I'm playing Jund Aggro at FNM tonight. I can't decide between playing Falkenrath Aristocrat or Hellrider MD. I'm leaning toward the Aristocrat because it flies over Thragtusk and doesn't get wiped out by Ultimate Price but Hellrider is also just as deadly for it's own reasons. Which matchups is each card great at?
Falkenrath Aristocrat I find to be better than Hellrider in any R/x deck utilizing Black. Could also go with a split, or 4-of of each.
Aristo dodges removal/sweepers as long as you have another creature on board, but can beat face without one. Rider is only great with other creatures on board and with the amount of sweepers in standard he usually swings once and that's it. Also, Aristo flies over Boros Reckoner.
I'm already using Flinthoof Boar (it's too awesome to not play) and I'm trying to avoid creatures with less than 1 toughness. I'll be honest I've been considering 1-2 Skarrg Guildmage MD because there's not much instant-speed removal that deals with the 4/4 lands it makes and it can make everything else trample over spirit tokens. Thanks for your advice
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I kind of like gyre sage as the backup option to boar when casting BTE. Flunkies and muckwader just seem sub par. Sage gets just as big as either, doesn't have the flunkie drawback, can actually roadblock ash zealots and cacklers after an evolve which neither flunkie or muckwader can really (can even trade 1 for 1 with reckoner after 2), and while it doesn't play as well with E1 it powers out turn 3 aristocrats with BTE. Personally I cut the flunkies from Ari's list along with cackler (if I am taking damage from land turn 1 against faster decks I want it to be for a bomb like E1 or else it's almost not worth it) for 4 gyre sage 2 thundermaw (hate running aristocrat into souls) and 2 zealous conscripts (combined with aristocrat completely destroy any creature we have trouble with, especially thrag - 4 for 1?). Maybe not the same deck anymore but it is fun to play.
edit - looks like I also took out 2 removal spells for 2 land and a ghor-clan for a 4th dreg mangler so mine probably plays quite a bit slower with more inevitability with the ramp option
edit 2 - did some testing and my list definitely outclasses and runs over agro but it seems to play right into jund midrange. I think the trick here is to find a faster middle ground that can still get under midrange and spit out more quick threats than they can deal with rather than trying to interact with them mid game when they have all the advantages there. If you want to play BTE and gyre I think something like Froehlichs list (naya with fun reckoner interactions / overloaded mizzium for midgame) is simply a better shell for it. I'm starting to see the wisdom in some of the pros decisions. Ah well back to the drawing board. As for the initial question I can see the appeal in muckwader. The regen kind of fits with the anti-wrath theme and not having the buddy clause helps against jund midrange when they are trying to stall through 1 for 1 removal until they can get online. Not being able to attack into 2/2s hurts quite a bit though (most noticeably ash, BTE, cartel and huntmaster) and with all the haste we have it isn't that hard to find a buddy.
edit c - just because I hate playing flunkies I think I'm going to try to steal that weird madcap + noble tech from the gruul thread and see if it works here as a target for BTE (-4 cackler -4 flunkie +4 noble +4 madcap) but that of course raises the cascade of questions like if we aren't doubling up on turn 2 evolve triggers isn't geist better than emissary and can 22 lands support GG turn 2 and if we are playing geist over BTE does hellrider become better than aristocrat and if I play geist I probably can't play my weird olivia + golgari charm in the side.
I don't really like the emissary in jund aggro.
Nearly everything has haste yet anyway, I play strangleroot geists and flinthoof boars, a playset of each.
In my experience those + Dreg mangler run the deck, you'll always have at least one of those out, even greater when rancored. I see to many scenarios where BTE will just not be that good, since it relies on having another 2 drop in hand to be competitive.
Also I prefer Aristocrat over Hellrider for named reasons. I play 4 Aristocrats, 3 Hellrider and 2 Ghor-Clan Rampager (only 2 of those because with the other 4 drops my hands are getting clogged to often, + rancor really makes ghor-clan a win-more often imo).
I agree that lightning mauler is kind of a waste (like you said the haste is redundant for just about everything other than BTE) but that doesn't mean you can't play emissary. Emissary is great at developing board control and can build E1 up to being able to survive removal as early as turn 2. I don't think you can go wrong with either strangleroot or BTE. As far as ghor-clan goes I think it fills the same role as rancor in this deck only it's more aggressive and can clear out blockers.
just so you know, there is a pretty active Jund Aggro thread on the Jund Midrange board. I would recommend you check there for more information/help with this deck.
Never found anything better than flunkies to pair with BTE. Aristocrat works better with BTE, hellrider works better with strangleroot. You can definitely go with a split at the 4 drop but playing both BTE and strangleroot doesn't seem to work.
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Also I'm looking for a 2 drop creature that can be cast with Burning-Tree Emissary. I'm thinking between Mogg Flunkies or Crimson Muckwader. Any help and suggestions are appreciated.
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Aristo dodges removal/sweepers as long as you have another creature on board, but can beat face without one. Rider is only great with other creatures on board and with the amount of sweepers in standard he usually swings once and that's it. Also, Aristo flies over Boros Reckoner.
As for the two-drops: Flinthoof Boar, Gore-house Chainwalker, Crimson Muckwader, Skarrg Guildmage (for utility), and Lightning Mauler. There are better options than Flunkies since they can't do anything solo.
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I'm already using Flinthoof Boar (it's too awesome to not play) and I'm trying to avoid creatures with less than 1 toughness. I'll be honest I've been considering 1-2 Skarrg Guildmage MD because there's not much instant-speed removal that deals with the 4/4 lands it makes and it can make everything else trample over spirit tokens. Thanks for your advice
"You are now the second-to-last troll!"
- Lotleth Troll, to Thrun.
BRG Jund BRG
Modern
GW Auras GW
RGB Reanimator RGB
EDH
GW Trostani & Friends GW
edit - looks like I also took out 2 removal spells for 2 land and a ghor-clan for a 4th dreg mangler so mine probably plays quite a bit slower with more inevitability with the ramp option
edit 2 - did some testing and my list definitely outclasses and runs over agro but it seems to play right into jund midrange. I think the trick here is to find a faster middle ground that can still get under midrange and spit out more quick threats than they can deal with rather than trying to interact with them mid game when they have all the advantages there. If you want to play BTE and gyre I think something like Froehlichs list (naya with fun reckoner interactions / overloaded mizzium for midgame) is simply a better shell for it. I'm starting to see the wisdom in some of the pros decisions. Ah well back to the drawing board. As for the initial question I can see the appeal in muckwader. The regen kind of fits with the anti-wrath theme and not having the buddy clause helps against jund midrange when they are trying to stall through 1 for 1 removal until they can get online. Not being able to attack into 2/2s hurts quite a bit though (most noticeably ash, BTE, cartel and huntmaster) and with all the haste we have it isn't that hard to find a buddy.
edit c - just because I hate playing flunkies I think I'm going to try to steal that weird madcap + noble tech from the gruul thread and see if it works here as a target for BTE (-4 cackler -4 flunkie +4 noble +4 madcap) but that of course raises the cascade of questions like if we aren't doubling up on turn 2 evolve triggers isn't geist better than emissary and can 22 lands support GG turn 2 and if we are playing geist over BTE does hellrider become better than aristocrat and if I play geist I probably can't play my weird olivia + golgari charm in the side.
I agree that lightning mauler is kind of a waste (like you said the haste is redundant for just about everything other than BTE) but that doesn't mean you can't play emissary. Emissary is great at developing board control and can build E1 up to being able to survive removal as early as turn 2. I don't think you can go wrong with either strangleroot or BTE. As far as ghor-clan goes I think it fills the same role as rancor in this deck only it's more aggressive and can clear out blockers.