Mod Note: Credit for this Primer goes to Elder_MMHS. I don't currently have the ability to move posts around, so I just edited the old primer. I am working on getting the issue resolved, but this will have to do for now
I've written an updated Primer for you all to critique. I think it is mostly common knowledge for any regular U/W control players but good for anyone interested in an overview. For more in-depth content, I hope you guys could step up and write some excellent posts on specific match-ups, sideboard strategies, etc. that can be linked to this post.
Hopefully it's good enough and I will message a moderator to have it promoted to the first post of this thread.
Lastly, excuse the spelling of some words - I am Canadian.
U/W Control (aka Azorius Control, Blue-White Control)
Introduction
As of early Born of the Gods Standard, U/W Control is a Tier 1 deck archetype. While “slow” to setup, it consists of a very reliable mana base with a superior suite of virtually non-discriminatory answers in the form of removal and countermagic, some of the best card draw in the current Standard format and potent win conditions. In organized play, it boasts very favourable Game 1 match-ups against most top tier deck archetypes and has numerous proven variants, forcing its opponents to stay updated on the latest deck lists lest they be surprised by sideboard strategies involving creature beatdowns or splashed “tech” spells.
Despite these upsides, U/W Control has some obvious drawbacks. For one, its main deck strategy is generally quite linear and predictable. Because of its reactive nature, the deck can be difficult to play correctly versus multiple deck archetypes. Pilots must know which spells are worth answering immediately versus those that can be responded to on future turns. The nature of the deck also implies it is slow and requires numerous turns to achieve victory - a fast play pace is often necessary to avoid unintentional draws or outcomes due to round time limits.
Deck Lists
Typical Deck Lists as of late Theros Standard (pre-Born of the Gods):
This deck is biased towards fighting aggro decks and Mono Blue Devotion.
This deck is built to combat hand disruption by Mono Black Devotion with redundant card draw and essentially draw the deck contents indefinitely with Elixir of Immortality.
This deck is an example of a transformational sideboard for a post-board creature beatdown strategy versus aggro and Mono Blue and black-on-black removal to improve the Mono Black match-up.
The three different U/W dual lands provide the main foundation for the deck. The maximum number of Hallowed Fountain and Temple of Enlightenment are typically played, with some number of Azorius Guildgates and a generous helping of basic Plains and Islands.
Thanks to this fairly stable mana base, Mutavault can be run to provide additional win conditions (albeit slow and arduous) and pressure against opposing Planeswalkers, particularly after a board wipe. Most decks run 2-3.
Spells Azorius Charm - While not necessarily impactful, the versatile Azorius Charm is also seldomly a dead card in game 1, allowing the caster to cycle it, make a tempo play versus an attacking or blocking threat or help race by given his/her creatures Lifelink. While many decks run 3-4 copies, experimental variants are cutting this card altogether for more specific answers. Detention Sphere - This is a non-discriminate sorcery-speed removal spell that answers virtually all nonland permanents. Most decks run 4 copies. Dissolve - This is the de facto counter spell in the format. The incidental scrying also offers control players additional card selection. Most decks also run 4 copies. Elspeth, Sun’s Champion - The deck’s premier win condition from Theros. Elspeth’s +1 ability provides three 1/1 Soldier tokens as “chump blockers” or the basis for a swarm army. Her -3 ability acts as a conditional board wipe for large threats and her Ultimate ability is often the game winner in combination with the soldier token presence. Most decks run 1-3 copies. Jace, Architect of Thought - The versatile bridge between the early and late games, Jace provides excellent protection against aggro decks with his +1 ability and card advantage and selection with his -2 ability. While not often activated, Jace’s Ultimate ability is often considered an alternate win condition as it allows the user to freely cast the best spells in both decks. Most decks run 3-4 copies. Sphinx’s Revelation - Arguably the most powerful draw spell in the format, Sphinx’s Revelation gives U/W Control the ability to draw and play its entire deck while gaining generous amounts of life. The spell is often described as “backbreaking” to its opponents when another copy is drawn by a previously casted one. Most decks run 4 copies. Supreme Verdict - The benchmark board wipe of the format. While it can be “answered” indirectly by giving creatures indestructible, regeneration and the like, the spell is exceptionally effective against creature match-ups. That it is uncounterable is an added bonus. Most decks run 4 copies.
Frequently included cards in the main deck Aetherling - This is a highly favoured win condition by many U/W Control players. Difficult to remove once on the battlefield, Aetherling provides inevitability in a relatively timely manner. It is usually run as a 1- or 2-of in the deck to prevent drawing early on when it is unusable. Divination - While the impact is not dramatic, Divination provides basic card draw and is often included to mitigate hand disruption such as Thoughtseize and Duress. The numbers run in decks varies greatly from none to the maximum count of 4. Elixir of Immortality - An indirect win condition, this allows players to recycle their answers, card draw spells and win conditions if they are either discarded or defeated. A singleton is usually run in a deck as it often substitutes an explicit win condition like Aetherling or Elspeth, Sun’s Champion. Quicken - A basic cantrip that also allows your next Sorcery speed spell to be cast at instant speed. This occasionally enables an instant speed board wipe with Supreme Verdict or extra card draw with Divination. Decks choosing to run Quicken typically support 1-2 copies. Syncopate - Provides access to a “soft” turn 2 counterspell on the play and exiling a successfully countered spell is occasionally an added bonus. This is great against decks with big spells that often tap out but is much less effective as the game progresses and the opposing player has excess mana. 2-3 copies are typically run, if used.
W/x or U/x Scry Lands (Temple of Deceit, Temple of Mystery, Temple of Silence, Temple of Triumph) - Before Temple of Enlightenment was available, off-colour scry lands were originally used to provide scry effects for land drops. Now, the presence of scry lands often also provides access to a splash colour for the sideboard.
Common cards in the sideboard, or added to the main deck for metagame considerations Blind Obedience - A specific tempo play against decks that run creatures with haste (i.e. R/x Aggro, Mistcutter Hydra, Stormbreath Dragon, black decks that run Whip of Erebos). The incidental life gain via the Extort ability can be relevant in tight matches. Celestial Flare - A specific answer to aggro decks when any creature removed is preferred or against single threats such as Aura-stacked or untargetable creatures. Essence Scatter - An efficient but creature-only counterspell. It is sometimes chosen for main deck duty if the expected metagame is creature-heavy. Fated Retribution - While expensive, this provides an instant speed board wipe that also clears out planeswalkers with creatures. Conveniently enough, it does not destroy enchantments, leaving cards like Detention Sphere intact. 2 copies are typically found within the 75 card list of the U/W control deck. Gainsay - An efficient counterspell against blue decks, particularly Mono Blue Devotion and the mirror match-ups. It is typically found in the sideboard as 2-4 copies. Jace, Memory Adept - “Big Jace” is often brought in as an alternate win condition to “mill out” opponents with his +0 ability. This can be effective against non-interactive decks such as Maze’s End. Other times he is used for additional draw power with his +1 ability. Rarely main decked, it often resides as a 1-of in the sideboard if needed. Glare of Heresy - Sometimes brought in from the sideboard to remove opposing Detention Spheres and troublesome white permanents like Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Last Breath - This spell is an effective answer against the many 2-power creatures of the Standard format. It is often seen in the main deck when Mono-Blue Devotion and R/x or White Weenie Aggro decks are prevalent. It also provides an answer to opposing Mutavaults and in a pinch, can be used on your own small creatures to gain you additional life. Negate - Often brought into creatureless match-ups and Control match-ups to provide additional efficient answers. It is sometimes brought into match-ups with a high density of planeswalkers. Pithing Needle - An effective answer to planeswalkers to reduce the burden of Detention Sphere in the main deck. It can also be used to disable powerful abilities like Pack Rat’s copy effect and gained abilities from Auras like Underworld Connections (make sure you name the target and not Underworld Connections when Pithing Needle enters the battlefield). Ratchet Bomb - Ratchet Bomb provides a very slow but catch-all answer to any nonland permanent that can be destroyed. Also effective against token swarms since no “ratcheting” is typically required. Revoke Existence - A method of answering indestructible artifacts or enchantments. This is especially useful against Theros Gods and similar to Pithing Needle, it reduces the burden placed on Detention Sphere.
These creatures attempt to capitalize on trumping the opponent’s sideboard strategy of removing creature removal and board wipes. The smaller creatures typically attempt to complicate combat math while the larger creatures help stabilize the game and act as potential win conditions.
When off-colour scry lands are used in the mana base, the U/W Control player gains access to additional cards that can greatly improve specific match-ups in the mid-to-late game.
Strategies/Match-ups
Here is a basic overview of the general strategy against most major deck archetypes. Links to more in-depth strategy posts can be added to this over time.
The early turns are spent using life as a resource to buy time. Having efficient threat removal such as Last Breath and Celestial Flare is ideal. Azorius Charm acts as a great tempo play against non-haste creatures. Jace, Architect of Thought provides abundant life protection with his +1 ability. This often forces your opponent to commit more threats that can then be wiped away by a Supreme Verdict. Sphinx’s Revelation usually closes out the game as it negates the aggro deck’s reach - typically burn spells.
-Typical sideboarding strategy: Cut counterspells, cut sorcery speed spells that do not affect board state (i.e. Divination), provide more efficient, early answers. When available, most transformational sideboard creatures are also effective against aggro decks as strong blockers or to gain extra life (Archangel of Thune, Fiendslayer Paladin).
U/W Control typically has difficulty versus creature-based, planeswalker-supported midrange decks. Typical creatures to combat in Game 1 are Stormbreath Dragon, Polukranos, World Eater. The threats are typically too large for Jace, Architect of Thought’s +1 ability to mitigate. The planeswalkers (Domri Rade, Xenagos, the Reveler) must be countered or answered with Detention Sphere or they provide additional card advantage or recurring threats. Elspeth, Sun’s Champion can usually stabilize the board with soldier tokens as chump blockers. Never tap out on your turn.
- Typical sideboarding strategy: Cut sorcery speed spells that do not affect board state, add more board wipes and answers to Planeswalkers such as Negate and Fated Retribution. Specialty removal like Celestial Flare often plays a key role in removing difficult-to-target threats like Stormbreath Dragon. U/W Control typically has to deal with more cards that are difficult to answer in post-board games like Mistcutter Hydra and Ruric Thar, the Unbowed.
The Game 1 match-up is fairly even - with neither player having very optimal main decks. Cards like Divination typically help refill your hand after early disruption effects like Thoughtseize. Getting ahead with Sphinx’s Revelation is key, as well as countering or removing card advantage engines like Underworld Connections. Some games can be easily stolen away by an early Pack Rat so having the necessary answers (Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict, an early counterspell) are essential in your starting hand.
Hitting land drops is key in all games. Most Game 1’s can get grindy - the victorious player typically has more resources from incremental card draw to eventually resolve a win condition (Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Aetherling) after a counterspell “war.”
- Typical side boarding strategy: Cut board wipes and creature removal, sideboard in more countermagic (Gainsay, Negate), alternate threats. Bringing in white creatures that can dodge Gainsay is a potential strategy as most control players will cut their own board wipes to prevent non-combos with their own creatures and to reduce the amount of dead cards in their decks. Jace, Memory Adept can again function as an alternate win condition or card advantage engine.
Nice that someone finally started a thread! I like your list but I have a few nitpicks.
First, I've played with Omenspeaker a lot and I'd like to say that she is better than Augur of Bolas. Omenspeaker always fixes your draw and does it incredibly well. Augur just sometimes replaces himself. Both have their merits and I really think the deck needs to play a Maritime Guard and it just so happens that Omenspeaker is a great one!
Second, Cavern of Souls is rotating and we can afford to play more countermagic. I'd say 6-8 is the right number for this deck. and Dissolve happens to be incredible.
Lastly, I think you have too many win conditions. Cutting an Elspeth seems reasonable but it would need testing.
I think you're probably right--I was definitely considering adding 2 or 3 essence scatters, but maybe those aren't the counterspells you had in mind. Also, I too am a huge fan of Omenspeaker, the deck fixing makes him a strong play at ANY point in the game. Because, let's face it, Augur sent our 1 of aetherling to the bottom of our library one too many times for us to not be at least a little bit bitter about it.
Also, I'm more inclined to cut 1 aetherling instead of 1 elspeth, only because she just seems to have so much more utility. I've looked at it like this: Elspeth is the better play on turn 6 and 7, maybe 8. From then on, Aetherling is the stronger play. I like the ability to start applying major pressure from turn 6 on, but I also like the inevitably aetherling brings. Gah, the decisions...
Daxos is an underrated card, I think. He's hard to block, and when he gets through you gain life, remove your opponent's spells, and maybe even get to cast something neat from their deck.
Nightvale Specter is another great threat, like Daxos and maybe giving you extra land.
Render Silent is a hard counter and has the ability to protect you the rest of your turn, or deny your opponent much else during theirs. When used right, you not only counter one of their spells but shut down their turn entirely.
Medomai the Ageless is a bit costly, but UW Control games go long, and she (he?) is a great finisher. Pairs great with Aqueous Form.
Thanks for making this thread! I kept going over to esper control telling them how bad their mana is and how little they gain over two colors...
Anyhow, the way I see it there are 53 core cards and 7 flex spots. The meta will shake this up, of course, as that's a lot of set cards, but here goes.
You want to play 26-27 lands, so that's 2 flex spots taken care of right there. Some play 3 mutavault, some play encroaching waste.
As was pointed out, 6-8 counters seems about right, so of our 7 flex spots 3-5 of them are gone. I'm currently at 7 counters. I fill out the deck with 2 azorius keyrune and a ratchet bomb. My Counter suite is at 3 essence scatter, 2 syncopate, and 2 dissipate.
Notes: Quickens a pretty cool trick, but we want to know what cards we have. Wrathing at their end step is nifty, but we only play ~4 sorceries. Quicken +verdict is a good answer to Obzedat, but too much of a corner case.
Omenspeaker is nowhere near as good as augur, and augur had lots of help from Restoration Angel. I like omenspeaker alot against RDW or if my opponent has lots of 2-power stuff. otherwise it's mediocre.
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
I definitely don't disagree with your analysis of Quicken, I just don't know how comfortable playing with no cantrip :P.
I dunno, I think Omenspeaker will definitely do good things for us, despite not providing CA like Augur. And the loss of restoration angel did a ton to hurt the deck, Augur blinking not exempt.
I think the only thing I disagree with in your idea of a "core" list is the 4-of detention sphere and the 3-of Jace. I don't know if 3 Jaces are necessary--of course, I'll test and find out. I think Detention Sphere is a great card, but I'd rather play a 4th Sphinx in place of the 4th sphere. Opinion, though.
Daxos is an underrated card, I think. He's hard to block, and when he gets through you gain life, remove your opponent's spells, and maybe even get to cast something neat from their deck.
Nightvale Specter is another great threat, like Daxos and maybe giving you extra land.
Render Silent is a hard counter and has the ability to protect you the rest of your turn, or deny your opponent much else during theirs. When used right, you not only counter one of their spells but shut down their turn entirely.
Medomai the Ageless is a bit costly, but UW Control games go long, and she (he?) is a great finisher. Pairs great with Aqueous Form.
I don't think your list is bad, at all. But it looks to me like you're looking towards playing a blue jund than a straight control list. Which, while not at all a bad thing, is not the approach I think we should take with this particular deck. I also don't like Render Silent much...the mana cost is a little tight, and it doesn't really do anything more than dissolve before turn 6 or 7, when they have mana to make more than one play in a turn. Plus, scry 1 is incredible in this deck.
I chose Divination over Omenspeaker in this list. After testing with Omenspeaker, I wasn't really happy with how it was performing. Sure it's good against small-er aggro where the 1/3 body is relevant. In other match-ups however, the 1/3 body is almost never relevant and paying 2 mana for 'Scry 2' isn't what I want to be spending my mana on.
Sure, tapping out on Turn 3 to draw 2 cards isn't ideal, but I've found it better in more matchups than Omenspeaker was. I've been playing this list as more of a Tap-out control deck, so casting Divination on T3 isn't too bad for me. Most of the time I've found myself not casting Divination until I've run out of most of my resources in my hand and I need to find more answers for my opponents threats. Not sure if that is how you want to be playing this card, but it has seemed to work for me.
The 1-of Haunted Platemail is just an experiment. He seems to be alright against the more grindy matchups. A threat that dodges sorcery speed removal could be relevant against decks that play things like Mizzium Mortars. He's also a pretty decent clock if your opponent doesn't have a way to deal with him. I also don't mind my opponent wasting something like a Hero's Downfall or other removal on it, that won't be used on Elspeth or AEtherling.
I've really liked Ratchet Bomb as a 2-of in here. I might even consider bumping it up to a 3-of. It's an early spell that can hit multiple early threats against an aggressive deck until you can find a Supreme Verdict. Against control decks, it's one of my only ways to deal with Obzedat. Plus, this thing is a Planeswalker killer! I've used most of my ratchet-bombs in testing dealing with early Domri Rade's and Ashioks. Ratchet Bomb has played a big role in testing.
I've found quicken to be decent, not superb. I've noticed a lot of people running obzedat, so it helps in that regard. It also allows you to play a bit more draw go, but it's by no means perfect. If I were to replace them it would probably be with 2 mainboard celestial flares instead. I'm just having issue with the mana requirements of celestial flare in this deck. 2 white sources on turn 2 is not as common as you'd like. I may have to get rid of mutavaults or add more plains vs islands to account for this; but that doesn't sound that great either.
Essence scatter is always the card I'm most happy to see in my opening hand. I wouldn't go to 4 since it's mostly dead against other control decks, but 3 has been great. This is essentially our doom blade for creatures we can't sweep with verdict. it's also not too difficult to keep two mana open throughout the game, since we've become more tapout control then the previous rotation was.
Debtor's Pulpit in the sideboard could be another aetherling, but I wanted to see if it played better against midrange than aetherling #2 does. I never like seeing multiples of aetherling in a game, even at the risk that they are able to remove it from hand, I'll just move on to my other win cons.
Note: I also noticed that this deck is very similar to one posted above me, glad to see I may be on the right track.
Edit: On omenspeaker, I admit I didn't test it much, but not being a fan of augur much anyways, it just seems worse to me in every way. And I wouldn't have run many augurs back in the day if it wasn't for the interaction with resto angel, which is gone now. If the format is super speedy (which I don't expect even at the beginning) I could see main boarding some omenspeakers. I may start testing them in the sideboard though since there are matchups I'd want them in (speedy red or white weenie decks). Augur was great mainboard because even as a dead card it replaced itself. Omenspeaker can you set you up ok early, but unless it's against a super fast deck, it's not going to matter and is as much of a dead card as augur except it doesn't replace itself 75% of the time.
I've seen a few lists similar to mine. I think we're coming up with something :). I've also really liked Essence Scatter in testing. I'm considering bumping it up to a 2-3 of, but I'm not sure what to replace for them. Depending on how Haunted Platemail performs that could be Essence Scatter #2.
As for not being able to cast Celestial Flare on T2, You never really want to anyways. It's good when you deal with all of your opponents others creatures via Supreme Verdict, ratchet bomb, etc, then you Celestial Flare to catch one of they're big threats (Stormbreath Dragon, Ruric Thar, Obzedat, etc).
Azorius Charm: lifelink can be relevant when stabilizing, but mainly this is good for either a cantrip or to put a dude on top. Never really sad to see one of these.
Sphinx's Revelation: I mean, we're a control deck. Puts the game away a good bit of the time.
Dissolve: Great replacement for dissipate and helps to smooth out draws. hard counters are nice.
Syncopate: can disrupt the opponents tempo and punish mana-screwed opponents.
Celestial Flare: catches people off guard. Great against hexproof/indestructible. Pretty solid.
Renounce the Guilds: really good against Obzedat and other multicolor stuff. It's a bit awkward with detention sphere, but you know that going in so its easy to account for it.
Detention Sphere: almost catch-all removal. great to get rid of a troublesome creature or planeswalker.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion: Great finisher, board wipe can surprise people the turn she comes down. all around solid.
Jace, Architect of Thought: Hoses dudes against aggro, digs deeper into the deck for answers, and the ultimate is pretty sweet. I'd say hes solid.
I might be revealing my own ignorance here, but running only 1 Aetherling or even only 2 puzzles me greatly. What if he's at the bottom of your deck? What if he gets removed? Why not do at least 3, if not 4?
I might be revealing my own ignorance here, but running only 1 Aetherling or even only 2 puzzles me greatly. What if he's at the bottom of your deck? What if he gets removed? Why not do at least 3, if not 4?
Because you don't want more then 2 because, you don't want to draw it in your opener, you don't want uncastable spells until the 6th turn. And lets be realistic, it's really a 7th turn card, so you can protect it.
Played against this sort of deck twice last night, the big thing seemed to be Heliod, God of the Sun. Even if you never plan on being able to attack with him, making vigilance 2/1s forever was really powerful.
He seems comparable to Elspeth; obviously he costs mana to make tokens but he can do so at instant speed which means you can bluff counterspells well, and either way you won't have to spend mana on your own turn. Seems worth trying out.
I have changed fewer and fewer cards as time goes on. Dissolve is great but I want 5 counters online turn 2. I only own 3 sphinx's, but I haven't really wanted the 4th. The card is pretty nuts at breaking stalled boards after a string of one-for-ones but you can certainly win games without casting it.
The only major switched I would consider would be switching to esper if the format is super slow. Esper's mana is terrible, and we have the most powerful spells in UW anyhow. The only thing I'd want is bloodbaron/obzedat, as there are many decks, such as GW aggro or tokens that literally cannot beat a bloodbaron.
Still, I'm happily going to start the format with this baby. I'll post results as I get them.
Private Mod Note
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Obzedat is tough. Sometimes you can get ratchet bomb to 5. SOmetimes you can celestial flare it. Quicken+supreme verdict do the trick. Alternately, and as sad as it sounds, we can just not worry about obzedat. Whenever possible save counters for him. Oftentimes you can race obzedat with an aetherling as they won't attack for fear of celestial flare.
He's definitely a problem, but every deck in the format will have cards that it has trouble beating. Elspeth is particularly good at racing and chumping an obzedat.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
I don't have any specifics on the event or what Mr. Tietze played against but some interesting choices. A singleton Aetherling as the only creature in the deck is a classic control strategy essentially nullifying any concentrated creature removal and it was obviously enough to get him to the finals. I wonder what percentage his wins were via Aetherling vs. other. Ratchet Bomb, made a 2-of in the MB. A miser's Quicken is a very interesting inclusion as well. I'd be curious how many times it was used to effect as opposed as simply to draw and how many times it was sided out. Yoked Ox is a peculiar SB decision over Fiendslayer Paladin or the 2/2 first strike token knight whose name escapes me.
Any other thoughts on this list and its long term viability?
There was more esper in the top 32, but UW both beat esper in the top 8 and placed higher. Debate is still on going forward.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
The idea behind the 1 of Quicken is simple: it's the only 1 mana cantrip in the format. Sure, sometimes you can cast a Supreme Verdict on your opponent's turn, but it's mostly there to cycle.
Yoked Ox is similar to control decks running Kraken Hatchling or Perimeter Captain in past standard seasons- it's a 1 drop with a big butt that can wall early game aggro.
Ratchet Bomb in the main makes sense, since it's a good catch-all, albeit a slow one.
Personally, I've been running an alteration on the list Ali Aintrazi posted in his article, with -1 Quicken and +1 Dissolve.
I've only jammed a few games against mono red, but the list has felt pretty good so far. 4 Essence Scatter feels correct, and while not the best in control mirrors, it still has its applications.
I personally don't like Quicken, and wanted an extra Dissolve main, so it was an easy cut- so far I haven't missed or needed the cantrip.
Thassa might be a controversial slot, but so far, I like the Scry 1. Occasionally, she becomes a creature, and that's just gravy. I'm happy with this as a 1 of in the main for now.
4 of Jace also feels correct, I always want one as soon as I can stick it.
As for the sideboard, I haven't jammed any games with it, and you can read the article to see his reasonings. I'm inclined to keep it until further notice.
What does everyone think about a few copies of Master of waves in the board against Mono red? Might be too slow?
How would it be slow? Very few if any Red list should have you dead by the time you cast it unless you kept a terrible hand. Not Huntmaster by any mile but against red it does it's best impression of one.
Personally I feel that there are simply better things you could be running in your board atm. If anything what makes Master bad is that he is just too narrow unless you are dedicated to make the most out of his ability or if mono red remains everywhere.
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Brilliant ideas are stupid ideas that worked - Patrick Chapin
This is my current build, which is going for 1) diversity of finishers, a weak point of the deck, and 2) a strong anti-Esper/UWR game, since we do better versus aggro, but worse versus control.
The unpopular choice is Render Silent, but I like this card against decks that want to bait us out with something (say a Thoughtseize) and then capitalize on our having insufficient mana left to do anything else. Render Silent punishes that approach, which Esper and Dega rely on heavily. American also gets value form that move, so I am in favor of simply punishing them for baiting us, which is why I go to 3 in control matches.
The basic deck essentially has 6 possibly finishers (Jace, Architect of Thought's ultimate lets you take their finisher and play it) and Haunted Platemail makes Mutavault and Soldier tokens much more powerful and aggressive, besides its being immune to most sorcery speed creature removal.
Blind Obedience is also a value card against Whip of Erebos/Ghost Grandpa decks, as well as aggro, and its gives another source of both lifegain and damage.
In the side, Aetherize is my response to not having another sweeper. It really crushes the tempo of aggressive decks and we usually are winning the mana war, so forcing them to replay everything they swung at us with is quite good.
The 4 D-spheres are there because so many aggro decks are running planeswalkers that are really a huge problem for us. You have to be able to lock them down. Plus Red is puking 2-3 of the same creature out turn 2 (thanks BTE), so you ought to be able to take them all in a 2-3-for-1. And Ratchet Bomb is way too slow. Turn two to get it started? By the time you can hit their two drops, they have hit you twice. Domri Rade? Its gotten busy for 2-3 turns. Ratchet Bomb is second rate and 2 D-Sphere is not enough.
I've been testing w/ Spear of Heliod ...either 1 main/1 sb or 2 SB.
It's been pretty sweet. Makes your Elspeth tokens much better obviously...If you're running Omenspeaker it's now a 2/4, not to mention the activated ability on this thing. Makes your opponents really think about what to attack with if you have the mana up.
Unless it draws me cards at the rate of jace, wraths or wins me the game I'm not a fan of tapping out with this deck. Ideally, the game goes something like this: Counter key threats when the opponent taps out on turns 2-5. Play a supreme verdict (ideally with essence scatter or dissolve backup if they have obzedat. Revelate, aetherling or elspeth to pull ahead/stabilize.
Rinse and repeat. The trick is getting the tempo right for the various threats in the format.
For aggro we want a small creature. Best suggestions I've seen are omenspeaker, yoked ox and fiendstriker paladin. Paladin can be a house vs red but he trades with ash zealot and he is only mediocre against the GW aggro.
scion of vitu ghazi si in the same spot as prognostic sphinx: good stuff that may not be necessary. What deck did we previously have problems with that vhitu ghazi will help us beat?
I like the idea of 2 aetherling and 2 elspeth. You win many games by jamming them on turn 6 and taking over the board. The extra copies hedge vs thoughtseize and the weird games where your relevant spells are clumped on the bottom.
YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
I've written an updated Primer for you all to critique. I think it is mostly common knowledge for any regular U/W control players but good for anyone interested in an overview. For more in-depth content, I hope you guys could step up and write some excellent posts on specific match-ups, sideboard strategies, etc. that can be linked to this post.
Hopefully it's good enough and I will message a moderator to have it promoted to the first post of this thread.
Lastly, excuse the spelling of some words - I am Canadian.
U/W Control
(aka Azorius Control, Blue-White Control)
Introduction
As of early Born of the Gods Standard, U/W Control is a Tier 1 deck archetype. While “slow” to setup, it consists of a very reliable mana base with a superior suite of virtually non-discriminatory answers in the form of removal and countermagic, some of the best card draw in the current Standard format and potent win conditions. In organized play, it boasts very favourable Game 1 match-ups against most top tier deck archetypes and has numerous proven variants, forcing its opponents to stay updated on the latest deck lists lest they be surprised by sideboard strategies involving creature beatdowns or splashed “tech” spells.
Despite these upsides, U/W Control has some obvious drawbacks. For one, its main deck strategy is generally quite linear and predictable. Because of its reactive nature, the deck can be difficult to play correctly versus multiple deck archetypes. Pilots must know which spells are worth answering immediately versus those that can be responded to on future turns. The nature of the deck also implies it is slow and requires numerous turns to achieve victory - a fast play pace is often necessary to avoid unintentional draws or outcomes due to round time limits.
Deck Lists
Typical Deck Lists as of late Theros Standard (pre-Born of the Gods):
This deck is biased towards fighting aggro decks and Mono Blue Devotion.
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
7 Island
2 Mutavault
6 Plains
2 Temple of Deceit
2 Temple of Silence
Spells (33)
4 Azorius Charm
4 Detention Sphere
4 Dissolve
3 Elspeth, Sun’s Champion
2 Essence Scatter
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Last Breath
4 Sphinx’s Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Archangel of Thune
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Gainsay
2 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
3 Soldier of the Pantheon
This deck is built to combat hand disruption by Mono Black Devotion with redundant card draw and essentially draw the deck contents indefinitely with Elixir of Immortality.
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
8 Island
2 Mutavault
8 Plains
Spells (34)
4 Azorius Charm
4 Detention Sphere
4 Divination
4 Dissolve
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Quicken
1 Ratchet Bomb
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Syncopate
1 Blind Obedience
3 Fiendslayer Paladin
3 Gainsay
1 Jace, Memory Adept
3 Last Breath
2 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
This deck is an example of a transformational sideboard for a post-board creature beatdown strategy versus aggro and Mono Blue and black-on-black removal to improve the Mono Black match-up.
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
5 Island
3 Mutavault
5 Plains
4 Temple of Deceit
2 Temple of Silence
Creatures (1)
1 Aetherling
2 Azorius Charm
4 Detention Sphere
4 Dissolve
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Last Breath
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Syncopate
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Archangel of Thune
3 Gainsay
1 Opportunity
3 Dark Betrayal
The U/W “shell” consists of the following cards:
Lands
Azorius Guildgate | Hallowed Fountain | Island | Plains | Mutavault | Temple of Enlightenment
The three different U/W dual lands provide the main foundation for the deck. The maximum number of Hallowed Fountain and Temple of Enlightenment are typically played, with some number of Azorius Guildgates and a generous helping of basic Plains and Islands.
Thanks to this fairly stable mana base, Mutavault can be run to provide additional win conditions (albeit slow and arduous) and pressure against opposing Planeswalkers, particularly after a board wipe. Most decks run 2-3.
Spells
Azorius Charm - While not necessarily impactful, the versatile Azorius Charm is also seldomly a dead card in game 1, allowing the caster to cycle it, make a tempo play versus an attacking or blocking threat or help race by given his/her creatures Lifelink. While many decks run 3-4 copies, experimental variants are cutting this card altogether for more specific answers.
Detention Sphere - This is a non-discriminate sorcery-speed removal spell that answers virtually all nonland permanents. Most decks run 4 copies.
Dissolve - This is the de facto counter spell in the format. The incidental scrying also offers control players additional card selection. Most decks also run 4 copies.
Elspeth, Sun’s Champion - The deck’s premier win condition from Theros. Elspeth’s +1 ability provides three 1/1 Soldier tokens as “chump blockers” or the basis for a swarm army. Her -3 ability acts as a conditional board wipe for large threats and her Ultimate ability is often the game winner in combination with the soldier token presence. Most decks run 1-3 copies.
Jace, Architect of Thought - The versatile bridge between the early and late games, Jace provides excellent protection against aggro decks with his +1 ability and card advantage and selection with his -2 ability. While not often activated, Jace’s Ultimate ability is often considered an alternate win condition as it allows the user to freely cast the best spells in both decks. Most decks run 3-4 copies.
Sphinx’s Revelation - Arguably the most powerful draw spell in the format, Sphinx’s Revelation gives U/W Control the ability to draw and play its entire deck while gaining generous amounts of life. The spell is often described as “backbreaking” to its opponents when another copy is drawn by a previously casted one. Most decks run 4 copies.
Supreme Verdict - The benchmark board wipe of the format. While it can be “answered” indirectly by giving creatures indestructible, regeneration and the like, the spell is exceptionally effective against creature match-ups. That it is uncounterable is an added bonus. Most decks run 4 copies.
Frequently included cards in the main deck
Aetherling - This is a highly favoured win condition by many U/W Control players. Difficult to remove once on the battlefield, Aetherling provides inevitability in a relatively timely manner. It is usually run as a 1- or 2-of in the deck to prevent drawing early on when it is unusable.
Divination - While the impact is not dramatic, Divination provides basic card draw and is often included to mitigate hand disruption such as Thoughtseize and Duress. The numbers run in decks varies greatly from none to the maximum count of 4.
Elixir of Immortality - An indirect win condition, this allows players to recycle their answers, card draw spells and win conditions if they are either discarded or defeated. A singleton is usually run in a deck as it often substitutes an explicit win condition like Aetherling or Elspeth, Sun’s Champion.
Quicken - A basic cantrip that also allows your next Sorcery speed spell to be cast at instant speed. This occasionally enables an instant speed board wipe with Supreme Verdict or extra card draw with Divination. Decks choosing to run Quicken typically support 1-2 copies.
Syncopate - Provides access to a “soft” turn 2 counterspell on the play and exiling a successfully countered spell is occasionally an added bonus. This is great against decks with big spells that often tap out but is much less effective as the game progresses and the opposing player has excess mana. 2-3 copies are typically run, if used.
W/x or U/x Scry Lands (Temple of Deceit, Temple of Mystery, Temple of Silence, Temple of Triumph) - Before Temple of Enlightenment was available, off-colour scry lands were originally used to provide scry effects for land drops. Now, the presence of scry lands often also provides access to a splash colour for the sideboard.
Common cards in the sideboard, or added to the main deck for metagame considerations
Blind Obedience - A specific tempo play against decks that run creatures with haste (i.e. R/x Aggro, Mistcutter Hydra, Stormbreath Dragon, black decks that run Whip of Erebos). The incidental life gain via the Extort ability can be relevant in tight matches.
Celestial Flare - A specific answer to aggro decks when any creature removed is preferred or against single threats such as Aura-stacked or untargetable creatures.
Essence Scatter - An efficient but creature-only counterspell. It is sometimes chosen for main deck duty if the expected metagame is creature-heavy.
Fated Retribution - While expensive, this provides an instant speed board wipe that also clears out planeswalkers with creatures. Conveniently enough, it does not destroy enchantments, leaving cards like Detention Sphere intact. 2 copies are typically found within the 75 card list of the U/W control deck.
Gainsay - An efficient counterspell against blue decks, particularly Mono Blue Devotion and the mirror match-ups. It is typically found in the sideboard as 2-4 copies.
Jace, Memory Adept - “Big Jace” is often brought in as an alternate win condition to “mill out” opponents with his +0 ability. This can be effective against non-interactive decks such as Maze’s End. Other times he is used for additional draw power with his +1 ability. Rarely main decked, it often resides as a 1-of in the sideboard if needed.
Glare of Heresy - Sometimes brought in from the sideboard to remove opposing Detention Spheres and troublesome white permanents like Elspeth, Sun's Champion.
Last Breath - This spell is an effective answer against the many 2-power creatures of the Standard format. It is often seen in the main deck when Mono-Blue Devotion and R/x or White Weenie Aggro decks are prevalent. It also provides an answer to opposing Mutavaults and in a pinch, can be used on your own small creatures to gain you additional life.
Negate - Often brought into creatureless match-ups and Control match-ups to provide additional efficient answers. It is sometimes brought into match-ups with a high density of planeswalkers.
Pithing Needle - An effective answer to planeswalkers to reduce the burden of Detention Sphere in the main deck. It can also be used to disable powerful abilities like Pack Rat’s copy effect and gained abilities from Auras like Underworld Connections (make sure you name the target and not Underworld Connections when Pithing Needle enters the battlefield).
Ratchet Bomb - Ratchet Bomb provides a very slow but catch-all answer to any nonland permanent that can be destroyed. Also effective against token swarms since no “ratcheting” is typically required.
Revoke Existence - A method of answering indestructible artifacts or enchantments. This is especially useful against Theros Gods and similar to Pithing Needle, it reduces the burden placed on Detention Sphere.
Typical Transformational Sideboard Card Choices
Archangel of Thune | Brimaz, King of Oreskos | Fiendslayer Paladin | Soldier of the Pantheon
(more information can be linked here)
These creatures attempt to capitalize on trumping the opponent’s sideboard strategy of removing creature removal and board wipes. The smaller creatures typically attempt to complicate combat math while the larger creatures help stabilize the game and act as potential win conditions.
Typical Splash Main/Sideboard Card Choices
Assemble the Legion | Blood Baron of Vizkopa | Counterflux | Dark Betrayal | Doom Blade | Thoughtseize
(more information can be linked here)
When off-colour scry lands are used in the mana base, the U/W Control player gains access to additional cards that can greatly improve specific match-ups in the mid-to-late game.
Strategies/Match-ups
Here is a basic overview of the general strategy against most major deck archetypes. Links to more in-depth strategy posts can be added to this over time.
Aggro (i.e. R/x aggro, White Weenie, G/W aggro, Game 1 Mono-Blue Devotion, R/w Devotion)
- Key shell cards: Jace, Architect of Thought, Supreme Verdict, Sphinx’s Revelation
The early turns are spent using life as a resource to buy time. Having efficient threat removal such as Last Breath and Celestial Flare is ideal. Azorius Charm acts as a great tempo play against non-haste creatures. Jace, Architect of Thought provides abundant life protection with his +1 ability. This often forces your opponent to commit more threats that can then be wiped away by a Supreme Verdict. Sphinx’s Revelation usually closes out the game as it negates the aggro deck’s reach - typically burn spells.
-Typical sideboarding strategy: Cut counterspells, cut sorcery speed spells that do not affect board state (i.e. Divination), provide more efficient, early answers. When available, most transformational sideboard creatures are also effective against aggro decks as strong blockers or to gain extra life (Archangel of Thune, Fiendslayer Paladin).
Creature Midrange (i.e. G/R Monsters)
- Key cards: Detention Sphere, Dissolve, Elspeth, Sun’s Champion
U/W Control typically has difficulty versus creature-based, planeswalker-supported midrange decks. Typical creatures to combat in Game 1 are Stormbreath Dragon, Polukranos, World Eater. The threats are typically too large for Jace, Architect of Thought’s +1 ability to mitigate. The planeswalkers (Domri Rade, Xenagos, the Reveler) must be countered or answered with Detention Sphere or they provide additional card advantage or recurring threats. Elspeth, Sun’s Champion can usually stabilize the board with soldier tokens as chump blockers. Never tap out on your turn.
- Typical sideboarding strategy: Cut sorcery speed spells that do not affect board state, add more board wipes and answers to Planeswalkers such as Negate and Fated Retribution. Specialty removal like Celestial Flare often plays a key role in removing difficult-to-target threats like Stormbreath Dragon. U/W Control typically has to deal with more cards that are difficult to answer in post-board games like Mistcutter Hydra and Ruric Thar, the Unbowed.
Black Control (i.e. Mono-Black Devotion)
- Key cards: Detention Sphere, Dissolve, Sphinx’s Revelation
The Game 1 match-up is fairly even - with neither player having very optimal main decks. Cards like Divination typically help refill your hand after early disruption effects like Thoughtseize. Getting ahead with Sphinx’s Revelation is key, as well as countering or removing card advantage engines like Underworld Connections. Some games can be easily stolen away by an early Pack Rat so having the necessary answers (Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict, an early counterspell) are essential in your starting hand.
- Typical side boarding strategy: Bring in Negate to counter more hand disruption (i.e. Duress), Pithing Needle as an additional answer to Underworld Connections, Pack Rat or even Mutavault. Some players prefer Jace, Memory Adept as an additional target for Hero’s Downfall and to either end the game early or provide additional card draw. Black Devotion typically also brings in Erebos, God of the Dead to negate the life gain effects from Sphinx’s Revelation and provide them with a redundant card draw engine.
Blue Control (i.e. U/W Control, Esper)
- Key cards: Dissolve, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Sphinx’s Revelation
Hitting land drops is key in all games. Most Game 1’s can get grindy - the victorious player typically has more resources from incremental card draw to eventually resolve a win condition (Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Aetherling) after a counterspell “war.”
- Typical side boarding strategy: Cut board wipes and creature removal, sideboard in more countermagic (Gainsay, Negate), alternate threats. Bringing in white creatures that can dodge Gainsay is a potential strategy as most control players will cut their own board wipes to prevent non-combos with their own creatures and to reduce the amount of dead cards in their decks. Jace, Memory Adept can again function as an alternate win condition or card advantage engine.
First, I've played with Omenspeaker a lot and I'd like to say that she is better than Augur of Bolas. Omenspeaker always fixes your draw and does it incredibly well. Augur just sometimes replaces himself. Both have their merits and I really think the deck needs to play a Maritime Guard and it just so happens that Omenspeaker is a great one!
Second, Cavern of Souls is rotating and we can afford to play more countermagic. I'd say 6-8 is the right number for this deck. and Dissolve happens to be incredible.
Lastly, I think you have too many win conditions. Cutting an Elspeth seems reasonable but it would need testing.
[THS|SOM|5TH] Devotion to Black
Also, I'm more inclined to cut 1 aetherling instead of 1 elspeth, only because she just seems to have so much more utility. I've looked at it like this: Elspeth is the better play on turn 6 and 7, maybe 8. From then on, Aetherling is the stronger play. I like the ability to start applying major pressure from turn 6 on, but I also like the inevitably aetherling brings. Gah, the decisions...
4 Omen Speaker
4 Nightveil Specter
3 Daxos of Meletis
3 Aetherling
3 Medomai the Ageless
Spells
3 Aqueous Form
3 Render Silent
2 Dissolve
2 Swan Song
3 Azorius Charm
4 Voyage's End
3 Detention Sphere
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
8 Plains
8 Island
1 Unknown Shores
Daxos is an underrated card, I think. He's hard to block, and when he gets through you gain life, remove your opponent's spells, and maybe even get to cast something neat from their deck.
Nightvale Specter is another great threat, like Daxos and maybe giving you extra land.
Render Silent is a hard counter and has the ability to protect you the rest of your turn, or deny your opponent much else during theirs. When used right, you not only counter one of their spells but shut down their turn entirely.
Medomai the Ageless is a bit costly, but UW Control games go long, and she (he?) is a great finisher. Pairs great with Aqueous Form.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Anyhow, the way I see it there are 53 core cards and 7 flex spots. The meta will shake this up, of course, as that's a lot of set cards, but here goes.
BASIC CORE for U/W CONTROL:
4 Hallowed Fountain
9 Island
6 Plains
1 Mutavault
4 Detention Sphere
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Azorius Charm
1 Syncopate
1 Dissolve
1 Essence Scatter
2 Celestial Flare
You want to play 26-27 lands, so that's 2 flex spots taken care of right there. Some play 3 mutavault, some play encroaching waste.
As was pointed out, 6-8 counters seems about right, so of our 7 flex spots 3-5 of them are gone. I'm currently at 7 counters. I fill out the deck with 2 azorius keyrune and a ratchet bomb. My Counter suite is at 3 essence scatter, 2 syncopate, and 2 dissipate.
Current sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Negate
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Celestial Flare
1 Blind Obedience
2 Omenspeaker
Notes: Quickens a pretty cool trick, but we want to know what cards we have. Wrathing at their end step is nifty, but we only play ~4 sorceries. Quicken +verdict is a good answer to Obzedat, but too much of a corner case.
Omenspeaker is nowhere near as good as augur, and augur had lots of help from Restoration Angel. I like omenspeaker alot against RDW or if my opponent has lots of 2-power stuff. otherwise it's mediocre.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
I dunno, I think Omenspeaker will definitely do good things for us, despite not providing CA like Augur. And the loss of restoration angel did a ton to hurt the deck, Augur blinking not exempt.
I think the only thing I disagree with in your idea of a "core" list is the 4-of detention sphere and the 3-of Jace. I don't know if 3 Jaces are necessary--of course, I'll test and find out. I think Detention Sphere is a great card, but I'd rather play a 4th Sphinx in place of the 4th sphere. Opinion, though.
I don't think your list is bad, at all. But it looks to me like you're looking towards playing a blue jund than a straight control list. Which, while not at all a bad thing, is not the approach I think we should take with this particular deck. I also don't like Render Silent much...the mana cost is a little tight, and it doesn't really do anything more than dissolve before turn 6 or 7, when they have mana to make more than one play in a turn. Plus, scry 1 is incredible in this deck.
2 AEtherling
Planeswalkers:
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Sorceries:
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Divination
Instants:
4 Azorius Charm
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Celestial Flare
2 Dissolve
2 Syncopate
1 Essence Scatter
4 Detention Sphere
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Haunted Platemail
Land:
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
2 Mutavault
8 Island
8 Plains
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Last Breath
2 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blind Obedience
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 AEtherize
I chose Divination over Omenspeaker in this list. After testing with Omenspeaker, I wasn't really happy with how it was performing. Sure it's good against small-er aggro where the 1/3 body is relevant. In other match-ups however, the 1/3 body is almost never relevant and paying 2 mana for 'Scry 2' isn't what I want to be spending my mana on.
Sure, tapping out on Turn 3 to draw 2 cards isn't ideal, but I've found it better in more matchups than Omenspeaker was. I've been playing this list as more of a Tap-out control deck, so casting Divination on T3 isn't too bad for me. Most of the time I've found myself not casting Divination until I've run out of most of my resources in my hand and I need to find more answers for my opponents threats. Not sure if that is how you want to be playing this card, but it has seemed to work for me.
The 1-of Haunted Platemail is just an experiment. He seems to be alright against the more grindy matchups. A threat that dodges sorcery speed removal could be relevant against decks that play things like Mizzium Mortars. He's also a pretty decent clock if your opponent doesn't have a way to deal with him. I also don't mind my opponent wasting something like a Hero's Downfall or other removal on it, that won't be used on Elspeth or AEtherling.
I've really liked Ratchet Bomb as a 2-of in here. I might even consider bumping it up to a 3-of. It's an early spell that can hit multiple early threats against an aggressive deck until you can find a Supreme Verdict. Against control decks, it's one of my only ways to deal with Obzedat. Plus, this thing is a Planeswalker killer! I've used most of my ratchet-bombs in testing dealing with early Domri Rade's and Ashioks. Ratchet Bomb has played a big role in testing.
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
9 Island
7 Plains
2 Mutavault
Creatures (1):
1 Aetherling
Instants (17):
4 Azorius Charm
2 Dissolve
3 Essence Scatter
2 Syncopate
2 Quicken
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Divination
4 Supreme Verdict
Enchantments (3):
3 Detention Sphere
Artifacts (2):
2 Ratchet Bomb
Planeswalkers (5):
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Blind Obedience
2 Celestial Flare
1 Debtor's Pulpit
2 Dispel
2 Glare of Heresy
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Last Breath
3 Negate
1 Pithing Needle
I've found quicken to be decent, not superb. I've noticed a lot of people running obzedat, so it helps in that regard. It also allows you to play a bit more draw go, but it's by no means perfect. If I were to replace them it would probably be with 2 mainboard celestial flares instead. I'm just having issue with the mana requirements of celestial flare in this deck. 2 white sources on turn 2 is not as common as you'd like. I may have to get rid of mutavaults or add more plains vs islands to account for this; but that doesn't sound that great either.
Essence scatter is always the card I'm most happy to see in my opening hand. I wouldn't go to 4 since it's mostly dead against other control decks, but 3 has been great. This is essentially our doom blade for creatures we can't sweep with verdict. it's also not too difficult to keep two mana open throughout the game, since we've become more tapout control then the previous rotation was.
Debtor's Pulpit in the sideboard could be another aetherling, but I wanted to see if it played better against midrange than aetherling #2 does. I never like seeing multiples of aetherling in a game, even at the risk that they are able to remove it from hand, I'll just move on to my other win cons.
Note: I also noticed that this deck is very similar to one posted above me, glad to see I may be on the right track.
Edit: On omenspeaker, I admit I didn't test it much, but not being a fan of augur much anyways, it just seems worse to me in every way. And I wouldn't have run many augurs back in the day if it wasn't for the interaction with resto angel, which is gone now. If the format is super speedy (which I don't expect even at the beginning) I could see main boarding some omenspeakers. I may start testing them in the sideboard though since there are matchups I'd want them in (speedy red or white weenie decks). Augur was great mainboard because even as a dead card it replaced itself. Omenspeaker can you set you up ok early, but unless it's against a super fast deck, it's not going to matter and is as much of a dead card as augur except it doesn't replace itself 75% of the time.
As for not being able to cast Celestial Flare on T2, You never really want to anyways. It's good when you deal with all of your opponents others creatures via Supreme Verdict, ratchet bomb, etc, then you Celestial Flare to catch one of they're big threats (Stormbreath Dragon, Ruric Thar, Obzedat, etc).
3 Omenspeaker
1 Aetherling
Instants/Sorceries:
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Azorious charm
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Celestial Flare
3 Dissolve
3 Syncopate
1 Renounce the Guilds
4 Detention Sphere
Planeswalkers:
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
Land:
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Mutavault
10 Plains
8 Island
3 Renounce the Guilds
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blind Obedience
2 Negate
2 Hundred-Handed One
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Dispel
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Omenspeaker
Card Choices:
Aetherling: Short order finisher, worthy of a spot.
Omenspeaker: very good turn two play, blocks bears all day and smooths out draws.
Supreme Verdict: Board wipe, pretty self-explanatory
Azorius Charm: lifelink can be relevant when stabilizing, but mainly this is good for either a cantrip or to put a dude on top. Never really sad to see one of these.
Sphinx's Revelation: I mean, we're a control deck. Puts the game away a good bit of the time.
Dissolve: Great replacement for dissipate and helps to smooth out draws. hard counters are nice.
Syncopate: can disrupt the opponents tempo and punish mana-screwed opponents.
Celestial Flare: catches people off guard. Great against hexproof/indestructible. Pretty solid.
Renounce the Guilds: really good against Obzedat and other multicolor stuff. It's a bit awkward with detention sphere, but you know that going in so its easy to account for it.
Detention Sphere: almost catch-all removal. great to get rid of a troublesome creature or planeswalker.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion: Great finisher, board wipe can surprise people the turn she comes down. all around solid.
Jace, Architect of Thought: Hoses dudes against aggro, digs deeper into the deck for answers, and the ultimate is pretty sweet. I'd say hes solid.
Hallowed Fountain: untapped split land? Yes please.
Azorius Guildgate: can be pretty good on turn one. Can be clunky when drawn if you need a land that turn though. I run 1-2.
Mutavault: man-land to attack or block when needed? comes in untapped? great.
Side:
Blind obedience: great against haste (and the new stormbreath dragon) and lifegain on any spell you want? seems good.
Renounce the guilds: most of the time its a solid answer.
Hundred-Handed one: can't be helixed, blocks most dudes all day. can attack while still being able to block. monstrous is ridiculous against aggro.
Pithing Needle: planeswalker/aetherling hate.
Dispel: one mana revelation counter seems good against control.
Negate: again, pretty good against control, or any deck low on creatures.
Heliod: makes dudes and sometimes even becomes a dude. will need tested more, sees ok against midrange/control.
Jace, Memory Adept: Unanswered against control generally wins you the game.
Omenspeaker: again, blocks all day and smooths out our draws.
Any Suggestions?
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Because you don't want more then 2 because, you don't want to draw it in your opener, you don't want uncastable spells until the 6th turn. And lets be realistic, it's really a 7th turn card, so you can protect it.
Dega midrange 1-0
He seems comparable to Elspeth; obviously he costs mana to make tokens but he can do so at instant speed which means you can bluff counterspells well, and either way you won't have to spend mana on your own turn. Seems worth trying out.
Standard: :symu::symu::symu: Mono-Blue Devotion :symu::symu::symu:
Modern: :symr::symu: UR Pyro-Faeries :symu::symr:
EDH Decks:
Thassa, God of VALUE (now with decklist!)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
People with signatures are morons.
4 Hallowed Fountain
10 Island
7 Plains
1 Mutavault
2 AEtherling
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Syncopate
2 Dissolve
2 Essence Scatter
2 Celestial Flare
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Detention Sphere
2 Azorius Keyrune
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Pithing Needle
2 Negate
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Celestial Flare
1 Blind Obedience
2 Omenspeaker
I have changed fewer and fewer cards as time goes on. Dissolve is great but I want 5 counters online turn 2. I only own 3 sphinx's, but I haven't really wanted the 4th. The card is pretty nuts at breaking stalled boards after a string of one-for-ones but you can certainly win games without casting it.
The only major switched I would consider would be switching to esper if the format is super slow. Esper's mana is terrible, and we have the most powerful spells in UW anyhow. The only thing I'd want is bloodbaron/obzedat, as there are many decks, such as GW aggro or tokens that literally cannot beat a bloodbaron.
Still, I'm happily going to start the format with this baby. I'll post results as I get them.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
Obzedat is tough. Sometimes you can get ratchet bomb to 5. SOmetimes you can celestial flare it. Quicken+supreme verdict do the trick. Alternately, and as sad as it sounds, we can just not worry about obzedat. Whenever possible save counters for him. Oftentimes you can race obzedat with an aetherling as they won't attack for fear of celestial flare.
He's definitely a problem, but every deck in the format will have cards that it has trouble beating. Elspeth is particularly good at racing and chumping an obzedat.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=19&start_date=2013-09-29&end_date=2013-09-29&state=MA&city=Worcester&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks
Specific to this thread, UW (not Esper) Control by Max Tietze took second place to losing to a very focused RDW. Deck list below:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=59587
I don't have any specifics on the event or what Mr. Tietze played against but some interesting choices. A singleton Aetherling as the only creature in the deck is a classic control strategy essentially nullifying any concentrated creature removal and it was obviously enough to get him to the finals. I wonder what percentage his wins were via Aetherling vs. other. Ratchet Bomb, made a 2-of in the MB. A miser's Quicken is a very interesting inclusion as well. I'd be curious how many times it was used to effect as opposed as simply to draw and how many times it was sided out. Yoked Ox is a peculiar SB decision over Fiendslayer Paladin or the 2/2 first strike token knight whose name escapes me.
Any other thoughts on this list and its long term viability?
There was more esper in the top 32, but UW both beat esper in the top 8 and placed higher. Debate is still on going forward.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
Yoked Ox is similar to control decks running Kraken Hatchling or Perimeter Captain in past standard seasons- it's a 1 drop with a big butt that can wall early game aggro.
Ratchet Bomb in the main makes sense, since it's a good catch-all, albeit a slow one.
Personally, I've been running an alteration on the list Ali Aintrazi posted in his article, with -1 Quicken and +1 Dissolve.
2 Aetherling
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
Planeswalkers (5)
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
Lands (28)
10 Island
8 Plains
4 Azorius Guildgate
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mutavault
3 Detention Sphere
4 Azorius Charm
2 Dissolve
4 Essence Scatter
4 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Syncopate
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Hundred-Handed One
4 Nightveil Specter
2 Blind Obedience
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
I've only jammed a few games against mono red, but the list has felt pretty good so far. 4 Essence Scatter feels correct, and while not the best in control mirrors, it still has its applications.
I personally don't like Quicken, and wanted an extra Dissolve main, so it was an easy cut- so far I haven't missed or needed the cantrip.
Thassa might be a controversial slot, but so far, I like the Scry 1. Occasionally, she becomes a creature, and that's just gravy. I'm happy with this as a 1 of in the main for now.
4 of Jace also feels correct, I always want one as soon as I can stick it.
As for the sideboard, I haven't jammed any games with it, and you can read the article to see his reasonings. I'm inclined to keep it until further notice.
DDFT UBWR
Tinfins
Back to back turn 1 kills at SCG St. Louis:
http://blip.tv/scglive/scgstl-leg-rd-8-logan-creen-vs-joe-skirmont-6602155
Dega midrange 1-0
How would it be slow? Very few if any Red list should have you dead by the time you cast it unless you kept a terrible hand. Not Huntmaster by any mile but against red it does it's best impression of one.
Personally I feel that there are simply better things you could be running in your board atm. If anything what makes Master bad is that he is just too narrow unless you are dedicated to make the most out of his ability or if mono red remains everywhere.
3 Mutavault
2 Encroaching Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
8 Island
4 Plains
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Deceit
1 AEtherling
2 Syncopate
2 Celestial Flare
1 Last Breath
4 Supreme Verdict
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Azorius Charm
4 Detention Sphere
1 Dissolve
2 Divination
3 Essence Scatter
1 Celestial Flare
2 Last Breath
2 Dispel
3 Archangel of Thune
3 Jace, Memory Adept
4 Omenspeaker
Sideboard is still iffy. Especially those Omenspeakers. The sideboard probably needs a disenchant variant
The maindeck has been doing really well. Also, 1 Aetherling is enough. Most of the time you just cast Elspeth and win anyway
4 Azorius Guildgate
2 Mutavault
4 Hallowed Fountain
8 Island
8 Plains
Creatures 1
1 AEtherling
Instants 18
1 Essence Scatter
2 Dissolve
2 Render Silent
3 Celestial Flare
4 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Azorius Charm
2 Quicken
4 Supreme Verdict
Planeswalkers 5
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
Enchantments 5
4 Detention Sphere
1 Blind Obedience
Artifacts 1
1 Haunted Platemail
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Blind Obedience
2 Swan Song
2 Negate
2 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Aetherize
2 Pithing Needle
1 Render Silent
Quicken is a good cantrip. I would rather have two of them and a Haunted Platemail for finishing than Omenspeaker.
The unpopular choice is Render Silent, but I like this card against decks that want to bait us out with something (say a Thoughtseize) and then capitalize on our having insufficient mana left to do anything else. Render Silent punishes that approach, which Esper and Dega rely on heavily. American also gets value form that move, so I am in favor of simply punishing them for baiting us, which is why I go to 3 in control matches.
The basic deck essentially has 6 possibly finishers (Jace, Architect of Thought's ultimate lets you take their finisher and play it) and Haunted Platemail makes Mutavault and Soldier tokens much more powerful and aggressive, besides its being immune to most sorcery speed creature removal.
Blind Obedience is also a value card against Whip of Erebos/Ghost Grandpa decks, as well as aggro, and its gives another source of both lifegain and damage.
In the side, Aetherize is my response to not having another sweeper. It really crushes the tempo of aggressive decks and we usually are winning the mana war, so forcing them to replay everything they swung at us with is quite good.
The 4 D-spheres are there because so many aggro decks are running planeswalkers that are really a huge problem for us. You have to be able to lock them down. Plus Red is puking 2-3 of the same creature out turn 2 (thanks BTE), so you ought to be able to take them all in a 2-3-for-1. And Ratchet Bomb is way too slow. Turn two to get it started? By the time you can hit their two drops, they have hit you twice. Domri Rade? Its gotten busy for 2-3 turns. Ratchet Bomb is second rate and 2 D-Sphere is not enough.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
It's been pretty sweet. Makes your Elspeth tokens much better obviously...If you're running Omenspeaker it's now a 2/4, not to mention the activated ability on this thing. Makes your opponents really think about what to attack with if you have the mana up.
Also trying Gideon, Champion of Justice in the SB as a 1-of to get some extra reach in certain match-ups.
Fun to try new things when a format is fresh
Rinse and repeat. The trick is getting the tempo right for the various threats in the format.
For aggro we want a small creature. Best suggestions I've seen are omenspeaker, yoked ox and fiendstriker paladin. Paladin can be a house vs red but he trades with ash zealot and he is only mediocre against the GW aggro.
scion of vitu ghazi si in the same spot as prognostic sphinx: good stuff that may not be necessary. What deck did we previously have problems with that vhitu ghazi will help us beat?
I like the idea of 2 aetherling and 2 elspeth. You win many games by jamming them on turn 6 and taking over the board. The extra copies hedge vs thoughtseize and the weird games where your relevant spells are clumped on the bottom.
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation