The decks are similar, but the wizards deck is missing the good fetch lands, and has the call to mind combo. So, I was interested in building a non-budget competitive version of the deck that includes the time warp/call to mind combo.
Strangely you haven't seen the thread as it's right below on the first page http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=256351
Recent build by Matignon who was 2nd in French Nats this weekend is also discussed there.
I guess the topic "UGR Pyromancer" did not strike me as the same deck. Clearly the later posts are, but I don't think the original post has anything to do with what the thread has turned into.
I played the budget version last Friday and went 3-1. I lost to a Vampire deck with SB Duress, Mind Sludge, and Haunting Echoes.
The deck is explosive, and most of the time you win post Time Warp...I think Matignon kinda got a little boned in the finals because he took down U/W all day long with this list (also cause I can read French and this was the gest of the match coverage).
Kiln Fiend serves as somewaht of a transformation in the SB because you can cast a bunch of cheap spells and make him huge...I wonder why there were no Distortion Strikes? Maybe it is too narrow?
Now that it is a known quantity, I think some SB development needs to happen, as the MD is awesome...
You do not really need infinite turns to win, and, admittedly, drawing both Call to Mind can be somewhat rough, but if you cast Time Warp, copy it, and have 1 Call to Mind, you should only need 4 turns to win. The combo is there, but it is subtle and not distracting. Burst Lightning and and Bolts control the early game. Mana Leak protects your Ascension from being Pulsed, which I think is the only spell that matters. I love this deck. Thank you Wizards R & D for making enough good card interactions at this point to actually create an uninteractive deck, which are my favorite kinds to play.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I've always loved this deck, and seeing it post results is quite definitely nice. I'm wondering about something, though. Everyone says you need 2 Call to Mind and Time warp with an active ascension to get going. I always thought you could just time warp, then double call to mind, the original resolves to get back timewarp, then the other resolves to get the original call to mind. Does it work that way or am I just not getting something?
You have to choose targets when announcing the spell, and Call to Mind is not in the graveyard, so it is not a legal target. When you cast the spell, Ascension's triggered ability goes on the stack and resolves first (last in, first out) and Call to mind is still not in the graveyard, so it is not a legal target. the only way the combo works is if you had previously played a call to mind...
You don't "need" the combo to win, but it is a nice way to recover if you are behind...
I was getting trashed by an Ally deck last Friday (with the budget version), and he got me down to 1. I had an active ascension and was in topdeck mode (bad place to be here)...I ripped a ponder and off the top I drew the second Call to Mind, and comboed off. I was fortunate that he didn't have a Lightning Bolt, and won the match because of it. I WAS AT 1 LIFE (sorry, had to brag a little.)
Something else I noticed: I played this with a control build of mine and sided in Leyline of Sanity. How does this deck win past it? I see no maindecked answer in the Matignon version, and kiln fiend dies to one kill spell when sided in.
Kiln Fiend shenanigans should only happen when you have enough burn to clear your path of creatures and maybe throw a little at their dome (like Burst lightning kicked and a LB = 6+8 =14, spread over 4 targets; you choose), then you cast a couple of dig spells and make him a one turn swing. This is also one way to get around the White Leyline...another thing to remember here is that the copied spells DO NOT trigger Kiln Fiend. You are not casting the copies, you are copying them...
another is Into the Roil, which is one SB modification that I was talking about. It also is good tempo, as you can bounce planeswalkers as a pseudo-Time Warp.
Also, you shouldn't need a MD answer to White Leyline. If you are playing an opponent with MD White Leylines, bully for them. You can, warrantedly, dub them Timmy McNoobscrub after you lose g1, and bring in your Kiln Fiends/Into the Roils
@Adam, neither of those spells do anything to serve out game plan. The Tendrils may be better, but have you seen all the dig spells this deck already packs?...it is ludicrous.
My answer for Leylines is Regress. I play Matignon's exact list, because...it's well, the tightest, most consistant version I've found. People talk about Jace or Foresee, but they seem outside of the decks gameplan.
Into The Roil is fine, but Regress just tested better. Sometimes, bouncing lands is the tempo you need to set up. It also gives you another spell to return for massive value with Call to Mind, I've gotten concessions from Jund and UW by using a combination of Regress, Call to Mind, and Time Warps to bounce the majority of their land.
Spreading Seas didn't do much unless I drew it in multiples, which happened alot with all our card selection, but even them sometimes they had the kind of draw that it didn't matter. Regress bounces lands, creatures, and problematic enchantments as you need for the best value. I highly recommend it out of the board, alongside Kiln Fiend, if you suspect Leylines in your opponents deck.
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My answer for Leylines is Regress. I play Matignon's exact list, because...it's well, the tightest, most consistant version I've found. People talk about Jace or Foresee, but they seem outside of the decks gameplan.
Into The Roil is fine, but Regress just tested better. Sometimes, bouncing lands is the tempo you need to set up. It also gives you another spell to return for massive value with Call to Mind, I've gotten concessions from Jund and UW by using a combination of Regress, Call to Mind, and Time Warps to bounce the majority of their land.
Spreading Seas didn't do much unless I drew it in multiples, which happened alot with all our card selection, but even them sometimes they had the kind of draw that it didn't matter. Regress bounces lands, creatures, and problematic enchantments as you need for the best value. I highly recommend it out of the board, alongside Kiln Fiend, if you suspect Leylines in your opponents deck.
I kind of agree here, especially cause Into the Roil has the "kicker" clause which can actually be distracting. Regress seems easier to pragmatically analyze because it doesn't have the option of drawing card for more mana, and can actually be better in terms of the 'bounce' options it provides...but sometimes I wanna draw cards (I understand my own greed though)...
How about Distortion Strike in the board? or is it too narrow?
I feel that Distortion Strike is slightly too narrow. Granted, you are generally bringing it in with Kiln fiend, but that only gives us four creatures. Regress feels alittle better because it actually helps fight the hate instead of giving us a 2-card combo relying on a 2 toughness creature.
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My answer for Leylines is Regress. I play Matignon's exact list, because...it's well, the tightest, most consistant version I've found. People talk about Jace or Foresee, but they seem outside of the decks gameplan.
Foresee as a four of (ah ha, punnage!) is questionable. You definitely don't want to draw multiples, and I can't imagine a scenario where you want to use *it* to activate the ascension.
But it's perfectly within the deck's gameplan. It's the best dig in mono blue, and in a combo deck that cannot be understated.
Another thing to remember is that the deck doesn't have a well established "gameplan" beyond triggering Ascension and performing shenanigans. Personally, I run a more permission-focused build, and rarely drop the Ascension before turn 4. (Exceptions being when I'm on the play or playing a deck that can't do anything about it. Pulse and O-Ring are too common to ignore when on the draw.) It has the advantage of rarely, if ever, needing to cast more than one ascension, while forfeiting the opportunity to win on turn 5. (Personally, I'm happy with turn 6.)
Also, Regress does bear testing. Personally I'm much too attached to Into the Roil but I'm interested to hear your results.
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How about Distortion Strike in the board? or is it too narrow?
Yes. It is too narrow. I've played games where Mana Leak was too narrow because my opponent was beating me to death with a 2/2 and not playing anything when I had nothing else in hand to trigger the Ascension. Your spells should be as broadly useful as possible. (Note that I'm not saying Mana Leak should be cut. It's the bee's knees. I'm just using an extreme example.)
Counter spells stop everything. It's the condom Trojan dreams of making. But like condoms, if you don't have one, you still keep on playing and take the risk. Most of us wouldn't be here if this wasn't a fact.
You definitely don't want to draw multiples, and I can't imagine a scenario where you want to use *it* to activate the ascension.
But it's perfectly within the deck's gameplan. It's the best dig in mono blue, and in a combo deck that cannot be understated.
Another thing to remember is that the deck doesn't have a well established "gameplan" beyond triggering Ascension and performing shenanigans. Personally, I run a more permission-focused build, and rarely drop the Ascension before turn 4. (Exceptions being when I'm on the draw or playing a deck that can't do anything about it. Pulse and O-Ring are too common to ignore when on the draw.) It has the advantage of rarely, if ever, needing to cast more than one ascension, while forfeiting the opportunity to win on turn 5. (Personally, I'm happy with turn 6.)
I mostly agree with what you say here. I just think forsee is too expensive for this deck. It may be part of the "game plan" but it is also too high CMC for what it does. I think our card draw (assuming Matignon's list) is pretty stellar as is.
Our biggest problem is having such linear game plan. All you have to do is play the Ascension at this point and any decent player will know what we are up to (not that most decks can do anything about it)
Also, Regress is strictly inferior to Resounding Wave. Same effect and cost, but Wave has the optional cycling. The selection does bear testing though. Personally I'm much too attached to Into the Roil but I'm interested to hear your results.
I like into the roil too
But I am going to try Regress...
Yes. It is too narrow. I've played games where Mana Leak was too narrow because my opponent was beating me to death with a 2/2 and not playing anything when I had nothing else in hand to trigger the Ascension. Your spells should be as broadly useful as possible. (Note that I'm not saying Mana Leak should be cut. It's the bee's knees. I'm just using an extreme example.)
Those were my thoughts too, but I just want to make that work so much cause I ROE draft U/R Kiln Fiend as much as possible, and Distortion Strike is titz
This looks like tons of fun to play, how well does it fare against U/W control and variants? I played Esper control vs this deck in a tournament on Sunday and didn't have much trouble beating it with duress and esper charms and mana leaks to answer their ascensions but I'd like to hear how others have done in control matches.
This looks like tons of fun to play, how well does it fare against U/W control and variants? I played Esper control vs this deck in a tournament on Sunday and didn't have much trouble beating it with duress and esper charms and mana leaks to answer their ascensions but I'd like to hear how others have done in control matches.
Against Planeswalker based control, you have almost no difficulty. Against heavy permission...well, it really revolves around sticking Ascension turn 2 in my playtests. And an Esper deck has access to a truly irritating amount of permission, hand disruption, and oblivion ring. All of which are bad for combo.
Really, it depends on the variant. Pre-M11 tapout? Giggle at it. But nobody at my shop has run it since M11, so I can only offer speculation.
Edit: And as for the fun of the deck...well. It's a lot like playing Time Sieve, except once the combo starts it doesn't fizzle. I'd still describe it as a jerk deck. Nobody likes to sit their and stare at their hand while the other player takes infinite turns...though the clever ones will make you play it out. And I found that actually playing the combo, once assembled, was much less entertaining than surviving long enough to assemble it. Nothing quite like taking 17 turns and not finding that Lightning Bolt while the room glares at you for being the last table holding up the next round.
But I'm a jerk. And it fills me with glee to say, "So, yeah, I've got the combo. Scoop?" and then hear, "...yeah, I guess."
Counter spells stop everything. It's the condom Trojan dreams of making. But like condoms, if you don't have one, you still keep on playing and take the risk. Most of us wouldn't be here if this wasn't a fact.
What *is* the combo here though? Getting Pyro's online, then Time Warp recursion until you pull a lightning bolt and just exploding them repeatedly?
I've rarely had the full blown 'combo' going. Generally just Copied bolts and burst lightnings, with a Time Warp and MAYBE a single Call to Mind, has been enough to garner a concession out of most people. Once you get a copied warp, then Call to Mind, then warp again, most people get the idea.
@ Resounding Wave
Sure it has the cycle option...but I can't cycle it in my particular decklist, and I'm not really worried about mindgaming Meddling Mage players. So far, Regress has tested very well, the ability to bounce lands proving it more useful than Into the Roil in my games against UW and Jund.
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I do not know if people have said this already but UR Pyromancer needs bounces BADLY. Regress and Into the Roil or Leyline of Sanctity will eat the deck alive. My friend played his U/W Sun Titan control deck today vs UR Pyromancer deck today and Game won the Pyromancer deck went infinite on turn 5. Game two and Three though my friend had Leyline of Sanctity out to start both games, and it was GG for the Pyromancer deck.
Sideboarding bounce seems crucial.
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So, after seeing this thread, I've decided to mess around a bit with the Pyro idea. I'm completely leaving out Time Warps, as I'm not exactly thrilled by playing combos, but the overall idea remains the same: Get Ascension online as soon as possible, and then control your way to a burning death for your opponent.
So yeah, mine looks a helluva lot different than the others posted thus far, but in playtesting this seems to work well against a variety of decks. I went 5-1 versus Jund, and against any other sort of control, I was undefeated, including Esper Control.
The mana curve in the deck tops out with Foresee, and it is relatively easy to get Pyro online with such low casting costs on the cards.
Regress is amazing once Pyro is online, bounce their creatures/planeswalkers/lands etc., and it can really put your opponent in a bad positions, allowing you to do whatever you want.
As for Foresee, a double foresee will let you go so far as 12 cards in your deck to find whatever it is that you need, whether that be Call to Mind to return your bolts, or the Bolts themselves.
Thoughts? Also, I need help on the sideboard. I'm thinking something like:
So, after seeing this thread, I've decided to mess around a bit with the Pyro idea. I'm completely leaving out Time Warps, as I'm not exactly thrilled by playing combos, but the overall idea remains the same: Get Ascension online as soon as possible, and then control your way to a burning death for your opponent.
So yeah, mine looks a helluva lot different than the others posted thus far, but in playtesting this seems to work well against a variety of decks. I went 5-1 versus Jund, and against any other sort of control, I was undefeated, including Esper Control.
The mana curve in the deck tops out with Foresee, and it is relatively easy to get Pyro online with such low casting costs on the cards.
Regress is amazing once Pyro is online, bounce their creatures/planeswalkers/lands etc., and it can really put your opponent in a bad positions, allowing you to do whatever you want.
As for Foresee, a double foresee will let you go so far as 12 cards in your deck to find whatever it is that you need, whether that be Call to Mind to return your bolts, or the Bolts themselves.
Thoughts? Also, I need help on the sideboard. I'm thinking something like:
Somehow I doubt you did that well against Esper Control, unless they don't know how to play. I've played varius matches against Pyromancers Ascension with Esper control, and I find it hard to lose, pre-board.
Duress and Inquisition both get rid of the Ascension before you even cast it, Mana Leak is there if you try to cast it, and even if it hits, theres Esper Charm to destroy it. All in all, an Esper deck should have 12-14 ways to deal with a Pyromancers Ascension. You have four copies, lets say 8 ways to play it if we count the mana leaks to protect against our hate. We still out number you. If an Esper player focus's on not letting you stick a Pyromancers ascension, he shouldn't lose.
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Somehow I doubt you did that well against Esper Control, unless they don't know how to play. I've played varius matches against Pyromancers Ascension with Esper control, and I find it hard to lose, pre-board.
Duress and Inquisition both get rid of the Ascension before you even cast it, Mana Leak is there if you try to cast it, and even if it hits, theres Esper Charm to destroy it. All in all, an Esper deck should have 12-14 ways to deal with a Pyromancers Ascension. You have four copies, lets say 8 ways to play it if we count the mana leaks to protect against our hate. We still out number you. If an Esper player focus's on not letting you stick a Pyromancers ascension, he shouldn't lose.
Depends on the Esper build. Most I run across don't have an incredible amount of hand disruption, but they are all running things like Leak and Charm, so it's still not a fun matchup.
Regardless, Time Warp isn't just a combo. It's taking 2 turns for 3UU. Time Stretch at half the mana. Even without Call to Mind it's a backbreaking play.
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Counter spells stop everything. It's the condom Trojan dreams of making. But like condoms, if you don't have one, you still keep on playing and take the risk. Most of us wouldn't be here if this wasn't a fact.
My answer for Leylines is Regress. I play Matignon's exact list, because...it's well, the tightest, most consistant version I've found. People talk about Jace or Foresee, but they seem outside of the decks gameplan.
I've found out see beyond to be the weakest link.
my version runs 3 into the roil and 4 call to mind. (with 21 lands)
I posted it a week ago in the old thread, with a board full of counter esper is really doable. their answers may outnumber your threats, you draw more of them.
Hi, everybody. I tested this deck for 2 weeks and it has best results among all current competitive t2 decks (I tested them too). With good starting hand you can win on your 4th turn. Try it and enjoy. Good luck!
Hi, everybody. I tested this deck for 2 weeks and it has best results among all current competitive t2 decks (I tested them too). With good starting hand you can win on your 4th turn. Try it and enjoy. Good luck!
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Deprive
4 Burst Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Pyromancer Ascension
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
5 Mountain
7 Island
4 Staggershock
3 Time Warp
3 Treasure Hunt
4 Negate
4 Jace Beleren
3 Earthquake
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Ravenous Trap
And this deck was recently posted on wizards.com for a building on a budget article.
11 Island
7 Mountain
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Call to Mind
4 Foresee
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Spreading Seas
4 Time Warp
1 Burst Lightning
4 Earthquake
4 Jace Beleren
2 Plains
4 Rest for the Weary
The decks are similar, but the wizards deck is missing the good fetch lands, and has the call to mind combo. So, I was interested in building a non-budget competitive version of the deck that includes the time warp/call to mind combo.
Here's what I was thinking:
3 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Terramorphic Expanse
5 Mountain
7 Island
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
3 Deprive
4 Mana Leak
4 Call to Mind
4 Foresee
3 Time Warp
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Staggershock
2 Tectonic Edge
3 Earthquake
4 Jace Beleren
2 Plains
4 Rest for the Weary
What do you guys think?
Recent build by Matignon who was 2nd in French Nats this weekend is also discussed there.
here is Matignon's list
7 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Halimar Depths
22 Land
0 Creatures
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 See Beyond
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Treasure Hunt
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Call to Mind
4 Mana Leak
4 Time Warp
38 Spells
2 Flashfreeze
2 Jace Beleren
3 Negate
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Spreading Seas
15 Cards
I played the budget version last Friday and went 3-1. I lost to a Vampire deck with SB Duress, Mind Sludge, and Haunting Echoes.
The deck is explosive, and most of the time you win post Time Warp...I think Matignon kinda got a little boned in the finals because he took down U/W all day long with this list (also cause I can read French and this was the gest of the match coverage).
Kiln Fiend serves as somewaht of a transformation in the SB because you can cast a bunch of cheap spells and make him huge...I wonder why there were no Distortion Strikes? Maybe it is too narrow?
Now that it is a known quantity, I think some SB development needs to happen, as the MD is awesome...
You do not really need infinite turns to win, and, admittedly, drawing both Call to Mind can be somewhat rough, but if you cast Time Warp, copy it, and have 1 Call to Mind, you should only need 4 turns to win. The combo is there, but it is subtle and not distracting. Burst Lightning and and Bolts control the early game. Mana Leak protects your Ascension from being Pulsed, which I think is the only spell that matters. I love this deck. Thank you Wizards R & D for making enough good card interactions at this point to actually create an uninteractive deck, which are my favorite kinds to play.
Ive recently picked this deck up as it has a great UW matchup and amazing Destructive Force matchup.
You have to choose targets when announcing the spell, and Call to Mind is not in the graveyard, so it is not a legal target. When you cast the spell, Ascension's triggered ability goes on the stack and resolves first (last in, first out) and Call to mind is still not in the graveyard, so it is not a legal target. the only way the combo works is if you had previously played a call to mind...
You don't "need" the combo to win, but it is a nice way to recover if you are behind...
I was getting trashed by an Ally deck last Friday (with the budget version), and he got me down to 1. I had an active ascension and was in topdeck mode (bad place to be here)...I ripped a ponder and off the top I drew the second Call to Mind, and comboed off. I was fortunate that he didn't have a Lightning Bolt, and won the match because of it. I WAS AT 1 LIFE (sorry, had to brag a little.)
Kiln Fiend shenanigans should only happen when you have enough burn to clear your path of creatures and maybe throw a little at their dome (like Burst lightning kicked and a LB = 6+8 =14, spread over 4 targets; you choose), then you cast a couple of dig spells and make him a one turn swing. This is also one way to get around the White Leyline...another thing to remember here is that the copied spells DO NOT trigger Kiln Fiend. You are not casting the copies, you are copying them...
another is Into the Roil, which is one SB modification that I was talking about. It also is good tempo, as you can bounce planeswalkers as a pseudo-Time Warp.
Also, you shouldn't need a MD answer to White Leyline. If you are playing an opponent with MD White Leylines, bully for them. You can, warrantedly, dub them Timmy McNoobscrub after you lose g1, and bring in your Kiln Fiends/Into the Roils
@Adam, neither of those spells do anything to serve out game plan. The Tendrils may be better, but have you seen all the dig spells this deck already packs?...it is ludicrous.
Into The Roil is fine, but Regress just tested better. Sometimes, bouncing lands is the tempo you need to set up. It also gives you another spell to return for massive value with Call to Mind, I've gotten concessions from Jund and UW by using a combination of Regress, Call to Mind, and Time Warps to bounce the majority of their land.
Spreading Seas didn't do much unless I drew it in multiples, which happened alot with all our card selection, but even them sometimes they had the kind of draw that it didn't matter. Regress bounces lands, creatures, and problematic enchantments as you need for the best value. I highly recommend it out of the board, alongside Kiln Fiend, if you suspect Leylines in your opponents deck.
Current Standard:
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Current Legacy:
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UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
I kind of agree here, especially cause Into the Roil has the "kicker" clause which can actually be distracting. Regress seems easier to pragmatically analyze because it doesn't have the option of drawing card for more mana, and can actually be better in terms of the 'bounce' options it provides...but sometimes I wanna draw cards (I understand my own greed though)...
How about Distortion Strike in the board? or is it too narrow?
Current Standard:
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Current Legacy:
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UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Foresee as a four of (ah ha, punnage!) is questionable. You definitely don't want to draw multiples, and I can't imagine a scenario where you want to use *it* to activate the ascension.
But it's perfectly within the deck's gameplan. It's the best dig in mono blue, and in a combo deck that cannot be understated.
Another thing to remember is that the deck doesn't have a well established "gameplan" beyond triggering Ascension and performing shenanigans. Personally, I run a more permission-focused build, and rarely drop the Ascension before turn 4. (Exceptions being when I'm on the play or playing a deck that can't do anything about it. Pulse and O-Ring are too common to ignore when on the draw.) It has the advantage of rarely, if ever, needing to cast more than one ascension, while forfeiting the opportunity to win on turn 5. (Personally, I'm happy with turn 6.)
Also, Regress does bear testing. Personally I'm much too attached to Into the Roil but I'm interested to hear your results.
Yes. It is too narrow. I've played games where Mana Leak was too narrow because my opponent was beating me to death with a 2/2 and not playing anything when I had nothing else in hand to trigger the Ascension. Your spells should be as broadly useful as possible. (Note that I'm not saying Mana Leak should be cut. It's the bee's knees. I'm just using an extreme example.)
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I mostly agree with what you say here. I just think forsee is too expensive for this deck. It may be part of the "game plan" but it is also too high CMC for what it does. I think our card draw (assuming Matignon's list) is pretty stellar as is.
Our biggest problem is having such linear game plan. All you have to do is play the Ascension at this point and any decent player will know what we are up to (not that most decks can do anything about it)
I like into the roil too
But I am going to try Regress...
Those were my thoughts too, but I just want to make that work so much cause I ROE draft U/R Kiln Fiend as much as possible, and Distortion Strike is titz
Against Planeswalker based control, you have almost no difficulty. Against heavy permission...well, it really revolves around sticking Ascension turn 2 in my playtests. And an Esper deck has access to a truly irritating amount of permission, hand disruption, and oblivion ring. All of which are bad for combo.
Really, it depends on the variant. Pre-M11 tapout? Giggle at it. But nobody at my shop has run it since M11, so I can only offer speculation.
Edit: And as for the fun of the deck...well. It's a lot like playing Time Sieve, except once the combo starts it doesn't fizzle. I'd still describe it as a jerk deck. Nobody likes to sit their and stare at their hand while the other player takes infinite turns...though the clever ones will make you play it out. And I found that actually playing the combo, once assembled, was much less entertaining than surviving long enough to assemble it. Nothing quite like taking 17 turns and not finding that Lightning Bolt while the room glares at you for being the last table holding up the next round.
But I'm a jerk. And it fills me with glee to say, "So, yeah, I've got the combo. Scoop?" and then hear, "...yeah, I guess."
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That's pretty much it, you go infinite with time warp turns, then continue pulling lightning bolts out of everywhere and hitting for 6 each time.
I've rarely had the full blown 'combo' going. Generally just Copied bolts and burst lightnings, with a Time Warp and MAYBE a single Call to Mind, has been enough to garner a concession out of most people. Once you get a copied warp, then Call to Mind, then warp again, most people get the idea.
@ Resounding Wave
Sure it has the cycle option...but I can't cycle it in my particular decklist, and I'm not really worried about mindgaming Meddling Mage players. So far, Regress has tested very well, the ability to bounce lands proving it more useful than Into the Roil in my games against UW and Jund.
Current Standard:
Boros
Current Legacy:
Merfolk
UW Stoneforge
MonoUDelver(in progress)
Sideboarding bounce seems crucial.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Here is my take on the deck:
4x Preordain
4x Ponder
3x See Beyond
4x Foresee
Control
4x Mana Leak
4x Negate
4x Regress
4x Pyromancer Ascension
4x Lightning Bolt
Land
3x Halimar Depths
4x Scalding Tarn
8x Island
7x Mountain
So yeah, mine looks a helluva lot different than the others posted thus far, but in playtesting this seems to work well against a variety of decks. I went 5-1 versus Jund, and against any other sort of control, I was undefeated, including Esper Control.
The mana curve in the deck tops out with Foresee, and it is relatively easy to get Pyro online with such low casting costs on the cards.
Regress is amazing once Pyro is online, bounce their creatures/planeswalkers/lands etc., and it can really put your opponent in a bad positions, allowing you to do whatever you want.
As for Foresee, a double foresee will let you go so far as 12 cards in your deck to find whatever it is that you need, whether that be Call to Mind to return your bolts, or the Bolts themselves.
Thoughts? Also, I need help on the sideboard. I'm thinking something like:
4x Spreading Seas
4x Kiln Fiend
4x Unsummon
Somehow I doubt you did that well against Esper Control, unless they don't know how to play. I've played varius matches against Pyromancers Ascension with Esper control, and I find it hard to lose, pre-board.
Duress and Inquisition both get rid of the Ascension before you even cast it, Mana Leak is there if you try to cast it, and even if it hits, theres Esper Charm to destroy it. All in all, an Esper deck should have 12-14 ways to deal with a Pyromancers Ascension. You have four copies, lets say 8 ways to play it if we count the mana leaks to protect against our hate. We still out number you. If an Esper player focus's on not letting you stick a Pyromancers ascension, he shouldn't lose.
I hate when people change their avatar's. That's how I identify most people, not by names.
Depends on the Esper build. Most I run across don't have an incredible amount of hand disruption, but they are all running things like Leak and Charm, so it's still not a fun matchup.
Regardless, Time Warp isn't just a combo. It's taking 2 turns for 3UU. Time Stretch at half the mana. Even without Call to Mind it's a backbreaking play.
My Trade Thread!
What gets removed to put the Regress in the deck?
I've found out see beyond to be the weakest link.
my version runs 3 into the roil and 4 call to mind. (with 21 lands)
I posted it a week ago in the old thread, with a board full of counter esper is really doable. their answers may outnumber your threats, you draw more of them.
4 Pyromancer Ascension
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Into the Roil
4 Negate
4 Mana Leak
4 Call to Mind
4 Time Warp
3 Evolving Wilds
3 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Mountain
7 Island
4 Spell Pierce
4 Flashfreeze
4 Burst Lightning
3 Telemin Performance
Do you have any tournament reports?