It shoehorns aggressive red cards like Stormbreath Dragon and Clan Defiance into a green devotion shell.
If you look at it from the perspective of a devotion player: It's cut Arbor Colossus for Stormbreath, and runs both Garruk and Xenagod, shaving some early game plays (Satyr, Domri, Courser) to make room. The manabase is also slightly biased towards red.
What do people think? Is this just a deck that's doing well in an untuned meta? Is there something to it that either/both GrDev or Monsters should take a look at?
Just wanted to chime in and throw my full support for this build, too.
I'm surprised to see no traffic yet. I initially ran a very similar list before BNG, (dabbling in G devotion, but running Stormbreaths at the top) and dubbed this "style" or "build" a "hybrid build" or "devoted to monsters" - it really is aiming to incorporate the best of both worlds here, and does so well I believe.
My own list then, (as close as I can recall) and how I'd update it now;
And if I were going to try updating this build now, I'd configure my main 100% creatures/lands/walkers, just to take the most proactive/aggressive G1 stance (that's personal preference in this kind of deck) - Nykthos and Planeswalkers obviously benefit *a bit more* by warping the deck. I definitely agree with this pilot's decision to only mainboard 2x Clan Defiance, (not a fan of 4 Mortars main these days) and would love to try it myself/have more experience with it.
Of course, the second decklist is just me throwing around ideas, and although not many cards change, Courser of Kruphix and Xenagod definitely give an additional punch in here.
Back on point about no Mortars or Ghor-Clan;
I've always seen Ghor-Clan Rampager at his *theoretical best* in a very low curve, hyper-aggressive build. This can be very strongly evidenced in Modern by Gruul Zoo decks using Ghor-Clan literally as their top end most expensive card, - it's the functional game winning punch through for 2/3's and 3/3's, and is versatile/good because he's the pump spell with trample that cannot be countered. I know that's not Standard obviously, but the point should be stressed regardless of format, the more midrange your deck is going, the less valuable GCR becomes (the deck becomes too slow to need/want pumping combat tricks, and wins with bombs on their own instead) or conversely the faster you're aiming to be, the better/more work he can *generally* do for you.
On no Mortars main - I've already hashed my own personal opinions about running these main, but I saw in today's latest SCG article/CVM made a few good points on Mortars and shared his thoughts on wanting to take them out - http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28026_One-Point.html
"While we were preparing for Atlanta, Brian Braun-Duin and I quickly discovered that while Mizzium Mortars was very good in a few situations, it was quite poor most of the time. There were times when you got a double or triple mana guy draw and could overload a Mizzium Mortars to cripple your opponent, but most of the time it killed an Elvish Mystic or a Courser of Kruphix early and was dead later on as you got smashed by Polukranos, World Eater."
Bring on the posts folks! There's definite potential here, and it gets my stamp of approval of what I'd take to a real tournament tomorrow, at least until I've cracked/tuned RUG better. :>
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
You make some good points about rampager and what decks he fits in, as well as mortars usefulness. I do think that if you are planning on staying in GR you need to have some removal as close to unconditional as possible. Also I know that a lot of the popular evasive creatures/problem creatures die to mortars, and often times against those threats (packrat, nightveil, stormbreath, blood baron) its necessary to remove them. That being said, I like the new splash black for more unconditional (or less conditional) to help deal with those threats, as well as ones mortars does not (master of waves, desecration demon, polukranos, arbor colossus, boros reckoner). I do think we need more maindeck removal than domri fight though. Not sure what it would be if not mortars.
Regarding ghor-clan I think I agree, and that's why I like reaper in the jund version, since it's something to ramp to, removal on a stick, as well as an evasive threat. I think that the combat trick worked nicely with mutavaults, but if people don't run those, then I would also remove the rampager. I think that GR does need reach a lot of times if they don't maintain board advantage, so I'm thinking about running Nylea again as a 1-of.
About this whole half monsters/half devotion thing, I think it's almost like the worst of both decks honestly... it's still disruptable from hand removal, very weak against board wipes (especially since control is bringing # 5 post board), and it also lacks removal in itself. Not sure I like it very much
I think nylea completely replaces gcr in the mix deck. I have thought before that domri could become a sb option in this type of build because early on you want consistently draw more threats and domri takes the place of some.
I hadn't replaced arbor colossus with stormbreath because I am attached to killing flyers for the mbd mud snd gr monsters matchup, especially since I am not running domri. I concede that sbd us better v control.
When I get on my laptop will post my current list for thoughts and opinions.
So while I'm high on the 4 Domri plan, I've just run into a string of consecutive testing opponents who ALL sideboarded in Pithing Needle. Most annoying.
I would play 3 Burning-Tree Emissary and 3 Voyaging Satyr since the satyr is more important than the BTE in the Nykthos shell... Besides that, i like the idea
Well, I've decided to give this hybrid version a try for the upcoming GPT. The beatdown strategy still similar to monsters and the same time being explosive with devotion.
Since this is a devotion deck bte is very strong. If I dropped primordial I would probably slide in another arbor colossus or something. The deck filters cards fast enough that when I ran 4 of those 3 you named they really felt more like dead draws when the game dragged on. Primordial can be quite powerful and the deck usually drops it by turn 4, and has twice now at fnm dropped it on turn 2. It eats a land/enchantment/planeswalker usually and fetches me another land, also gaining me life if courser is out.
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4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Voyaging Satyr
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Polukranos, the World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
2 Clan Defiance
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Grounds
4 Temple of Abandon
3 Mountain
8 Forest
3 Nylea’s Disciple
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Gruul Charm
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
3 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Destructive Revelry
It shoehorns aggressive red cards like Stormbreath Dragon and Clan Defiance into a green devotion shell.
If you look at it from the perspective of a devotion player: It's cut Arbor Colossus for Stormbreath, and runs both Garruk and Xenagod, shaving some early game plays (Satyr, Domri, Courser) to make room. The manabase is also slightly biased towards red.
From a Gruul monsters perspective: No Ghor-Clan Rampager or Mizzium Mortars.
What do people think? Is this just a deck that's doing well in an untuned meta? Is there something to it that either/both GrDev or Monsters should take a look at?
I'm surprised to see no traffic yet. I initially ran a very similar list before BNG, (dabbling in G devotion, but running Stormbreaths at the top) and dubbed this "style" or "build" a "hybrid build" or "devoted to monsters" - it really is aiming to incorporate the best of both worlds here, and does so well I believe.
My own list then, (as close as I can recall) and how I'd update it now;
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
2x Skarrg Guildmage
4x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
2x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
3x Domri Rade
2x Xenagos, the Reveler
2x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Lands: [23]
8x Forest
4x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple of Abandon
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
And if I were going to try updating this build now, I'd configure my main 100% creatures/lands/walkers, just to take the most proactive/aggressive G1 stance (that's personal preference in this kind of deck) - Nykthos and Planeswalkers obviously benefit *a bit more* by warping the deck. I definitely agree with this pilot's decision to only mainboard 2x Clan Defiance, (not a fan of 4 Mortars main these days) and would love to try it myself/have more experience with it.
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
2x Skarrg Guildmage
4x Courser of Kruphix
4x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Xenagos, God of Revels
2x Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
3x Domri Rade
3x Xenagos, the Reveler
Lands: [24]
8x Forest
5x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple of Abandon
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Of course, the second decklist is just me throwing around ideas, and although not many cards change, Courser of Kruphix and Xenagod definitely give an additional punch in here.
Back on point about no Mortars or Ghor-Clan;
I've always seen Ghor-Clan Rampager at his *theoretical best* in a very low curve, hyper-aggressive build. This can be very strongly evidenced in Modern by Gruul Zoo decks using Ghor-Clan literally as their top end most expensive card, - it's the functional game winning punch through for 2/3's and 3/3's, and is versatile/good because he's the pump spell with trample that cannot be countered. I know that's not Standard obviously, but the point should be stressed regardless of format, the more midrange your deck is going, the less valuable GCR becomes (the deck becomes too slow to need/want pumping combat tricks, and wins with bombs on their own instead) or conversely the faster you're aiming to be, the better/more work he can *generally* do for you.
On no Mortars main - I've already hashed my own personal opinions about running these main, but I saw in today's latest SCG article/CVM made a few good points on Mortars and shared his thoughts on wanting to take them out - http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28026_One-Point.html
"While we were preparing for Atlanta, Brian Braun-Duin and I quickly discovered that while Mizzium Mortars was very good in a few situations, it was quite poor most of the time. There were times when you got a double or triple mana guy draw and could overload a Mizzium Mortars to cripple your opponent, but most of the time it killed an Elvish Mystic or a Courser of Kruphix early and was dead later on as you got smashed by Polukranos, World Eater."
Bring on the posts folks! There's definite potential here, and it gets my stamp of approval of what I'd take to a real tournament tomorrow, at least until I've cracked/tuned RUG better. :>
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=9157664&postcount=1
South Carolina State Champion: 2012
Yo dawg Frites Player, we herd you liked getting 1 for 3'd by Angel of Serenity, so we put some Angels in your Angel (Avacyn) so you can get chained while you get exiled. ANGELCEPTION.
Regarding ghor-clan I think I agree, and that's why I like reaper in the jund version, since it's something to ramp to, removal on a stick, as well as an evasive threat. I think that the combat trick worked nicely with mutavaults, but if people don't run those, then I would also remove the rampager. I think that GR does need reach a lot of times if they don't maintain board advantage, so I'm thinking about running Nylea again as a 1-of.
About this whole half monsters/half devotion thing, I think it's almost like the worst of both decks honestly... it's still disruptable from hand removal, very weak against board wipes (especially since control is bringing # 5 post board), and it also lacks removal in itself. Not sure I like it very much
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
I hadn't replaced arbor colossus with stormbreath because I am attached to killing flyers for the mbd mud snd gr monsters matchup, especially since I am not running domri. I concede that sbd us better v control.
When I get on my laptop will post my current list for thoughts and opinions.
3 Arbor Colossus
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
4 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Xenagos, God of Revels
2 Clan Defiance
4 Domri Rade
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Lands
7 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Sylvan Primordial
2 Wasteland Viper
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple of Abandon
3x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3x Mountain
9x Forest
Creatures 28
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Voyaging Satyr
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
3x Courser of Kruphix
3x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Nylea, God of The Hunt
2x Arbor Colossus
2x Xenagos, God of Revels
2x Sylvan Primordial
3x Domri Rade
2x Xenagos The Reveler
2x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
2x Mistcutter Hydra
2x Unravel the Aether
3x Mizzium Mortars
2x Boon Satry
2x Nylea's Disciple
2x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Ruric-Thar, the Unbowed
ravynok, I like your list, but would max out on Polu, Courser and Domri at the expense of BTE / Sylvan Primordial.