x Doom Blade
2x Slaughter Games
2x Devour Flesh
3x Anger of the Gods
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
You've missed the point. This isn't a thread for MBC. It's for black devotion and the OPs intent was to discus the core set of cards of black devotion AND the various splashing. That's why there's a breakdown of cards into other colors wrapped in spoiler tags in the very first post of this thread. In particular, my flavor of the rock has more card choices in common with devo than it does rock, thus posting it here.
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GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
4x Heros Downfall
2x Rakdoss Return
1x Erebos
2x Sire of Insanity
4x Magma Jet
4x doom blade
4x Lifebane zombie
4x underworld connections
Red splash?
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
I would add some number Whip of Erebos in there because the synergy with Sire of Insanity would be really good.
Is AEtherling worth consideration, or is adding it in trying to be too cute?
Mizzium Mortars as your sweeper and a response to blood baron etc.
UWRUWR Delver/Lynx TempoUWR-------UWRUWR Midrange GeistUWR-------UWRUWR Nahiri ControlUWR-------UWRUWR SaheeliUWR
BGRJund / Jund ShadowBGR-------BGWAbzan / Abzan ShadowBGW
Commander (Leviathan/MTGO): UWGeist of Saint TraftUW
I expect a lot of Red/Rakdos aggro and GW aggro, and esper aswell.
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
4x Gray merchant of Asphodel
3x Lifebane zombie
4x Nightveil specter
3x Pack rat
1x Reaper of the wilds
Artifacts (2):
2x Whip of erebos
Enchantments (3):
3x Underworld connections
Planeswalkers (1):
1x Vraska the unseen
3x Golgari guildgate
3x Mutavault
4x Overgrown tomb
12x Swamp
3x Temple of mystery
Sorceries (4):
4x Thoughtseize
Instant (5):
2x Abrupt decay
2x Pharika's cure
2x Devour flesh
3x Hero's downfall
2x Pithing needle
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Returned phalanx
1x Hero's downfall
2x Golgari charm
1x Pharika's cure
1x Liliana of the dark realms
2x Gaze of granite
What do you think about it?
Vraska is a powerhouse. She's usually a 2x1, and could be potentially a wincon on her own.
Lothlet is very good, but he slows your plays 1 turn. You definitely want to keep a swamp open when you cast him, and the following turns you also want to keep a swamp open. In the other hand, he's almost unkillable if you play it safe. Dodging a lot of spot removals and cheat regen.
I dropped the DD because most of the matches i played him on T4 on the defensive, but he acted like a 4 wasted mana. That's why i opted for 3 lifebanes and 1 reaper to try.
I'm still not sure in the removal package
Cut a Nightveil Specter for a 10th removal, I honestly do think the deck needs a minimum of 10 removals. Your rat opinion is correct.
The option to not attack is always there. Most of the time against aggro decks I'll wait, my creatures get bigger exponentially, theirs only cumulative, remember you play the control/midrange role against aggro decks(you described a situation where it sounded like your against aggro), we have one of the best lategames in all decks(second only to control/reanimator). Stick with the rats, they are the reason why you can run 4 thoughtseizes, and mutavaults make them better, lotleth is better in Rock and lotleth is not as untouchable as you speak of, it get screwed up big time by azorius charm, I play reanimator half the time.
Uh, most activated gods can't be hit by devour flesh unless it's Erebos. 1 main is sufficient, I board in 1~2 more if I suspect it in BWx decks. Your list can benefit from 2 Ultimate Prices imo, it is only bad against control and mono blue. I shudder to think 9 removals against aggro is sufficient.
Don't ever touch UC, its the only reason why this deck is top tier.
On SB: I still do not like Vraska, if you play her, maximum 1 slot.
Edit: Vraska: She's obviously bad against aggro, midrange decks don't care about her because they overrun her almost immediately, I see that she's only good in the control matchup, which I realised I have like 11 cards sideboard against control just because I can, half the time I don't draw my SB cards and already destroys control, we want cards to shore up our not so good matchups... Like Aggro/Mono Blue devotion.
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B/g Devotion:
2 Pack Rat
4 Lifebane Zombie
3 Desecration Demon
2 Reaper of the Wilds
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Ultimate Price
1 Devour Flesh
4 Hero's Downfall
[25] Lands
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
3 Mutavault
1 Unknown Shores
13 Swamp
The deck's pretty fine at the moment, its right where I want it to be, ability to cast the awesome Abrupt Decays consistently.
Mono Black Devotion
3 Pack Rat
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Devour Flesh
1 Ultimate Price
1 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
1 Corrupt
1 Prophetic Prism
[25] Lands
4 Mutavault
21 Swamp
Corrupt's the only reason why I want to stay mono black. It has been really good in testing as a one of. But the smaller amount of removal hurts...
Choices choices...
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why a prophetic prism? just to make sure the mutavaults dont color screw you ? i think i would rather have a another corrupt or a removal spell in general
That and it cantrips 1 card deeper into finding merchants n corrupt, 2 corrupts is usually unneeded and too topheavy imo.
The biggest difference in my splash and nonsplash list is that the nonsplash 1 has inferior removal thus needs to go for the throat by having high devotion n close out the game asap. Thus the prism helps in that aspect to ensure reliability in casting nightveil specter. It digs and functions as half a land drop to enable a big corrupt. It also has the silly but relevant benefit of casting cards stolen surprisingly often.
You may be right though, 1 more removal might be better instead, but part of the reason why I dislike Nightveil is due to conflict with Mutavault which is a must-have.
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Your deck for MBD (without green) doesn't run enough removal at all. You need a bare minimum of 10.
Mono Black B
Mono Blue U
Esper Control BUW (Soon)
Commander
Mindseize BRU
Esper BWU
Modern
Black Deck Wins B
Goblin Deck Wins R
Round 1 I played against the Boros weenie deck.
Game 1 I just had enough removal and then packed it in with a pack rat.
Game 2 Golgari charm did some major work killing 2 Chain to the Rocks allowing me to kill him with demons. Easy 2-0.
Round 2 I played against GW aggro.
Game 1 I saw 1 removal spell in the top 15 cards and died when he top decked Selesnya Charm for my demon and swung in for lethal. This was also the game I lost with a handfull of BB cards with U/G B/G Colorless for lands for the first 5 turns.
Game 2 I kicked his teeth in with removal and lifebane zombies.
Game 3 I saw 2 removal spells (which where in my opening hand), a Merchant, a Lifebane Zombie (which somehow managed to miss) and then lots and lots of lands, and he won with only a Fleecemain Lion and Knight token on the board.
I played some more games for fun/testing aftwerwards and won the next 3 games in record time, just really really poor draws on my part.
Round 3 was against MUD.
Game 1 I got him to 2 and he was able to get there after seeing all 4 Master of Waves, and 3 Nightveil Specter, along with a forever active Thassa I just couldn't muster enough removal to get there.
Game 2 was pretty close, but golgari charm saved me from an otherwise unwinnable games state (I was at 7, he had Thassa and Weird in play, he played Bident to active Thassa in which I golgari charmed it in response to attackers). Then I cracked back for lethal. Granted I also saw triple Demon this game.
Game 3 I saw 2 Removal spells and 3 lands and died roughly around turn 7 after he rifted away my specter.
Round 4 was against Dega midrange.
Game 1 they dropped BBV on turn 5 and I had no answer. However I played pack rat with activation mana up, then 2 turns later played a whip, she didn't have an answer for rat immediately and eventually 6/6 lifelinking rates just raced the hell out of BBV, especially when you Gary for 12, Gary for 16. They also dropped Assemble the Legion on like turn 7 but it ultimately didn't matter.
Game 2 he slaughter games naming Pack Rat turn 4 (which I boarded in to the full 4, which admittedly was a mistake because they were playing Anger and Mortars) but I was able to drop demons and a whip to take the game. Also a Turn 4 Erebos went unmolested and just ran rampant with CA with nykthos mana.
Round 3 I played against UWR control.
Game 1 was a little awkward but Abrupt Decay on the Dsphere holding back my pack rat let me get a pack rat army which forced him to wrath away his Reckoner and Elspeth Tokens. I followed up with downfall on the Elspeth and then a couple of Connections and Gary drops rounded out the game.
Game 2 Abrupt Decay and Golgari charm did some major work. I Thoughtseized away 1 Assemble, then Golgari Charmed the second and shored up the game with Zombies, Whip, and Garys.
Overall I'm liking the green splash in the face of everyone picking up RW as the new hot stuff around as all the cards we splash for in green are super relevant. The fact that golgari charm acts as a wrath effect against the Boros weenie deck is just hilarious. I played some more games against the MUD afterwards and went about 8 win and 6 losses for game 1s with the green splash, and he didn't even want to test boarded games because he admitted he couldn't deal with 5 more removal/hate spells.
I think until RW hype dies down I'm going to continue splashing green, I just need to figure out what I want my landbase to be. If I find the green splash to not be needed I'll cut it immediately because I do like the consistency of the Mono B, but the utility of the green is just too great with all the white running around. I'm hoping Monday I can x-0, because I really feel the deck can get there.