Gr Devotion is probably the best deck in the format.
On what basis?
He's probably saying based on the Grand Prix Los Angeles, but I don't personally think that one tournament makes the deck top tier. It is what I personally played (a different version), but I felt like it was a bit weak, probably close to Tier 1. I would hardly call it the best deck in the format.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
With two Standard GP's out of the way, I think we're due for a refresh pretty soon.
GP Los Angeles Top 8:
1 GR Monsters
2 RDW
4 Abzan
1 Mardu Midrange
GP Stocholm Top 8:
1 Abzan
2 BG Constellation
2 Jeskai Aggro
1 Temur Aggro/Midrange
1 Sidisi
1 RDW
SCG Minneapolis Top 8:
2 Jeskai
1 UW Control
2 Abzan
1 GR Monsters
1 Mardu Midrange
1 Temur Monsters
TCG MaxPoint:
3 Mardu Midrange
2 Abzan
1 GR (Caleb Durward's version)
1 Temur Monsters
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
So what I'm seeing is: Proven: Jeskai Aggro, Abzan, Mardu Midrange, RDW Established: BG Constellation, GR/x Monsters, Temur, Ascendancy, Sidisi, UB Control, G/x Devotion SDC: R/W Aggro, Everything Else
UB Control and G/x Devotion could go to Deck Creation, but I prefer to have more decks in Proven/Established rather than cramming everything into SDC. There's not much point in having the subforums if they only have 2-3 threads in them.
With no sub-folders in either Competitive or Established, is there much reason to keep them separate? Couldn't they be merged into one subgroup, thus obviating the need to move threads back and forth?
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"Because we cannot prevent draws in paper Magic we allow IDs. If we could prevent draws we would not have IDs in paper Magic. " Scott Larabee.
I'm not so sure UB Control should be ruled out just yet, it's getting less play than the other decks and hasn't quite figured out what variant is better but if you look at the MTGO numbers it has been Top 8 several times recently (last month or so) and definitely is established in both offline and online metas. I think part of its slip is simply that it's not being run by anyone who's not comfortable with it. It's a hard deck to pilot without a lot of practice. Also I'd suggest UW Heroic for the Established group, it's seeing a lot of play in the smaller venues (States, GPTs, etc)
Also I'd suggest UW Heroic for the Established group, it's seeing a lot of play in the smaller venues (States, GPTs, etc)
Just posted about this in another thread, but while it may not have a huge amount of results 'yet', it's a very powerful deck with amazing matchups overall. It's worst matchups are mardu and then jeskai second, but they aren't unwinnable either.
It might take another big standard tournament before people wake up and take notice of the deck, but it's popular online and starting to dominate IQs (I personally won an elite this last weekend with it, 15% of the field was U/W heroic, 3 made top 8 and 2 made top 4, including me) at least. Tom Ross top 4'd with it, but that's the first big finish it's put up so far.
I can understand it not being in established just yet, not enough results, but was really surprised there was no thread about it at all here. I feel like the other 'flavors' are valid as well, with W/R being more explosive for less consistency, but there's also room to explore W/G or even W/U/r potentially.
Making the following moves since competitive hasn't been updated in 2 months.
1. Abzan Reanimator to est.
2. RDW from proven to est.
3. Sultai Delve from est to proven.
4. Mono-Green Devotion from est to SDC.
5. UWx Heroic to est.
Couple of notes:
-- I'd like for there to be a concentrated Rw Aggro thread but thoughts and threads tend to be scattered. No regular users seem to be exploring the archetype. It could probably be in established but I don't want to prioritize a thread -- and there hasn't been a consistently used thread in standard.
-- I wanted to move UB Control to SDC but haven't found myself pulling the trigger since it'll show up in IQ top8s (there's always one dedicated control player in the shop). Thoughts on moving this?
UB control is definitely established in the metagame. Rw aggro is questionable, and I don't see it as big enough to distinguish from RDW and/or Jeskai tokens.
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Current Awesome Deck: UWAll-In GiftsWU Consistent, Resiliant, and way overpowered, making multiple 4/4s per turn.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWUFree Stuff MidrangeUWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
Well, I made T8 of a local PPTQ with R/w Aggro a week and a half ago, and lost in the quarterfinals to UB Control. I think they're both legitimate, playable decks and they are showing up here and there, though neither is hugely popular. Sam Black played R/W Tokens at the Invitational and made T8. A more red-heavy version finished second at the Open, and UB Control made T16 there. Both have been showing up in Dailies.
These look like the only two archetypes really "on the bubble" -- anyone see any others? I'd be fine with moving both into Established. I think Established should be fairly inclusive.
I think Abzan Whip is borderline proven. A lot of pros have picked it up and done well with it recently. I'd say it's about 50/50 with Sidisi Whip decks as far as which one gets the nod.
What do you guys think of making this the Rw Aggro Official thread and moving it to established (edit: Let's leave it to official -- the meta will change in a month anyhow)? The primer is well done but it doesn't seem to have a substantial amount of posts.
The deck is very consistent (at least, when I played it) and has put up numbers. There are also a number of pros putting work into developing the deck which would indicate that it has top tier potential.
The biggest detraction from Rw Aggro is that MTGS users don't seem to be as interested in this deck as say, (insert popular t2 deck here). I can't really advocate for putting a thread in established only to have 0 people talk about the deck.
Otherwise, Rw Aggro has been doing well since GP San Antonio.
I've had pretty consistent results with it but I haven't been playing a ton in general lately. I'll probably post more about it in January, especially if I get motivated to do more MTGO testing in the near future. I haven't seen a ton of other users with heavy interest in it though.
I'd say it's probably time for an update... the Proven forum should probably be:
Abzan Midrange/Aggro
Jeskai Tokens
Mardu Midrange
UB Control
Jeskai Tempo is not turning up big results anymore and is being played a lot less.
Jeskai Tokens got co-opted into the Jeskai Tempo thread.
UB spiked a GP but so did GR monsters and that was never a proven archetype. UB Control wasn't out in numbers as, say, Abzan midrange/aggro.
I'll update the proven/established the weekend after SCG Regionals (the weekend of PT FRF -- which is modern). We'll have had an SCG Open and the Regionals results to pull from. I'll run it by this thread beforehand, of course.
I actually tried starting a thread about Abzan Aggro and had it closed because of the thread I already started about Abzan Midrange.
Upon reflection, however, I support keeping the Abzan decks all together. The Abzan decks exist on a spectrum unique to themselves, and are very fluid with regards to their parts. Having a single point to discuss variations on the theme "how to kill people with Siege Rhino" seems most effective.
Regionals results are in. Lots of Top 8s to comb. If you're interested, you can take a look here -- the lists are located on the right sidebar if you scroll down.
Here's the distribution I expect going into GP Memphis this weekend, based on a combination of popularity and positioning in the metagame:
While, his categorization is very good, it's also speculative.
This weekend, I'm looking at Gx Devotion. If it does well (puts multiple copies into the top 8 of the Open or the GP), it's going back up to established.
Ok, I derped and totally forgot that Sultai control won this weekend. I think given it's finishes and popularity on the circuit warrants a spot in established. I'll make these moves:
Rw Aggro to proven.
Abzan Reanimator to SDC.
Sultai control to est.
If somebody wants to sit down and make an Abzan control thread, I would not be against it. The Abzan thread currently looks to be mostly Abzan aggro/midrange. However, I think riliss summed up the Abzan thread nicely in a prior post.
On what basis?
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
He's probably saying based on the Grand Prix Los Angeles, but I don't personally think that one tournament makes the deck top tier. It is what I personally played (a different version), but I felt like it was a bit weak, probably close to Tier 1. I would hardly call it the best deck in the format.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)GP Los Angeles Top 8:
1 GR Monsters
2 RDW
4 Abzan
1 Mardu Midrange
GP Stocholm Top 8:
1 Abzan
2 BG Constellation
2 Jeskai Aggro
1 Temur Aggro/Midrange
1 Sidisi
1 RDW
SCG Minneapolis Top 8:
2 Jeskai
1 UW Control
2 Abzan
1 GR Monsters
1 Mardu Midrange
1 Temur Monsters
TCG MaxPoint:
3 Mardu Midrange
2 Abzan
1 GR (Caleb Durward's version)
1 Temur Monsters
1 Jeskai Ascendancy
So what I'm seeing is:
Proven: Jeskai Aggro, Abzan, Mardu Midrange, RDW
Established: BG Constellation, GR/x Monsters, Temur, Ascendancy, Sidisi, UB Control, G/x Devotion
SDC: R/W Aggro, Everything Else
UB Control and G/x Devotion could go to Deck Creation, but I prefer to have more decks in Proven/Established rather than cramming everything into SDC. There's not much point in having the subforums if they only have 2-3 threads in them.
Thoughts?
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Just posted about this in another thread, but while it may not have a huge amount of results 'yet', it's a very powerful deck with amazing matchups overall. It's worst matchups are mardu and then jeskai second, but they aren't unwinnable either.
It might take another big standard tournament before people wake up and take notice of the deck, but it's popular online and starting to dominate IQs (I personally won an elite this last weekend with it, 15% of the field was U/W heroic, 3 made top 8 and 2 made top 4, including me) at least. Tom Ross top 4'd with it, but that's the first big finish it's put up so far.
I can understand it not being in established just yet, not enough results, but was really surprised there was no thread about it at all here. I feel like the other 'flavors' are valid as well, with W/R being more explosive for less consistency, but there's also room to explore W/G or even W/U/r potentially.
1. Abzan Reanimator to est.
2. RDW from proven to est.
3. Sultai Delve from est to proven.
4. Mono-Green Devotion from est to SDC.
5. UWx Heroic to est.
Couple of notes:
-- I'd like for there to be a concentrated Rw Aggro thread but thoughts and threads tend to be scattered. No regular users seem to be exploring the archetype. It could probably be in established but I don't want to prioritize a thread -- and there hasn't been a consistently used thread in standard.
-- I wanted to move UB Control to SDC but haven't found myself pulling the trigger since it'll show up in IQ top8s (there's always one dedicated control player in the shop). Thoughts on moving this?
UB control is definitely established in the metagame. Rw aggro is questionable, and I don't see it as big enough to distinguish from RDW and/or Jeskai tokens.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
These look like the only two archetypes really "on the bubble" -- anyone see any others? I'd be fine with moving both into Established. I think Established should be fairly inclusive.
(246-174-26)
and moving it to established(edit: Let's leave it to official -- the meta will change in a month anyhow)? The primer is well done but it doesn't seem to have a substantial amount of posts.The deck is very consistent (at least, when I played it) and has put up numbers. There are also a number of pros putting work into developing the deck which would indicate that it has top tier potential.
The biggest detraction from Rw Aggro is that MTGS users don't seem to be as interested in this deck as say, (insert popular t2 deck here). I can't really advocate for putting a thread in established only to have 0 people talk about the deck.
Otherwise, Rw Aggro has been doing well since GP San Antonio.
Abzan Midrange/Aggro
Jeskai Tokens
Mardu Midrange
UB Control
Jeskai Tempo is not turning up big results anymore and is being played a lot less.
Jeskai Tokens got co-opted into the Jeskai Tempo thread.
UB spiked a GP but so did GR monsters and that was never a proven archetype. UB Control wasn't out in numbers as, say, Abzan midrange/aggro.
I'll update the proven/established the weekend after SCG Regionals (the weekend of PT FRF -- which is modern). We'll have had an SCG Open and the Regionals results to pull from. I'll run it by this thread beforehand, of course.
Upon reflection, however, I support keeping the Abzan decks all together. The Abzan decks exist on a spectrum unique to themselves, and are very fluid with regards to their parts. Having a single point to discuss variations on the theme "how to kill people with Siege Rhino" seems most effective.
In short, I was wrong.
GWU Bant Manifest - The Future Is Here. Or it will be at the end of turn. GWU
I would propose that:
R/W Aggro gets moved to Established.
Jeskai Ascendancy Combo gets moved to Standard Deck Creation.
Edit: *snip*
With no other changes.
Let me know what you guys think.
-- Lugger
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12374
While, his categorization is very good, it's also speculative.
This weekend, I'm looking at Gx Devotion. If it does well (puts multiple copies into the top 8 of the Open or the GP), it's going back up to established.
The cards unique to Control: Courser, End Hostilities, Read the Bones, Ugin, Utter End.
The cards unique to aggro: Fleecemane, Anafenza, Rakshasa, Wingmate, Valourous Stance. Also Elspeth is a sideboard-only card.
Of course there's also a middle ground that takes some cards from each.
GB Electric Dreams BG Deal 20 in one shot, or discard their hand?
GWU Free Stuff Midrange UWG Slowly bury the opponent with more threats and answers than they can handle.
My greatest hits:
GURFate Reforged Temur Ascendancy COMBORUG
GUDragons of Tarkir Whisperwood Forever UG
Rw Aggro to proven.
Abzan Reanimator to SDC.
Sultai control to est.
If somebody wants to sit down and make an Abzan control thread, I would not be against it. The Abzan thread currently looks to be mostly Abzan aggro/midrange. However, I think riliss summed up the Abzan thread nicely in a prior post.