How does one deal with the orzhov midrange and esper midrange decks that are popping up?
Chandra is really good in this matchup. I take out boon satyr because it trades with their weak creatures. Add in shocks because it kills almost everything. Domri fight ability works great with a rampaged creature to kill desecration demon second main phase. Destructive Revelry works well too. Also, don't forget to exile there graveyard with Ooze early and often.
To take out Flesh // Blood : A dead card if your creature cannot survive next turn. Boon Satyr : Not so useful as it might end up blocking a 2/2 Pack Rat but they still continue making tokens. Scavenging Ooze : Does not impact the board so much and just gets killed before grow.
vs. Esper Midrange Chandra, Pyromaster : As most of their creatures with 1 toughness. Mizzium Mortars : Need more early game burn or mid game sweeper. Shock : Early game burn to slow down their game.
To take out Flesh // Blood : Similarly, you need a straight burn spell, not a burn spell that relies on creature's power.
Xenagos : Usually used as making a token as blocker but still dies next turn anyway.
Garruk : Need to stabilize the board until mid game for it to be useful, so better to take it out and bring in more burn spells for early game.
How does one deal with the orzhov midrange and esper midrange decks that are popping up?
I have added 3 Anger of the Gods to the side for these match ups plus any RDW/Sligh decks that pop up.
I played this deck to a 4-1 at my FNM on Friday. My loss was to a RDW/Sligh deck that just flat out smashed face. The problem while facing these really quick decks is that they have such cheap creatures that they over run you. In the Mid-range build of G/R often you can afford to burn one of your own mana dorks if your anger hits 3 or 4 of their guys on say turn 3 or 4.
Yes Shock is an option but you are one for one with shock. Often these decks drop 2 creatures a turn on turn 2,3, and 4 while you are only dropping 1. Often your first 1 or 2 creatures are mana dorks that don't trade with any creature they block.
Yes they have Brave the Elements but if they use brave the elements to protect their board at least they are not using Brave the Elements to alpha strike you allowing your creatures to block.
I would trade Elf for any of their 1 toughness (Rakdos Shred-Freak, Spike Jester, Firedrinker Satyr, etc) and Shock their 2 toughness or trade with Boon Satyr. At times, it is enough to stabilize until Polukranos hits into play. But then depends on situation. If they have like 3-4 Firedrinker Satyr and 2-3 Firefist Striker to whack on turn 3-4 like crazy hand, then it's a gone case too. Or split 2/2 with Shock and Anger of the Gods.
Fanatic will defo see play in Block Constructed since we were needing something else at the 3 slot. It's got potential in a more aggressive build topping out at fanatic/stormbreath.
I think Fanatic of Xenagos fits in just nice. Loxodon Smitter is hard enough to deal with, and this guy with trample. Opponent will be paying tribute because haste even worse. 2-3 cards from BNG that suitable in this build is good enough and this guy is one of them.
I went 3-1 in the MTGO Daily Standard today with this deck .
I took out Garruk, because just didn´t work for me, often been a dead card in hand or a ¨win more¨ card in play.
As amazing as Xenagos into Kalonian Hydra would be, I think there is too much competition for 5 drops in the deck as is. With Stormbreath Dragon at the top of our curve, we'd already be slowing down our deck by adding 2-4 Xenagos. I think Kalonian Hydra just isn't the right fit, especially considering how vulnerable it is to removal if Xenagos isn't on the field.
At Best I think the new Xenagos can only be a direct substitute for 2 Chandra's,Boon Satyrs, 2 of our removal spells or shave off a Xenagos Planeswalker and a Satyr etc.
Anything past that and I think we would need to reshape the whole deck if we wanted to use him in God Form.
I think Fanatic of Xenagos could be a good hard swap for Boon Satyr or time to shave down to 3 Polukranos and shave somewhere else.
Agreed, at instant speed too. Shuffling is as good as exiling, I'm sold.
Fanatic of Xenagos will be a direct swap with Boon Satyr for me. Xenagos, God of Revels however is rather difficult. Maybe to take out 3-4 removal spells out to make room for him ? Also, I'm a bit skeptical about 23 lands. Now that we have Xenagos, maybe 24-25 lands ? I'm a little bit worry on land screw now that we are moving towards high curve midrange.
This is a list im testing with right now. Its most haste focused game 1 which I like. Mainboard has 7 haste guy. 10 if you count EoT boon satyr. and 11 if you count Hammer.
Yea pretty much. You can have hands where it really cool. Also if I run BTE I would like to run Nykthos as well but I like the resilency of mutavault. And BTE hands can be torn apart by a single thoughtseize at times.
I rather play a bunch of consistant dudes instead of the Devotion style route of exploding on someone. I rather play turn 2 hammer, turn 3 polukranos, turn 4 dude, etc etc.
There may be room for another hammer but im not sure wha tI would cut if anything.
Yea pretty much. You can have hands where it really cool. Also if I run BTE I would like to run Nykthos as well but I like the resilency of mutavault. And BTE hands can be torn apart by a single thoughtseize at times.
Yeah, I certainly agree that devotion hands that are all mana accelerants and 6-drops can be made really awkward by Thoughtseize.
I still think GRDev matches up vs monoB a little better than this deck though because planeswalkers and Nylea are more resilient to their billions of spot removal spells.
I rather play a bunch of consistant dudes instead of the Devotion style route of exploding on someone. I rather play turn 2 hammer, turn 3 polukranos, turn 4 dude, etc etc.
Which matchups do you think are better for you? Because you have 23 lands and 8 mana bugs, so you suffer from the same problems of (lack of) threat density, but without the card advantage mechanisms in planewalkers that can offset that lack of threats.
Yeah, I certainly agree that devotion hands that are all mana accelerants and 6-drops can be made really awkward by Thoughtseize.
I still think GRDev matches up vs monoB a little better than this deck though because planeswalkers and Nylea are more resilient to their billions of spot removal spells.
Which matchups do you think are better for you? Because you have 23 lands and 8 mana bugs, so you suffer from the same problems of (lack of) threat density, but without the card advantage mechanisms in planewalkers that can offset that lack of threats.
You have a real grab-bag of cards there. Is this roughly how you see the cards being useful? (although Mortars and Hydra are good vs multiple decks).
I've been having success with 2x Mistcutter Hydra in the main and have been thinking about moving the third from the side to the main. I also won a match because I had 1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the main. I don't think that was as good of a choice as the Hydras.
About BTE: He's designed for agro, this is a midrange list. I very much dislike BTE in this build. Turn 2 has a lot more impact with this deck when you drop a Scavenging Ooze or ramp into a Domri Rade.
I've been having success with 2x Mistcutter Hydra in the main and have been thinking about moving the third from the side to the main. I also won a match because I had 1x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in the main. I don't think that was as good of a choice as the Hydras.
About BTE: He's designed for agro, this is a midrange list. I very much dislike BTE in this build. Turn 2 has a lot more impact with this deck when you drop a Scavenging Ooze or ramp into a Domri Rade.
About BTE i completely aggre with that. Except BTE is also better in devotion builds thanks to the double green and he gives mana trigger.
Chandra is really good in this matchup. I take out boon satyr because it trades with their weak creatures. Add in shocks because it kills almost everything. Domri fight ability works great with a rampaged creature to kill desecration demon second main phase. Destructive Revelry works well too. Also, don't forget to exile there graveyard with Ooze early and often.
I think it is our toughest MU against these two decks, but still winnable.
vs. Orzhov Midrange
Chandra, Pyromaster : Kills Lifebane Zombie, Pack Rat and DD can't block.
Destructive Revelry : Obviously for Underworld Connections.
Plummet : Kills Desecration Demon or Nightveil Specter.
Mizzium Mortars : Access to more removals.
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed : A guaranteed 6 damage.
To take out
Flesh // Blood : A dead card if your creature cannot survive next turn.
Boon Satyr : Not so useful as it might end up blocking a 2/2 Pack Rat but they still continue making tokens.
Scavenging Ooze : Does not impact the board so much and just gets killed before grow.
vs. Esper Midrange
Chandra, Pyromaster : As most of their creatures with 1 toughness.
Mizzium Mortars : Need more early game burn or mid game sweeper.
Shock : Early game burn to slow down their game.
To take out
Flesh // Blood : Similarly, you need a straight burn spell, not a burn spell that relies on creature's power.
Xenagos : Usually used as making a token as blocker but still dies next turn anyway.
Garruk : Need to stabilize the board until mid game for it to be useful, so better to take it out and bring in more burn spells for early game.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
I have added 3 Anger of the Gods to the side for these match ups plus any RDW/Sligh decks that pop up.
I played this deck to a 4-1 at my FNM on Friday. My loss was to a RDW/Sligh deck that just flat out smashed face. The problem while facing these really quick decks is that they have such cheap creatures that they over run you. In the Mid-range build of G/R often you can afford to burn one of your own mana dorks if your anger hits 3 or 4 of their guys on say turn 3 or 4.
Yes Shock is an option but you are one for one with shock. Often these decks drop 2 creatures a turn on turn 2,3, and 4 while you are only dropping 1. Often your first 1 or 2 creatures are mana dorks that don't trade with any creature they block.
Yes they have Brave the Elements but if they use brave the elements to protect their board at least they are not using Brave the Elements to alpha strike you allowing your creatures to block.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Meh, this card is very similar to Ghor-Clan Rampager, which doesn't see much play now. And Rampager might even be the better card anyway.
I suppose there's the possibility of a very agro version running both.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
I took out Garruk, because just didn´t work for me, often been a dead card in hand or a ¨win more¨ card in play.
3 Boon Satyr
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Polukranos
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Sylvan Caryatid
Planeswalkers
2 Xenagos, the reveler
3 Domri Rade
2 Blood
2 Magma Jet
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Clan Defiance
Lands
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
5 Mountain
8 Forest
2 Mutavault
4 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Destructive revelry
1 Gruul Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Plummet
1 Ruric Thar, the unbowed
2 Shock
That is all.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Anything past that and I think we would need to reshape the whole deck if we wanted to use him in God Form.
I think Fanatic of Xenagos could be a good hard swap for Boon Satyr or time to shave down to 3 Polukranos and shave somewhere else.
I've never been too excited to get the two damage from revelry, but the ability to deal with Thassa is fantastic.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
Fanatic of Xenagos will be a direct swap with Boon Satyr for me. Xenagos, God of Revels however is rather difficult. Maybe to take out 3-4 removal spells out to make room for him ? Also, I'm a bit skeptical about 23 lands. Now that we have Xenagos, maybe 24-25 lands ? I'm a little bit worry on land screw now that we are moving towards high curve midrange.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
8 [UNH] Forest
5 [UNH] Mountain
4 [THS] Temple of Abandon
4 [GTC] Stomping Ground
2 [M14] Mutavault
2 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
4 [THS] Polukranos, World Eater
4 [M14] Elvish Mystic
4 [THS] Sylvan Caryatid
4 [THS] Stormbreath Dragon
4 [GTC] Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 [THS] Mistcutter Hydra
3 [THS] Boon Satyr
4 [GTC] Domri Rade
2 [RTR] Mizzium Mortars
2 [DGM] Flesh/Blood
1 [THS] Hammer of Purphoros
Thoughts on the maindeck?
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
If what you're wanting is to be the fastest kid around, why wouldn't you run Burning-Tree Emissary?
It's basically a Frogmite (2/2 for 0).
Did you find it too low impact?
Yea pretty much. You can have hands where it really cool. Also if I run BTE I would like to run Nykthos as well but I like the resilency of mutavault. And BTE hands can be torn apart by a single thoughtseize at times.
I rather play a bunch of consistant dudes instead of the Devotion style route of exploding on someone. I rather play turn 2 hammer, turn 3 polukranos, turn 4 dude, etc etc.
There may be room for another hammer but im not sure wha tI would cut if anything.
This is what the board is currently look like.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
Yeah, I certainly agree that devotion hands that are all mana accelerants and 6-drops can be made really awkward by Thoughtseize.
I still think GRDev matches up vs monoB a little better than this deck though because planeswalkers and Nylea are more resilient to their billions of spot removal spells.
Which matchups do you think are better for you? Because you have 23 lands and 8 mana bugs, so you suffer from the same problems of (lack of) threat density, but without the card advantage mechanisms in planewalkers that can offset that lack of threats.
You have a real grab-bag of cards there. Is this roughly how you see the cards being useful? (although Mortars and Hydra are good vs multiple decks).
vs aggro:
SB: 2 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 2 Shock
vs monoU
SB: 1 Gruul Charm
SB: 2 Plummet
SB: 1 Mistcutter Hydra
vs Control
SB: 1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
SB: 2 Xenagos, the Reveler
SB: 1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
vs Midrange
SB: 1 Bow of Nylea
Bow also comes in against MonoU and GW aggro. But thats close to right.
Im also thinking of this mainboard list.
8 Forest
5 Mountain
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Stomping Ground
2 Mutavault
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Boon Satyr
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Domri Rade
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Flesh/Blood
1 Hammer of Purphoros
More focused on the creatures and having tanky good creatures on curve.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW
About BTE: He's designed for agro, this is a midrange list. I very much dislike BTE in this build. Turn 2 has a lot more impact with this deck when you drop a Scavenging Ooze or ramp into a Domri Rade.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
About BTE i completely aggre with that. Except BTE is also better in devotion builds thanks to the double green and he gives mana trigger.
Standard:RWUJeskai WinsRWU
Modern:GWBMelira PodGWB
Legacy:WDeath & TaxesW