Well thanks for the advice, Pro Tour hero. Whatever you mean by editing out statistics, it's false. Do you want a complete report on every game? Because I kept the replays.
For future reference, whenever you are accused of falsehood, reply with the evidence.
Anyways, I have been out of the loop for the past few days, but I can still help a bit.
Desecration Demon, while having flaws, is one of the best cards out there for our deck. There is a reason for the $10 price tag, and its not because he bakes cookies. By refusing to use the most optimal cards for a deck, you are hurting your own chances in the long run. And there are plenty of reasons why he is good. For instance, against Control decks, he is an absolute monster. Either they answer him, or they lose. RDW has to waste multiple burn-spells on him, and against mirror/midrange, if they lack an answer, they are behind further. Against Weenie and Token decks, yes, he is a bit underwhelming, but not completely useless.
Lowering the curve of the deck would be a great idea. Flooding the 3-drops is not. Our Turn 3 is already a crucial turn for us, and proves to be either the most advantageous or the most disastrous. By adding in a second creature that is a 3-drop, you give yourself more options to make a mistake.
I find it funny how recently, everyone stopped playing Read the Bones. I used to love it, but the lose of life was not easily dealt with in the end.
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Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Does anyone have the deck that Brad Nelson / Todd Anderson posted about at SCG (Premium.) Here is the article if you have premium and don't mind posting it.
Apparently Nelson is playing this at the Grand Prix and said it's one of the best decks in the format. Hopefully someone can post this before I leave to go to an event tomorrow morning :x
Here's my report on the Green splash version I ran to 2nd place at Game Day today. Feeling pretty good about the deck, some of the games go rather long but I enjoy it. I haven't played a game yet against control but from what I'm hearing, I'll be happy to meet one.
Now right away, there's an obvious omission here. I didn't have Hero's Downfall. I am immediately planning to revise the decklist with:
-2 Putrefy
-1 Devour Flesh (to SB)
-1 Doom Blade (SB)
+3 Hero's Downfall
So for the sake of planning, the real decklist:
Maindeck Ratchet Bombs were a metagame decision; looked like there were tons of Gx Aggro, U Aggro out there and I love to kill multiple 1- or 2-drops at once. Also a beast against GR Monsters to stumble the dork train. Still fairly happy with them; they would live in the sideboard if the meta shifted. In the main deck it's never an awful card, but it is often very slow to become relevant.
I'm also considering tweaking the removal a bit more to better deal with Desecration Demon, especially post-board. I felt like the fact that Abrupt Decay didn't hit him was really screwing up my ability to deal with him in mirror matches. Wondering if I really need Devour Flesh in the SB, because it sucks against Mutavault which seems to be everywhere. But then, what choice do I have against Blood Baron?
Round 1: vs. Mono Blue Aggro
Game 1 feels unwinnable. I can kill a couple creatures, but the next four kill me. Fortunately I can sideboard in 12 cards against him, and games 2 and 3 are a grindy attrition war that I shouldn't lose. I board in everything but Pithing Needle and Devour Flesh, dropping Thoughtseize, Desecration Demon, Lifebane Zombie with the intent to stabilize and ride it out consistently. Very swingy matchup, probably 30/70 G1 and 70/30 G2&3. 1-0 matches, 2-1 games
Round 2: vs. UB Midrange (Big Blue)
Very grindy from the beginning, but Thoughtseize and just enough removal keep him from getting much online. Ashiok runs straight into Abrupt Decay all day; I can see him getting nasty if left unchecked, but whenever he misses you know it's safe to ignore him for a turn and remove him at leisure. Game 2 was Nightveil Specters everywhere, and I got to cast his Aetherling to close it out. 2-0 matches, 4-1 games
Round 3: vs. BU Gray Merchant Devotion
Essentially a mirror match, he has the Mutavaults and I have the extra removal. An extremely close match; I got hosed by bad draws one game, but the other two were back and forth. Fade into Antiquity proved its worth here and Underworld Connections died left and right, but I didn't quite get there. Later he mentioned running 4 to my 3, which probably canceled out some of the advantage I got from blowing them up. Desecration Demon not being hit by Abrupt Decay really sucks here as well. 2-1 matches, 5-3 games
Round 4: vs. BR Gray Merchant Devotion
Another near mirror match. Our removal kept each other off creatures for long. One game had a painful Rakdos's Return for 3, but Whip of Erebos let me recover with the creatures I lost anyway. I closed out a long Game 2 with double Merchant, and then Game 3 saw double Slaughter Games from my T1 Thoughtseize, which of course led to me playing without Gray Merchants. Still wound up getting there with Erebos. 3-1 matches, 7-4 games
Round 5: vs. N/A, Draw into Top 8 3-1-1 matches, 7-4 games
Top 8: vs. Mono Blue Aggro
Same as Round 1. He was hoping not to face me because it went out exactly as we expected; game 1 he melted my face, games 2 and 3 I won the attrition war. Game 2 actually started with a bad stumble and wound up very close as he had lethal unblockable on the board, but was forced to play around the unknown removal spell I could stop him with before I untapped and killed him. He guessed wrong and Golgari Charm saved me from lethal damage. Game 3 was a brutal curve into triple Merchant. 4-1-1 matches, 9-5 games
Top 4: vs. GR Monsters
Here's a match where Ratchet Bomb and Gaze of Granite really shined. Arbor Colossus and Sylvan Primordial scared away my Desecration Demons, but I was very happy with Disciple of Phenax taking his big dudes instead. The name of the game was steal/remove your big dudes, sweep your dorks, and if possible, Abrupt Decay any living Voyaging Satyrs. The first two games got off to very weird starts for both of us, but thankfully neither had us fully mana screwed and they got interesting regardless. Game 3 ended with a backbreaking Gaze of Granite into Merchant, next turn Putrefy+Whip Merchant. Obviously a 4th Lifebane Zombie would be ideal for this matchup, but I like the 3/3 split and don't think it warrants a sideboard slot. 5-1-1 matches, 11-6 games
Finals: vs. BU Gray Merchant Devotion
Same as Round 3. I took Game 1, but then Game 2 was ugly: Swamp Swamp Nykthos Underworld Specter Decay looked like a safe enough keep until he Thoughtseized my Underworld and then I didn't draw a land for 5 turns. I died to double Mutavault... Game 3 easily could have gone either way, but ended with him dropping Erebos then 3 Desecration Demons in a row just when it looked like I was going to stabilize and take over with Pack Rats. 5-2-1 matches, 12-8 games
Pack Rat is a boss in the late game. I'm not sure I understand his role against aggro, because 2 2/2s are almost as useless as 1 1/1 against them. I treat it as a 5-drop for attrition matchups, as it's a big risk letting him get killed before a copy is made. Great way to pitch land, and pretty quickly he becomes better than anything you could draw. I only got to see his power in G3 of the finals where he nearly won it all, and didn't yet have the pleasure of cranking out rats with Underworld Connections online to power it.
Desecration Demon has been letting me down all weekend. He never gets to block when it matters, period. Still, I think 4 maindeck is the right decision because he is so hard to deal with for a deck that can't remove him and isn't trying to finish you off the turn after you cast him.
Nightveil Specter was a huge house, but then look at the matchups I played. Lifebane Zombie came out much more often than he did. I think he's fine as 2-3 maindeck; if I moved him it would be to the sideboard at the very least. The mana base is perfectly smooth for his casting cost with 22/24 B/U sources and I could probably get away with 4 colorless, though 3 is safer.
Pharika's Cure was in my sideboard at FNM last night, but I cut it. I don't think gaining 2 life is worth the flexibility of any of the other 2-mana removal spells, especially when Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm are on the table. Those, of course, have been amazing. I would consider running Charm MD, but right now it feels a little too narrow.
Mistcutter Hydra lies on the outskirts of my sideboard options, just tantalizing me. But I'm not sure what exactly I'd take out for him. I don't need more cards against control, or more threats against mono blue. I would love a protected blocker against mono blue, but they're probably unblockable anyway. I think Desecration Demon already has this role filled out pretty well.
Gaze of Granite is exactly what I want against 1-2 CMC swarms. It doesn't really want to hit higher than that, so I only found room to bring it in against aggro.
Fade into Antiquity kills whatever gods Thoughtseize missed, especially against aggro-devotion where I want to actually side that out. It definitely rocks in the mirror, where they work together to stop Erebos.
Scavenging Ooze I have not been running. I could see it being pretty good against aggro, might have to test. But I don't think it's very against mono blue aggro's flyers, so I dunno. Since I almost never want to scavenge my own graveyard it relies on theirs, and I don't have a ton of green sources to catch him up really fast.
I realize there are some unconventional choices in the deck, namely Clone, Syncopate, and to a lesser extent, Erebos.
* In my testing so far, Erebos maindeck has been hit-or-miss, but probably worth a 1-of slot simply for the ability to shut off lifelink.
* Clone was just a novelty, but I've never been unhappy to have it in my hand. Outside of copying Merchants, I've hit Blood Baron, Stormbreath Dragon, Thassa, and Master of Waves.
* Syncopate has been an all-star. It is one of the few cards capable of doing something on turn 2, and late-game tends to catch people by surprise. I almost want to move up to 3.
* The 3/3 split between Lifebane and Nightveil seems about right.
* 25 land seems like 1 too many. I'm considering the following changes:
-1 Swamp
-1 Pharika's Cure
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Syncopate
Here's my report on the Green splash version I ran to 2nd place at Game Day today. Feeling pretty good about the deck, some of the games go rather long but I enjoy it. I haven't played a game yet against control but from what I'm hearing, I'll be happy to meet one.
Now right away, there's an obvious omission here. I didn't have Hero's Downfall. I am immediately planning to revise the decklist with:
-2 Putrefy
-1 Devour Flesh (to SB)
-1 Doom Blade (SB)
+3 Hero's Downfall
So for the sake of planning, the real decklist:
Maindeck Ratchet Bombs were a metagame decision; looked like there were tons of Gx Aggro, U Aggro out there and I love to kill multiple 1- or 2-drops at once. Also a beast against GR Monsters to stumble the dork train. Still fairly happy with them; they would live in the sideboard if the meta shifted. In the main deck it's never an awful card, but it is often very slow to become relevant.
I'm also considering tweaking the removal a bit more to better deal with Desecration Demon, especially post-board. I felt like the fact that Abrupt Decay didn't hit him was really screwing up my ability to deal with him in mirror matches. Wondering if I really need Devour Flesh in the SB, because it sucks against Mutavault which seems to be everywhere. But then, what choice do I have against Blood Baron?
Round 1: vs. Mono Blue Aggro
Game 1 feels unwinnable. I can kill a couple creatures, but the next four kill me. Fortunately I can sideboard in 12 cards against him, and games 2 and 3 are a grindy attrition war that I shouldn't lose. I board in everything but Pithing Needle and Devour Flesh, dropping Thoughtseize, Desecration Demon, Lifebane Zombie with the intent to stabilize and ride it out consistently. Very swingy matchup, probably 30/70 G1 and 70/30 G2&3. 1-0 matches, 2-1 games
Round 2: vs. UB Midrange (Big Blue)
Very grindy from the beginning, but Thoughtseize and just enough removal keep him from getting much online. Ashiok runs straight into Abrupt Decay all day; I can see him getting nasty if left unchecked, but whenever he misses you know it's safe to ignore him for a turn and remove him at leisure. Game 2 was Nightveil Specters everywhere, and I got to cast his Aetherling to close it out. 2-0 matches, 4-1 games
Round 3: vs. BU Gray Merchant Devotion
Essentially a mirror match, he has the Mutavaults and I have the extra removal. An extremely close match; I got hosed by bad draws one game, but the other two were back and forth. Fade into Antiquity proved its worth here and Underworld Connections died left and right, but I didn't quite get there. Later he mentioned running 4 to my 3, which probably canceled out some of the advantage I got from blowing them up. Desecration Demon not being hit by Abrupt Decay really sucks here as well. 2-1 matches, 5-3 games
Round 4: vs. BR Gray Merchant Devotion
Another near mirror match. Our removal kept each other off creatures for long. One game had a painful Rakdos's Return for 3, but Whip of Erebos let me recover with the creatures I lost anyway. I closed out a long Game 2 with double Merchant, and then Game 3 saw double Slaughter Games from my T1 Thoughtseize, which of course led to me playing without Gray Merchants. Still wound up getting there with Erebos. 3-1 matches, 7-4 games
Round 5: vs. N/A, Draw into Top 8 3-1-1 matches, 7-4 games
Top 8: vs. Mono Blue Aggro
Same as Round 1. He was hoping not to face me because it went out exactly as we expected; game 1 he melted my face, games 2 and 3 I won the attrition war. Game 2 actually started with a bad stumble and wound up very close as he had lethal unblockable on the board, but was forced to play around the unknown removal spell I could stop him with before I untapped and killed him. He guessed wrong and Golgari Charm saved me from lethal damage. Game 3 was a brutal curve into triple Merchant. 4-1-1 matches, 9-5 games
Top 4: vs. GR Monsters
Here's a match where Ratchet Bomb and Gaze of Granite really shined. Arbor Colossus and Sylvan Primordial scared away my Desecration Demons, but I was very happy with Disciple of Phenax taking his big dudes instead. The name of the game was steal/remove your big dudes, sweep your dorks, and if possible, Abrupt Decay any living Voyaging Satyrs. The first two games got off to very weird starts for both of us, but thankfully neither had us fully mana screwed and they got interesting regardless. Game 3 ended with a backbreaking Gaze of Granite into Merchant, next turn Putrefy+Whip Merchant. Obviously a 4th Lifebane Zombie would be ideal for this matchup, but I like the 3/3 split and don't think it warrants a sideboard slot. 5-1-1 matches, 11-6 games
Finals: vs. BU Gray Merchant Devotion
Same as Round 3. I took Game 1, but then Game 2 was ugly: Swamp Swamp Nykthos Underworld Specter Decay looked like a safe enough keep until he Thoughtseized my Underworld and then I didn't draw a land for 5 turns. I died to double Mutavault... Game 3 easily could have gone either way, but ended with him dropping Erebos then 3 Desecration Demons in a row just when it looked like I was going to stabilize and take over with Pack Rats. 5-2-1 matches, 12-8 games
Pack Rat is a boss in the late game. I'm not sure I understand his role against aggro, because 2 2/2s are almost as useless as 1 1/1 against them. I treat it as a 5-drop for attrition matchups, as it's a big risk letting him get killed before a copy is made. Great way to pitch land, and pretty quickly he becomes better than anything you could draw. I only got to see his power in G3 of the finals where he nearly won it all, and didn't yet have the pleasure of cranking out rats with Underworld Connections online to power it.
Desecration Demon has been letting me down all weekend. He never gets to block when it matters, period. Still, I think 4 maindeck is the right decision because he is so hard to deal with for a deck that can't remove him and isn't trying to finish you off the turn after you cast him.
Nightveil Specter was a huge house, but then look at the matchups I played. Lifebane Zombie came out much more often than he did. I think he's fine as 2-3 maindeck; if I moved him it would be to the sideboard at the very least. The mana base is perfectly smooth for his casting cost with 22/24 B/U sources and I could probably get away with 4 colorless, though 3 is safer.
Pharika's Cure was in my sideboard at FNM last night, but I cut it. I don't think gaining 2 life is worth the flexibility of any of the other 2-mana removal spells, especially when Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm are on the table. Those, of course, have been amazing. I would consider running Charm MD, but right now it feels a little too narrow.
Mistcutter Hydra lies on the outskirts of my sideboard options, just tantalizing me. But I'm not sure what exactly I'd take out for him. I don't need more cards against control, or more threats against mono blue. I would love a protected blocker against mono blue, but they're probably unblockable anyway. I think Desecration Demon already has this role filled out pretty well.
Gaze of Granite is exactly what I want against 1-2 CMC swarms. It doesn't really want to hit higher than that, so I only found room to bring it in against aggro.
Fade into Antiquity kills whatever gods Thoughtseize missed, especially against aggro-devotion where I want to actually side that out. It definitely rocks in the mirror, where they work together to stop Erebos.
Scavenging Ooze I have not been running. I could see it being pretty good against aggro, might have to test. But I don't think it's very against mono blue aggro's flyers, so I dunno. Since I almost never want to scavenge my own graveyard it relies on theirs, and I don't have a ton of green sources to catch him up really fast.
Does anyone have the deck that Brad Nelson / Todd Anderson posted about at SCG (Premium.) Here is the article if you have premium and don't mind posting it.
Apparently Nelson is playing this at the Grand Prix and said it's one of the best decks in the format. Hopefully someone can post this before I leave to go to an event tomorrow morning :x
Sorry, but we are not allowed to post information from the Premium pages. There is a reason why we pay for it.
For those of you playing Green, have you tried Deathrite Shaman? Seems like he and Pack Rat could become VERY good friends quickly. Get rid of land, tap to ramp, ect. ect.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Interesting to see no Pack Rat here. He also opted for the fifth scry land over Nykthos, and he's also playing a second Erebos. This is certainly an interesting build, and probably where I would go if I were to rebuild my deck.
This one lost in the quarter finals last night. It's a brew
This probably more Rock than Black Devotion, but it's pretty awesome. The green splash gives access to more utility and awesome cards,most notably Reaper of the Wilds. The commentators last night kept going on how it improves the quality of the cards in your hand by scrying. This build is pretty awesome, actually. I would watch for this one soon.
This probably more Rock than Black Devotion, but it's pretty awesome. The green splash gives access to more utility and awesome cards,most notably Reaper of the Wilds. The commentators last night kept going on how it improves the quality of the cards in your hand by scrying. This build is pretty awesome, actually. I would watch for this one soon.
To be fair AJ Sacher also questioned the green splash, saying that it doesnt offer that much.
Well the green cards in the main I can defend. Abrupt Decay is pretty good early, Reaper can get out of hand as well. Some of the SB slots though.....Skylasher?
To be fair AJ Sacher also questioned the green splash, saying that it doesnt offer that much.
I don't really like Scavenging Ooze in the deck either, I think it takes too much away from the Black devotion and eats potential Whip targets.
I played in an afternoon Gameday and I was still learning to play with the deck and went 2-2. Went to another Gameday that night at another store.
Tournament Report:
Last night I made it to Top 4 out of 27 people:
Round 1: Loss to RDW
Game 1 got flooded and game 2 I got stuck with 2 Desecration Demons and a Whip against an army of 4 of his guys and I wasn't able to stabilize. (0-2)
Round 2:Win against UWR Token control
This deck is a homebrew by a guy at our LGS and it won him FNM the night before. Plays control magic until he can get out Elspeth or Assemble the Legion with Purphorous and just overwhelm the opponent. Game 1 he got flooded and I Thoughtseized his Elspeth early, he attempted to stabilize with two Assemble the Legions late game, but my Lifebane Zombie snuck damage through his token wall for the win. Game 2 I got 3 Thoughtseize and 2 Duress against him and he got flooded again, wasn't much of a match. (2-0)
Round 3: Win against BR Control
Game 1 we proceed to back and forth play threats and removal to answer them until, after much kill spell flinging on my part, he lands a third Stormbreath Dragon and kills me with it.:-/ Game 2 I got double Thoughtseize and strip two bombs from his hand I lure out his early removal and get 2 Underworld Connections online and a Whip and proceed to eat huge chunks of his life total with Gray Merchant. Game 3 went pretty much the same way as Game 2. (2-1)
Round 4:Win against Esper Control
He either didn't run many counter spells or didn't draw them enough, because I saw only 1 from him the whole game. I don't remember exactly how these games went (it was already after 10pm at this point), but he got Game 1 with a Blood Baron that I didn't draw an answer for and basically he wasn't sure how to answer my threats and let me get Underworld Connections online, the last 2 games, which allowed me to draw into threats and overwhelm him.(2-1)
Round 5: Win against UW Enchantment Pillow Fort
I was 7th at this point and wasn't sure if I was going to draw in so we played. He got land screwed Game 1 and flooded Game 2. I also saw how his deck played throughout the night so I understood the majority of his threats.(2-0)
Top 8: Win against BW Control
I was able to get two Connections and a Whip online then Gray Merchant Sac it to his Desecration Demon and Whip it back the next turn with a Nightveil in play to seal the game. Game 2 he got stuck on 4 lands with 2 Blood Barons in hand, Ouch, easy win. (2-0)
Top 4: Loss to RDW
It started that night with a loss to RDW and it ended that night with a loss to RDW. Game 1 he curves perfectly and I only get some Lifebane Zombies out which he always had a shock for. Game 2 I got my early removal and lay a Nightveil which hits him twice and gets me one of his mountains to play. I get a Whip and an Underworld Connections online Which allows me to Gray Merchant for 9. He drops BTE into Chandra;s Pheonix into Chandra's Pheonix which boosts his Foundry Denizen to 4/1 and he swings with it and the Pheonixs. I trade Gray Merchant with the Denizen and Whip it back next turn for the win. Game 3 was long and torturous; he curves really well again and gets me to 2 life I get Whip online with a Lifebane Zombie and get back up to 5 life. What proceeded after that was me whipping back my army to gain some life drawing a few kill spells to weaken his army and him drawing into more dudes. Eventually I had my 2 Pack Rats come out and me trading them with his guys and Whipping them back to make a token to stick. He ended up winning the top deck war with a Lightning Strike to my last Pack Rat token and him rolling through with 2 Rakdos Cacklers. (1-2)
The card I sided out the most last night was Desecration Demon, aggro always had a sac target and control always had a kill spell. He is a double-edged sword, he can win games and lose games. The deck just can't really function without him right now, because we don't have another 4 drop black creature that is that much of a threat that also adds 2 to Devotion. That is the unfortunate side-effect of having the smallest card pool at this time.
The card I sided out the most last night was Desecration Demon, aggro always had a sac target and control always had a kill spell. He is a double-edged sword, he can win games and lose games. The deck just can't really function without him right now, because we don't have another 4 drop black creature that is that much of a threat that also adds 2 to Devotion. That is the unfortunate side-effect of having the smallest card pool at this time.
Well there is Liliana's Reaver but he is of course more fragile.
Posting this is a potential build, may be less on the devotion heavy side and more geared towards control, but I'm very interested to see how Shadowborn Demons test out alongside Pack Rats and Whips. The idea with Shadowborns is the value they represent. It's essentially Murder attached to a Baneslayer Angel once I have Whip in play. The drawback can be answered by sacrificing Pack Rats and If I can't I'll let the Demon kill itself and launch it at my opponent with the Whip and get a second Murder.
Well first of all, Sign in Blood is not legal in Standard anymore.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel is more devastating to than just killing a dude with Shadowborn. Gray Merchant swings the game in your favor lifewise. More life means more cards. You should be able to just bury them in card advantage from Underworld Connections. Play 3-4
ALSO: In GP Louisville news: Todd Anderson, Brad Nelson and BBD are ALL in the top 8 with Mono Black with the same deck.
Biggest thing is Nightveil Specters over Lifebane in the Main. Also is on the 2-2 split of Doom Blade and Ultimate Price.
That list is very close to many of ours. What I want to know is what decks did he face, did he ever side out specters and were there games where he ran both lbz and specter. I'm assuming they don't replace each other in matchups. I won game day but felt like I got lucky against aggressive strategies but hard to denounce three players in top 8. Would like to get more info on their experience
Gone back to 2 Desecration Demon. Still gets sideboarded often. Pithing Needle is what allowed me to win postboard against Gr Monsters. 3 is a good number, since they have so many targets (Garruk, Nylea, Domri, Voyaging Satyr, Polukranos, etc.). Against most non-B devotion decks, naming the God with a Pithing Needle is a very, very good idea.
Current stats: Total: 15 - 4 (on a 6 - 0 streak so far)
For the details (numbers are the match id on Cockatrice for personal reference):
Well BBD just won the Grand Prix with Mono Black devotion taking down the GR Monster deck, showing the power of Pack rat and what happens when you run 12 removal spells and Lifebane Zombies against a green creature deck. Granted his opponent kind of stumbled on lands in two games, BBD did stumble on spells horribly in game 2.
It looks like BBD ended up keeping Specter, Thoughtseize, and Lifebane Zombie all in the main board. I'm curious as to what he took out for the Zombies and additional removal though.
Overall though, a very impressive finish for this list and proves that it has what it needs to take down the current metagame.
It seems like a very memetic thing to say right now, but no, I don't think he's anywhere near Gray Merchant of Asphodel in the 4-of spot. But heh, it means my Demons will be easier to move around, I still need one or two cards.
You need to be running 4 Desecration Demons. I can understand speculation based on your meta and whatever, but if you aren't running four, I don't know what else you could be running.
It brickwalls aggro, it's a huge threat against Control. Yeah, sure, in some situations, it does absolutely nothing. But there is no other card that can do what Desecration Demon does better than he already does. Until the reprint Mutilate, I'll be running 4 DD's in every list.
Also, congrats to BBD on 1st place at GP Louisville with Monoblack Devotion! Does anyone have his list, or is it the same as Todd Andersons?
While I agree that Desecration Demon's downside is a necessary evil and we should always main deck 4, he does not by any means constitute a "brick wall" against aggro. More of a tastefully decorated gate, which their weakest creature holds open for the rest.
Nice to see these results. I wonder how important it will be to run 4 Underworld Connections if the mirror is going to be common. I'm going to be making some tweaks but I'm not sure what I can take out for the fourth copy.
Well BBD just won the Grand Prix with Mono Black devotion taking down the GR Monster deck, showing the power of Pack rat and what happens when you run 12 removal spells and Lifebane Zombies against a green creature deck. Granted his opponent kind of stumbled on lands in two games, BBD did stumble on spells horribly in game 2.
It looks like BBD ended up keeping Specter, Thoughtseize, and Lifebane Zombie all in the main board. I'm curious as to what he took out for the Zombies and additional removal though.
Overall though, a very impressive finish for this list and proves that it has what it needs to take down the current metagame.
i wonder how he sided as well. Like i said earlier, even though the lists played specter main and lbz side, i don't think they were direct substitutes for each other depending on the matchup. I think he just added the LBZs to hate on selesnya or green aggresive decks. I wonder what he brought out (probably erebos, whips and some number of connections i would assume.)
I played this deck at gameday and got 1st place, but I played it because i expected mono u devotion and esper to run rampant in my meta. I think this deck totally destroy them. However, my meta was mostly rdw and white weenie and GW crfeature decks. I was able to come away with the win, but RDW was a rough matchup. I wonder how the SCG team list would have faired against more aggressive strategies.
This deck just man handles Esper. Mono Blue is a bit harder, but if we can deal with early threats promptly and not stumble on lands, we can just grind them out with Underworld Connections.
If there is anything learned from this showing at the GP, its that Connections finally showed how powerful it truly is.
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Anyways, I have been out of the loop for the past few days, but I can still help a bit.
Desecration Demon, while having flaws, is one of the best cards out there for our deck. There is a reason for the $10 price tag, and its not because he bakes cookies. By refusing to use the most optimal cards for a deck, you are hurting your own chances in the long run. And there are plenty of reasons why he is good. For instance, against Control decks, he is an absolute monster. Either they answer him, or they lose. RDW has to waste multiple burn-spells on him, and against mirror/midrange, if they lack an answer, they are behind further. Against Weenie and Token decks, yes, he is a bit underwhelming, but not completely useless.
Lowering the curve of the deck would be a great idea. Flooding the 3-drops is not. Our Turn 3 is already a crucial turn for us, and proves to be either the most advantageous or the most disastrous. By adding in a second creature that is a 3-drop, you give yourself more options to make a mistake.
I find it funny how recently, everyone stopped playing Read the Bones. I used to love it, but the lose of life was not easily dealt with in the end.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Apparently Nelson is playing this at the Grand Prix and said it's one of the best decks in the format. Hopefully someone can post this before I leave to go to an event tomorrow morning :x
Modern
UWGB 4c Snow Control BGWU
12 Swamp
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Breeding Pool
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Mutavault
Creatures (17):
2 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Putrefy
1 Devour Flesh
2 Ratchet Bomb
Other (5):
3 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Pithing Needle
3 Golgari Charm
2 Fade into Antiquity
2 Gaze of Granite
1 Doom Blade
1 Ultimate Price
1 Devour Flesh
3 Disciple of Phenax
Now right away, there's an obvious omission here. I didn't have Hero's Downfall. I am immediately planning to revise the decklist with:
-2 Putrefy
-1 Devour Flesh (to SB)
-1 Doom Blade (SB)
+3 Hero's Downfall
So for the sake of planning, the real decklist:
12 Swamp
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
2 Breeding Pool
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Mutavault
Creatures (17):
2 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Putrefy
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Ratchet Bomb
Other (5):
3 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Pithing Needle
3 Golgari Charm
2 Fade into Antiquity
2 Gaze of Granite
1 Ultimate Price
2 Devour Flesh
3 Disciple of Phenax
Maindeck Ratchet Bombs were a metagame decision; looked like there were tons of Gx Aggro, U Aggro out there and I love to kill multiple 1- or 2-drops at once. Also a beast against GR Monsters to stumble the dork train. Still fairly happy with them; they would live in the sideboard if the meta shifted. In the main deck it's never an awful card, but it is often very slow to become relevant.
I'm also considering tweaking the removal a bit more to better deal with Desecration Demon, especially post-board. I felt like the fact that Abrupt Decay didn't hit him was really screwing up my ability to deal with him in mirror matches. Wondering if I really need Devour Flesh in the SB, because it sucks against Mutavault which seems to be everywhere. But then, what choice do I have against Blood Baron?
Game 1 feels unwinnable. I can kill a couple creatures, but the next four kill me. Fortunately I can sideboard in 12 cards against him, and games 2 and 3 are a grindy attrition war that I shouldn't lose. I board in everything but Pithing Needle and Devour Flesh, dropping Thoughtseize, Desecration Demon, Lifebane Zombie with the intent to stabilize and ride it out consistently. Very swingy matchup, probably 30/70 G1 and 70/30 G2&3.
1-0 matches, 2-1 games
Round 2: vs. UB Midrange (Big Blue)
Very grindy from the beginning, but Thoughtseize and just enough removal keep him from getting much online. Ashiok runs straight into Abrupt Decay all day; I can see him getting nasty if left unchecked, but whenever he misses you know it's safe to ignore him for a turn and remove him at leisure. Game 2 was Nightveil Specters everywhere, and I got to cast his Aetherling to close it out.
2-0 matches, 4-1 games
Round 3: vs. BU Gray Merchant Devotion
Essentially a mirror match, he has the Mutavaults and I have the extra removal. An extremely close match; I got hosed by bad draws one game, but the other two were back and forth. Fade into Antiquity proved its worth here and Underworld Connections died left and right, but I didn't quite get there. Later he mentioned running 4 to my 3, which probably canceled out some of the advantage I got from blowing them up. Desecration Demon not being hit by Abrupt Decay really sucks here as well.
2-1 matches, 5-3 games
Round 4: vs. BR Gray Merchant Devotion
Another near mirror match. Our removal kept each other off creatures for long. One game had a painful Rakdos's Return for 3, but Whip of Erebos let me recover with the creatures I lost anyway. I closed out a long Game 2 with double Merchant, and then Game 3 saw double Slaughter Games from my T1 Thoughtseize, which of course led to me playing without Gray Merchants. Still wound up getting there with Erebos.
3-1 matches, 7-4 games
Round 5: vs. N/A, Draw into Top 8
3-1-1 matches, 7-4 games
Top 8: vs. Mono Blue Aggro
Same as Round 1. He was hoping not to face me because it went out exactly as we expected; game 1 he melted my face, games 2 and 3 I won the attrition war. Game 2 actually started with a bad stumble and wound up very close as he had lethal unblockable on the board, but was forced to play around the unknown removal spell I could stop him with before I untapped and killed him. He guessed wrong and Golgari Charm saved me from lethal damage. Game 3 was a brutal curve into triple Merchant.
4-1-1 matches, 9-5 games
Top 4: vs. GR Monsters
Here's a match where Ratchet Bomb and Gaze of Granite really shined. Arbor Colossus and Sylvan Primordial scared away my Desecration Demons, but I was very happy with Disciple of Phenax taking his big dudes instead. The name of the game was steal/remove your big dudes, sweep your dorks, and if possible, Abrupt Decay any living Voyaging Satyrs. The first two games got off to very weird starts for both of us, but thankfully neither had us fully mana screwed and they got interesting regardless. Game 3 ended with a backbreaking Gaze of Granite into Merchant, next turn Putrefy+Whip Merchant. Obviously a 4th Lifebane Zombie would be ideal for this matchup, but I like the 3/3 split and don't think it warrants a sideboard slot.
5-1-1 matches, 11-6 games
Finals: vs. BU Gray Merchant Devotion
Same as Round 3. I took Game 1, but then Game 2 was ugly: Swamp Swamp Nykthos Underworld Specter Decay looked like a safe enough keep until he Thoughtseized my Underworld and then I didn't draw a land for 5 turns. I died to double Mutavault... Game 3 easily could have gone either way, but ended with him dropping Erebos then 3 Desecration Demons in a row just when it looked like I was going to stabilize and take over with Pack Rats.
5-2-1 matches, 12-8 games
Desecration Demon has been letting me down all weekend. He never gets to block when it matters, period. Still, I think 4 maindeck is the right decision because he is so hard to deal with for a deck that can't remove him and isn't trying to finish you off the turn after you cast him.
Nightveil Specter was a huge house, but then look at the matchups I played. Lifebane Zombie came out much more often than he did. I think he's fine as 2-3 maindeck; if I moved him it would be to the sideboard at the very least. The mana base is perfectly smooth for his casting cost with 22/24 B/U sources and I could probably get away with 4 colorless, though 3 is safer.
Pharika's Cure was in my sideboard at FNM last night, but I cut it. I don't think gaining 2 life is worth the flexibility of any of the other 2-mana removal spells, especially when Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm are on the table. Those, of course, have been amazing. I would consider running Charm MD, but right now it feels a little too narrow.
Mistcutter Hydra lies on the outskirts of my sideboard options, just tantalizing me. But I'm not sure what exactly I'd take out for him. I don't need more cards against control, or more threats against mono blue. I would love a protected blocker against mono blue, but they're probably unblockable anyway. I think Desecration Demon already has this role filled out pretty well.
Gaze of Granite is exactly what I want against 1-2 CMC swarms. It doesn't really want to hit higher than that, so I only found room to bring it in against aggro.
Fade into Antiquity kills whatever gods Thoughtseize missed, especially against aggro-devotion where I want to actually side that out. It definitely rocks in the mirror, where they work together to stop Erebos.
Scavenging Ooze I have not been running. I could see it being pretty good against aggro, might have to test. But I don't think it's very against mono blue aggro's flyers, so I dunno. Since I almost never want to scavenge my own graveyard it relies on theirs, and I don't have a ton of green sources to catch him up really fast.
Reaper of the Wilds certainly blocks better than Desecration Demon, but I don't know that I like it over Disciple of Phenax in that scenario. Warrants testing at least.
2 Nykthos, Shrine of Nyx
2 Dimir Guildgate
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
13 Swamp
Creatures (18):
2 Pack Rat
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Clone
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Underworld Connections
Other (12):
2 Thoughtseize
2 Doom Blade
2 Far//Away
1 Pharika's Cure
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Syncopate
I realize there are some unconventional choices in the deck, namely Clone, Syncopate, and to a lesser extent, Erebos.
* In my testing so far, Erebos maindeck has been hit-or-miss, but probably worth a 1-of slot simply for the ability to shut off lifelink.
* Clone was just a novelty, but I've never been unhappy to have it in my hand. Outside of copying Merchants, I've hit Blood Baron, Stormbreath Dragon, Thassa, and Master of Waves.
* Syncopate has been an all-star. It is one of the few cards capable of doing something on turn 2, and late-game tends to catch people by surprise. I almost want to move up to 3.
* The 3/3 split between Lifebane and Nightveil seems about right.
* 25 land seems like 1 too many. I'm considering the following changes:
-1 Swamp
-1 Pharika's Cure
+1 Thoughtseize
+1 Syncopate
Excellent post. I added your decklist and match results to the OP. Congratulations on your 2nd Place finish!
I also edited the OP in general and added stuff to the Reserved post. If I'm missing anything or there's some egregious errors, please point it out!
Sorry, but we are not allowed to post information from the Premium pages. There is a reason why we pay for it.
For those of you playing Green, have you tried Deathrite Shaman? Seems like he and Pack Rat could become VERY good friends quickly. Get rid of land, tap to ramp, ect. ect.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Lifebane Zombie
2 Erebos, God of the Dead
16 Swamp
4 Mutavault
1 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Silence
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
2 Ultimate Price
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Nightveil Specter
1 Xathrid Necromancer
1 Devour Flesh
4 Pharika's Cure
4 Duress
Interesting to see no Pack Rat here. He also opted for the fifth scry land over Nykthos, and he's also playing a second Erebos. This is certainly an interesting build, and probably where I would go if I were to rebuild my deck.
This one lost in the quarter finals last night. It's a brew
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Lifebane Zombie
3 Nightveil Specter
2 Reaper of the Wilds
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Forest
11 Swamp
4 Golgari Guildgate
3 Mutavault
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Ultimate Price
1 Whip of Erebos
4 Thoughtseize
1 Haunted Plate Mail
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Skylasher
1 Underworld Connections
1 Devour Flesh
1 Golgari Charm
1 Pharika's Cure
1 Ultimate Price
2 Read the Bones
This probably more Rock than Black Devotion, but it's pretty awesome. The green splash gives access to more utility and awesome cards,most notably Reaper of the Wilds. The commentators last night kept going on how it improves the quality of the cards in your hand by scrying. This build is pretty awesome, actually. I would watch for this one soon.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
To be fair AJ Sacher also questioned the green splash, saying that it doesnt offer that much.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
His list:
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
19 Swamp
2 Temple of Deceit
4 Desecration Demon
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Nightveil Specter
2 Pack Rat
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
4 Hero's Downfall
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ultimate Price
4 Underworld Connections
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Devour Flesh
2 Doom Blade
3 Duress
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Pack Rat
1 Pithing Needle
Biggest thing is Nightveil Specters over Lifebane in the Main. Also is on the 2-2 split of Doom Blade and Ultimate Price.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
I don't really like Scavenging Ooze in the deck either, I think it takes too much away from the Black devotion and eats potential Whip targets.
I played in an afternoon Gameday and I was still learning to play with the deck and went 2-2. Went to another Gameday that night at another store.
Tournament Report:
Last night I made it to Top 4 out of 27 people:
Round 1: Loss to RDW
Game 1 got flooded and game 2 I got stuck with 2 Desecration Demons and a Whip against an army of 4 of his guys and I wasn't able to stabilize. (0-2)
Round 2:Win against UWR Token control
This deck is a homebrew by a guy at our LGS and it won him FNM the night before. Plays control magic until he can get out Elspeth or Assemble the Legion with Purphorous and just overwhelm the opponent. Game 1 he got flooded and I Thoughtseized his Elspeth early, he attempted to stabilize with two Assemble the Legions late game, but my Lifebane Zombie snuck damage through his token wall for the win. Game 2 I got 3 Thoughtseize and 2 Duress against him and he got flooded again, wasn't much of a match. (2-0)
Round 3: Win against BR Control
Game 1 we proceed to back and forth play threats and removal to answer them until, after much kill spell flinging on my part, he lands a third Stormbreath Dragon and kills me with it.:-/ Game 2 I got double Thoughtseize and strip two bombs from his hand I lure out his early removal and get 2 Underworld Connections online and a Whip and proceed to eat huge chunks of his life total with Gray Merchant. Game 3 went pretty much the same way as Game 2. (2-1)
Round 4:Win against Esper Control
He either didn't run many counter spells or didn't draw them enough, because I saw only 1 from him the whole game. I don't remember exactly how these games went (it was already after 10pm at this point), but he got Game 1 with a Blood Baron that I didn't draw an answer for and basically he wasn't sure how to answer my threats and let me get Underworld Connections online, the last 2 games, which allowed me to draw into threats and overwhelm him.(2-1)
Round 5: Win against UW Enchantment Pillow Fort
I was 7th at this point and wasn't sure if I was going to draw in so we played. He got land screwed Game 1 and flooded Game 2. I also saw how his deck played throughout the night so I understood the majority of his threats.(2-0)
Top 8: Win against BW Control
I was able to get two Connections and a Whip online then Gray Merchant Sac it to his Desecration Demon and Whip it back the next turn with a Nightveil in play to seal the game. Game 2 he got stuck on 4 lands with 2 Blood Barons in hand, Ouch, easy win. (2-0)
Top 4: Loss to RDW
It started that night with a loss to RDW and it ended that night with a loss to RDW. Game 1 he curves perfectly and I only get some Lifebane Zombies out which he always had a shock for. Game 2 I got my early removal and lay a Nightveil which hits him twice and gets me one of his mountains to play. I get a Whip and an Underworld Connections online Which allows me to Gray Merchant for 9. He drops BTE into Chandra;s Pheonix into Chandra's Pheonix which boosts his Foundry Denizen to 4/1 and he swings with it and the Pheonixs. I trade Gray Merchant with the Denizen and Whip it back next turn for the win. Game 3 was long and torturous; he curves really well again and gets me to 2 life I get Whip online with a Lifebane Zombie and get back up to 5 life. What proceeded after that was me whipping back my army to gain some life drawing a few kill spells to weaken his army and him drawing into more dudes. Eventually I had my 2 Pack Rats come out and me trading them with his guys and Whipping them back to make a token to stick. He ended up winning the top deck war with a Lightning Strike to my last Pack Rat token and him rolling through with 2 Rakdos Cacklers. (1-2)
My deck:
3 Lifebane Zombie
4 Nightveil Specter
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Pack Rat
Non-creature Spells:
3 Underworld Connections
3 Doom Blade
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Far/Away
2 Whip of Erebos
4 Thoughtseize
12 Swamp
3 Mutavault
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Lifebane Zombie
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Cyclonic Rift
1 Erebos, god of the Dead
3 Pharika's Cure
4 Duress
The card I sided out the most last night was Desecration Demon, aggro always had a sac target and control always had a kill spell. He is a double-edged sword, he can win games and lose games. The deck just can't really function without him right now, because we don't have another 4 drop black creature that is that much of a threat that also adds 2 to Devotion. That is the unfortunate side-effect of having the smallest card pool at this time.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
Well there is Liliana's Reaver but he is of course more fragile.
4x Pack Rat
4x Lifebane Zombie
4x Desecration Demon
1x Erebos, God of Death
3x Shadowborn Demon
4x Thoughtseize
3x Doomblade
2x Sign in Blood
2x Read the Bones
2x Underworld Connections
4x Hero's Downfall
2x Whip of Erebos
4x Mutavault
21x Swamps
Sideboard:
Not sure what exactly I want here. Subject to change based on the meta.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel is more devastating to than just killing a dude with Shadowborn. Gray Merchant swings the game in your favor lifewise. More life means more cards. You should be able to just bury them in card advantage from Underworld Connections. Play 3-4
ALSO: In GP Louisville news: Todd Anderson, Brad Nelson and BBD are ALL in the top 8 with Mono Black with the same deck.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
That list is very close to many of ours. What I want to know is what decks did he face, did he ever side out specters and were there games where he ran both lbz and specter. I'm assuming they don't replace each other in matchups. I won game day but felt like I got lucky against aggressive strategies but hard to denounce three players in top 8. Would like to get more info on their experience
Not running 4 demons is actual insanity.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
This, they are amazing... I would even trying running 5 and see if anyone notices.....
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG
It looks like BBD ended up keeping Specter, Thoughtseize, and Lifebane Zombie all in the main board. I'm curious as to what he took out for the Zombies and additional removal though.
Overall though, a very impressive finish for this list and proves that it has what it needs to take down the current metagame.
You need to be running 4 Desecration Demons. I can understand speculation based on your meta and whatever, but if you aren't running four, I don't know what else you could be running.
It brickwalls aggro, it's a huge threat against Control. Yeah, sure, in some situations, it does absolutely nothing. But there is no other card that can do what Desecration Demon does better than he already does. Until the reprint Mutilate, I'll be running 4 DD's in every list.
Also, congrats to BBD on 1st place at GP Louisville with Monoblack Devotion! Does anyone have his list, or is it the same as Todd Andersons?
Great. Added results and decklist to the OP.
Nice to see these results. I wonder how important it will be to run 4 Underworld Connections if the mirror is going to be common. I'm going to be making some tweaks but I'm not sure what I can take out for the fourth copy.
i wonder how he sided as well. Like i said earlier, even though the lists played specter main and lbz side, i don't think they were direct substitutes for each other depending on the matchup. I think he just added the LBZs to hate on selesnya or green aggresive decks. I wonder what he brought out (probably erebos, whips and some number of connections i would assume.)
I played this deck at gameday and got 1st place, but I played it because i expected mono u devotion and esper to run rampant in my meta. I think this deck totally destroy them. However, my meta was mostly rdw and white weenie and GW crfeature decks. I was able to come away with the win, but RDW was a rough matchup. I wonder how the SCG team list would have faired against more aggressive strategies.
If there is anything learned from this showing at the GP, its that Connections finally showed how powerful it truly is.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)