I appologize that with you posting in the competitive forums that you are unable to complete an evaluation of a decklist on your own. I will endeavor to provide further enlightenment when I am home from work. As far as the primer, I can't help with that, but I'll be happy to let you know what I sideboard for specifically.
Don't try to talk down to me. If you say you can give a comprehensive sideboarding guide for MONO BLACK DEVOTION - do it.
Was trying a green splash to improve the Mono blue matchup as that is what I was losing to on MTGO dailys. This is the list I ran on the w/e in an SCG invitational qualifier. Went 5-0-2 in a 7 round swiss beating (in order): UW Control, GW Aggro, Mono U Devotion, BRW Midrange and R Devotion. Deck ran pretty smooth but quite a few 2-1 matches. In UW match he cast 4 revelations and 3 aetherlings and I still won so I guess our control matchup is fine (although esper is definately harder).
Still not sure the green splash is required, decay was alright but not outstanding, mistcutter helped me put away match against mono blue that I was probably winning anyway. With 10 G sources, hitting green was never a problem all day and I never had an issue casting specter on curve. Never got to use prism to cast spells I didn't have land for but I like that small utility.
Mutavault was great all day. Definately like it over Nykthos as a way to build big rats quickly and Nykthos ussually is good only in games we are winning anyway (i.e have 4 + devotion on the field).
We split the cash in top 8 ($200 not a bad day ) but I lost my first top 8 match against another Monu U deck. It went to 3 games, game 1 I got run over by their curve of 2 drop into Thassa into bident, game 2 I won with a solo skylasher on T2 and mutavaults into like 5 removal spells. Game 3 was close critical decision on T1 thoughtsize: I could've taken Master, Bident or Specter. I had a Specter of my own and no removal and he had only 2 lands and none in hand so I took the Specter. He proceeded to draw 2 running lands and a Thassa and I drew no removal for the whole games. I also made a questionable decision on Turn 4 to cast my second specter instead of Demon as I knew he had the master. Demon to preasure or force him to start sacing creatures probably would've been the better play.
Here is the list. I still think it is solid, not sure if mono Black is just not better. The deck does struggle against the new Naya and BRW control decks running 4 Assemble. What do you guys think about Illness in the Ranks as sideboard tech? It hurts pack rat but shuts off Elspeth and Assemble where we don't thoughtsieze them.
Sideboarding:
Mono blue
-1 Whip of Erebos
-2 Pack Rat
-1 Erebos
-3 Ultimate price
+2 Miscutter hydra
+2 Skylasher
+3 Doom blade
Pretty logical I think. Hydra and Skylasher are better threats than Pack rat and Erebos. Whip is too slow and Doom blade is better than Ultimate price due to Wierds and Judges Familiar
Esper
-3 Ultimate Price
-2 Pack rat
+3 Lifebane Zombie
+ Erebos, God of the Dead
+1 pithing needle
Pack rat out because of Verdict and D Sphere. Lifebane for Baron. Rest is obvious.
Removal in. Lifebane is better than Specter here and Whip because they do damage in big chunks and hard to race.
Mono black devotion
+2 pack rat
+1 Devour Flesh
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead
-4 Desecration Demon
Demon is worst threat in the mirror IMO. Devour flesh for T2 rat or T3 Specter. Erebos is critical in the mirror making their Whips, Gray merchants worse.
Don't try to talk down to me. If you say you can give a comprehensive sideboarding guide for MONO BLACK DEVOTION - do it.
This is a forum. Not a help desk. We come here to discuss not demand guides.
Side boarding is all down to the meta your place is devoted to. There's already various post giving sideboard examples and reasons for their choices. If you're not willing to so your own deduction based on others' comments then you shouldn't come to forums. Go find a deck guide instead.
Don't try to talk down to me. If you say you can give a comprehensive sideboarding guide for MONO BLACK DEVOTION - do it.
Sorry that you feel it condescending, but your original post criticizing posting my own list as not having enough substance and fiber to help you out left me at a quandary as most people can independently evaluate a deck in the competitive subforum. If you would like I would be more than happy to detail my card choices for this particular deck and its sideboard cboices. But as I am not the progenitor of this thread it's a bit presumptuous of me to put my own primer on top of it, wouldn't you agree? I will gladly amend my original decklist post to be more inclusive for you. Also, regarding a comprehensive sideboard strategy, as splashing for the 4 other colors is rather popular it becomes increasingly tough to accurately give a rundown of all good cards. Perhaps you may contribute your own ideas as well?
I've been siding out Thoughtseize against MUD with the assumption that only their most explosive starts are any real danger, but then I run a Green splash which does not even slightly fear Bident and can often remove Thassa. It may be correct to leave it in with the mono black lineup, especially if they are leaning heavily on Bidents.
Sorry that you feel it condescending, but your original post criticizing posting my own list as not having enough substance and fiber to help you out left me at a quandary as most people can independently evaluate a deck in the competitive subforum.
By your logic we should all just post deck lists and nothing more because we should all be capable of obtaining all the information we desire from said deck lists. get real. I never even mentioned you or your list, it just so happens that you fit my description of posts lacking substance. If we were all geniuses and had mind reading capabilities maybe a thread full of deck lists would do everyone some good but that isn't the case. You know it, I know it. get off it
This is a forum. Not a help desk. We come here to discuss not demand guides.
Side boarding is all down to the meta your place is devoted to. There's already various post giving sideboard examples and reasons for their choices. If you're not willing to so your own deduction based on others' comments then you shouldn't come to forums. Go find a deck guide instead.
Yes, there are various posts about various things. Mostly splash debate and misleading claims about card choices. You are correct that this isn't a help desk. You seem to be very unwilling to help. You can't even answer the most direct of questions. Where is this deck guide you speak of? Maybe I wouldn't read forums if I can find relevant information without having to wade through the babble.
By your logic we should all just post deck lists and nothing more because we should all be capable of obtaining all the information we desire from said deck lists. get real. I never even mentioned you or your list, it just so happens that you fit my description of posts lacking substance. If we were all geniuses and had mind reading capabilities maybe a thread full of deck lists would do everyone some good but that isn't the case. You know it, I know it. get off it
I fully intend to "get off it" as I see no further reason beyond this post to address your derailment of the thread due to your dissatisfaction at being spoonfed information. As has been mentioned, sideboard creation is highly meta-dependent. I can tell you why I sideboard what I do, but it would be generic at best and not at all conducive to your meta unless you play in my local area. If you feel further need to derail and not constructively contribute to the discussion, that is surely your prerogative.
As has been mentioned, sideboard creation is highly meta-dependent.
I don't believe this is true. We all build form the same card pool and read the same articles and for the most part get the same information and build from that. This meta-dependent side board rule is a myth that you have been taught to believe. It's a lie.
Now, before I break it down, I can NOT take credit for this list. This is the list Gerry Thompson used to make top 8 at SCG Invitationals: Indianapolis.
Let's break down the creature suite:
Desecration Demon: This card is just obvious in a mono-black deck. A 6/6 on turn four is powerful, and also adds two for the devotion count.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel: The best common in Theros in my opinion. When it comes down, I generally deal 5 and gain 5, while adding two more to my future devotion count.
Nightveil Specter: Do I really have to say it? THREE FREAKING DEVOTION TO BLACK ON A FLIER THAT ALSO BUILDS A MANA BASE AND STEALS CARDS THIS DUDE IS NOT A JOKE.
Pack Rat: My personal champ of this deck. You have a mid-late game Thoughtseize? Cycle it for a copy of Pack Rat that adds one to my devotion count, and exponentially grows. Huge synergy with Mutavault.
Erebos, God of the Dead: He's not necessary per-se, but man is he good when he's out. He completely stops any life gain in a mirror, and allows for card advantage, which is always a plus for black. Plus a 5/7 indestructible body. Also, see: how to shut down Sphinx's Revelation.
Instants, Sorceries, Enchantments, and Prophetic Prism??
Thoughtseize: This card defines standard. There is absolutely no deck that you wouldn't want to Thoughtseize turn one. Mono Blue? Let's get their two drop. Control? Let's get our own plays in. Mirror? Bye bye Thoughtseize or Nightveil Specter. Planeswalkers? Not a problem.
Devour Flesh: This card is pretty sweet against mid-range or control, when they don't run a lot of creatures. Or against a Blood Baron of Vizkopa that you can't do anything else against. Really good in the Esper matchup.
Hero's Downfall: Dreadbore for black, and also just pretty strong. Hits Obzedat, Desecration Demon, etc. Just an obvious choice for removal.
Ultimate Price: Hits mono-colored creatures, which let me tell you, is a HUGE part of the meta. There is rarely a time where I say, "man, I wish I didn't have this in hand."
Underworld Connections: Your engine. This card not only provides two for your devotion, but you get to draw cards; all the time. Too powerful not to include.
Prophetic Lens: This thing is sweet. It lets me draw a card when it comes in, taps for any colored mana, which allows me to play off of Nightveil Specter.
NO DOOM BLADES MAIN?? WHY NOT??
Black is a huge part of this meta, and I feel like a Doom Blade mainboard is just going to sit there more than anything. I'd rather it be anything else, and if necessary, I board them in Game 2.
I have to go for now, but will continue updating with more info. If you have questions, please ask!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: UW UW DreamCrush WU
EDH: WUG Jenara of the Pump GUW UR Niv-Mizzet the Firemind RU UUU Arcum DANG-SON UUU
I don't believe this is true. We all build form the same card pool and read the same articles and for the most part get the same information and build from that. This meta-dependent side board rule is a myth that you have been taught to believe. It's a lie.
I fail to see how this is a lie. If I'm playing Golgari rock and you're playing mono-black, there will be vast differences in what I board vs. what you board. Black Devotion right now is splashing into all 4 colors. While there are certain main deck staples that are shared the decks (and thus sideboard) will have access to a plethora of other answers. Sure, certain cards like Dark Betrayal and Duress will find niche roles in most SBs, but there are plenty of other valid options depending on what you're splashing. To think that there is a universal SB construction to meet all criteria is simply naive.
I have amended my original decklist post to address my own choices, but again, these only answer why my deck is built how it is, not mono-black as a whole.
I don't believe this is true. We all build form the same card pool and read the same articles and for the most part get the same information and build from that. This meta-dependent side board rule is a myth that you have been taught to believe. It's a lie.
Different metas result in different decks being popular. At one store in my area control is 75% of the metagame. At the store I usually play at red based aggro is 75% of the metagame. Depending on the store I choose to play at, I have considerably different sideboard needs. Both of those metas are different than what I could expect at an Open or a PTQ which would again need different sideboards.
Different metas result in different decks being popular. At one store in my area control is 75% of the metagame. At the store I usually play at red based aggro is 75% of the metagame. Depending on the store I choose to play at, I have considerably different sideboard needs. Both of those metas are different than what I could expect at an Open or a PTQ which would again need different sideboards.
I completely understand that but saying that sideboards are meta - dependent instead of actually explaining sideboard options for different match ups is a cop out. I understand you run different stuff for an 80% control meta and different stuff for a 50-50 split what I am trying to emphasize is that no matter the meta there is a solid option for every match up and some people here need to know what that is. Help people instead of just saying side boarding is meta dependent. WE KNOW THAT.
Have you been having trouble with Rakdos Aggro?
I find it harder to beat than MUD and MRD because it dodges most of our removal and has as fast a clock as MUD. I've been thinking of upping the ammount of Dark Betrayals in the SB but don't know what to take out, my meta for this friday most probably will be: 4 Esper, 1 Azorius, 2 Colossal Gruul, 3 MRD, 3 MUD, 2 Rakdos Aggro and 2 Mythic Midrange.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yes sir, I take fantasy art and character design commissions, PM me for rates.
I don't believe this is true. We all build form the same card pool and read the same articles and for the most part get the same information and build from that. This meta-dependent side board rule is a myth that you have been taught to believe. It's a lie.
This post is really silly and shows that you don't actually know what you're talking about. If you just jam 15 cards in your sideboard without thinking about your metagame you're a bad player and deserve to lose.
@ MetalMatan, why doesn't the list run the fourth Downfall? Just makes for too many 3 cost spells or what?
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
You guys seem to think that this meta is wide and diverse and people are playing different decks from region to region. NEWS FLASH! They're not. There are about 5 competitive decks that you will see at any given event in any region. This side boarding for your meta game is a cop out. You build your main deck and sideboard to deal with whatever weaknesses you may have. That's it. It's not as complicated as you are making it appear, it just seems that way because no one has done a break down. New and returning players read this thread and can't figure out what to board when. That's all I'm saying.
I completely understand that but saying that sideboards are meta - dependent instead of actually explaining sideboard options for different match ups is a cop out. I understand you run different stuff for an 80% control meta and different stuff for a 50-50 split what I am trying to emphasize is that no matter the meta there is a solid option for every match up and some people here need to know what that is. Help people instead of just saying side boarding is meta dependent. WE KNOW THAT.
Part of deciding on how many slots to devote to a deck has to do with it's popularity. If you're expecting MUD to be 20% of the meta, and you have the choice of sideboarding 3 cards for a 47% match win or 5 cards for a 54% match win, you'll probably want to go with the 5. At the same time though if you're only expecting it to be 3% of the meta and you could use those slots on decks that are more popular, maybe you're ok with only having 3 cards.
Sideboards are very meta dependent. What you seem to be trying to get at is the concept of Elephanting a sideboard which is a process where you go through and decide what 60 you're playing in every single matchup, and then pick your 60 MB/15 SB from there.
As for there just being 5 decks, people play a lot more than just the 5 most competitive lists.
Alrighty, so I have been having some trouble figuring out what to sideboard in and out in many matchups lately and have regrettably found myself going 61-63 in the MD after SB which is obviously not desirable.
So obviously I need more lifebane in the side and am working on that but how should I board against let's say Esper, given it's popularity?
Something like -2 Pack Rat, -1 or 2 Lilliana, -1 to 2 thoughtsieze, -UP and r Devour Flesh (maybe leave DF in there)... For like +1 Erebos, +3 Durress, or something like that?
What about the mirror? I never know what to take out to get to 60.. Also I saw somene post that they take out DD in the mirror... is this right? He seems like such a boss when he hits I don't know if I can bring myself to take him out even in the mirror.
Basically I need some major SB halp! And you think I should go -1 Nikthos +1 Mutavault? Makes sense to me as nikthos can be kinda lack luster.. thing is it goes great with corrupt and doing crazy shenanigans late game with underoworld.
In addition I think what Friday is trying to say is that regardless of your individual player field (which should only matter a little bit) at any competitive tournament you will see certain decks that have proven themselves to be competitive. It is important to understand that out of your entire meta, it is still likely that globally, regardless of location, there will be some consistency in what decks are being seen. So it is more important to prepare for these established decks than it is to try to pinpoint what people are playing in your local "meta" and respond to this. It is an interesting theory that I mostly agree with, although I think there are sometimes freak occurrences like a FNM meta being 90% aggro or something crazy (FNM is a low sample size) like that. I think I see your point though (let me know if I murdered that).
You guys seem to think that this meta is wide and diverse and people are playing different decks from region to region. NEWS FLASH! They're not. There are about 5 competitive decks that you will see at any given event in any region. This side boarding for your meta game is a cop out. You build your main deck and sideboard to deal with whatever weaknesses you may have. That's it. It's not as complicated as you are making it appear, it just seems that way because no one has done a break down. New and returning players read this thread and can't figure out what to board when. That's all I'm saying.
As it would seem that you are tapped in and tuned to the meta nationwide, perhaps you could please enlighten us with your insight and contribute something other than useless banter and arguments about how we are all wrong.
This needs to be addressed. The primer is lacking a decent sideboarding breakdown. It seems that even in the primer deciding what color to splash is diluting our basic knowledge of how the core of the deck functions and making sideboarding take a back seat to the great splash debate. The majority of your games are played POST BOARD. Knowing what to sideboard in is extremely important. Throwing up a decklist with no comments just throwing up your splash green list with no other information is pointless. It helps no one.
Can we PLEASE get a sideboarding guide for MONO BLACK DEVOTION ?!
This is going to hurt, because aggro in my opinion is a tough match up. You'll want to side in as much removal as possible, and possibly the extra pack rats. This will give you the best chance in game 2. You don't need the hand disruption like Thoughtsieze mb against aggro.
AGAINST CONTROL
Bring in the pack rats, possibly a few lifebanes over nightviels (to peek at their hand), duress's over creature removal (you'll only need the hero's downfalls.. control doesn't run many creatures) and 1 or two pithing needles to stop Aetherling.
AGAINST MIDRANGE
Depending on the deck, you may want a little bit more removal and spell disruption. But midrange is an easy match up for us so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
AGAINST MIRROR
Bring in Erebos, Ratchet Bomb (for Pack Rats), Dark Betrayals, Duress too.
@ MetalMatan, why doesn't the list run the fourth Downfall? Just makes for too many 3 cost spells or what?
You got it. I've already got 4 Nightveils and 4 underworld connections in the 3 spot, and I generally want my spot removal to be cheaper, but because it's so good, I had to put it in as a 3 of.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: UW UW DreamCrush WU
EDH: WUG Jenara of the Pump GUW UR Niv-Mizzet the Firemind RU UUU Arcum DANG-SON UUU
You got it. I've already got 4 Nightveils and 4 underworld connections in the 3 spot, and I generally want my spot removal to be cheaper, but because it's so good, I had to put it in as a 3 of.
That's a mistake. We don't have a "catch all" creature/plains removal in mono black other then Hero's Downfall.
Your deck should run 8 removal. 4 2 mana, 4 3 mana. If it doesn't run that much, you will be in a lot of trouble in matches.
@Friday- take chill pill. If you found information to be lacking for you; remember, it might be helpful to others. If the statement "that's all I am saying" appears from the aggressor; the conversation was fairly pointless. Uncle Isty writes perfectly fine and generally meta calls are in your "grass lawn" to deal with. So get off his lawn!
Won the past 2 FNM's with Mono black devotion list from the big 1st place deck to make waves. I added 1 more pithing needles, Shrine land, and am considering a 4 Duress in side Board. Got to keep 4 Lifebane Zombie, 2 pack rat, and devour flesh though. It's splitting hairs getting a good side board for this deck of anti agro and control.
This is going to seem like a terribly dumb question but I am returning to the game for the first time in three years and am obviously not in the know. I have playtested a MB deck quite a few times on cockatrice and must say I really like it... except for pack rats. Every time I have one in my hand and/or play one all I can think is "meh" Id rather have a specter or something..Rarely, if ever do I have so much mana where Im like "Ill tap 3 AND discard a card" to make two measly 2/2 rats.
I just don't understand why the pack rat is so heavily used and/or liked. I must be missing something.. possible synergy with another card? I mean unless you have a totally dead card in your hand like maybe a corrupt when you're totally mana screwed I don't see it.
This is going to seem like a terribly dumb question but I am returning to the game for the first time in three years and am obviously not in the know. I have playtested a MB deck quite a few times on cockatrice and must say I really like it... except for pack rats. Every time I have one in my hand and/or play one all I can think is "meh" Id rather have a specter or something..Rarely, if ever do I have so much mana where Im like "Ill tap 3 AND discard a card" to make two measly 2/2 rats.
I just don't understand why the pack rat is so heavily used and/or liked. I must be missing something.. possible synergy with another card? I mean unless you have a totally dead card in your hand like maybe a corrupt when you're totally mana screwed I don't see it.
Thanks guys.
Actually play the deck more and report back. Pack rat + Mutavault = 4 damage. Late game thoughtsieze with opponent having no hand + pack rat = non dead card. I have made 5 pack rats for the win cause there were no creatures to kill on board (mazes end decks). Play test more at FNM and report back.
Correct, synergy with Mutavault allows for the rats p/t to jump on activation. Several lists run 2x/2x split deck/SB. Vs. Aggro, SB in the other 2 and create a rat army. With Underworld Connections running as card advantage, you can quickly overwhelm the board. The tokens are also copies of pack rat and contribute to devotion as well.
Don't try to talk down to me. If you say you can give a comprehensive sideboarding guide for MONO BLACK DEVOTION - do it.
Still not sure the green splash is required, decay was alright but not outstanding, mistcutter helped me put away match against mono blue that I was probably winning anyway. With 10 G sources, hitting green was never a problem all day and I never had an issue casting specter on curve. Never got to use prism to cast spells I didn't have land for but I like that small utility.
Mutavault was great all day. Definately like it over Nykthos as a way to build big rats quickly and Nykthos ussually is good only in games we are winning anyway (i.e have 4 + devotion on the field).
We split the cash in top 8 ($200 not a bad day ) but I lost my first top 8 match against another Monu U deck. It went to 3 games, game 1 I got run over by their curve of 2 drop into Thassa into bident, game 2 I won with a solo skylasher on T2 and mutavaults into like 5 removal spells. Game 3 was close critical decision on T1 thoughtsize: I could've taken Master, Bident or Specter. I had a Specter of my own and no removal and he had only 2 lands and none in hand so I took the Specter. He proceeded to draw 2 running lands and a Thassa and I drew no removal for the whole games. I also made a questionable decision on Turn 4 to cast my second specter instead of Demon as I knew he had the master. Demon to preasure or force him to start sacing creatures probably would've been the better play.
Here is the list. I still think it is solid, not sure if mono Black is just not better. The deck does struggle against the new Naya and BRW control decks running 4 Assemble. What do you guys think about Illness in the Ranks as sideboard tech? It hurts pack rat but shuts off Elspeth and Assemble where we don't thoughtsieze them.
4 Mutavault
12 Swamps
4 Golgari guildgate
4 Overgrown tomb
1 Breeding pool
25 lands
Threats
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Pack rat
14 Threats
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Underworld connections
1 Whip of erebos
1 Erebos god of the dead
1 Prophetic prism
11 Utility spells
Removal
3 Ultimate price
4 Hero's Downfall
3 Abrupt decay
10 Removal
2 Devour flesh
2 Doom blade
3 Lifebane zombie
1 Erebos God of the Dead
2 Mistcutter hydra
2 Skylasher
1 Pithing needle
2 Pack rat
Sideboarding:
Mono blue
-1 Whip of Erebos
-2 Pack Rat
-1 Erebos
-3 Ultimate price
+2 Miscutter hydra
+2 Skylasher
+3 Doom blade
Pretty logical I think. Hydra and Skylasher are better threats than Pack rat and Erebos. Whip is too slow and Doom blade is better than Ultimate price due to Wierds and Judges Familiar
Esper
-3 Ultimate Price
-2 Pack rat
+3 Lifebane Zombie
+ Erebos, God of the Dead
+1 pithing needle
Pack rat out because of Verdict and D Sphere. Lifebane for Baron. Rest is obvious.
GR Devotion
+ 3 Doom Blade
+3 Lifebane zombie
+1 Devour flesh
-1 Whip of Erebos
-3 Decay
-3 Specter
Removal in. Lifebane is better than Specter here and Whip because they do damage in big chunks and hard to race.
Mono black devotion
+2 pack rat
+1 Devour Flesh
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead
-4 Desecration Demon
Demon is worst threat in the mirror IMO. Devour flesh for T2 rat or T3 Specter. Erebos is critical in the mirror making their Whips, Gray merchants worse.
This is a forum. Not a help desk. We come here to discuss not demand guides.
Side boarding is all down to the meta your place is devoted to. There's already various post giving sideboard examples and reasons for their choices. If you're not willing to so your own deduction based on others' comments then you shouldn't come to forums. Go find a deck guide instead.
Sorry that you feel it condescending, but your original post criticizing posting my own list as not having enough substance and fiber to help you out left me at a quandary as most people can independently evaluate a deck in the competitive subforum. If you would like I would be more than happy to detail my card choices for this particular deck and its sideboard cboices. But as I am not the progenitor of this thread it's a bit presumptuous of me to put my own primer on top of it, wouldn't you agree? I will gladly amend my original decklist post to be more inclusive for you. Also, regarding a comprehensive sideboard strategy, as splashing for the 4 other colors is rather popular it becomes increasingly tough to accurately give a rundown of all good cards. Perhaps you may contribute your own ideas as well?
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
By your logic we should all just post deck lists and nothing more because we should all be capable of obtaining all the information we desire from said deck lists. get real. I never even mentioned you or your list, it just so happens that you fit my description of posts lacking substance. If we were all geniuses and had mind reading capabilities maybe a thread full of deck lists would do everyone some good but that isn't the case. You know it, I know it. get off it
Yes, there are various posts about various things. Mostly splash debate and misleading claims about card choices. You are correct that this isn't a help desk. You seem to be very unwilling to help. You can't even answer the most direct of questions. Where is this deck guide you speak of? Maybe I wouldn't read forums if I can find relevant information without having to wade through the babble.
I fully intend to "get off it" as I see no further reason beyond this post to address your derailment of the thread due to your dissatisfaction at being spoonfed information. As has been mentioned, sideboard creation is highly meta-dependent. I can tell you why I sideboard what I do, but it would be generic at best and not at all conducive to your meta unless you play in my local area. If you feel further need to derail and not constructively contribute to the discussion, that is surely your prerogative.
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
I don't believe this is true. We all build form the same card pool and read the same articles and for the most part get the same information and build from that. This meta-dependent side board rule is a myth that you have been taught to believe. It's a lie.
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Nightveil Specter
3 Pack Rat
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Thoughtseize
3 Devour Flesh
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Ultimate Price
Other Spells
4 Underworld Connections
1 Prophetic Prism
1 Pack Rat
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Duress
3 Doom Blade
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
3 Lifebane Zombie
Now, before I break it down, I can NOT take credit for this list. This is the list Gerry Thompson used to make top 8 at SCG Invitationals: Indianapolis.
Let's break down the creature suite:
Gray Merchant of Asphodel: The best common in Theros in my opinion. When it comes down, I generally deal 5 and gain 5, while adding two more to my future devotion count.
Nightveil Specter: Do I really have to say it? THREE FREAKING DEVOTION TO BLACK ON A FLIER THAT ALSO BUILDS A MANA BASE AND STEALS CARDS THIS DUDE IS NOT A JOKE.
Pack Rat: My personal champ of this deck. You have a mid-late game Thoughtseize? Cycle it for a copy of Pack Rat that adds one to my devotion count, and exponentially grows. Huge synergy with Mutavault.
Erebos, God of the Dead: He's not necessary per-se, but man is he good when he's out. He completely stops any life gain in a mirror, and allows for card advantage, which is always a plus for black. Plus a 5/7 indestructible body. Also, see: how to shut down Sphinx's Revelation.
Instants, Sorceries, Enchantments, and Prophetic Prism??
Thoughtseize: This card defines standard. There is absolutely no deck that you wouldn't want to Thoughtseize turn one. Mono Blue? Let's get their two drop. Control? Let's get our own plays in. Mirror? Bye bye Thoughtseize or Nightveil Specter. Planeswalkers? Not a problem.
Devour Flesh: This card is pretty sweet against mid-range or control, when they don't run a lot of creatures. Or against a Blood Baron of Vizkopa that you can't do anything else against. Really good in the Esper matchup.
Hero's Downfall: Dreadbore for black, and also just pretty strong. Hits Obzedat, Desecration Demon, etc. Just an obvious choice for removal.
Ultimate Price: Hits mono-colored creatures, which let me tell you, is a HUGE part of the meta. There is rarely a time where I say, "man, I wish I didn't have this in hand."
Underworld Connections: Your engine. This card not only provides two for your devotion, but you get to draw cards; all the time. Too powerful not to include.
Prophetic Lens: This thing is sweet. It lets me draw a card when it comes in, taps for any colored mana, which allows me to play off of Nightveil Specter.
NO DOOM BLADES MAIN?? WHY NOT??
Black is a huge part of this meta, and I feel like a Doom Blade mainboard is just going to sit there more than anything. I'd rather it be anything else, and if necessary, I board them in Game 2.
I have to go for now, but will continue updating with more info. If you have questions, please ask!
Standard:
UW UW DreamCrush WU
EDH:
WUG Jenara of the Pump GUW
UR Niv-Mizzet the Firemind RU
UUU Arcum DANG-SON UUU
To see my Azusa digital alter click here
For Akroma, Angel of Fury click here
For Bayou and Badlands click here
I fail to see how this is a lie. If I'm playing Golgari rock and you're playing mono-black, there will be vast differences in what I board vs. what you board. Black Devotion right now is splashing into all 4 colors. While there are certain main deck staples that are shared the decks (and thus sideboard) will have access to a plethora of other answers. Sure, certain cards like Dark Betrayal and Duress will find niche roles in most SBs, but there are plenty of other valid options depending on what you're splashing. To think that there is a universal SB construction to meet all criteria is simply naive.
I have amended my original decklist post to address my own choices, but again, these only answer why my deck is built how it is, not mono-black as a whole.
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
Different metas result in different decks being popular. At one store in my area control is 75% of the metagame. At the store I usually play at red based aggro is 75% of the metagame. Depending on the store I choose to play at, I have considerably different sideboard needs. Both of those metas are different than what I could expect at an Open or a PTQ which would again need different sideboards.
I completely understand that but saying that sideboards are meta - dependent instead of actually explaining sideboard options for different match ups is a cop out. I understand you run different stuff for an 80% control meta and different stuff for a 50-50 split what I am trying to emphasize is that no matter the meta there is a solid option for every match up and some people here need to know what that is. Help people instead of just saying side boarding is meta dependent. WE KNOW THAT.
I find it harder to beat than MUD and MRD because it dodges most of our removal and has as fast a clock as MUD. I've been thinking of upping the ammount of Dark Betrayals in the SB but don't know what to take out, my meta for this friday most probably will be: 4 Esper, 1 Azorius, 2 Colossal Gruul, 3 MRD, 3 MUD, 2 Rakdos Aggro and 2 Mythic Midrange.
This post is really silly and shows that you don't actually know what you're talking about. If you just jam 15 cards in your sideboard without thinking about your metagame you're a bad player and deserve to lose.
@ MetalMatan, why doesn't the list run the fourth Downfall? Just makes for too many 3 cost spells or what?
Part of deciding on how many slots to devote to a deck has to do with it's popularity. If you're expecting MUD to be 20% of the meta, and you have the choice of sideboarding 3 cards for a 47% match win or 5 cards for a 54% match win, you'll probably want to go with the 5. At the same time though if you're only expecting it to be 3% of the meta and you could use those slots on decks that are more popular, maybe you're ok with only having 3 cards.
Sideboards are very meta dependent. What you seem to be trying to get at is the concept of Elephanting a sideboard which is a process where you go through and decide what 60 you're playing in every single matchup, and then pick your 60 MB/15 SB from there.
As for there just being 5 decks, people play a lot more than just the 5 most competitive lists.
4x Desecration Demon
2x Pack Rat
4x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Thoughtsieze
4x Heroes Downfall
1x Ultimate Price
1x Devour flesh
2x Corrupt
4x Underworld Connections
1x Erebos, God of the dead
2x Whip of Erebos
19x Swamp
2x Temple of Deceit
3x Mutavault
1x NIkthos shrine of nik
So obviously I need more lifebane in the side and am working on that but how should I board against let's say Esper, given it's popularity?
Something like -2 Pack Rat, -1 or 2 Lilliana, -1 to 2 thoughtsieze, -UP and r Devour Flesh (maybe leave DF in there)... For like +1 Erebos, +3 Durress, or something like that?
What about the mirror? I never know what to take out to get to 60.. Also I saw somene post that they take out DD in the mirror... is this right? He seems like such a boss when he hits I don't know if I can bring myself to take him out even in the mirror.
Basically I need some major SB halp! And you think I should go -1 Nikthos +1 Mutavault? Makes sense to me as nikthos can be kinda lack luster.. thing is it goes great with corrupt and doing crazy shenanigans late game with underoworld.
In addition I think what Friday is trying to say is that regardless of your individual player field (which should only matter a little bit) at any competitive tournament you will see certain decks that have proven themselves to be competitive. It is important to understand that out of your entire meta, it is still likely that globally, regardless of location, there will be some consistency in what decks are being seen. So it is more important to prepare for these established decks than it is to try to pinpoint what people are playing in your local "meta" and respond to this. It is an interesting theory that I mostly agree with, although I think there are sometimes freak occurrences like a FNM meta being 90% aggro or something crazy (FNM is a low sample size) like that. I think I see your point though (let me know if I murdered that).
As it would seem that you are tapped in and tuned to the meta nationwide, perhaps you could please enlighten us with your insight and contribute something other than useless banter and arguments about how we are all wrong.
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
I'll write one for you.
2 Duress
2 Dark Betrayal
1 Devour Flesh
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Lifebane Zombie
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
2 Pack Rat
AGAINST AGGRO:
This is going to hurt, because aggro in my opinion is a tough match up. You'll want to side in as much removal as possible, and possibly the extra pack rats. This will give you the best chance in game 2. You don't need the hand disruption like Thoughtsieze mb against aggro.
AGAINST CONTROL
Bring in the pack rats, possibly a few lifebanes over nightviels (to peek at their hand), duress's over creature removal (you'll only need the hero's downfalls.. control doesn't run many creatures) and 1 or two pithing needles to stop Aetherling.
AGAINST MIDRANGE
Depending on the deck, you may want a little bit more removal and spell disruption. But midrange is an easy match up for us so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
AGAINST MIRROR
Bring in Erebos, Ratchet Bomb (for Pack Rats), Dark Betrayals, Duress too.
Mono Black B
Mono Blue U
Esper Control BUW (Soon)
Commander
Mindseize BRU
Esper BWU
Modern
Black Deck Wins B
Goblin Deck Wins R
You got it. I've already got 4 Nightveils and 4 underworld connections in the 3 spot, and I generally want my spot removal to be cheaper, but because it's so good, I had to put it in as a 3 of.
Standard:
UW UW DreamCrush WU
EDH:
WUG Jenara of the Pump GUW
UR Niv-Mizzet the Firemind RU
UUU Arcum DANG-SON UUU
To see my Azusa digital alter click here
For Akroma, Angel of Fury click here
For Bayou and Badlands click here
That's a mistake. We don't have a "catch all" creature/plains removal in mono black other then Hero's Downfall.
Your deck should run 8 removal. 4 2 mana, 4 3 mana. If it doesn't run that much, you will be in a lot of trouble in matches.
Mono Black B
Mono Blue U
Esper Control BUW (Soon)
Commander
Mindseize BRU
Esper BWU
Modern
Black Deck Wins B
Goblin Deck Wins R
Won the past 2 FNM's with Mono black devotion list from the big 1st place deck to make waves. I added 1 more pithing needles, Shrine land, and am considering a 4 Duress in side Board. Got to keep 4 Lifebane Zombie, 2 pack rat, and devour flesh though. It's splitting hairs getting a good side board for this deck of anti agro and control.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I just don't understand why the pack rat is so heavily used and/or liked. I must be missing something.. possible synergy with another card? I mean unless you have a totally dead card in your hand like maybe a corrupt when you're totally mana screwed I don't see it.
Thanks guys.
Actually play the deck more and report back. Pack rat + Mutavault = 4 damage. Late game thoughtsieze with opponent having no hand + pack rat = non dead card. I have made 5 pack rats for the win cause there were no creatures to kill on board (mazes end decks). Play test more at FNM and report back.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW