Our main problem, as stated before, is RDW...the fact we can get this deck quick enough to hold against Jund and not go out of rotation is amazing
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I really feel like the Kozilek is weak here, recycling or not...at the speed the deck is going, recycling is entirely unneccesary. SB if there's any chance of seeing something turbo-fog esque, but otherwise, I wouldn't maindeck it. Drawing that would be a dead card far too often, at least as I see it.
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I run it as a one of for that reason that and a good bit of players here run planeswalker control which tends to drag games out
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I have been looking over my list, and I'm not sure I like the singelton Kozilek, the Eyes and running 3 Temples. I was thinking of moving the Eyes to the SB in place of Momentus Fall and droping the Temples down to 2. That would make 4 spots open in the deck and I was thinking of putting in 4 Growth Spasms in the empty slots. I'm just not sure if this deck needs ramp and the 3cmc slot is clogged up as it is. Or putting 2 Skitter Invasions back in along with another Kazandu Refuge and Raging Ravine to make up for the loss in the mana base, not really sure what to do. Or if I put the Inasions in pumping the Temples back up to 3, I dont know. Also, I've been looking around for a first turn play, besides bolt, that works in this deck and cannot find a decent one. Any suggestions on what to do with the open slots?
Second Banefire or Comet Storm is what I would run over Kozi in a agro meta
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I have been running this deck quite a bit lately, and it is awesome. Very fun deck, and much props to the OP. But I have a few questions: I'm guessing that we just sit around for 4-5 turns until we have enough spawn for a beastmaster/monument/overrun win correct? I just ask cause i fin myself doing just that: spending turns 1-4 totally ingorant of my opponent, just concentrating on creating tokens. I'm just wondering if this is the correct way to play this deck, kinda silly i know
Yea, you take it to the dome untill you can win by overpowering them with your spawns
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And to odorofdeath - Thats how the deck has been palying for me too. Theres been a few times where I've had to stray from that path but the deck is solid enough to win games. There is enough ways to win if the game goes longer with the monuments, overruns, broodwardens, burn spells and the bigger eldrazi.
I would replace Spawnsire with Comet Storm....honestly that four mana to make some spawns isn't worth it. Spawnsire will be one of the first targets once it comes out because of that 20 costing ability
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So bowl, I see your not running Growth Spasm; any particular reason? So far i've found it kinda meh... its seems to slow down more than anything else. Also how are the predators working?
Also you guys repeatedly of talking about having 10 spawns out on turns 4-5... im just wondering how you do that. I usually have 3ish around there... I would love some pointers on my deck., Thanks
You need a decent hand...second turn Nest Invader, third turn Brood Birthing, turn after Brood Birthing and fifth turn Skittering Invasion
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I dont care for rapacious one because he's slow, I run Siege-Gang Commander over him, he makes more tokens right when he comes in and he can shock away problems.
As for your deck, you don't have enough token producers. Most of the decks I see run 4 invaders (which youve got there), 4 predator, and 4 hatchers. Those guys power out tokens like no ones business. Basically how we get so many tokens is T1 forest birds, T2 land invader / spasm, T3 land, birthing x2 for 6 or birthing and predator for 4 tokens and a 3/3, then turn 4 you drop a hatcher for three, or if you've got the tokens, just drop an ascension for the win.
I have been brewing up this deck, and will be testing soon, once I get my awakening zones, and I am wondering why you wouldn't run BBE in here.
He is the best creature in standard.
I am also wondering why some aren't running Lightning Bolt either.
We can't goldfish out a win every game, we should be playing cards that are strong on their own.
If people on this thread are going to say 'well that dies to removal' to every suggestion, they need to realize that going 'all in' on spawn production can bite us in the end.
Anyway, I just snagged some Coat of Arms. If we play it like an overrun, (play it, then win) who cares how much it affects the opponent.
But I do like Beastmaster's in here as well, so this will all need to be tested...and Garruk too, of course.
This is the skeleton of what seems good in here, to me at least. (In the eyes of someone looking to make a competitive deck.
And others I have yet to figure out. (World at War as a 1 of, brutal?)
Bramblesnap DOES seem good in here. So WHAT if they use removal on your two drop creature? That is good, because that is all the less chance they use it on Broodwarden or something that is actually more threatening. You get to use your spawn to make a little TRAMPLE dude huge.
So all told, here is what I will probably end up sleeving up:
Why is Spawning Breath everywhere again? Is this to combat Polymorph decks or something?
Anyway, I decided that a transformational SB might be reasonable here. Turning into big mana (with Avenger to dump 0/1s out in preparation for a huge overrun effect...) could be a reasonable change G2.
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Odorofdeath - I dont like the Growth Spasms because like you said, they are too slow. This deck has better turn 2 plays such as Awakening Zone. Also, the deck dosent need to ramp into much, of pump spell can be played on turn 4 or 5 with Garruk, the Coat or the Monument.
Urza - I like some of your points, but theres way too many for me to touch right now. When I get home from work this afternoon I'd like to ask you your thoughts on some of your card choices.
Growth Spasms is actually really helpful though Bowl, it's won me a few games already...if I didn't drop it I woulda hit a mana pocket
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Urza, brood birthing is awesomesauce and should be an auto 4-of. Spawning breath is ok, occasionaly eot sniping hierarchs/birds but usually pinging for 1. Definitely could be something better.
That stratagy is why I run Banefire. Sac a bunch of tokens and burn their face. And I like Banefire because if your sacing 5 or more tokens they can't prevent the damage. Kinda the same idea as your card but with evasion.
That is actually a really interesting combo there Atobe....its one of those definate sideboard for stall decks or draw decks
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Urza, brood birthing is awesomesauce and should be an auto 4-of. Spawning breath is ok, occasionaly eot sniping hierarchs/birds but usually pinging for 1. Definitely could be something better.
Yeah, realized Bramblesnap isn't so hot in here. Birthing is going in.
Don't laugh too hard. Instead of playing a big fatty Eldrazi, you play this with some spawn tokens out, sacrifice them and win the game.
This is serious stuff.
Totally legit, the only limiting factor being the size of the opponent's hand.
You basically have to be able to kill them the turn you drop it to be worthwhile IMO, and I would have to test the deck more to see how often that would be.
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Atobe->It stops the new Training Ground decks pretty solid in their tracks when they draw their deck from Mana Springing they try to drop their win con and in response sac one or two tokens for game haha..Turbofog and any stall deck really it stops because stall decks hold counters in hand
Urza->As bendable as these decks are they are picky at the same time, it has to played..in my opinion, just right or you are screwed. These arn't really decks with much lee way on misplays
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Atobe->It stops the new Training Ground decks pretty solid in their tracks when they draw their deck from Mana Springing they try to drop their win con and in response sac one or two tokens for game haha..Turbofog and any stall deck really it stops because stall decks hold counters in hand
Do any of these decks actually exist?
Why are we worrying about fringe decks anyway?
(P.S. Turbofog is dead)
Urza->As bendable as these decks are they are picky at the same time, it has to played..in my opinion, just right or you are screwed. These arn't really decks with much lee way on misplays
What are you responding to? I'm really having trouble following your line of thought.
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I got a friend who runs Turbofog haha~ and you were saying Bramblesnap doesn't work in this deck, I was simply agreeing
Edit:I am simply anticipating what might show up at the local card shop in the next few weeks...it would be funny to see someone lose because of their stupidity against a spawn deck~<3
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4 Nest Invaders
4 Kozileks Predator
2 Emrakuls Hatcher
2 Rapacious One
4 Broodwarden
2 Hand of Emrakul
1 Spawnsire of Ulamog
Spells 18
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Awakening Zone
4 Brood Birthing
2 Eldrazi Monument
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Banefire
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Kazandu Refuge
2 Raging Ravine
3 Eldrazi Temple
5 Forest
5 Mountian
4 Spawning Breath
1 Banefire
2 Eye of Ugin
2 Coat of Arms
2 Skittering Invasion
2 All is Dust
1 Spawnsire of Ulamog
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
And to odorofdeath - Thats how the deck has been palying for me too. Theres been a few times where I've had to stray from that path but the deck is solid enough to win games. There is enough ways to win if the game goes longer with the monuments, overruns, broodwardens, burn spells and the bigger eldrazi.
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6 Forest
6 Mountain
2 Rootbound Crag
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4 Raging Ravine
4 Nest Invader
4 Broodwarden
1 Emrakul's Hatcher
2 Rapacious One
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4 Awakening Zone
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4 Brood Birthing
4 Spawning Breath
4 Beastmaster Ascension
2 Banefire
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2 All Is Dust
2 Skittering Invasion
Also you guys repeatedly of talking about having 10 spawns out on turns 4-5... im just wondering how you do that. I usually have 3ish around there... I would love some pointers on my deck., Thanks
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As for your deck, you don't have enough token producers. Most of the decks I see run 4 invaders (which youve got there), 4 predator, and 4 hatchers. Those guys power out tokens like no ones business. Basically how we get so many tokens is T1 forest birds, T2 land invader / spasm, T3 land, birthing x2 for 6 or birthing and predator for 4 tokens and a 3/3, then turn 4 you drop a hatcher for three, or if you've got the tokens, just drop an ascension for the win.
He is the best creature in standard.
I am also wondering why some aren't running Lightning Bolt either.
We can't goldfish out a win every game, we should be playing cards that are strong on their own.
If people on this thread are going to say 'well that dies to removal' to every suggestion, they need to realize that going 'all in' on spawn production can bite us in the end.
Anyway, I just snagged some Coat of Arms. If we play it like an overrun, (play it, then win) who cares how much it affects the opponent.
But I do like Beastmaster's in here as well, so this will all need to be tested...and Garruk too, of course.
This is the skeleton of what seems good in here, to me at least. (In the eyes of someone looking to make a competitive deck.
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Growth Spasm
4 Nest Invader
4 Broodwarden
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Awakening Zone
As for the rest, I will likely be playing some combination of the following:
And others I have yet to figure out. (World at War as a 1 of, brutal?)
Bramblesnap DOES seem good in here. So WHAT if they use removal on your two drop creature? That is good, because that is all the less chance they use it on Broodwarden or something that is actually more threatening. You get to use your spawn to make a little TRAMPLE dude huge.
So all told, here is what I will probably end up sleeving up:
4 Growth Spasm
4 Nest Invader
4 Broodwarden
4 Bramblesnap
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Awakening Zone
3 Beastmaster Ascension
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Comet Storm
4 Tectonic Edge
7 Forest
7 Mountain
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Ulmalog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Artisan of Kozilek
2 Eldrazi Temple
2 Terastadon
2 Avenger of Zendikar
4 Staggershock
2 Coat of Arms
Why is Spawning Breath everywhere again? Is this to combat Polymorph decks or something?
Anyway, I decided that a transformational SB might be reasonable here. Turning into big mana (with Avenger to dump 0/1s out in preparation for a huge overrun effect...) could be a reasonable change G2.
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Urza - I like some of your points, but theres way too many for me to touch right now. When I get home from work this afternoon I'd like to ask you your thoughts on some of your card choices.
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Yeah, realized Bramblesnap isn't so hot in here. Birthing is going in.
This is serious stuff.
Totally legit, the only limiting factor being the size of the opponent's hand.
You basically have to be able to kill them the turn you drop it to be worthwhile IMO, and I would have to test the deck more to see how often that would be.
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Urza->As bendable as these decks are they are picky at the same time, it has to played..in my opinion, just right or you are screwed. These arn't really decks with much lee way on misplays
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Do any of these decks actually exist?
Why are we worrying about fringe decks anyway?
(P.S. Turbofog is dead)
What are you responding to? I'm really having trouble following your line of thought.
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Edit:I am simply anticipating what might show up at the local card shop in the next few weeks...it would be funny to see someone lose because of their stupidity against a spawn deck~<3
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