Three gods is way too many. I'm playing two and it's almost too many. You're never going to get what you want out of fanatic. The fact that your opponent gets to chose the tribute and what not means it's always going to be in their favor not yours. You also need more mizziummortars. I'm not a huge fan of boon satur either. I understand you're trying to be more aggressive I'm just not sure that's where the deck really wants too be. How has it been testing for you?
I thought three might be too many too, but it just works. Boon Satyr + Fanatic is much more aggressive than Courser + Whatever else and coupled with the three gods I have consistent explosive starts and consistent wins turns 5-6. As stated above, I crushed three tournaments this weekend with this build, going 4-0-1, 5-1-1 and 6-1-1 in each. I played every major archetype multiple times (except for Rw devotion, wow that tanked in number of players fast) and only losses were to Bant Walkers in top 8 once and MBD once in the swiss (stuck on 2 land game 3). I think the more aggressive strategy is exactly where this deck wants to be, especially with the uptick in UW based control decks, they just get run over before they can do anything. It also has the added benefit to go the more midrange strategy post-board if it's necessary.
On the courser vs. fanatic thing. I REALLY want to play Courser, but this build has tested well, so I don't think I'm going to make a major change like that for the PTQ now that I've thought about it some more. I'll post again Sunday re: how it runs at the PTQ.
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Standard: Monoblack Devotion - BG Constellation
Modern: RG Tron - Melira Pod
Legacy: Bug Delver - Esper Deathblade
I thought three might be too many too, but it just works. Boon Satyr + Fanatic is much more aggressive than Courser + Whatever else and coupled with the three gods I have consistent explosive starts and consistent wins turns 5-6. As stated above, I crushed three tournaments this weekend with this build, going 4-0-1, 5-1-1 and 6-1-1 in each. I played every major archetype multiple times (except for Rw devotion, wow that tanked in number of players fast) and only losses were to Bant Walkers in top 8 once and MBD once in the swiss (stuck on 2 land game 3). I think the more aggressive strategy is exactly where this deck wants to be, especially with the uptick in UW based control decks, they just get run over before they can do anything. It also has the added benefit to go the more midrange strategy post-board if it's necessary.
On the courser vs. fanatic thing. I REALLY want to play Courser, but this build has tested well, so I don't think I'm going to make a major change like that for the PTQ now that I've thought about it some more. I'll post again Sunday re: how it runs at the PTQ.
Yes those two cards together is much more aggressive, but this isnt an Aggro deck. We dont have to play on curve. We get to 4 mana and play threat after threat demanding an answer for each one until one of us is dead. Which is why you dont see Fanatics/boon satyrs in most lists anymore.
Yes those two cards together is much more aggressive, but this isnt an Aggro deck. We dont have to play on curve. We get to 4 mana and play threat after threat demanding an answer for each one until one of us is dead. Which is why you dont see Fanatics/boon satyrs in most lists anymore.
Ah, my bad. I thought the thread title said "[Primer] G/R Aggro/Midrange" must have misread that. I'll refrain from posting any heavily tested aggressive decks here in the future.
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Standard: Monoblack Devotion - BG Constellation
Modern: RG Tron - Melira Pod
Legacy: Bug Delver - Esper Deathblade
I'd like to put up my list for critique. With a curve out at 5 with two Xenagos, it tends to be on the quicker side, and having so many creatures means I'm consistently pumping out threats. I went 3-1 last night and the local place, losing one close game to MBD. I'm contemplating switching out Rubblebelt Raiders for Polukranos, World Eater to give myself added versatility, but she gives 3 devotion to both gods and more consistently comes out swinging thanks to Xenagos, so that's still a debate. SB tuned mostly for control/MUD set up. I may remove the Skullcracks, but I'm not sure for what.
Yes those two cards together is much more aggressive, but this isnt an Aggro deck. We dont have to play on curve. We get to 4 mana and play threat after threat demanding an answer for each one until one of us is dead. Which is why you dont see Fanatics/boon satyrs in most lists anymore.
Ah, my bad. I thought the thread title said "[Primer] G/R Aggro/Midrange" must have misread that. I'll refrain from posting any heavily tested aggressive decks here in the future.
If you look at the G/R decks that were in the top 16 at Nashville, 2 of them had Fanatic and the other 3 had Courser. Even though the deck that placed 2nd had Courser, doesn't mean that is the only way the deck should be ran. The new format is just starting, we will see in time which card will see more play and what version of the deck (Aggro or Midrange) will be on top, just give it time.
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I'm a wizard from the great white north!
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
Yes those two cards together is much more aggressive, but this isnt an Aggro deck. We dont have to play on curve. We get to 4 mana and play threat after threat demanding an answer for each one until one of us is dead. Which is why you dont see Fanatics/boon satyrs in most lists anymore.
Ah, my bad. I thought the thread title said "[Primer] G/R Aggro/Midrange" must have misread that. I'll refrain from posting any heavily tested aggressive decks here in the future.
If you look at the G/R decks that were in the top 16 at Nashville, 2 of them had Fanatic and the other 3 had Courser. Even though the deck that placed 2nd had Courser, doesn't mean that is the only way the deck should be ran. The new format is just starting, we will see in time which card will see more play and what version of the deck (Aggro or Midrange) will be on top, just give it time.
I get what youre saying, but you have to think which one wins when they are both in play. Courser, not close. It blocks Fanatic like a boss, and give huge amounts of card advantage, and the life gain is not totally irrelevant either.
Yes those two cards together is much more aggressive, but this isnt an Aggro deck. We dont have to play on curve. We get to 4 mana and play threat after threat demanding an answer for each one until one of us is dead. Which is why you dont see Fanatics/boon satyrs in most lists anymore.
Ah, my bad. I thought the thread title said "[Primer] G/R Aggro/Midrange" must have misread that. I'll refrain from posting any heavily tested aggressive decks here in the future.
If you look at the G/R decks that were in the top 16 at Nashville, 2 of them had Fanatic and the other 3 had Courser. Even though the deck that placed 2nd had Courser, doesn't mean that is the only way the deck should be ran. The new format is just starting, we will see in time which card will see more play and what version of the deck (Aggro or Midrange) will be on top, just give it time.
I get what youre saying, but you have to think which one wins when they are both in play. Courser, not close. It blocks Fanatic like a boss, and give huge amounts of card advantage, and the life gain is not totally irrelevant either.
I see what you're saying. Both cards are good in the right decks, but both have downsides. Courser is a good card, but it's ability can hurt you by giving your opponent knowledge, and in this game, knowledge is power. I've seen people say that Courser is a mana dork, but it's not from my understanding. It's like having a extra card in your hand that your opponent can see, and you can't play it unless it's a land and when you play a land you gain one life. In the end of the day, we're not winning with Fanatic or Courser, we're beating our opponents with Hydras,Dragons,and Domris (Oh my lol).
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I'm a wizard from the great white north!
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
It doesn't matter what cards your opponents see if all of them are threats. I'm more than happy to reveal Polukranos, Stormbreath Dragon, Xenagos, etc to them. It just helps them conceed faster.
Ah, my bad. I thought the thread title said "[Primer] G/R Aggro/Midrange" must have misread that. I'll refrain from posting any heavily tested aggressive decks here in the future.
It is kinda confusing though, the title of this thread. It should just be changed to G/R Monsters I think, as that's what most of the coverage folks list it as. Minor nitpick though.
Anyway, I'm shifting over to this build from the Devotion side. I love the idea of going huge with Nykthos, but the verdict is out, and this is the better deck for the metagame. I'm working on Kent Ketter's recent 2nd place list from Nashville, or something very similar. I'll be a couple cards off for a little bit(probably a Garruk and single Nykthos over a Domri/Mutavault), but otherwise I basically have the deck together. Should be able to run it through some local gauntlets next week.
Psyched to be playing a Tier 1 deck in standard finally. I knew investing in the R/G staples would payoff this season.
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
I've been testing and collecting parts for this for a couple weeks. I do have one concern:
What's the MBD matchup like? I haven't tested it and it seems like a Thoughtseize + any 2-4 drop play is very bad news for us. We don't go larger than a 6/6 for 4 and if our ramp is stripped then we can't out pace them. I suppose by playing Domri t2-3 we can keep their DD tapped down with mana dorks, but it seems like quite a few things need to go right for us to win the MBD matchup.
We're built to beat UW control decks (I've never not 2-0'd a UW deck) so that MU isn't a major concern.
MUD looks rough after watching the finals match last week. Our SB helps quite a bit (Gruul Charm + Plummet) but it seems like we need Polukranos early to win that game.
To concur with Kent Ketter, I found Scooze lacking and wishing he was a dork. I still run Nykthos, even though I don't run major devotion enablers, and it can create some great situations. I run 4x Elvish Mystic, 3x Sylvan Caryatid, and 2x Voyaging Satyr.
Everything else is in flux so posting my list is pointless, although Courser is included over Fanatic.
Mana base:
What's the opinion on running the 5th scryland as Ketter suggests? Effective, useful, worthless?
I've been testing and collecting parts for this for a couple weeks. I do have one concern:
What's the MBD matchup like? I haven't tested it and it seems like a Thoughtseize + any 2-4 drop play is very bad news for us. We don't go larger than a 6/6 for 4 and if our ramp is stripped then we can't out pace them. I suppose by playing Domri t2-3 we can keep their DD tapped down with mana dorks, but it seems like quite a few things need to go right for us to win the MBD matchup.
We're built to beat UW control decks (I've never not 2-0'd a UW deck) so that MU isn't a major concern.
MUD looks rough after watching the finals match last week. Our SB helps quite a bit (Gruul Charm + Plummet) but it seems like we need Polukranos early to win that game.
To concur with Kent Ketter, I found Scooze lacking and wishing he was a dork. I still run Nykthos, even though I don't run major devotion enablers, and it can create some great situations. I run 4x Elvish Mystic, 3x Sylvan Caryatid, and 2x Voyaging Satyr.
Everything else is in flux so posting my list is pointless, although Courser is included over Fanatic.
Mana base:
What's the opinion on running the 5th scryland as Ketter suggests? Effective, useful, worthless?
I must have missed it, but where did Ketter discuss his list?
I'm not a fan of the 5th scry land, but I still think I'd rather it be red. I'm definitely disliking the flesh//blood in place of the fourth mortars main. Agree with the chandra #2 main though, it's so much better to make a dude unable to block instead of a 2/2 from xenagos (worst case).
As for sideboarding, Ketter's board is pretty easy to figure out what goes in, but what comes out in the various matchups?
Do you guys think R/G monsters or MBD is better positioned right now? I understand the new meta is fresh and only 1 SCG Open has taken place since, but nonetheless I am interested in your input.
I think the top two decks in the format will solidify as GR Monsters and MB with Mono Blue, UWx Control and other stuff putting in top performances relatively often. I think MB will end up being the top deck once they solidify their builds to suit our matchup more since atm they're playing so much stuff that's dead vs us. I think at the moment a more aggressive build with boon satyrs over kruphix is the better way to go. I just feel like I'm losing too much tempo off the back of not playing a threat on turn 3.
I went 4-2 finished 11th.
Rnd 1 - U/W agroish deck utilising Ephara, God of the Polis[/card} - lacked removal and answers and had the 3 walkers and Courser of Kruphix games 1 & 3. Lost game two when he went Soldier, soldier, captain, D spere I had no plays.
Rnd 2 - G/R/W midrang control type, won G1 on back of two dragons with ghor clans, and some minor trades, lost games 2 & 3 Elspeth being one issue but in game 3 on the play I kept stomping ground and elvish mystic golding 2 Courser and Domri, polukranos dragon....got greedy and paid the price.
Rnd 3 - Mono Blue I lost 2-0, G1 double Tidebinder Mage and early thassa stopped me from appling pressure. G2 He gets double Tidebinder again and I am unlucky to draw all high mana cards and overloaded MM was a turn too late.
Rnd 4 - Golgari utilising Reper, DD. polukranos and the standard removal suit. T2 Domri put me on the front foot and was fotunate to keep applying pressure. Lost G2 due to horrible draws, opening hand was good everything else was not. G3 was the same as first, early constant pressure.
In this game the Courser provided the double bluff. Twice it showed my opponent that he I drew a Ghor Clan Rampager, So I swing with dragon and he chooses to conserve his DD, I then main 2 play Domri and kill big Fatty. I am not saying I am the bees knees, but this move over a few games or using the god snagged me many powerful created by holding back the Domri.
Rnd 5 - U/W/R Control, on the play early Courser and Xenagos the reveler netted me advantage, G2 I miss 2 land drops, he -2 Jace and reveals Brimaz, Archangel, Elspeth!! I put them all in a single pile he chooses them and in response I scoop :). G3 Early Xenagos combined with dragon and Chor Clan support netted me a fast easy win.
Rnd 6 = Mono Black, He goes first and thoughtseizes out my elvish mystic leaving Dragon, Polukranos, Xenagod, Domri stomping ground. I proceed to draw a mystic (I know stupid lucky) he thoughtseized again T2 but was now facing down ramp and I stayed ahead of this removal. G2 he goes thoughtseize packrat several turns later wins. G3 Early Courser followed by Xenagos PW and he stumbled on a land drop and my pressure and domri trick keep me ahead all game.
Thoughts, Do not get greedy like I did in Rnd 2, cost me a match I could have won. Courser of Kruphix is going to be amazing for the next 18 months, wow he is bonkers.
Deck surprisingly leans heavy on Domri and Dragon.
Xenagod is good, definately worth the include, not an I win button. He has to be finessed and played approprately.
Mono blue was tough, I drew attrocious game 2 and G1 I was probably not in it.
The MBD & G/B both showcased some removal and beaters, I was able to ride the wave and keep pressure.
On the deck itself;
MB - I tried [Golgari Charm[/card] as a tech, I thought it had lots of relevant targets, I never cast it once and it was a dead card only once. I seem to have lost Flesh/blood and no one has any amongst friends, so I took the opportunity to experiment.
I would love the opinion, another GPT tomorrow, I am considering removing the 2 Golgari Charm and using 2 [Deadbridge Goliath[/card] or 2 Boros Charm (switch scry land). The amount of times I wanted a different four drop or a different type of pressure, it is still a 5/5 beater. It is the scavenge that has me excited.
SB - Bow of Nylea and the 2 Gruul Charms did not see play )I forgot against MUD to bring charms in. I think Bow should go for 4th Mizzium Mortars or even Garruck. I put it in for the Morrir match.
I hope you made it through my wall o txt, and please if some feedback can be given I am all for it. GPT again tomorrow and a couple tweeks in order but the deck has power.
Oh and if you missed it, Courser of Kruphix is amazing!!
I hope you made it through my wall o txt, and please if some feedback can be given I am all for it. GPT again tomorrow and a couple tweeks in order but the deck has power.
Oh and if you missed it, Courser of Kruphix is amazing!!
Glad to hear yet another person say how much they like Courser of Kruphix. Ari Lax commented on it in one of his articles, saying he wasn't really sure that it was actually good. But from everyone else I've heard only good things. I still need to finish my playset though, so hopefully the price doesn't jump through the roof.
Anyway, I like your list, just have a couple recommendations. First, why in god's name are you playing Golgari Charm?? I'm assuming you like the regeneration clause? The other phases seem only marginally relevant for a maindeck card, and even the regenerate mode is only sometimes relevant. Mostly though, you just can't splash a card like that off of a mere 5 mana sources. If you wanted to play a 3rd color card like that, I'd say you need bare minimum, 8-10 sources of black to make it castable. Both Golgari Charm and Boros Charm are very timing-specific cards when you're looking to save the team, and you just aren't going to be able to cast them on time with just Caryatids and a random scry land. Mostly though, I don't think you need them. This deck is designed to trade monsters for removal until the opponent is dead. We have built in card advantage to get over any 2-for-1's our opponents might throw at us (mostly Supreme Verdict), and every single card we play is generally a threat to them. We just play haymakers until the opponent runs out of answers and then we win. The Charms are reactive cards, and they are bad draws when you don't have an already established board. More monsters or actual removal seems much better in those slots.
Arbor Colossus is also a card that doesn't seem necessary in a non-Nykthos deck, unless for some reason you are having a tough time with fliers in your meta. Personally though, I would move those to the SB, cut the 2 Charms, and play 4 Mizzium Mortars in you maindeck. Removal is pretty key for us, as we want to be able to handle a few problematic staples in the format right now. They aren't great against control (which is the only place I think you'd want the charms), but they are relevant against the rest of the format. Pushing through damage early is oftentimes key, as is getting rid of Pack Rats and the various white cards that can cause us trouble. Overload is also a pretty big bonus, and can be relevant against stuff like Elspeth.
If you want to run a "black" card in the maindeck, Flesh/Blood is pretty sweet as a 1-2 of, perhaps in a Mizzium slot. In that case, the black mana is just a bonus, as you are mostly just casting it as a massive burn spell. With Xenagod in the deck, you can often deal insane amounts of damage with the Blood side of the card.
Not sure how I feel about Deadbridge Goliath. Sometimes Polukranos is amazing, but sometimes he's just a big dumb 5/5. If Goliath had trample, I'd say it's great, but his Scavenge ability isn't enough to justify running him in my opinion. And Flesh/Blood does the same thing if you ever get that much mana, but with any card in your graveyard instead. I'd rather see a couple on-curve creatures, like a Scavenging Ooze or a pair of Fanatic of Xenagos.
In short, read Kent Ketter's SCG article titled "The Industry Standard. Ahhh! Real Monsters" . I really think his deck is very close to optimal.
To the Mods our there: what's the deal with pasting links on this new forum? Doesn't seem to work?
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MODERN RGB Jund BGR WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY RUGB Delver GURB
EDH UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Rnd 1 - U/W agroish deck utilising Ephara, God of the Polis[/card} - lacked removal and answers and had the 3 walkers and Courser of Kruphix games 1 & 3. Lost game two when he went Soldier, soldier, captain, D spere I had no plays.
Rnd 2 - G/R/W midrang control type, won G1 on back of two dragons with ghor clans, and some minor trades, lost games 2 & 3 Elspeth being one issue but in game 3 on the play I kept stomping ground and elvish mystic golding 2 Courser and Domri, polukranos dragon....got greedy and paid the price.
Rnd 3 - Mono Blue I lost 2-0, G1 double Tidebinder Mage and early thassa stopped me from appling pressure. G2 He gets double Tidebinder again and I am unlucky to draw all high mana cards and overloaded MM was a turn too late.
Rnd 4 - Golgari utilising Reper, DD. polukranos and the standard removal suit. T2 Domri put me on the front foot and was fotunate to keep applying pressure. Lost G2 due to horrible draws, opening hand was good everything else was not. G3 was the same as first, early constant pressure.
In this game the Courser provided the double bluff. Twice it showed my opponent that he I drew a Ghor Clan Rampager, So I swing with dragon and he chooses to conserve his DD, I then main 2 play Domri and kill big Fatty. I am not saying I am the bees knees, but this move over a few games or using the god snagged me many powerful created by holding back the Domri.
Rnd 5 - U/W/R Control, on the play early Courser and Xenagos the reveler netted me advantage, G2 I miss 2 land drops, he -2 Jace and reveals Brimaz, Archangel, Elspeth!! I put them all in a single pile he chooses them and in response I scoop :). G3 Early Xenagos combined with dragon and Chor Clan support netted me a fast easy win.
Rnd 6 = Mono Black, He goes first and thoughtseizes out my elvish mystic leaving Dragon, Polukranos, Xenagod, Domri stomping ground. I proceed to draw a mystic (I know stupid lucky) he thoughtseized again T2 but was now facing down ramp and I stayed ahead of this removal. G2 he goes thoughtseize packrat several turns later wins. G3 Early Courser followed by Xenagos PW and he stumbled on a land drop and my pressure and domri trick keep me ahead all game.
Thoughts, Do not get greedy like I did in Rnd 2, cost me a match I could have won. Courser of Kruphix is going to be amazing for the next 18 months, wow he is bonkers.
Deck surprisingly leans heavy on Domri and Dragon.
Xenagod is good, definately worth the include, not an I win button. He has to be finessed and played approprately.
Mono blue was tough, I drew attrocious game 2 and G1 I was probably not in it.
The MBD & G/B both showcased some removal and beaters, I was able to ride the wave and keep pressure.
On the deck itself;
MB - I tried [Golgari Charm[/card] as a tech, I thought it had lots of relevant targets, I never cast it once and it was a dead card only once. I seem to have lost Flesh/blood and no one has any amongst friends, so I took the opportunity to experiment.
I would love the opinion, another GPT tomorrow, I am considering removing the 2 Golgari Charm and using 2 [Deadbridge Goliath[/card] or 2 Boros Charm (switch scry land). The amount of times I wanted a different four drop or a different type of pressure, it is still a 5/5 beater. It is the scavenge that has me excited.
SB - Bow of Nylea and the 2 Gruul Charms did not see play )I forgot against MUD to bring charms in. I think Bow should go for 4th Mizzium Mortars or even Garruck. I put it in for the Morrir match.
I hope you made it through my wall o txt, and please if some feedback can be given I am all for it. GPT again tomorrow and a couple tweeks in order but the deck has power.
Oh and if you missed it, Courser of Kruphix is amazing!!
Interesting trying to include Golgari Charm, and your plans to consider Boros Charm. How do you feel these changes might improve the deck?
You need more mana sources of those colors to add a third color, though. Five (counting Caryatid, which could be destroyed by Devour Flesh, Supreme Verdict, etc) is HALF what you should have. I'd change all the mountains to shock lands if you really want to try this. Personally, I'd rather have 4 Mizzium Mortars in the main.
The Golgari charm was a added last minute due to no flesh/blood. I rigured removed an enchantment or regenerated helpd against 2 of 3 top decks. Just didnt happen. I sided it out.
I play the colossus for threat saturation, I admit it gets boarded a little.
I would prefer boros charm or selesnya charm as a splash purely due to creature interaction, if I need to trample though a token or maybe double strike a chor claned creatur. I am trying tk deadbridge today and running a 4th mortars side jnless I get my hands on a flesh/blood.
I'm not a fan of the 5th scry land, but I still think I'd rather it be red. I'm definitely disliking the flesh//blood in place of the fourth mortars main. Agree with the chandra #2 main though, it's so much better to make a dude unable to block instead of a 2/2 from xenagos (worst case).
As for sideboarding, Ketter's board is pretty easy to figure out what goes in, but what comes out in the various matchups?
I would like to get some discussion on sideboarding going as well.
I'm not a fan of the 5th scry land, but I still think I'd rather it be red. I'm definitely disliking the flesh//blood in place of the fourth mortars main. Agree with the chandra #2 main though, it's so much better to make a dude unable to block instead of a 2/2 from xenagos (worst case).
As for sideboarding, Ketter's board is pretty easy to figure out what goes in, but what comes out in the various matchups?
I would like to get some discussion on sideboarding going as well.
I'm not a fan of the 5th scry land, but I still think I'd rather it be red. I'm definitely disliking the flesh//blood in place of the fourth mortars main. Agree with the chandra #2 main though, it's so much better to make a dude unable to block instead of a 2/2 from xenagos (worst case).
As for sideboarding, Ketter's board is pretty easy to figure out what goes in, but what comes out in the various matchups?
I would like to get some discussion on sideboarding going as well.
I'm not a fan of the 5th scry land, but I still think I'd rather it be red. I'm definitely disliking the flesh//blood in place of the fourth mortars main. Agree with the chandra #2 main though, it's so much better to make a dude unable to block instead of a 2/2 from xenagos (worst case).
As for sideboarding, Ketter's board is pretty easy to figure out what goes in, but what comes out in the various matchups?
I would like to get some discussion on sideboarding going as well.
I'm not a fan of the 5th scry land, but I still think I'd rather it be red. I'm definitely disliking the flesh//blood in place of the fourth mortars main. Agree with the chandra #2 main though, it's so much better to make a dude unable to block instead of a 2/2 from xenagos (worst case).
As for sideboarding, Ketter's board is pretty easy to figure out what goes in, but what comes out in the various matchups?
I would like to get some discussion on sideboarding going as well.
On the courser vs. fanatic thing. I REALLY want to play Courser, but this build has tested well, so I don't think I'm going to make a major change like that for the PTQ now that I've thought about it some more. I'll post again Sunday re: how it runs at the PTQ.
Standard: Monoblack Devotion - BG Constellation
Modern: RG Tron - Melira Pod
Legacy: Bug Delver - Esper Deathblade
Yes those two cards together is much more aggressive, but this isnt an Aggro deck. We dont have to play on curve. We get to 4 mana and play threat after threat demanding an answer for each one until one of us is dead. Which is why you dont see Fanatics/boon satyrs in most lists anymore.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Ah, my bad. I thought the thread title said "[Primer] G/R Aggro/Midrange" must have misread that. I'll refrain from posting any heavily tested aggressive decks here in the future.
Standard: Monoblack Devotion - BG Constellation
Modern: RG Tron - Melira Pod
Legacy: Bug Delver - Esper Deathblade
4x Stomping Grounds
3x Temple of Abandon
9x Forest
6x Mountain
Creatures
3x Wasteland Viper
4x Elvish Mystic
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Fanatic of Xenagos
2x Rubblebelt Raiders
2x Nylea, God of the Hunt
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
2x Xenagos, God of Revels
2x Fall of the Hammer
2x Signal the Clans
2x Armed / Dangerous
Planeswalkers
3x Domri Rade
2x Ratcher Bomb
2x Plummet
2x Unravel the Aether
2x Skylasher
2x Mistcutter Hydra
2x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2x Skullcrack
1x Burning Earth
If you look at the G/R decks that were in the top 16 at Nashville, 2 of them had Fanatic and the other 3 had Courser. Even though the deck that placed 2nd had Courser, doesn't mean that is the only way the deck should be ran. The new format is just starting, we will see in time which card will see more play and what version of the deck (Aggro or Midrange) will be on top, just give it time.
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
I get what youre saying, but you have to think which one wins when they are both in play. Courser, not close. It blocks Fanatic like a boss, and give huge amounts of card advantage, and the life gain is not totally irrelevant either.
I see what you're saying. Both cards are good in the right decks, but both have downsides. Courser is a good card, but it's ability can hurt you by giving your opponent knowledge, and in this game, knowledge is power. I've seen people say that Courser is a mana dork, but it's not from my understanding. It's like having a extra card in your hand that your opponent can see, and you can't play it unless it's a land and when you play a land you gain one life. In the end of the day, we're not winning with Fanatic or Courser, we're beating our opponents with Hydras,Dragons,and Domris (Oh my lol).
Standard Decks:
Dinosaurs
Aggro Retired
Aggro Retired
Tokens Retired
Temur White Retired
Dragons Retired
Monsters Retired
Aggro Retired
Midrange Retired
Zombies Retired
It is kinda confusing though, the title of this thread. It should just be changed to G/R Monsters I think, as that's what most of the coverage folks list it as. Minor nitpick though.
Anyway, I'm shifting over to this build from the Devotion side. I love the idea of going huge with Nykthos, but the verdict is out, and this is the better deck for the metagame. I'm working on Kent Ketter's recent 2nd place list from Nashville, or something very similar. I'll be a couple cards off for a little bit(probably a Garruk and single Nykthos over a Domri/Mutavault), but otherwise I basically have the deck together. Should be able to run it through some local gauntlets next week.
Psyched to be playing a Tier 1 deck in standard finally. I knew investing in the R/G staples would payoff this season.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
What's the MBD matchup like? I haven't tested it and it seems like a Thoughtseize + any 2-4 drop play is very bad news for us. We don't go larger than a 6/6 for 4 and if our ramp is stripped then we can't out pace them. I suppose by playing Domri t2-3 we can keep their DD tapped down with mana dorks, but it seems like quite a few things need to go right for us to win the MBD matchup.
We're built to beat UW control decks (I've never not 2-0'd a UW deck) so that MU isn't a major concern.
MUD looks rough after watching the finals match last week. Our SB helps quite a bit (Gruul Charm + Plummet) but it seems like we need Polukranos early to win that game.
To concur with Kent Ketter, I found Scooze lacking and wishing he was a dork. I still run Nykthos, even though I don't run major devotion enablers, and it can create some great situations. I run 4x Elvish Mystic, 3x Sylvan Caryatid, and 2x Voyaging Satyr.
Everything else is in flux so posting my list is pointless, although Courser is included over Fanatic.
Mana base:
What's the opinion on running the 5th scryland as Ketter suggests? Effective, useful, worthless?
I must have missed it, but where did Ketter discuss his list?
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27907_The-Industry-Standard-Ahhh-Real-Monsters.html
I'm not a fan of the 5th scry land, but I still think I'd rather it be red. I'm definitely disliking the flesh//blood in place of the fourth mortars main. Agree with the chandra #2 main though, it's so much better to make a dude unable to block instead of a 2/2 from xenagos (worst case).
As for sideboarding, Ketter's board is pretty easy to figure out what goes in, but what comes out in the various matchups?
I took the following decklist to a GPT today, and thought I would express my thoughts.
4 sylvan caryatid
4 courser of kruphix
4 polukranos, world eater
4 ghor-clan rampager
2 arbor colossus
4 stormbreath dragon
2 xenagos, god of the revels
2 xenagos, the reveler
1 chandra, pyromaster
2 golgari charm
4 stomping ground
4 temple of abandon
1 temple of malice
2 mutavault
8 forest
4 mountain
3 mizzium mortars
1 bow of nylea
2 unravel the aether
4 mistcutter hydra
2 ruric that, the unbowed
2 gruul charm
1 chandra, pyromaster
I went 4-2 finished 11th.
Rnd 1 - U/W agroish deck utilising Ephara, God of the Polis[/card} - lacked removal and answers and had the 3 walkers and Courser of Kruphix games 1 & 3. Lost game two when he went Soldier, soldier, captain, D spere I had no plays.
Rnd 2 - G/R/W midrang control type, won G1 on back of two dragons with ghor clans, and some minor trades, lost games 2 & 3 Elspeth being one issue but in game 3 on the play I kept stomping ground and elvish mystic golding 2 Courser and Domri, polukranos dragon....got greedy and paid the price.
Rnd 3 - Mono Blue I lost 2-0, G1 double Tidebinder Mage and early thassa stopped me from appling pressure. G2 He gets double Tidebinder again and I am unlucky to draw all high mana cards and overloaded MM was a turn too late.
Rnd 4 - Golgari utilising Reper, DD. polukranos and the standard removal suit. T2 Domri put me on the front foot and was fotunate to keep applying pressure. Lost G2 due to horrible draws, opening hand was good everything else was not. G3 was the same as first, early constant pressure.
In this game the Courser provided the double bluff. Twice it showed my opponent that he I drew a Ghor Clan Rampager, So I swing with dragon and he chooses to conserve his DD, I then main 2 play Domri and kill big Fatty. I am not saying I am the bees knees, but this move over a few games or using the god snagged me many powerful created by holding back the Domri.
Rnd 5 - U/W/R Control, on the play early Courser and Xenagos the reveler netted me advantage, G2 I miss 2 land drops, he -2 Jace and reveals Brimaz, Archangel, Elspeth!! I put them all in a single pile he chooses them and in response I scoop :). G3 Early Xenagos combined with dragon and Chor Clan support netted me a fast easy win.
Rnd 6 = Mono Black, He goes first and thoughtseizes out my elvish mystic leaving Dragon, Polukranos, Xenagod, Domri stomping ground. I proceed to draw a mystic (I know stupid lucky) he thoughtseized again T2 but was now facing down ramp and I stayed ahead of this removal. G2 he goes thoughtseize packrat several turns later wins. G3 Early Courser followed by Xenagos PW and he stumbled on a land drop and my pressure and domri trick keep me ahead all game.
Thoughts, Do not get greedy like I did in Rnd 2, cost me a match I could have won.
Courser of Kruphix is going to be amazing for the next 18 months, wow he is bonkers.
Deck surprisingly leans heavy on Domri and Dragon.
Xenagod is good, definately worth the include, not an I win button. He has to be finessed and played approprately.
Mono blue was tough, I drew attrocious game 2 and G1 I was probably not in it.
The MBD & G/B both showcased some removal and beaters, I was able to ride the wave and keep pressure.
On the deck itself;
MB - I tried [Golgari Charm[/card] as a tech, I thought it had lots of relevant targets, I never cast it once and it was a dead card only once. I seem to have lost Flesh/blood and no one has any amongst friends, so I took the opportunity to experiment.
I would love the opinion, another GPT tomorrow, I am considering removing the 2 Golgari Charm and using 2 [Deadbridge Goliath[/card] or 2 Boros Charm (switch scry land). The amount of times I wanted a different four drop or a different type of pressure, it is still a 5/5 beater. It is the scavenge that has me excited.
SB - Bow of Nylea and the 2 Gruul Charms did not see play )I forgot against MUD to bring charms in. I think Bow should go for 4th Mizzium Mortars or even Garruck. I put it in for the Morrir match.
I hope you made it through my wall o txt, and please if some feedback can be given I am all for it. GPT again tomorrow and a couple tweeks in order but the deck has power.
Oh and if you missed it, Courser of Kruphix is amazing!!
I'm not a God, but the creator of God's
Glad to hear yet another person say how much they like Courser of Kruphix. Ari Lax commented on it in one of his articles, saying he wasn't really sure that it was actually good. But from everyone else I've heard only good things. I still need to finish my playset though, so hopefully the price doesn't jump through the roof.
Anyway, I like your list, just have a couple recommendations. First, why in god's name are you playing Golgari Charm?? I'm assuming you like the regeneration clause? The other phases seem only marginally relevant for a maindeck card, and even the regenerate mode is only sometimes relevant. Mostly though, you just can't splash a card like that off of a mere 5 mana sources. If you wanted to play a 3rd color card like that, I'd say you need bare minimum, 8-10 sources of black to make it castable. Both Golgari Charm and Boros Charm are very timing-specific cards when you're looking to save the team, and you just aren't going to be able to cast them on time with just Caryatids and a random scry land. Mostly though, I don't think you need them. This deck is designed to trade monsters for removal until the opponent is dead. We have built in card advantage to get over any 2-for-1's our opponents might throw at us (mostly Supreme Verdict), and every single card we play is generally a threat to them. We just play haymakers until the opponent runs out of answers and then we win. The Charms are reactive cards, and they are bad draws when you don't have an already established board. More monsters or actual removal seems much better in those slots.
Arbor Colossus is also a card that doesn't seem necessary in a non-Nykthos deck, unless for some reason you are having a tough time with fliers in your meta. Personally though, I would move those to the SB, cut the 2 Charms, and play 4 Mizzium Mortars in you maindeck. Removal is pretty key for us, as we want to be able to handle a few problematic staples in the format right now. They aren't great against control (which is the only place I think you'd want the charms), but they are relevant against the rest of the format. Pushing through damage early is oftentimes key, as is getting rid of Pack Rats and the various white cards that can cause us trouble. Overload is also a pretty big bonus, and can be relevant against stuff like Elspeth.
If you want to run a "black" card in the maindeck, Flesh/Blood is pretty sweet as a 1-2 of, perhaps in a Mizzium slot. In that case, the black mana is just a bonus, as you are mostly just casting it as a massive burn spell. With Xenagod in the deck, you can often deal insane amounts of damage with the Blood side of the card.
Not sure how I feel about Deadbridge Goliath. Sometimes Polukranos is amazing, but sometimes he's just a big dumb 5/5. If Goliath had trample, I'd say it's great, but his Scavenge ability isn't enough to justify running him in my opinion. And Flesh/Blood does the same thing if you ever get that much mana, but with any card in your graveyard instead. I'd rather see a couple on-curve creatures, like a Scavenging Ooze or a pair of Fanatic of Xenagos.
In short, read Kent Ketter's SCG article titled "The Industry Standard. Ahhh! Real Monsters" . I really think his deck is very close to optimal.
To the Mods our there: what's the deal with pasting links on this new forum? Doesn't seem to work?
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
Interesting trying to include Golgari Charm, and your plans to consider Boros Charm. How do you feel these changes might improve the deck?
You need more mana sources of those colors to add a third color, though. Five (counting Caryatid, which could be destroyed by Devour Flesh, Supreme Verdict, etc) is HALF what you should have. I'd change all the mountains to shock lands if you really want to try this. Personally, I'd rather have 4 Mizzium Mortars in the main.
I play the colossus for threat saturation, I admit it gets boarded a little.
I would prefer boros charm or selesnya charm as a splash purely due to creature interaction, if I need to trample though a token or maybe double strike a chor claned creatur. I am trying tk deadbridge today and running a 4th mortars side jnless I get my hands on a flesh/blood.
Thanks gyys.
I'm not a God, but the creator of God's
I would like to get some discussion on sideboarding going as well.
Here is his list:
6 Mountain
2 Mutavault
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Mystery
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
4 Domri Rade
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Flesh
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Gruul Charm
2 Plummet
2 Unravel the Aether
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Flesh
My (bad) guesses for sideboard are as follows:
Mono B
+2 Arbor Colossus
+2 Plummet
+1 Xenagos, the Reveler
-3 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Sylvan Caryatid
-1 Flesh
Mono U
+3 Mistcutter Hydra
+1 Flesh
-1 Xenagos, the Reveler
-1 Sylvan Caryatid
-2 Chandra, Pyromaster
RW and RG Devotion
+2 Gruul Charm
+2 Arbor Colossus
-1 Xenagos, the Reveler
-1 Xenagos, God of Revels
-2 Chandra, Pyromaster
GW Aggro
+ 2 Gruul Charm
- 2 Chandra, Pyromaster
UW Control
+ 2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
+ 3 Mistcutter Hydra
+ 2 Unravel the Aether
+ 1 Xenagos, the Reveler
- 4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
- 3 Mizzium Mortars
- 1 Flesh
RG Monsters
+ 2 Gruul Charm
+ 1 Flesh
+ 2 Arbor Colossus
- 1 Xenagos, the Reveler
- 2 Mizzium Mortars
- 1 Courser of Kruphix
- 1 Sylvan Caryatid
Would someone care to give their own opinion on the sideboarding plan?
pretty dangerous IMO to take all the morters out against U/W because they regularly will side in archangel of thune
Realistically though isn't UW Control so up against it countering our threats that they can't really generate counterplay like that?
Top 8 of a tournament I went to. Adam Iob has a very nice list and seemed ahead of the curve on development of RG Monsters.
Dan Unwin took out the PTQ (for the second time in 2 years).
The Mono U Devotion list finished first after rounds.
I came 16th with Monsters.