When this card was first spoiled, it got a lot of flak and it seemed like the popular opinion was that it was bad. Nevertheless, it has held decent value, and it certainly saw play this past weekend. So, is it actually good enough?
She's definitely good enough. Referring to my own post at market street café:
1 more toughness is already a big plus. Really, you're much rather attacking at 3/3 Beast (and there are LOTS of 2/2 and 3/3 tokens out there) tokens with a 3/4 Sage than a 3/3 Experiment One. And interestingly, Gyre Sage is actually a faster evolver than Experiment One, in a way. You get to play more creatures in one turn because of the mana-acceleration which in return evolves your creatures faster. Obviously nothing stops you from playing Gyre Sage and Experiment in the same deck. (for instance, I play a Naya beatdown deck which plays both), except the manabase. the Naya beatdown deck run 0 1-drops, and I can imagine mana is the biggest reason for that (you don't want to play any forests because of Boros Reckoner)
T2 Gyre Sage, T3 BTE + Flinthoof Boar + Loxodon Smiter is a very powerful line of play. of course that's the most optimal scenario, but there are many, many other explosive starts.
EDIT: And really, the acceleration does matter. Overloaded Mizzium Mortars, Aurelia, Thundermaw, they're always gonna be a lot better if you can play them one turn earlier, especially in a deck that doesn't want to run Farseek.
I have to admit I was one of those people who said Gyre Sage isn't good enough. Boy was I wrong
Been playing this card to great effect in junk midrange. Accelerates into Obzedat which in turn makes it a 5/6 over a few turns. Also, turn 5 Angel of Serenity isn't too shabby either. Sure you can do the same with a pair of mana dorks, but I'd rather a 4/5 and a 5/6 over two 1/1s and a 5/6s.
Accelerating into a card with only 1 generic manacost?
- Hiss.
Your point? Green can be used for that one generic mana cost. When all your green producing lands also produce white or black, this comes up more often than not. Not sure if you've played any games with post-GTC mana bases or not, but going 1G->1GW - 1WWBB- 4WWWW is the norm, not the exception.
It's basically a less efficient mana tapper and experiment one combined to take up only 1 card slot in your deck.
I especially like the interaction with drawing one late and then doing the resto blink thragtusk play so it evolves from the angel, then the token, then the tusk returning to become an immediate 4/5, which is considerably more relevant than drawing a 1/1 avacyn's pilgrim or arbor elf at that stage in the game.
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Gyre Sage gives you options. What do Magic players love? Options. This card is going to be hot until someone figures out a good tempo deck, a la Delver.
its a card thats better than it looks. this is what I said in the Gatecrash review I posted a couple of weeks ago
Gyre Sage: Fringe
- This is not a mana dork of any kind. Its a grow creature, like Quirion Dryad. This provides a nice side benefit of helping you cast extra (or bigger) spells while its growing, but at some point the idea is to start swinging with a very big Gyre Sage. It can also be enhanced further with stuff like Gavony Township, Mikaeus the Lunarch, and Travel Plans, all of which benefit both sides (pumping it up bigger, AND being a good way to spend the extra mana it provides). The synergy is present and its role seems clear enough. Is that actually a good strategy though? Don't know. Possibly its not good at all. There's also, of course, the fairly serious problem that Gyre Sage is a miserably bad top deck later in the game. It really has to come down on turn 2 to be useful. These limitations might prevent Gyre Sage from ever seeing serious play, but it has potential.
I called it Fringe but that was probably not correct. I'd say a more accurate placement for it would be as a Role Player card that offers an unusually good 2 drop for any creature heavy deck. If your plan is to cast creatures on turns 2, 3, and 4 of the game then Gyre Sage is probably the best 2 drop available for that plan.
Besides that I think my review was pretty accurate. Its definitely a grow creature first and foremost, and the mana ability is secondary (but a nice bonus when it works). We've seen this card played in RG decks so far, rather than WG decks, but I think it will start appearing in alot of different creature based decks and will be a pretty heavily played card this season. Its also true that it is a miserably bad late game top deck, so I think some people who are very enthusiastic about the card now (fresh and new!) will loose some of that enthusiasm as they play with it a bit more and learn about its downsides.
its a card thats better than it looks. this is what I said in the Gatecrash review I posted a couple of weeks ago
I called it Fringe but that was probably not correct. I'd say a more accurate placement for it would be as a Role Player card that offers an unusually good 2 drop for any creature heavy deck. If your plan is to cast creatures on turns 2, 3, and 4 of the game then Gyre Sage is probably the best 2 drop available for that plan.
Besides that I think my review was pretty accurate. Its definitely a grow creature first and foremost, and the mana ability is secondary (but a nice bonus when it works). We've seen this card played in RG decks so far, rather than WG decks, but I think it will start appearing in alot of different creature based decks and will be a pretty heavily played card this season. Its also true that it is a miserably bad late game top deck, so I think some people who are very enthusiastic about the card now (fresh and new!) will loose some of that enthusiasm as they play with it a bit more and learn about its downsides.
A lot of cards are bad late game...not all cards are good and versatile early and mid-game however...which is what makes this card so solid. I don't think it's a coincidence either that the Saito Naya list that made it the farthest used Gyre Sages instead of mana dorks (which Kibler's list included, though Kibler had a really good list, and seemed to do well with it regardless).
In addition, let's keep this card in context. Maybe it'll work with in other lists, but there's a reason it was put in a deck that runs 3-4 Domri Rades; it's a mana generator of sorts...but it shines when it allows you make favorable trades to get your real beaters through with Rade's second ability.
Domri Rade seems a lot better than people anticipated (in fact I think it was you I had this discussion with), though it still only really fits into one archetype for now.
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Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Domri was really only designed for one archetype anyway; RGx midrange creature-heavy lists. It just so happens that we're looking at a meta where that heavily favors lists that go that way.
The versatility is really great here. The topdeck problem is still a thing, especially as decks with Domri tend not to run any Garruks, which help make this a better topdeck. From my experience, a lot of the decks that run evolvers like this are naturally hit or miss, depending on the opening hand; it's harder than you'd think to come back from a game where you start slowly, but it feels effortless to stomp aggro when you curve out well.
The main reason it got flak is because people only looked at it as a "mana creature" when in fact it's a 2/3 or a 3/4 for 1G that can also tap for mana if you want (turn 4 overloaded mortars and the like).
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I am playing a slight modification of Efro's Naya Deck on Modo all day.
Gyre Sage is amazing in this List! You just dont want more than 1 in your opening hand, because that is really really slow. Other than that, he exceeding all my expectations.
I have seen Gyre Sage, Burning-Tree Emmisary, and Restoration Angel lead into some really scary plays. It can be a very fast card in the right deck. I.E. Overloaded Mizzium Mortars or early Thragusks.
I was initially grumpy that I pulled 5 copies of this card (1 foil). I sort of relegated them to my EDH decks. But it looks like they might actually draw some interest in my trade binder.
Its awesome in Saito's brew's where ur going from one creature that evolves it to the next. For example, it would be awesome if it turned into a 4/5 tarmogoyf by turn 4. which it can do pretty reliably.
I'm going to start playing with saito's naya deck in a few weeks. so i'll see how the card is. Also, the extra mana that it produces seems like u can do alot with. once its evolved.
Otherwise, i don't think its that good of a card on its own.
All this conversation about elves makes me happy I love me some elves, but I apologize if this is a bit off topic, given the fact that people think she was initially underrated, do you think that if I was to plan to use her in a deck sometime in the near future, I should pick her up now? Do you think her price will jump?
All this conversation about elves makes me happy I love me some elves, but I apologize if this is a bit off topic, given the fact that people think she was initially underrated, do you think that if I was to plan to use her in a deck sometime in the near future, I should pick her up now? Do you think her price will jump?
(politely) This isn't the place for that talk (the mods are watching). Check out Market Street and they can help you with predictions. MOO (my own opinion, too funny of an acronym to let go), probably not. It is cute, but not a value card.
i found this card really good in a simic/evolve deck with increasing savagery, basically on turn 5 if you have access to 5 mana and your gyre sage has a counter on it already you can cast increasing savagery (on the sage) then flashback same turn on your elusive krasis
I love Gyre Sage, coolest thing I have done with it,
Had a 3/4 Gyre Sage and a Thragtusk on the board with a Resto Angel and a land in hand, I drew into another Sage, opponent had 3/3 Flinthoof, and 2 tapped Loxodon Smiters, I attacked with both of mine, knowing he wouldn't block the Thragtusk and since I had a Resto to blink my Thragtusk. Second main I played my other Sage. On their turn he attacked all in, it was a lethal amount, before I declared blockers I played the Angel and blinked my Thragtusk, which was 3 triggers for my second Sage, Resto, 3/3 Beast, then Thragtusk to put three counters on my sage. and blocked it all and cleared his board, and I still had two 4/5 Gyre Sage, two 3/3 Beast and a Resto. I won next turn.
I love Gyre Sage, coolest thing I have done with it,
Had a 3/4 Gyre Sage and a Thragtusk on the board with a Resto Angel and a land in hand, I drew into another Sage, opponent had 3/3 Flinthoof, and 2 tapped Loxodon Smiters, I attacked with both of mine, knowing he wouldn't block the Thragtusk and since I had a Resto to blink my Thragtusk. Second main I played my other Sage. On their turn he attacked all in, it was a lethal amount, before I declared blockers I played the Angel and blinked my Thragtusk, which was 3 triggers for my second Sage, Resto, 3/3 Beast, then Thragtusk to put three counters on my sage. and blocked it all and cleared his board, and I still had two 4/5 Gyre Sage, two 3/3 Beast and a Resto. I won next turn.
That's really cool, but...you could have done the same thing with Experiment One. Maybe also with Crocanura.
The question isn't whether any evolve creature can be useful. The question is whether Gyre Sage is better than the other evolve creatures in some way that makes it preferable to them. I don't think she is, if you're just using her as a beater. If you can make use of her mana acceleration that's another story. However, there's no sign that she's a good enough mana producer to warrant taking up a slot in a deck.
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That's really cool, but...you could have done the same thing with Experiment One. Maybe also with Crocanura.
The question isn't whether any evolve creature can be useful. The question is whether Gyre Sage is better than the other evolve creatures in some way that makes it preferable to them. I don't think she is, if you're just using her as a beater. If you can make use of her mana acceleration that's another story. However, there's no sign that she's a good enough mana producer to warrant taking up a slot in a deck.
Yes she is a better evolver then most, you fits nicely into the two slot as most bears would, if you curve from a t1 Deathrite t2 Sage into a t3 Smiter, then you can t4 thragtusk, and have a nice 3/4 that can help produce mana if you miss a land drop, or help you double cast spells from t4+, and it's always nice to have a powerful boardstate out early such as a 1/2, 3/4, 4/4 and a 5/3 all out by t4. (I play junk midrange and this happens a lot actually.) Gyre Sage even saw play in the Pro Tour this year so that must mean somthing...
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When this card was first spoiled, it got a lot of flak and it seemed like the popular opinion was that it was bad. Nevertheless, it has held decent value, and it certainly saw play this past weekend. So, is it actually good enough?
I have to admit I was one of those people who said Gyre Sage isn't good enough. Boy was I wrong
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It CAN make mana, but it was more or less being used as a superbear.
Because we care about facts.
Your point? Green can be used for that one generic mana cost. When all your green producing lands also produce white or black, this comes up more often than not. Not sure if you've played any games with post-GTC mana bases or not, but going 1G->1GW - 1WWBB- 4WWWW is the norm, not the exception.
I especially like the interaction with drawing one late and then doing the resto blink thragtusk play so it evolves from the angel, then the token, then the tusk returning to become an immediate 4/5, which is considerably more relevant than drawing a 1/1 avacyn's pilgrim or arbor elf at that stage in the game.
I called it Fringe but that was probably not correct. I'd say a more accurate placement for it would be as a Role Player card that offers an unusually good 2 drop for any creature heavy deck. If your plan is to cast creatures on turns 2, 3, and 4 of the game then Gyre Sage is probably the best 2 drop available for that plan.
Besides that I think my review was pretty accurate. Its definitely a grow creature first and foremost, and the mana ability is secondary (but a nice bonus when it works). We've seen this card played in RG decks so far, rather than WG decks, but I think it will start appearing in alot of different creature based decks and will be a pretty heavily played card this season. Its also true that it is a miserably bad late game top deck, so I think some people who are very enthusiastic about the card now (fresh and new!) will loose some of that enthusiasm as they play with it a bit more and learn about its downsides.
A lot of cards are bad late game...not all cards are good and versatile early and mid-game however...which is what makes this card so solid. I don't think it's a coincidence either that the Saito Naya list that made it the farthest used Gyre Sages instead of mana dorks (which Kibler's list included, though Kibler had a really good list, and seemed to do well with it regardless).
In addition, let's keep this card in context. Maybe it'll work with in other lists, but there's a reason it was put in a deck that runs 3-4 Domri Rades; it's a mana generator of sorts...but it shines when it allows you make favorable trades to get your real beaters through with Rade's second ability.
Domri Rade seems a lot better than people anticipated (in fact I think it was you I had this discussion with), though it still only really fits into one archetype for now.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
The versatility is really great here. The topdeck problem is still a thing, especially as decks with Domri tend not to run any Garruks, which help make this a better topdeck. From my experience, a lot of the decks that run evolvers like this are naturally hit or miss, depending on the opening hand; it's harder than you'd think to come back from a game where you start slowly, but it feels effortless to stomp aggro when you curve out well.
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B Devotion
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Modern:
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This super bear is awesome since its a growing super bear.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Gyre Sage is amazing in this List! You just dont want more than 1 in your opening hand, because that is really really slow. Other than that, he exceeding all my expectations.
I'm going to start playing with saito's naya deck in a few weeks. so i'll see how the card is. Also, the extra mana that it produces seems like u can do alot with. once its evolved.
Otherwise, i don't think its that good of a card on its own.
[Clan Flamingo]
(politely) This isn't the place for that talk (the mods are watching). Check out Market Street and they can help you with predictions. MOO (my own opinion, too funny of an acronym to let go), probably not. It is cute, but not a value card.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Had a 3/4 Gyre Sage and a Thragtusk on the board with a Resto Angel and a land in hand, I drew into another Sage, opponent had 3/3 Flinthoof, and 2 tapped Loxodon Smiters, I attacked with both of mine, knowing he wouldn't block the Thragtusk and since I had a Resto to blink my Thragtusk. Second main I played my other Sage. On their turn he attacked all in, it was a lethal amount, before I declared blockers I played the Angel and blinked my Thragtusk, which was 3 triggers for my second Sage, Resto, 3/3 Beast, then Thragtusk to put three counters on my sage. and blocked it all and cleared his board, and I still had two 4/5 Gyre Sage, two 3/3 Beast and a Resto. I won next turn.
UWUW ControlUW
That's really cool, but...you could have done the same thing with Experiment One. Maybe also with Crocanura.
The question isn't whether any evolve creature can be useful. The question is whether Gyre Sage is better than the other evolve creatures in some way that makes it preferable to them. I don't think she is, if you're just using her as a beater. If you can make use of her mana acceleration that's another story. However, there's no sign that she's a good enough mana producer to warrant taking up a slot in a deck.
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Yes she is a better evolver then most, you fits nicely into the two slot as most bears would, if you curve from a t1 Deathrite t2 Sage into a t3 Smiter, then you can t4 thragtusk, and have a nice 3/4 that can help produce mana if you miss a land drop, or help you double cast spells from t4+, and it's always nice to have a powerful boardstate out early such as a 1/2, 3/4, 4/4 and a 5/3 all out by t4. (I play junk midrange and this happens a lot actually.) Gyre Sage even saw play in the Pro Tour this year so that must mean somthing...
UWUW ControlUW