No it's not. It's a swing for 2 with lifelink. Whether or not your life changes has no impact on your opponent's life.
???
Do you NOT know what life swing is?
Life swing is the Net total change of life in a given event (turn, a summon, casting of a spell, ect). Upon entry into the battlefield, Obzedat makes them lose two and you gain two, therefore, the net change in life is 4, aka Life swing.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
No it's not. It's a swing for 2 with lifelink. Whether or not your life changes has no impact on your opponent's life.
You are not reading the card. When Obzedat comes into play, your opponent loses 2 life AND you gain 2 life. That results in a 4 life swing every single turn. It makes a huge difference, especially when they stare down a 5/5 every turn while having a very tough time to deal with it.
One of the most common instant removal cards in standard is Ultimate Price - and that doesn't do anything against Obzedat. You can't lock him down with Tamiyo or Dungeon Geists, you can't sweep him with something like Supreme Verdict and you can't burn him because he's out of range. He's exceptionally nimble for a 5/5, his biggest drawbacks are his mana cost and what deck he best fits in. I play him in my esper spirit deck and he's an absolute beast. Wins games by his own. The cards most people say deals with him are cards that aren't in anyone's decks - so I really am not as concerned with it.
No one should mistake him for Thragtusk but don't think he's not a playable beatstick either. I remember when everyone thought a 5/5 red flyer for 5 that had haste wasn't very good. "Unplayable but powerful" most people called it. Funny how that worked out.
You are not reading the card. When Obzedat comes into play, your opponent loses 2 life AND you gain 2 life. That results in a 4 life swing every single turn. It makes a huge difference, especially when they stare down a 5/5 every turn while having a very tough time to deal with it.
By that logic, Trostani swings considerably for every creature you put into play.
That is a terrible assertion that the gain 2 life makes any difference.
You cannot win through lifegain (not in standard anyways). And there was a reason that all the color life charms were newbie-bait in the core sets: to teach new players that gaining life is not as important as getting your opponent's down to 0.
I can understand now why everyone overrates this card to badly: they favor the relative gap in life over the absolute loss of life.
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Decks:
Modern: (P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R) UWU Fish UWU WB Disruption BW
Standard: WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR WWW Humans WWW
Commander: BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB GGG Thrun Tron GGG WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
By that logic, Trostani swings considerably for every creature you put into play.
That is a terrible assertion that the gain 2 life makes any difference.
You cannot win through lifegain (not in standard anyways). And there was a reason that all the color life charms were newbie-bait in the core sets: to teach new players that gaining life is not as important as getting your opponent's down to 0.
I can understand now why everyone overrates this card to badly: they favor the relative gap in life over the absolute loss of life.
wow you don't even know what your talking about.:o
By that logic, Trostani swings considerably for every creature you put into play.
That is a terrible assertion that the gain 2 life makes any difference.
You cannot win through lifegain (not in standard anyways). And there was a reason that all the color life charms were newbie-bait in the core sets: to teach new players that gaining life is not as important as getting your opponent's down to 0.
I can understand now why everyone overrates this card to badly: they favor the relative gap in life over the absolute loss of life.
Simple question, have you ever played with Obzedat and if so how many matches? I'd really like to know this before I assert if your comments are genuine. I've played with him since Gatecrash came out - and I can safely say he's won me countless games and is an absolute powerhouse. If you've played with him as much as I have and found different results, then I'd like to know so we can discuss further (deck/shell your using, why you're not having success, etc).
Oh - and I've been playing Magic since revised, you're "newbie-bait" comment (if directed at me) - is fairly inaccurate.
By that logic, Trostani swings considerably for every creature you put into play.
That is a terrible assertion that the gain 2 life makes any difference.
You cannot win through lifegain (not in standard anyways). And there was a reason that all the color life charms were newbie-bait in the core sets: to teach new players that gaining life is not as important as getting your opponent's down to 0.
I can understand now why everyone overrates this card to badly: they favor the relative gap in life over the absolute loss of life.
You don't win through life gain. You win WITH life gain. Offsetting the damage dealt to you. Think of it this way: Every time Ghost Dad pops in, he damages your opponent, and undoes the work his Ash Zealot did earlier. Or are you such a l33t-Pr0 that your life total is always 20?
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Simple question, have you ever played with Obzedat and if so how many matches? I'd really like to know this before I assert if your comments are genuine. I've played with him since Gatecrash came out - and I can safely say he's won me countless games and is an absolute powerhouse. If you've played with him as much as I have and found different results, then I'd like to know so we can discuss further (deck/shell your using, why you're not having success, etc).
Have I played with it? No. There are better cards to play with out there as a 5 drop and even though I'm playing Orzhov (I love the yin yang) I would never play this card just like I would never play Trostani in a Selesnya deck.
Oh - and I've been playing Magic since revised, you're "newbie-bait" comment (if directed at me) - is fairly inaccurate.
No, it was a column written by Mark Rosewater last year when someone asked "why do you print the lifegain charms when nobody plays them?" to which he replied (and I paraphrase) "So that new players who cling onto life learn that their life is a resource (referencing phyrexian mana) that lets them play cards and not the other way around".
Nothing personal.
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Decks:
Modern: (P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R) UWU Fish UWU WB Disruption BW
Standard: WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR WWW Humans WWW
Commander: BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB GGG Thrun Tron GGG WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Have I played with it? No. There are better cards to play with out there as a 5 drop and even though I'm playing Orzhov (I love the yin yang) I would never play this card just like I would never play Trostani in a Selesnya deck.
I'm a little confused by this... so, if it's a bad card - why would you be playing against it NUMEROUS times? Wouldn't players realize it's bad and immediately cut it from their deck? I doubt it being a 20 dollar mythic has anything to do with keeping a sub-par card in their deck, especially if you have a competitive play circle like most of us serious players. Why wouldn't these players just play Orzhov Charm or Tragic Slip if that's all it does?
Comparing this card to Trostani is absolutely ridiculous by the way. If you can't understand the power difference, I'm not sure how we can continue our conversation. It would seem you have some bias against it, which doesn't really matter to me personally I keep winning with it.
No, it was a column written by Mark Rosewater last year when someone asked "why do you print the lifegain charms when nobody plays them?" to which he replied (and I paraphrase) "So that new players who cling onto life learn that their life is a resource (referencing phyrexian mana) that lets them play cards and not the other way around".
You don't win through life gain. You win WITH life gain. Offsetting the damage dealt to you. Think of it this way: Every time Ghost Dad pops in, he damages your opponent, and undoes the work his Ash Zealot did earlier. Or are you such a l33t-Pr0 that your life total is always 20?
I'm guessing everyone does what I do and when people deal damage, I base my plays around how much I can take before it's game over. Is my life always at 20? Absolutely not. In fact most games I dominate I am well below 10. The reason for that is that the first 10 life you lose can be deemed inconsequential.
By that time you should either already be stabilizing or have stabilized. Thragtusk does an amazing job at that because it can 3-for-1 in all cases. Even if he didn't gain you life, he would still be good (granted not against aggro and rdw).
In your example, when people gain life, I don't see it as being undone but more of a new objective to reach in damage output. Usually my decks can reach them but if you play RDW for instance with no reach, essentially you are counting on dealing 20 damage static (which is why lifegain trumps RDW hard).
I'm digressing hard here so I'll stop.
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Decks:
Modern: (P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R) UWU Fish UWU WB Disruption BW
Standard: WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR WWW Humans WWW
Commander: BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB GGG Thrun Tron GGG WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Have I played with it? No. There are better cards to play with out there as a 5 drop and even though I'm playing Orzhov (I love the yin yang) I would never play this card just like I would never play Trostani in a Selesnya deck.
No, it was a column written by Mark Rosewater last year when someone asked "why do you print the lifegain charms when nobody plays them?" to which he replied (and I paraphrase) "So that new players who cling onto life learn that their life is a resource (referencing phyrexian mana) that lets them play cards and not the other way around".
Nothing personal.
wow I think your just trolling why are bashing the card when you have not play tested it
I stopped reading after this. Why oh why are you vehemently bashing Obzedat if you haven't tested him yourself? How can I take anything you've been saying seriously?
I'm a little confused by this... so, if it's a bad card - why would you be playing against it NUMEROUS times? Wouldn't players realize it's bad and immediately cut it from their deck? I doubt it being a 20 dollar mythic has anything to do with keeping a sub-par card in their deck, especially if you have a competitive play circle like most of us serious players. Why wouldn't these players just play Orzhov Charm or Tragic Slip if that's all it does?
That's the thing: this card is overhyped and overrated so everyone plays it. I played against serious decks that beat my deck once in a while but the Ghost Dad didn't have any play for more than a turn if he was even played.
Junk ramp is a deck that could possibly be big soon depending on how people play it and then this card has some hope to shine.
Most players don't build like I do, I follow a rigid ratio I made up years ago and it has always worked in my favour to have 12 removal spells all instants.
Comparing this card to Trostani is absolutely ridiculous by the way. If you can't understand the power difference, I'm not sure how we can continue our conversation. It would seem you have some bias against it, which doesn't really matter to me personally I keep winning with it.
I do understand the power difference, the point was that just because you have black and white doesn't mean you should instantly shove this card in the deck. This card is better than most because of it's sheer power but people give it way more credit than they should and that's what bothers me.
Do I have a bias? Sure! Just like I have a bias against Rakdos Charm and a bias for Boros Charm or Restoration Angel over Cloudshift. Why? Because I see the value it gives.
If you can make this card win, then kudos to you, you're a good deckbuilder. But if you have an easier way to get almost the same result, that way tends to be simply better.
Why do I dislike this card? Because it is too overcomplicated for nothing. When Restoration Angel/Thragtusk rotate out, don't get me wrong, this card will be absolute bonkers.
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Decks:
Modern: (P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R) UWU Fish UWU WB Disruption BW
Standard: WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR WWW Humans WWW
Commander: BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB GGG Thrun Tron GGG WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
I'm guessing everyone does what I do and when people deal damage, I base my plays around how much I can take before it's game over.
Exactly and OGC enables you to take more before the game is over while also pressuring your opponent into playing faster. I believe the best decks to utilize him will be those able to punish overextension against beats and grind down control decks.
I like him. I have yet to see his full impact in standard; B/W/u seems the likely choice. I look forward to his arrival with eager anticipation.
For what it's worth, Eddie Walker played Esper Spirits in Atlanta, went X-1 and top 8'ed with an Obzedat build.
This is what he had to say about it
<glowing review>.
It should be noted that the spirits deck gets Drogskol Captain, who basically eliminates every downside Obi actually has when they're both in play (It makes him beat Angel and Tusk in a fight, and makes him actually unkillable). It's some sweet synergy.
None of the spells you listed are actually seeing any serious play, validating the point that obi is indeed quite difficult to deal with,
Yeah... after 2 weeks post GTC with this meta still in its infancy, it's only a matter of time until they do. Tragic slip was big prior to RTR and Victim of night will definitely see play since it kills pretty much all the big guns. And yes Orzhov Charm has not seen any play since it just came out.
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Decks:
Modern: (P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R) UWU Fish UWU WB Disruption BW
Standard: WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR WWW Humans WWW
Commander: BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB GGG Thrun Tron GGG WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Zanet instantly lost all credibility once he admitted to not even playing the card. Seriously, if you don't play with the card, don't comment in it's section. You have no solid evidence, no playtesting whatsoever, and are trolling. It's already had some success and it's very hard to deal with.
Zanet, you actually play with urgent exorcism?! LOL. Really? Anyone in your playtesting environment uses that card? Seriously, just move on. This is embarrassing.
Zanet instantly lost all credibility once he admitted to not even playing the card. Seriously, if you don't play with the card, don't comment in it's section. You have no solid evidence, no playtesting whatsoever, and are trolling. It's already had some success and it's very hard to deal with.
Zanet, you actually play with urgent exorcism?! LOL. Really? Anyone in your playtesting environment uses that card? Seriously, just move on. This is embarrassing.
Yeah... I argue against the card, which means I play it...
And yes, seeing as my local Meta is filled with blind obedience, Bantchantments and OGC, a catch-all cards like Urgent Exorcism is pretty good.
So now why do you denigrate Urgent Exorcism but not OGC? You have no arguments to back your claim!
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Decks:
Modern: (P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R) UWU Fish UWU WB Disruption BW
Standard: WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR WWW Humans WWW
Commander: BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB GGG Thrun Tron GGG WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Can someone explain me this?
It's a 2 life difference without swinging per turn.
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
Its two damage plus two gained life which is an effective swing of four.
GW Aggro
EDH:
BUG Damia Landfall
RW [Primer] Brion Stoutarm
R Bosh's Bash
No it's not. It's a swing for 2 with lifelink. Whether or not your life changes has no impact on your opponent's life.
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
He said "4 life difference", are you really that dense? Opp goes down 2, you go up 2 = a change in life totals of 4.
???
Do you NOT know what life swing is?
Life swing is the Net total change of life in a given event (turn, a summon, casting of a spell, ect). Upon entry into the battlefield, Obzedat makes them lose two and you gain two, therefore, the net change in life is 4, aka Life swing.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
You are not reading the card. When Obzedat comes into play, your opponent loses 2 life AND you gain 2 life. That results in a 4 life swing every single turn. It makes a huge difference, especially when they stare down a 5/5 every turn while having a very tough time to deal with it.
One of the most common instant removal cards in standard is Ultimate Price - and that doesn't do anything against Obzedat. You can't lock him down with Tamiyo or Dungeon Geists, you can't sweep him with something like Supreme Verdict and you can't burn him because he's out of range. He's exceptionally nimble for a 5/5, his biggest drawbacks are his mana cost and what deck he best fits in. I play him in my esper spirit deck and he's an absolute beast. Wins games by his own. The cards most people say deals with him are cards that aren't in anyone's decks - so I really am not as concerned with it.
No one should mistake him for Thragtusk but don't think he's not a playable beatstick either. I remember when everyone thought a 5/5 red flyer for 5 that had haste wasn't very good. "Unplayable but powerful" most people called it. Funny how that worked out.
This guy doesn't know what he wants -
It's half offense and half defense. In a format thats all in one or the other.
By that logic, Trostani swings considerably for every creature you put into play.
That is a terrible assertion that the gain 2 life makes any difference.
You cannot win through lifegain (not in standard anyways). And there was a reason that all the color life charms were newbie-bait in the core sets: to teach new players that gaining life is not as important as getting your opponent's down to 0.
I can understand now why everyone overrates this card to badly: they favor the relative gap in life over the absolute loss of life.
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
Have you played with or against Obzedat? He can out race any other bomb in the format.
wow you don't even know what your talking about.:o
Simple question, have you ever played with Obzedat and if so how many matches? I'd really like to know this before I assert if your comments are genuine. I've played with him since Gatecrash came out - and I can safely say he's won me countless games and is an absolute powerhouse. If you've played with him as much as I have and found different results, then I'd like to know so we can discuss further (deck/shell your using, why you're not having success, etc).
Oh - and I've been playing Magic since revised, you're "newbie-bait" comment (if directed at me) - is fairly inaccurate.
You don't win through life gain. You win WITH life gain. Offsetting the damage dealt to you. Think of it this way: Every time Ghost Dad pops in, he damages your opponent, and undoes the work his Ash Zealot did earlier. Or are you such a l33t-Pr0 that your life total is always 20?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Have I played with it? No. There are better cards to play with out there as a 5 drop and even though I'm playing Orzhov (I love the yin yang) I would never play this card just like I would never play Trostani in a Selesnya deck.
On the other hand, I have played NUMEROUS times AGAINST it. And every time it's the same thing: Orzhov charm/Tragic Slip/Urgent Exorcism/Victim of Night it to death or chump and race it.
No, it was a column written by Mark Rosewater last year when someone asked "why do you print the lifegain charms when nobody plays them?" to which he replied (and I paraphrase) "So that new players who cling onto life learn that their life is a resource (referencing phyrexian mana) that lets them play cards and not the other way around".
Nothing personal.
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
I'm a little confused by this... so, if it's a bad card - why would you be playing against it NUMEROUS times? Wouldn't players realize it's bad and immediately cut it from their deck? I doubt it being a 20 dollar mythic has anything to do with keeping a sub-par card in their deck, especially if you have a competitive play circle like most of us serious players. Why wouldn't these players just play Orzhov Charm or Tragic Slip if that's all it does?
Comparing this card to Trostani is absolutely ridiculous by the way. If you can't understand the power difference, I'm not sure how we can continue our conversation. It would seem you have some bias against it, which doesn't really matter to me personally I keep winning with it.
Fair enough - I mis-interpreted so I apologize.
I'm guessing everyone does what I do and when people deal damage, I base my plays around how much I can take before it's game over. Is my life always at 20? Absolutely not. In fact most games I dominate I am well below 10. The reason for that is that the first 10 life you lose can be deemed inconsequential.
By that time you should either already be stabilizing or have stabilized. Thragtusk does an amazing job at that because it can 3-for-1 in all cases. Even if he didn't gain you life, he would still be good (granted not against aggro and rdw).
In your example, when people gain life, I don't see it as being undone but more of a new objective to reach in damage output. Usually my decks can reach them but if you play RDW for instance with no reach, essentially you are counting on dealing 20 damage static (which is why lifegain trumps RDW hard).
I'm digressing hard here so I'll stop.
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
wow I think your just trolling why are bashing the card when you have not play tested it
I stopped reading after this. Why oh why are you vehemently bashing Obzedat if you haven't tested him yourself? How can I take anything you've been saying seriously?
That's the thing: this card is overhyped and overrated so everyone plays it. I played against serious decks that beat my deck once in a while but the Ghost Dad didn't have any play for more than a turn if he was even played.
Junk ramp is a deck that could possibly be big soon depending on how people play it and then this card has some hope to shine.
Most players don't build like I do, I follow a rigid ratio I made up years ago and it has always worked in my favour to have 12 removal spells all instants.
I do understand the power difference, the point was that just because you have black and white doesn't mean you should instantly shove this card in the deck. This card is better than most because of it's sheer power but people give it way more credit than they should and that's what bothers me.
Do I have a bias? Sure! Just like I have a bias against Rakdos Charm and a bias for Boros Charm or Restoration Angel over Cloudshift. Why? Because I see the value it gives.
If you can make this card win, then kudos to you, you're a good deckbuilder. But if you have an easier way to get almost the same result, that way tends to be simply better.
Why do I dislike this card? Because it is too overcomplicated for nothing. When Restoration Angel/Thragtusk rotate out, don't get me wrong, this card will be absolute bonkers.
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
This is what he had to say about it
Followed by lots of
Of course, that's just one persons opinion, but he sure has a lot more experience than most people.
Exactly and OGC enables you to take more before the game is over while also pressuring your opponent into playing faster. I believe the best decks to utilize him will be those able to punish overextension against beats and grind down control decks.
I like him. I have yet to see his full impact in standard; B/W/u seems the likely choice. I look forward to his arrival with eager anticipation.
Seems like an exaggeration.
None of the spells you listed are actually seeing any serious play, validating the point that obi is indeed quite difficult to deal with.
It should be noted that the spirits deck gets Drogskol Captain, who basically eliminates every downside Obi actually has when they're both in play (It makes him beat Angel and Tusk in a fight, and makes him actually unkillable). It's some sweet synergy.
Yeah... after 2 weeks post GTC with this meta still in its infancy, it's only a matter of time until they do. Tragic slip was big prior to RTR and Victim of night will definitely see play since it kills pretty much all the big guns. And yes Orzhov Charm has not seen any play since it just came out.
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?
Zanet, you actually play with urgent exorcism?! LOL. Really? Anyone in your playtesting environment uses that card? Seriously, just move on. This is embarrassing.
No need for that tone, trolling warning issued.
Yeah... I argue against the card, which means I play it...
And yes, seeing as my local Meta is filled with blind obedience, Bantchantments and OGC, a catch-all cards like Urgent Exorcism is pretty good.
So now why do you denigrate Urgent Exorcism but not OGC? You have no arguments to back your claim!
(P/R)(P/G) Infect (P/G)(P/R)
UWU Fish UWU
WB Disruption BW
Standard:
WBR Junk Aristocrats WBR
WWW Humans WWW
Commander:
BBB Marrowgnawer and Friends BBB
GGG Thrun Tron GGG
WBR Kaalia of the Vast RBW
Why is desperate ravings a good card?