While I'm not defending the deck in question (the sideboard and white being more than questionable), you're going to have to explain your logic here. Wether or not nykthos is correct, there are ways of using 7-10 mana without having any 7-10 mana spells in your deck: pack rats and underworld connections being the two most obvious culprits
secondly, i don't see why pack rats and rachet bomb, are at odds with each other. can you explain that to me? are you worried that you'll top deck a ratchet bomb with pack rats in play?
You can only remove so much in the main board to add these sideboard cards. The decklist is already tight enough as is.
A faced a pretty big threat today from MRD, don't know if they're discussing it in their thread or this was a rogue addition but Cryptborn Horror is horrific. I found myself fighting against a hasty (Hammer was in play) 7/7 Trampler that can't be targeted by Doom Blade or Ultimate Price turn 5.
What do you Guys think about Lotleth Troll and Deathrite Shaman ? I would use the shaman in a mirror match or other matchups with an opponent using whip to get creatures back (gray merchant...).
Why Lotleth Troll ?
Black/Green
Cant be killed with doom blade and ultimate price.
And if there is something which could kill him, just use his Regenerate ability.
Only abrupt Decay can kill him at any time the opponent wants.
Also we have a 2/1 body (because of regenerate it isnt that bad) with trample. If we discard useless cards we can give him a +1/+1 counter, so, we can pump him up.
Whats your opinion on this ?
The shaman I've always thought of as an interesting pick mostly for the 2 damage pings. I don't think it is quite good enough to get there though. With fetchlands it certainly would have though.
On Lotleth Troll: No. Big No. In order for that card to be good you need to A: Have an aggressive deck that can use a resistant 2-drop or B: Have a plethora of cards that synergize with the ability. Truthfully, you *should* have both. Black Devotion has neither.
The deck is a midrange-control deck. Lotleth Troll does not fit that archetype. Moreover, it has very little synergy with the other cards. You certainly do NOT want to be discarding away your other creatures, especially when none of them have scavenge and your only graveyard recursion is the whip.
In other words, yes it is hard to remove. But it doesn't *do* anything. On the other hand, Pack Rat is hard to remove as well. It is just a way better option.
yeah. ratchet bomb is an awesome answer to pack rats, because it kills the rat and all tokens the rat could produce. and, unlike pithing needle, you can get rid of it if you draw your own rats. also, if you already have rats in play, it's okay because ratchet bomb is a split card. it's a suspend vindicate AND it's a 2B rat lord.
Ahh, I see. So tick it up to two and completely wipe their board.
Anyone test Ratchet Bomb out in the sideboard before? It seems to be the go-to card for mono-black's clearest weakness-- swarm aggro starts consisting of many 1-2 drop creatures. Without splashing green, it's the only sweeper available to mono-black.
Anyhow, do any of you have any advice for the mono-blue devotion matchup? What cards should I be looking to bring in games 2-3? Right now I play a 3/4/3 maindeck split between Devour Flesh, Hero's Downfall, and Ultimate Price -- with 1 Dark Betrayal, 2 Doom Blade, and 1 Devour Flesh in the side. Should I just be boarding in the 2 Doom Blade and 1 Devour Flesh? I feel like my playtesting results have been skewed because of my misunderstanding of the matchup. I kept both Whip of Erebos and all 4 Underworld Connections in against mono-blue, but they seem extremely slow; meanwhile, Devour Flesh seems terrible against mono-blue, but I need all the removal I can get. I don't mind drawing Devour Flesh in the first few turns of the game, but afterward, it seems just dead.
The Green splash really performed well, but I kept flooding very badly (I had 3 games with Underworld Connections out and went 5 turns with it and my regular draw and got 3 or less non-land spells.) And yes, I pile shuffled. Some nights... Magic is magical...
Anyone else having flooding issues? I lost 4 games last night thanks to flooding. I really expected it would be the BG mana base, but that was never a problem for me.
It makes me want to consider Liliana of the Dark Realms. Good devotion, grab swamps, thin the deck, reshuffle, and removal. Just not sure where I would put one main.
I know that mainboard I am +1 Underworld Connections (4 seems right), -1 Putrefy since I still have 10 removal spells, and +1 Mutavault, -1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Our devotion value comes from permanents into Gray Merchant and Erebos, as opposed to overloading something.
@redtwister: how many lands were you running? The manabase for bg should be no more or less susceptible to flooding than the regular mono black manabase. I would likely chalk your issues up to variance unless there was a significant change you made in the number of lands. I'm also not sold on illness in the ranks. Assemble is one of the strongest cards against us, but illness is much more narrow than golgari charm, which is still an acceptable answer. I also don't see a reason to run putrefy anywhere in the 75. 2 cmc is a bigger upside than anything putrefy has to offer. IMO the only reason you want the green splash is abrupt decay. Charm and mistcutter are the only other green cards I've found myself running.
@redtwister: how many lands were you running? The manabase for bg should be no more or less susceptible to flooding than the regular mono black manabase. I would likely chalk your issues up to variance unless there was a significant change you made in the number of lands. I'm also not sold on illness in the ranks. Assemble is one of the strongest cards against us, but illness is much more narrow than golgari charm, which is still an acceptable answer. I also don't see a reason to run putrefy anywhere in the 75. 2 cmc is a bigger upside than anything putrefy has to offer. IMO the only reason you want the green splash is abrupt decay. Charm and mistcutter are the only other green cards I've found myself running.
i agree about putrefy i cut them from my main deck and have been considering removing them from the sb. to often i would find my self holding a putrefy and a heros downfall and really needing turn 2 removal.
which (other) options do we have for the cmc 2 spot ?
Pack Rats ? Returned Phalanx ? Other cards ?
You say, Lotleth Troll is used for a more aggressiv deck, then why do we use Pack Rat ?
Isnt it also used for putting up some early pressur ?
Yes, Pack Rat contributes also too devotion and a lot if we have multiple rats on the battlefield, but, you need to get there to gain profit of the pack rat. If you dont have multiple pack rat cards, well, i guess you discard a card too, to get a pack rat copy on the battlefield, dont you ?
I will test Lotleth Troll and cut out 3x rats against 3x trolls.
Lothleth Troll cant be the target of doom blade or ultimate price (later one kills rat at any time ...), it can be regenerated, with the regeneration ability, the 2/1 body isnt that bad anymore for a 2 drop.
Thats what i think about it, but iam also a magic beginner, so, maybe i overlook some things or so.
Edit: Well, i didnt read the card text correctly, now i know, that you can only discard creatures. Thats really a big negativ point, mhh ...
regards
Chris
pack rat is a beast in the mirror or against esper control if you get it rolling in the mid to late game. and it turns all the extra lands you draw from connections into beat sticks. its far superior to the troll in my opinion
Jare will be happy to know that I went back to Thoughtseize and Mutavault after switching to the green splash. Here's the latest list on which I'm focusing my testing. It performs pretty well.
That looks a lot, A LOT better. I would say though that you probably should have some number of Specters in the maindeck. You only have 4 colorless lands. You should be able to play it consistently and it is simply a better Game 1 card than Lifebane Zombie. Maybe a 3/2 split between that and Lifebane Zombie. I also think 4 Abrupt Decay is 1 too much and I'd play 3/2 Demons to Reapers.
Jare will be happy to know that I went back to Thoughtseize and Mutavault after switching to the green splash. Here's the latest list on which I'm focusing my testing. It performs pretty well.
I like the list! How's 24 lands going for you? I think we might be able to get away with it, especially if we use Temple of Mystery over Breeding Grounds for draw fixing, but I'm not sure. And only one Pack Rat? Just asking why.
Has anyone tried Sylvan Caryatid in the main over the pack rats and as a 2 or 3 of and if you have what has your results been? I feel it fills the same role as Prophetic Prism in Gerry Thompsons list from the invitation and just takes advantage of the green splash.
I tested it as a 4 (only to increase my chances of drawing it in testing) of earlier today and it performed amazing well. I know it's not usually what the deck is trying to do but with the green duals I never had a problem playing it turn 2 when I opened with it and it allowed for turn 3 demons, underworld connections with a same turn draw or thoughtseize, mana-fixing for Nightveil Spectre and helped me fight through mana screws fairly easily. I admit the sample size was very limited (probably 10 games or so) but I felt it over-performed in the deck.
EDIT: The only reason I tried it over pack rat is that it hasn't been doing particularly well for me at the moment, though I still feel it's worth a slot or two in the main board.
I run BW splash, haven't been super impressed with baron but he's baron. Eviction has been quite the card though as it literally hits every problem card for this deck (gods, walkers, enchantments).
Has anyone tried Sylvan Caryatid in the main over the pack rats and as a 2 or 3 of and if you have what has your results been? I feel it fills the same role as Prophetic Prism in Gerry Thompsons list from the invitation and just takes advantage of the green splash.
I tested it as a 4 (only to increase my chances of drawing it in testing) of earlier today and it performed amazing well. I know it's not usually what the deck is trying to do but with the green duals I never had a problem playing it turn 2 when I opened with it and it allowed for turn 3 demons, underworld connections with a same turn draw or thoughtseize, mana-fixing for Nightveil Spectre and helped me fight through mana screws fairly easily. I admit the sample size was very limited (probably 10 games or so) but I felt it over-performed in the deck.
EDIT: The only reason I tried it over pack rat is that it hasn't been doing particularly well for me at the moment, though I still feel it's worth a slot or two in the main board.
I feel like caryatid is why to run green, not putrefy and not decay, caryatid. If you are splashing green I think this card is the biggest boon this deck gets from the color. I'm not a fan of des. demon but caryatid into turn 3 demon is an absurd clock, it accels this decks mana, and it helps against red blitz as a blocker they can't burn and that is one of the deck's only real bad matchups. Though deadbridge chant would be pretty fun to try out.
The problem with Sylvan Caryatid is, where do you put it in without diluting what the deck does?
In B(g), we can add 3-4 Abrupt Decay and 2 Golgari Charm, not only without diluting a key part of what the deck does (kill creatures), but enhancing it (destroy non-permanents). What is Caryatid replacing that does not dilute the deck? Where are 3 Caryatid in hand a good thing? Three of almost anything else in hand, except maybe Asphodel, is good.
Also, Caryatid needs Green mana and a turn in play before it comes online, slowing the deck down in most cases. Instant speed removal only needs the single G.
I love Caryatid, but I don't see ramp as being all that advantageous compared to the downside once you start looking at cards you would remove (probably 2 Pack Rat, but then 2 of what else?)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Has anyone thought about replacing DD with RotW all together? Yes it is 1 less devotion, but I feel like the scrying we get from RotW will help improve consistency much more than the Demon who is the epitome of inconsistent.
So where i play at standard tournaments are on wed so here is what i played i ended up going 4-0. Here is what i played. sorry if deck tag thing i messed up i havent posted on the forums in a while.
1st Round: Mono blue devotion- Game one i mulled down to 5 as i didnt see lands in first 2 hands, and kept a not so good hand, but a hand i thought would be better then going down to 4. He basically got Thassa out with the devotion and steam rolled me. Game 2 what it came down to was him having 2 Bident of Thassa's out and Owls, and him playing master the waves, i them proceeded to board wipe with golgari charm and then just beat him down with Demons, and dropping out Gray Merchants. Game 3 He had a very similar hand as his first one, but this time i had a good hand. Basically he did the first 2 turns that mono blue does, turn 1 cloud fin turn 2 tidebinder turn 3 thassa, and then had Spectre in hand, what happened diffrently this game is i had Fade into Antiquity and basically won off that and dropping out Pack Rat and ran him over with the rat squad and gray merchants.
Round 2: Esper Control- Game 1 i just ran him over with dudes he board wiped i whipd then just won basically. Game 2 i sided in pithing needle, Duress, and Eerebos knowing he would be putting in Bloodbarons, and to stop Sphinxs Revs heal. I just Durresd and thought seized him out of the game, he played blood baron i played Erebos and just beat him down with Demons and such.
Round 3: G/W Aggro more of the tokeny one, basically like the one that won the star city. Game 1 he just beat me straight up. Rootborn Defense won that game for him. Game 2 he had me on the ropes most the game got me down to 5 health before i dropped a turn 6 gray merchant, then turn 7 merchant. Then i beat him down with those. Game 3 Nuts hand for me turn 1 thought seize turn 2 pack rat. Turn 3 Lifebane turn 4 lifebane turn 5 gray merchant. WIN.
Round 4: U/W Control- I was against one of my friends who i test with alot, who is a very very solid player, best in the area that i play at, he basically taught me a lot of what i know now. We ended up drawing and splitting the prize pool, but then we played for the extra pack. Game 1 i just thought seize him out of the game and eneded up killing him with Erebos with him being online through 2 under world connections which he had detention sphered, but i just abrupt decay them. Game 2 was the best game of magic i think i have ever played, basically it went into top deck wars after i thought seize and durresed him out of the game. Then the fun part started where every draw was an answer for the others person play. He top decked elspeth to kill my demon, i top deck heros downfall to kill elspeth. He top deck Atherling, i top decked pithing needle. He drew Detention sphere for my Pithing needle, i drew abrupt decay. Then after that i got under world connections out, and that won me the game.
After playing in this tournament i dont think that i would make any changes, especially for where i play at. If i decide to go to a bigger tournament i may make some changes on what the big decks are, but they wouldnt be big at all. Maybe add another abrupt decay, but 3 felt like the perfect about, i saw them when i needed them. Green was def the best color to splash for brings what u need for the board, and helps alot against other whip decks i decided like an hour before the tourny started to add the green in. Me and my friends have a gauntlet going, so i am going to be testing against all the popular decks, and other ones.
Has anyone thought about replacing DD with RotW all together? Yes it is 1 less devotion, but I feel like the scrying we get from RotW will help improve consistency much more than the Demon who is the epitome of inconsistent.
No. Reaper is the definition of a slow beater. It rarely "wins" you games, save over long term card quality. It isn't a bad card to have 1 or 2 of. But Demon "wins" games by itself.
One of them is a nuisance. The other is a threat that needs to be dealt with immediately.
No. Reaper is the definition of a slow beater. It rarely "wins" you games, save over long term card quality. It isn't a bad card to have 1 or 2 of. But Demon "wins" games by itself.
One of them is a nuisance. The other is a threat that needs to be dealt with immediately.
Exactly this. I was at first a little reluctant about using the Demon, but seeing his power in an actual game helped to convince me. My opponent wasn’t running an all–out aggro deck, so saccing his own creatures to tap out my Demon was a glorious bit of attrition.
personally i would say: The demon "can" win you the games, IF the opponent doesnt controll an army of tokens or small frys and you controll a demon and maybe 1 or 2 creatures more ...
What is so bad about the reaper ? I do like both, the reaper and demon.
If you are facing an opponent with a lot of removel, the reaper can at least protect it self (2 mana and it goes hexproof) against some removel, also, doom blade and ultimate price cant hit the reaper.
I am testing my deck with 4 lifebanes and 4 specters, no demons. You are absolutely right that demon can win you games. His clock is second to none for 4 mana. Problem is, in most situations his card advantage... is really a negative and can cost you the game. Where as both lifebane and specter CAN be positive card advantage. Also, they are whiped back much better than DD.
Anyone else gone this route? The only thing I dislike is it takes a lot longer to kill someone with those other two creatures, thus giving your opponent longer to find an out.
personally i would say: The demon "can" win you the games, IF the opponent doesnt controll an army of tokens or small frys and you controll a demon and maybe 1 or 2 creatures more ...
What is so bad about the reaper ? I do like both, the reaper and demon.
If you are facing an opponent with a lot of removel, the reaper can at least protect it self (2 mana and it goes hexproof) against some removel, also, doom blade and ultimate price cant hit the reaper.
The Reaper isn't "bad." It is slow. It is barely a threat. You have to hold mana back to protect it, and it has no evasion. The main reason anybody plays it is because of the scry and regen, which are both slow.
It is much harder to kill than Demon. But it isn't as scary. Playing 4 Reapers is, simply put, a big mistake.
In order from best to worst I'd rank them Demon-->Erebos-->Reaper. That being said, there is a case for having 1 or 2 Reapers in your maindeck. If you're splashing green I think a split of 3/1/2 or 4/1/1 is appropriate with regards to Demon/Erebos/Reaper.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You can only remove so much in the main board to add these sideboard cards. The decklist is already tight enough as is.
Mono Black B
Mono Blue U
Esper Control BUW (Soon)
Commander
Mindseize BRU
Esper BWU
Modern
Black Deck Wins B
Goblin Deck Wins R
I find desecration demon pretty underwhelming in the mirror. I'd much rather have more rats and rat answers there. still, a fair answer
If he gets as popular as Nightveil Specter in MUD I think we'll have to add a couple more Dark Betrayal to the side.
The shaman I've always thought of as an interesting pick mostly for the 2 damage pings. I don't think it is quite good enough to get there though. With fetchlands it certainly would have though.
On Lotleth Troll: No. Big No. In order for that card to be good you need to A: Have an aggressive deck that can use a resistant 2-drop or B: Have a plethora of cards that synergize with the ability. Truthfully, you *should* have both. Black Devotion has neither.
The deck is a midrange-control deck. Lotleth Troll does not fit that archetype. Moreover, it has very little synergy with the other cards. You certainly do NOT want to be discarding away your other creatures, especially when none of them have scavenge and your only graveyard recursion is the whip.
In other words, yes it is hard to remove. But it doesn't *do* anything. On the other hand, Pack Rat is hard to remove as well. It is just a way better option.
Ahh, I see. So tick it up to two and completely wipe their board.
Anyhow, do any of you have any advice for the mono-blue devotion matchup? What cards should I be looking to bring in games 2-3? Right now I play a 3/4/3 maindeck split between Devour Flesh, Hero's Downfall, and Ultimate Price -- with 1 Dark Betrayal, 2 Doom Blade, and 1 Devour Flesh in the side. Should I just be boarding in the 2 Doom Blade and 1 Devour Flesh? I feel like my playtesting results have been skewed because of my misunderstanding of the matchup. I kept both Whip of Erebos and all 4 Underworld Connections in against mono-blue, but they seem extremely slow; meanwhile, Devour Flesh seems terrible against mono-blue, but I need all the removal I can get. I don't mind drawing Devour Flesh in the first few turns of the game, but afterward, it seems just dead.
Anyone else having flooding issues? I lost 4 games last night thanks to flooding. I really expected it would be the BG mana base, but that was never a problem for me.
It makes me want to consider Liliana of the Dark Realms. Good devotion, grab swamps, thin the deck, reshuffle, and removal. Just not sure where I would put one main.
I know that mainboard I am +1 Underworld Connections (4 seems right), -1 Putrefy since I still have 10 removal spells, and +1 Mutavault, -1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx. Our devotion value comes from permanents into Gray Merchant and Erebos, as opposed to overloading something.
Abrupt Decay and Golgari Charm were amazing. Putrefy was okay. Gaze of Granite was fair, but actually against Mono-U and Control (Elspeth is a win condition in all control decks and Assemble The Legion is the wincon against us for UWR, see Shaheen Soorani's latest article at SCG), Illness in the Ranks was absurdly effective and much better.
My impression is that having 5 additional targeted removal in the sideboard was very effective and is something to carry over from the pure Mono-B.
So I am changing my sideboard to adjust as well.
3 Lifebane Zombie
2 Illness in the Ranks
2 Doom Blade
1 Ultimate Price
1 Dark Betrayal
1 Putrefy
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Pithing Needle
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
i agree about putrefy i cut them from my main deck and have been considering removing them from the sb. to often i would find my self holding a putrefy and a heros downfall and really needing turn 2 removal.
pack rat is a beast in the mirror or against esper control if you get it rolling in the mid to late game. and it turns all the extra lands you draw from connections into beat sticks. its far superior to the troll in my opinion
I only run 25 lands, I think it was just Magic being Magic.
I agree on Putrefy, I am moving away from it for an extra Doomblade.
Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay have been all stars, but Illness in the Ranks is surprisingly good as a 1-of.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
B/w devotion for Merciless Eviction and Blood Baron of Vizkopa might be fun to test out
That looks a lot, A LOT better. I would say though that you probably should have some number of Specters in the maindeck. You only have 4 colorless lands. You should be able to play it consistently and it is simply a better Game 1 card than Lifebane Zombie. Maybe a 3/2 split between that and Lifebane Zombie. I also think 4 Abrupt Decay is 1 too much and I'd play 3/2 Demons to Reapers.
I like the list! How's 24 lands going for you? I think we might be able to get away with it, especially if we use Temple of Mystery over Breeding Grounds for draw fixing, but I'm not sure. And only one Pack Rat? Just asking why.
I tested it as a 4 (only to increase my chances of drawing it in testing) of earlier today and it performed amazing well. I know it's not usually what the deck is trying to do but with the green duals I never had a problem playing it turn 2 when I opened with it and it allowed for turn 3 demons, underworld connections with a same turn draw or thoughtseize, mana-fixing for Nightveil Spectre and helped me fight through mana screws fairly easily. I admit the sample size was very limited (probably 10 games or so) but I felt it over-performed in the deck.
EDIT: The only reason I tried it over pack rat is that it hasn't been doing particularly well for me at the moment, though I still feel it's worth a slot or two in the main board.
I run BW splash, haven't been super impressed with baron but he's baron. Eviction has been quite the card though as it literally hits every problem card for this deck (gods, walkers, enchantments).
I feel like caryatid is why to run green, not putrefy and not decay, caryatid. If you are splashing green I think this card is the biggest boon this deck gets from the color. I'm not a fan of des. demon but caryatid into turn 3 demon is an absurd clock, it accels this decks mana, and it helps against red blitz as a blocker they can't burn and that is one of the deck's only real bad matchups. Though deadbridge chant would be pretty fun to try out.
In B(g), we can add 3-4 Abrupt Decay and 2 Golgari Charm, not only without diluting a key part of what the deck does (kill creatures), but enhancing it (destroy non-permanents). What is Caryatid replacing that does not dilute the deck? Where are 3 Caryatid in hand a good thing? Three of almost anything else in hand, except maybe Asphodel, is good.
Also, Caryatid needs Green mana and a turn in play before it comes online, slowing the deck down in most cases. Instant speed removal only needs the single G.
I love Caryatid, but I don't see ramp as being all that advantageous compared to the downside once you start looking at cards you would remove (probably 2 Pack Rat, but then 2 of what else?)
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Side Board is:
As for the matchups i played
1st Round: Mono blue devotion- Game one i mulled down to 5 as i didnt see lands in first 2 hands, and kept a not so good hand, but a hand i thought would be better then going down to 4. He basically got Thassa out with the devotion and steam rolled me. Game 2 what it came down to was him having 2 Bident of Thassa's out and Owls, and him playing master the waves, i them proceeded to board wipe with golgari charm and then just beat him down with Demons, and dropping out Gray Merchants. Game 3 He had a very similar hand as his first one, but this time i had a good hand. Basically he did the first 2 turns that mono blue does, turn 1 cloud fin turn 2 tidebinder turn 3 thassa, and then had Spectre in hand, what happened diffrently this game is i had Fade into Antiquity and basically won off that and dropping out Pack Rat and ran him over with the rat squad and gray merchants.
Round 2: Esper Control- Game 1 i just ran him over with dudes he board wiped i whipd then just won basically. Game 2 i sided in pithing needle, Duress, and Eerebos knowing he would be putting in Bloodbarons, and to stop Sphinxs Revs heal. I just Durresd and thought seized him out of the game, he played blood baron i played Erebos and just beat him down with Demons and such.
Round 3: G/W Aggro more of the tokeny one, basically like the one that won the star city. Game 1 he just beat me straight up. Rootborn Defense won that game for him. Game 2 he had me on the ropes most the game got me down to 5 health before i dropped a turn 6 gray merchant, then turn 7 merchant. Then i beat him down with those. Game 3 Nuts hand for me turn 1 thought seize turn 2 pack rat. Turn 3 Lifebane turn 4 lifebane turn 5 gray merchant. WIN.
Round 4: U/W Control- I was against one of my friends who i test with alot, who is a very very solid player, best in the area that i play at, he basically taught me a lot of what i know now. We ended up drawing and splitting the prize pool, but then we played for the extra pack. Game 1 i just thought seize him out of the game and eneded up killing him with Erebos with him being online through 2 under world connections which he had detention sphered, but i just abrupt decay them. Game 2 was the best game of magic i think i have ever played, basically it went into top deck wars after i thought seize and durresed him out of the game. Then the fun part started where every draw was an answer for the others person play. He top decked elspeth to kill my demon, i top deck heros downfall to kill elspeth. He top deck Atherling, i top decked pithing needle. He drew Detention sphere for my Pithing needle, i drew abrupt decay. Then after that i got under world connections out, and that won me the game.
After playing in this tournament i dont think that i would make any changes, especially for where i play at. If i decide to go to a bigger tournament i may make some changes on what the big decks are, but they wouldnt be big at all. Maybe add another abrupt decay, but 3 felt like the perfect about, i saw them when i needed them. Green was def the best color to splash for brings what u need for the board, and helps alot against other whip decks i decided like an hour before the tourny started to add the green in. Me and my friends have a gauntlet going, so i am going to be testing against all the popular decks, and other ones.
Man they would be handsome.
Naya Mid Rang
No. Reaper is the definition of a slow beater. It rarely "wins" you games, save over long term card quality. It isn't a bad card to have 1 or 2 of. But Demon "wins" games by itself.
One of them is a nuisance. The other is a threat that needs to be dealt with immediately.
Exactly this. I was at first a little reluctant about using the Demon, but seeing his power in an actual game helped to convince me. My opponent wasn’t running an all–out aggro deck, so saccing his own creatures to tap out my Demon was a glorious bit of attrition.
I am testing my deck with 4 lifebanes and 4 specters, no demons. You are absolutely right that demon can win you games. His clock is second to none for 4 mana. Problem is, in most situations his card advantage... is really a negative and can cost you the game. Where as both lifebane and specter CAN be positive card advantage. Also, they are whiped back much better than DD.
Anyone else gone this route? The only thing I dislike is it takes a lot longer to kill someone with those other two creatures, thus giving your opponent longer to find an out.
The Reaper isn't "bad." It is slow. It is barely a threat. You have to hold mana back to protect it, and it has no evasion. The main reason anybody plays it is because of the scry and regen, which are both slow.
It is much harder to kill than Demon. But it isn't as scary. Playing 4 Reapers is, simply put, a big mistake.
In order from best to worst I'd rank them Demon-->Erebos-->Reaper. That being said, there is a case for having 1 or 2 Reapers in your maindeck. If you're splashing green I think a split of 3/1/2 or 4/1/1 is appropriate with regards to Demon/Erebos/Reaper.