I'm not sure where I could find the old thread. So now we got combo (polymorph and time sieve), aggro (RDW, mythic conscription), midrange (jund and naya), control (U/W and superfriends), the only thing I find missing is aggro-control (something close to tempo-thresh or merfolk). I think this format is pretty healthy (please do NOT talk about money).
P.S. Any decks that fit into the aggro-control variation?
All the combo decks SUCK. Well ... they win in frustrating, non-fun-combo ways. IMHO. Time Sieve feels like Turbofog and Polymorph feels like Stiflenaught. BOOOOOO.
Also, I was playing aggro-control a bit ago ... UW with aven mimeomancer[!!!] and stuff. It's decent-ish. Nobody plays it though. Like, four PtE's, Emerge Unscathed, Path, Negate, Deprive, Looters that you turn into Birds, Coralhelm Commander, possibly Steppe Lynx. ...
I think that in general the format's fairly healthy. Which is a very good thing.
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my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
All the combo decks SUCK. Well ... they win in frustrating, non-fun-combo ways. IMHO. Time Sieve feels like Turbofog and Polymorph feels like Stiflenaught. BOOOOOO.
Also, I was playing aggro-control a bit ago ... UW with aven mimeomancer[!!!] and stuff. It's decent-ish. Nobody plays it though. Like, four PtE's, Emerge Unscathed, Path, Negate, Deprive, Looters that you turn into Birds, Coralhelm Commander, possibly Steppe Lynx. ...
I think that in general the format's fairly healthy. Which is a very good thing.
The format could use a little love for aggro. We have RDW which is inconsistent, and Bant is more of a midrange if it doesn't go off early
White has such nice cards for creatures, if only there was away around wrath for white. Oh well.
I think the entire format right now is more or less mid-range decks, with a dash of control, combo, and aggro. Bant is mid-range with the possibility of an explosive start, Jund and Naya are both mid-range. But out of the heavy hitters in standard, only UW(r) isn't mid-range (and it's control). RDW is certainly aggro, but it's not really tier 1. Similarly, Polymorph plays more like a control deck with a combo finish, and even then I don't think it's tier 1 either.
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I was pretty excited for Modern.
Not so much anymore.
Marshal's Anthem is the way around Wrath effects.. dur. Especailly if you play your own Martial Coup. Look at me I'm attacking for 10! Yay =P Also I hope M11 does give love to aggro decks. RDW can't be tier 1 because of Kor Firewalker IMO. If they play that, you just die. Burn spells do 1 less and if they play 2 you're out completely. Red would have to be splashed with something.
There needs to be more Planeswalker hate than Pithing Needle and Vampire Hexmage.
I'm not sure where I could find the old thread. So now we got combo (polymorph and time sieve), aggro (RDW, mythic conscription), midrange (jund and naya), control (U/W and superfriends), the only thing I find missing is aggro-control (something close to tempo-thresh or merfolk). I think this format is pretty healthy (please do NOT talk about money).
P.S. Any decks that fit into the aggro-control variation?
The creature oriented version of valakut ramp is kind of aggro-control. Anyway I agree that the format is healthy.
Marshal's Anthem is the way around Wrath effects.. dur. Especailly if you play your own Martial Coup. Look at me I'm attacking for 10! Yay =P Also I hope M11 does give love to aggro decks. RDW can't be tier 1 because of Kor Firewalker IMO. If they play that, you just die. Burn spells do 1 less and if they play 2 you're out completely. Red would have to be splashed with something.
There needs to be more Planeswalker hate than Pithing Needle and Vampire Hexmage.
Doesn't have to be red, Green, white, and black are all good candidates.
The format could be better. It could be worse. It works in such a way that, with the exception of Devastating Red, people are either playing decks that run Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Vengevine. Heck, some people are even running decks with both of them. Similarly to the manner in which Baneslayer Angel dominated Standard prior to Zendikar, Standard is now currently dominated by these two powerhouses and the archetypes that incorporate them.
I think some versions of Vampires could fit the aggro-control variant. Also after playing against Next Level Bant, there were some instances where it just aggroed out with Vengevine and some where it just went Elspeth, Jace, Gideon and locked it down.
i honestly wouldn't call polymorph combo, really the only true combo decks in standard are open the vaults and warpworld. well unearth is combo but very inconsistent
its decently healthy but alot of decks are really auto pilot.
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Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
i honestly wouldn't call polymorph combo, really the only true combo decks in standard are open the vaults and warpworld. well unearth is combo but very inconsistent
its decently healthy but alot of decks are really auto pilot.
The format could be better. It could be worse. It works in such a way that, with the exception of Devastating Red, people are either playing decks that run Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Vengevine.
What i think what we need right now is some reprints of the overpriced card, for cascade to just go away, and a few better combo pieces. Oh we need some more planeswalker hate too in the new sets (20 bucks o ring will be back :P). as of right now? its ok, it was a lot worse, iam just hoping it dont turn back to bad
I think control is a little too strong. I'd love to see more planeswalker hate as utility cards. Something like
2G
Instant
Destroy target non-creature permanent. If a land is destroyed this way it's controller searches his/her library for a basic land and puts that card on to the battlefield then shuffles their library.
Or maybe just non-creature non-land permanent. Or maybe 3G. IDK. More walker hate that isn't a dead card if they don't have one.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
The two best cards against Planeswalkers in standard are Vengevine and Bloodbraid Elf. The format is healthy thanks to UW/UWr being viable. I do worry about how creature based strategies will hold up post rotation, but I guess we'll see soon enough.
I'm not sure where I could find the old thread. So now we got combo (polymorph and time sieve), aggro (RDW, mythic conscription), midrange (jund and naya), control (U/W and superfriends), the only thing I find missing is aggro-control (something close to tempo-thresh or merfolk). I think this format is pretty healthy (please do NOT talk about money).
Actually you have UW Control, Mythic and Jund. None of the others you listed have shown any significant ability to place alongside those 3. Of the last 15 1st place PTQ decks, 6 were Mythic, 6 were UW/UWR control and 3 were Jund. 0 were anything else. You don't want to talk about money, but that's impossible to ignore completely when you are discussing the health of the format. The current format is "Expensive vs. Expensive vs. Boring." 3 decks, no fun, nuff said.
There are good anti planeswalker control cards(oblivion ring, hexmage, into the roil/negate) just not in Red or Green which just happen to be the classic aggro colors and that aren't running a ton of planeswalkers.
That is because planeswalkers for the most part are control elements. They slow the game down if you have to target them. They best suit strategies where they can be protected. For red and green to sit around and defend, their planeswalker has to be pretty much broken good. Ie capable of doing as much damage or improving the board position more than an all out attack would or it has to work under a very short window like Garruk or more so Sarkhan the Mad.
Red has burn so I feel less worried about them although burning out Gideon Jura is next to impossible but not his defenders.
Green is the color that has been shorted in this department. They have to attack through or spend 6 mana to destroy a planeswalker. This the color that classically could destroy any non-creature threat. Vengevine isn't bad as an anti-wall of omens card. But green could use a new mechanic perhaps like deathtouch that worked on planeswalkers (although WOTC seems all their interactions to be like player interactions), or planeswalker walk.. ie if you are attacking a planeswalker cannot be blocked (obviously for small creature like a 2/1, but probably too narrow), or even something that if it hit it caused activated ability costs to increase by 1. Although if that were an aura that sounds very white/blue. There are million things they can do narrow to very general but they need to give something to green and perhaps red.
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Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
All current standard decks are boring and autopilot. The format is dead in my eyes.
autopilot? realy? look at UW control or next level bant - they are very hard to play right and are skilltesting. or jund, which is maybe easy to play but hard to build - you need to have enough cards against UW, mythic, vengevine, next level bant, polymorph AND rdw, you need to choose if u want to be more aggro or more midrange etc... in my eyes the format is great and takes alot of thought.
also, look at how many decks u have - mythic, jund, UW, UWr, RDW, polymorph, grixis and more tier 1.5/2 decks.
no matter what, people will always find something to complain about. before ZEN, it was faeries and 5cc. after ZEN, it was jund. after ROE, its the prices. i find it funny
I agree. The only thing wrong with the format is there is not enough relevant planeswalker hate. I want something along the lines of Celestial Purge that hits white and blue permanents. Pithing Needle is ok, but it's definitely not great.
autopilot? realy? look at UW control or next level bant - they are very hard to play right and are skilltesting. or jund, which is maybe easy to play but hard to build - you need to have enough cards against UW, mythic, vengevine, next level bant, polymorph AND rdw, you need to choose if u want to be more aggro or more midrange etc... in my eyes the format is great and takes alot of thought.
also, look at how many decks u have - mythic, jund, UW, UWr, RDW, polymorph, grixis and more tier 1.5/2 decks.
no matter what, people will always find something to complain about. before ZEN, it was faeries and 5cc. after ZEN, it was jund. after ROE, its the prices. i find it funny
You need to play more practice games. No standard deck is hard to play. They basically all play themselves.
UW, Bant, Jund, polymorph etc. are all incredibly easy to play. No real decision making involved with any of them.
You need to play more practice games. No standard deck is hard to play. They basically all play themselves.
UW, Bant, Jund, polymorph etc. are all incredibly easy to play. No real decision making involved with any of them.
I disagree. Most of the decks have a lot of relevant decisions. Some of the matchups aren't incredibly interactive, but there is a lot of decision making going on that does matter.
You need to play more practice games. No standard deck is hard to play. They basically all play themselves.
UW, Bant, Jund, polymorph etc. are all incredibly easy to play. No real decision making involved with any of them.
you expect people to take you seriously with bs statements like this? Try playing vs skilled players and see what happens. The only deck there that is easy to play is jund, even then i see people making play errors with it all the time.
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P.S. Any decks that fit into the aggro-control variation?
Also, I was playing aggro-control a bit ago ... UW with aven mimeomancer[!!!] and stuff. It's decent-ish. Nobody plays it though. Like, four PtE's, Emerge Unscathed, Path, Negate, Deprive, Looters that you turn into Birds, Coralhelm Commander, possibly Steppe Lynx. ...
I think that in general the format's fairly healthy. Which is a very good thing.
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
The format could use a little love for aggro. We have RDW which is inconsistent, and Bant is more of a midrange if it doesn't go off early
White has such nice cards for creatures, if only there was away around wrath for white. Oh well.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
Not so much anymore.
There needs to be more Planeswalker hate than Pithing Needle and Vampire Hexmage.
JAMMIT DIM! I'm a DOCTOR not a DECKBUILDER!
The creature oriented version of valakut ramp is kind of aggro-control. Anyway I agree that the format is healthy.
Doesn't have to be red, Green, white, and black are all good candidates.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
Standard:
:symu::symb::symw:Solar Flare:symw::symb::symu:
Commander:
:symb::symw:Ghost Council of Orzhova:symw::symb:
Linger on death's door and risk being invited in.
You forgot about Maelstrom Pulse, Oblivion Ring, Admonition Angel, Mold Shambler, All is Dust, and Planar Cleansing. Just because it's CMC>6 doesn't mean it's not hate.
T2:?
MWSTesting:URRuneflare Trap
My Trade Thread
its decently healthy but alot of decks are really auto pilot.
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
I'd call Time Sieve combo too.
This, except it's Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Lightning Bolt. (Good) Jund doesn't run Vengevine.
2G
Instant
Destroy target non-creature permanent. If a land is destroyed this way it's controller searches his/her library for a basic land and puts that card on to the battlefield then shuffles their library.
Or maybe just non-creature non-land permanent. Or maybe 3G. IDK. More walker hate that isn't a dead card if they don't have one.
No, it just means it's unplayable. *rimshot*
Actually you have UW Control, Mythic and Jund. None of the others you listed have shown any significant ability to place alongside those 3. Of the last 15 1st place PTQ decks, 6 were Mythic, 6 were UW/UWR control and 3 were Jund. 0 were anything else. You don't want to talk about money, but that's impossible to ignore completely when you are discussing the health of the format. The current format is "Expensive vs. Expensive vs. Boring." 3 decks, no fun, nuff said.
That is because planeswalkers for the most part are control elements. They slow the game down if you have to target them. They best suit strategies where they can be protected. For red and green to sit around and defend, their planeswalker has to be pretty much broken good. Ie capable of doing as much damage or improving the board position more than an all out attack would or it has to work under a very short window like Garruk or more so Sarkhan the Mad.
Red has burn so I feel less worried about them although burning out Gideon Jura is next to impossible but not his defenders.
Green is the color that has been shorted in this department. They have to attack through or spend 6 mana to destroy a planeswalker. This the color that classically could destroy any non-creature threat. Vengevine isn't bad as an anti-wall of omens card. But green could use a new mechanic perhaps like deathtouch that worked on planeswalkers (although WOTC seems all their interactions to be like player interactions), or planeswalker walk.. ie if you are attacking a planeswalker cannot be blocked (obviously for small creature like a 2/1, but probably too narrow), or even something that if it hit it caused activated ability costs to increase by 1. Although if that were an aura that sounds very white/blue. There are million things they can do narrow to very general but they need to give something to green and perhaps red.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
autopilot? realy? look at UW control or next level bant - they are very hard to play right and are skilltesting. or jund, which is maybe easy to play but hard to build - you need to have enough cards against UW, mythic, vengevine, next level bant, polymorph AND rdw, you need to choose if u want to be more aggro or more midrange etc... in my eyes the format is great and takes alot of thought.
also, look at how many decks u have - mythic, jund, UW, UWr, RDW, polymorph, grixis and more tier 1.5/2 decks.
no matter what, people will always find something to complain about. before ZEN, it was faeries and 5cc. after ZEN, it was jund. after ROE, its the prices. i find it funny
yoavrrr
I agree. The only thing wrong with the format is there is not enough relevant planeswalker hate. I want something along the lines of Celestial Purge that hits white and blue permanents. Pithing Needle is ok, but it's definitely not great.
You need to play more practice games. No standard deck is hard to play. They basically all play themselves.
UW, Bant, Jund, polymorph etc. are all incredibly easy to play. No real decision making involved with any of them.
I disagree. Most of the decks have a lot of relevant decisions. Some of the matchups aren't incredibly interactive, but there is a lot of decision making going on that does matter.
you expect people to take you seriously with bs statements like this? Try playing vs skilled players and see what happens. The only deck there that is easy to play is jund, even then i see people making play errors with it all the time.