I am going to play wescoes list this weekend, and have been testing against my friends Human deck, and Thalia gives me so much trouble! is humans a bad matchup? Id really appreciate some sideboarding or gameplan advice, because there are lots of Human decks in my meta.
The key to defeating a well built Wu Humans deck is to eliminate the threats they pack before they overwhelm you.
Every Wu Humans deck does the same thing-
Establish board presence using creatures with built in survivability(Crusader, Geist, unblockable hexproof guy)
Increase the strength of said creatures(Hotp, Angelic Destiny, Sword)
Remove anything that stops attacks from getting through (O-ring, Fiend Hunter, etc)
You need to stop them at one of these three points or you lose.
You can pack a bunch of Revoke Existence to kill any Angelic Destiny, Honor of the Pure, or Sword.
What I side in/out in this match-up
+2 Day of Judgment
+3 Revoke Existence
-2 Go for the Throat
-1 Doomed Traveler
-1 Midnight Haunting
-1 Gather the Townsfolk
On a side note, I also MB 4 copies of Despise because I find it to be one of the best cards in this current meta. It alone can stop a Wu Humans deck in it's tracks. Between despise, revoke, and DoJ, they have a really hard time maintaining any board presence. Thats when you drop a lingering souls and an anthem and watch them squirm.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
I have tested the matchup extensively as a Humans player. I found the matchup 45/55 in Tokens' favor. Humans' best threat is Thalia and Sword of War and Peace. Other than that, they lose to Tokens. You absolutely need many Tragic Slip for Thalia and hopefully you get it before Honor of the Pure comes out for them or Morbid triggers. As bad as Sword of War and Peace is against you, it is equally as bad against them. If they get a resolved Sword, the only way you win is with Vault of the Archangel damage if it is more than they are doing.
During tournaments, I've actually done pretty well BW Tokens, but that is due to me getting Thalia so often and their mana base not being as stable as UW Humans (ie. not getting Black) or getting flooded w/o Vault.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Honestly this is probably my most feared matchup. Against control I just need to remember to keep a very aggressive hand and we are already very good at recovering from board wipes. They can come out more aggressively than us and they have SoWAP.
Suggesting that SoWAP is also good against UW Humans is true. However, most token lists have no room or just don't even run Swords MB/SB. My biggest thing that I want against them is my MB Vaults to come online. Once I got my Vaults online I feel safe again. (Don't forget Stony silence not only shuts down their ratchet bombs, but they also can't equip their Swords)
THis is the deck i'm afraid Avacyn has helped the most and scares me a little, the 2u draw a card for each human also scares me some, also the sideboard card protection from humans 2ww creature, will make games 50/50 when that lands.
I sugest you Gut Shot and Mortarpod. I recently added Gut Shot to my sideboard and I very happy with that. Mortarpod in some games are just insane, in my deck I can make 50 creatures...
This to kill Talia, of course. I have some troubles with G/W agroo because Talia, and I resolve my problem that way...
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The Izmagnus are the most powerful members of the Izmundi
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes Commander: Locust God
I think Go for the Throat is a better option than gut shot or tragic slip. Thalia doesn't always land on turn 2, sometimes it lands on turn 3 (especially if they have an honor and know you can hit Thalia for 1) and a turn 3 Thalia on the play is just as damaging as a turn 2 Thalia. The card I most like in this matchup is Day of Judgment. Humans is a deck that wants to overextend, and Day punishes them hard for that. If they don't overextend then you're able to match them threat for threat with no real issue.
High Value Cards they possess-
Immediate Threats-
Other Threats-
The key to defeating a well built Wu Humans deck is to eliminate the threats they pack before they overwhelm you.
Every Wu Humans deck does the same thing-
Establish board presence using creatures with built in survivability(Crusader, Geist, unblockable hexproof guy)
Increase the strength of said creatures(Hotp, Angelic Destiny, Sword)
Remove anything that stops attacks from getting through (O-ring, Fiend Hunter, etc)
You need to stop them at one of these three points or you lose.
You can pack a bunch of Revoke Existence to kill any Angelic Destiny, Honor of the Pure, or Sword.
What I side in/out in this match-up
+2 Day of Judgment
+3 Revoke Existence
-2 Go for the Throat
-1 Doomed Traveler
-1 Midnight Haunting
-1 Gather the Townsfolk
On a side note, I also MB 4 copies of Despise because I find it to be one of the best cards in this current meta. It alone can stop a Wu Humans deck in it's tracks. Between despise, revoke, and DoJ, they have a really hard time maintaining any board presence. Thats when you drop a lingering souls and an anthem and watch them squirm.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
During tournaments, I've actually done pretty well BW Tokens, but that is due to me getting Thalia so often and their mana base not being as stable as UW Humans (ie. not getting Black) or getting flooded w/o Vault.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Suggesting that SoWAP is also good against UW Humans is true. However, most token lists have no room or just don't even run Swords MB/SB. My biggest thing that I want against them is my MB Vaults to come online. Once I got my Vaults online I feel safe again. (Don't forget Stony silence not only shuts down their ratchet bombs, but they also can't equip their Swords)
This to kill Talia, of course. I have some troubles with G/W agroo because Talia, and I resolve my problem that way...
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
It's our strength! Let him drop their threats deal with them with a least possible. After that Day in their board and extended for the win.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God