@ Urzas: I don't think you have enough token producers in your list. Neither hatchers nor predators? I like playing a lot of them as I play 3 Monument as well and I need lots of tokens to keep everybody alive.
Bramblesnap has been taken out for Brood Birthing.
I am trying to fit 1 or 2 Rapacious One in there as well.
I think there is enough.
Don't underestimate BBE, it helps dig to token production more than half of the time.
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BBE? As for Rapacious One, he helps a LOT especially against most vampires....ones here atleast tend to take that five to the dome
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Yes, Bloodbraid has been pretty nice for me so far. Rapacious One has really been underwhelming though... at 6 mana he usually just sits in my hand until i cast him, and when i do i usually already have a ton of spawn out. Also he just eats any targeted removal that my opponent was holding, since spawn are functionally immune to removal. I think im gonna replace him with another overrun and a 3rd monument.
I agree with this and this is the only reason why I play BBE.
However something that I find absolutely frustrating is cascading into growth spasm or brood birthing when I don't have spawns (yes, it IS possible). Cascading into those is really underwhelming...
If you have no spawns on t4, I don't think the game is going very well. There are 12 (16 counting birthing) cards you could have played before BBE that would let you drop dudes.
If they were killed, BBE is still completely fine.
Growth spasm underwhelming? Jund cascades into rampant growth and doesnt cry. We get rampant growth plus a dude.
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At FNM tonight i played a mon-green spawn deck with Eldrazi as alternate Wincons, and the spawn proved to be more of a threat then the Eldrazi did, other the Ulamog
At FNM tonight i played a mon-green spawn deck with Eldrazi as alternate Wincons, and the spawn proved to be more of a threat then the Eldrazi did, other the Ulamog
I have got to say that this is a fun deck. It's not great, but it's pretty good. One card I think you all must try is Ancient Stirrings. It's pretty boss with the build of Coats and Monuments. At worst, it draws you a land. At best, it wins the game with Coat. I haven't played much with it, but I've been solitaring the Stirrings and liking it.
I have got to say that this is a fun deck. It's not great, but it's pretty good. One card I think you all must try is Ancient Stirrings. It's pretty boss with the build of Coats and Monuments. At worst, it draws you a land. At best, it wins the game with Coat. I haven't played much with it, but I've been solitaring the Stirrings and liking it.
Don't be fooled. At worst Ancient stirrings draws nothing
I don't generally write on these forums, but this deck requires discussion, and work. So far, I feel the main problem with the deck is that its worst matchup is agro. Face it. We don't want to block until an Eldrazi Monument is up. Naya eats the deck for breakfast in my testing. What I love about this deck is its ability to come from 0 creatures to a full board again after a wrath. It really is relentless after turn 5. So far, I have been testing this decklist.
Goblin Assault is probably coming out for a 4 Raging Ravine and Garruk.
Notes:
Khalni Garden, why are the lists not running this? It is good, and it allows fourth turn kills with a surprise Beastmaster Ascension
Beastmaster Ascension is pretty brutal. I usually only play it the turn I have seven guys to attack. The opponent usually loses if they tap out that turn. Many don't see it coming. All around, I love this card.
Elvish Visionary is in the deck for filtering and acting as a two drop 1/1.
Hand of Emrakul is a great card to cast with a Goblin Bushwhacker open. It seems to be replaceable for other alternative though.
Goblin Bushwhacker made the cut over Violent Outburst (which I imagine is probably a house). Violent doesn't provide haste, which is a problem.
I miss Lightning Bolt, but I honestly do not think the deck could run with it.
Pros:
Jund. Critical mass happens with Jund at about the time we are getting ready to combo out. Usually by then, you have enough tokens to block or and just swing in for the kill.
Control of all kinds. The deck comes back from wrath affects unbelievably well compared to other agro decks. It feels like every spell I cast is a Ranger of Eos or Overrun. Odds increase when it is a control deck that has no outs to enchantments. The board should deal with BSA and white planeswalkers, which are usually more prevalent the second game.
Problems:
Agro. RDW, Mythic, and Naya eat this deck alive. Sideboard plans require life gain and sweepers to deal with this.
Dead topdecks: Eldrazi Monument, Ascension, Brood Birthing, Awakening Zone. All of these are lousy topdecks. Too bad there are no double upkeep cards in the format.
There was a forum that popped up before this that I feel was taking the better path: R/G BEASTMASTER RAID was the name of the forum.
Possible Sideboard material:
4 Hissing Iguanar - helps us race agro, also good against sweepers.
3-4 Chain Reaction Better then All is Dust for what we have to do, and that is destroy Nactls, Bloodbraids, and the like on the board, then hopefully recover before they reload.
3 Comet Storm For BSA and planeswalkers
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - Why lose to fog decks anymore? LOLCATS at them as you shuffle your graveyard back in, then steal the turn by eventually casting him.
Lifegain.... NO IDEA, I've been trying to figure this one out for Valakut for a long time, and have found nothing to compete against RDW. It really is one of those matches where you have to spray and pray with burn spells.
Enchantment/Artifact removal. Some white decks already have been boarding silly hurtful cards such as Lightmine Field. Laugh as you will, but this is a threat when your opponent has BSA, Wall of Omens, and wrath effects.
Last but not least, Master of the Wild Hunt. Although it pains for me to say it, as I own 0 of these, this card would be excellent when they board out their Lightning Bolts and Path to Exiles.
Pelakka Wurm? 7 mana is a lot but you definitely are running enough accel to get him out.
With Valakut, triple green was an impossibility, but this deck, not so much. Might be good, but then again, it might be too late by that time. I do want to run that card in some kind of deck, because I've never seen an uncommon with that many useful abilities.
I played an incomplete(I didn't have the alt win cons or the Kozi) version of my deck, it went horrible tonight, 1-3 I won by the bye so really 0-3
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I don't generally write on these forums, but this deck requires discussion, and work. So far, I feel the main problem with the deck is that its worst matchup is agro. Face it. We don't want to block until an Eldrazi Monument is up. Naya eats the deck for breakfast in my testing. What I love about this deck is its ability to come from 0 creatures to a full board again after a wrath. It really is relentless after turn 5. So far, I have been testing this decklist.
Your deck has some things going for it but some things not so much. Hand of Emrakul is absolute balls and the reason is removal exists. Not so much the it dies to removal arguement, but the t3 hand of emrakul dream of Nest invader to brood birthing into had dream is crushed by most decks in standard.
Maelstrom pulse. Terminate, Consuming Vapors (assuming they are on the play) doom blade
Path to exile, oblivion ring, oust, journey to nowhere
Into the Roil, Jace
Etc etc etc etc.
Also why is everyone turning to eldrazi monument? The things that will make the spawn matter are:
Beastmasters Ascension, Overrun, raid bombardment, and coat of arms.
Aside from flying which is cool and all, all it does is gives you an "overrun" of 1 damage per spawn which isn't so exciting.
How has Bushwacker performed for you?
I don't see really the point of attacking with a bunch of 1/2... except if you have just cast a Predator the same turn AND you have a beastmaster asc in play.
I would increase the Monument number to 3 as I found that it's THE card that make this deck even remotely playable.
The Hand could be removed for Pelakka wurm or emrakul's hatcher as 4 creatures in 1 are fine with the ascension.
The reason I run Bushwhacker is because it combos ridiculously well with Beastmaster Ascension and Hand of Emrakul. When I can make 3 tokens and drop Bushwhacker with Ascension in play, I win. The Monument has been less then stellar when I don't have a token producer out, so 2 is more then sufficient. Very few people see the Hand of Emrakul and a Bushwacker coming first game. I usually board it out second game depending on what they are running. If there was enchantment searches in the format, I would run that instead of Monument and Hand and act like a combo deck.
Your deck has some things going for it but some things not so much. Hand of Emrakul is absolute balls and the reason is removal exists. Not so much the it dies to removal arguement, but the t3 hand of emrakul dream of Nest invader to brood birthing into had dream is crushed by most decks in standard.
Maelstrom pulse. Terminate, Consuming Vapors (assuming they are on the play) doom blade
Path to exile, oblivion ring, oust, journey to nowhere
Into the Roil, Jace
Etc etc etc etc.
Also why is everyone turning to eldrazi monument? The things that will make the spawn matter are:
Beastmasters Ascension, Overrun, raid bombardment, and coat of arms.
Aside from flying which is cool and all, all it does is gives you an "overrun" of 1 damage per spawn which isn't so exciting.
Monument is good against Wraths and fliers in general (Baneslayer most importantly). It is also a form of inevitability as you can make more tokens than you will sacrifice. So laying it down and casting a bunch of tokens turn after turn while your opponents do nothing until you draw a Coat or you just kill them with all your tokens. Also, I'm running 4 Ancient Stirring so it's a better option than the colored overruns you named.
Just want to reiterate how important Ancient Stirrings is in this deck. If you haven't tried it, try it (with Coats and Monuments). It is a green super ponder in this deck and really lets you dig deep to find your bombs. Even if you miss, you can get a land and remove 5 turns that you wouldn't have drawn it anyway. Hell, it let me keep a one lander because I knew I could grab a land and play Nest Invader next turn.
The only questionable part of this deck is if Skittering Invasion should be something else. Everything else is solid. I think this version of the deck is probably more reliable thanks to the Stirrings than using Beastmaster or Raid Bombardment. So try out this decklist for yourself because I think it is probably the best list.
Has anyone tried Skullmulcher? It seems like a reasonable card draw/threat package. A decent two of?
Are people not liking Broodwarden? I am not really surprised there I guess.
As for ancient stirrings, ehhh, not impressed.
But if you aim to win through artifact pump, all is dust deserves serious consideration.
If I took out Brood Warden, here would be my list:
If you have no spawns on t4, I don't think the game is going very well. There are 12 (16 counting birthing) cards you could have played before BBE that would let you drop dudes.
If they were killed, BBE is still completely fine.
Growth spasm underwhelming? Jund cascades into rampant growth and doesnt cry. We get rampant growth plus a dude.
i dont know.... whenever jund cascades into a rampant growth i usually pump my fist
I added two Might of the Masses to give me a little bit of a tricksy side, it could let me slide around blockers, or turn a bad block into a profitable one, but like I said I havent tested it so Im not sure.
Added three bolts, I think thats a pretty solid change there.
Upped the ascensions to 4 and took Garruk down to two, Garruk is nice and I still want him in the deck, but the ascension is better. Maybe Ill have somethin in the side to replace the ascensions when I go up against vamps? I dunno.
Still not sure what to do with a sideboard. Ive got a few cards there that I think will help but who knows.
I added two Might of the Masses to give me a little bit of a tricksy side, it could let me slide around blockers, or turn a bad block into a profitable one, but like I said I havent tested it so Im not sure.
Added three bolts, I think thats a pretty solid change there.
Upped the ascensions to 4 and took Garruk down to two, Garruk is nice and I still want him in the deck, but the ascension is better. Maybe Ill have somethin in the side to replace the ascensions when I go up against vamps? I dunno.
Still not sure what to do with a sideboard. Ive got a few cards there that I think will help but who knows.
how satisfied have you been with ascensions? do you think they're gonna stay in the deck pretty much all through testing? im making a g/b variant and i was thinking of adding them but it just seems too scrubby (i havnt playtested with them though) but at the same time it looks like it COULD work. unfortunately i wont have the deck complete until next weekend and i cant test it on magic online yet.
Ascension is pretty much your best win con in this deck. Monument is cut for getting you blockers or something, but an army of 1/2 flying spawn isnt exactly what i'd call an alpha strike. I would take out the mights, there not needed. Also swap the birds for 3 BBE's they are great in this deck (surprise), usually digging out an awakening zone or ascension. Also -4 kozileks predator for +4 awakening zone, and -3 hatcher for +1 bolt and +2 rapacious one. Hatcher is too slow, as is predator.
(I'm going from memory here as I think I'm a few cards short, but I can't remember what else. Oh well.)
So testing has been great. I am usually getting turn 6ish kills, sometimes earlier, sometimes later, depending on my hand. I think this deck has a real shot as spawns are basically immune to removal (Comet Storm, Banefire) and you can quickly clog the board with chump blockers and wait till you draw an ascension. I have tested against W/G UmbraDancer, Mono-B Control, Dredgevine, and Bant Conscription Mythic. So far I easily win against these decks; I know they are rogue but dredgevine has scary amounts of potential and Bant will surely stay popular, as will B Control. I haven't gotten the test to test against the elephants in the room (U/W Control/Tapout and Jund for the newbies) and would welcome any tournie reports/testing insights.
You can't play BBE and any X spell.
I tried it, and the first two times I cast him while playing, cascaded into Comet Storm.
If you have no X spells, BBE is 110% solid, and a 4 of, as he will get you to a zone or ascension, or just dig through the deck that much closer to one.
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Bramblesnap has been taken out for Brood Birthing.
I am trying to fit 1 or 2 Rapacious One in there as well.
I think there is enough.
Don't underestimate BBE, it helps dig to token production more than half of the time.
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If you have no spawns on t4, I don't think the game is going very well. There are 12 (16 counting birthing) cards you could have played before BBE that would let you drop dudes.
If they were killed, BBE is still completely fine.
Growth spasm underwhelming? Jund cascades into rampant growth and doesnt cry. We get rampant growth plus a dude.
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What were your standings and Decklist+sideboard?
4 Raging Ravine
4 Rootbound Crag
10 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Brood Birthing
4 Growth Spasm
4 Awakening Zone
1 Skittering Invasion
4 Nest Invaders
4 Kozilek's Predator
4 Emrakul's Hatcher
Artifacts (7)
4 Coat of Arms
3 Eldrazi Monument
I have got to say that this is a fun deck. It's not great, but it's pretty good. One card I think you all must try is Ancient Stirrings. It's pretty boss with the build of Coats and Monuments. At worst, it draws you a land. At best, it wins the game with Coat. I haven't played much with it, but I've been solitaring the Stirrings and liking it.
Don't be fooled. At worst Ancient stirrings draws nothing
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Khalni Garden
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
5 Mountain
2 Forest
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Kozilek's Predator
4 Nest Invader
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Awakening Zone
3 Goblin Assault
4 Beastmaster Ascension
4 Brood Birthing
Goblin Assault is probably coming out for a 4 Raging Ravine and Garruk.
Notes:
Khalni Garden, why are the lists not running this? It is good, and it allows fourth turn kills with a surprise Beastmaster Ascension
Beastmaster Ascension is pretty brutal. I usually only play it the turn I have seven guys to attack. The opponent usually loses if they tap out that turn. Many don't see it coming. All around, I love this card.
Elvish Visionary is in the deck for filtering and acting as a two drop 1/1.
Hand of Emrakul is a great card to cast with a Goblin Bushwhacker open. It seems to be replaceable for other alternative though.
Goblin Bushwhacker made the cut over Violent Outburst (which I imagine is probably a house). Violent doesn't provide haste, which is a problem.
I miss Lightning Bolt, but I honestly do not think the deck could run with it.
Pros:
Jund. Critical mass happens with Jund at about the time we are getting ready to combo out. Usually by then, you have enough tokens to block or and just swing in for the kill.
Control of all kinds. The deck comes back from wrath affects unbelievably well compared to other agro decks. It feels like every spell I cast is a Ranger of Eos or Overrun. Odds increase when it is a control deck that has no outs to enchantments. The board should deal with BSA and white planeswalkers, which are usually more prevalent the second game.
Problems:
Agro. RDW, Mythic, and Naya eat this deck alive. Sideboard plans require life gain and sweepers to deal with this.
Dead topdecks: Eldrazi Monument, Ascension, Brood Birthing, Awakening Zone. All of these are lousy topdecks. Too bad there are no double upkeep cards in the format.
There was a forum that popped up before this that I feel was taking the better path: R/G BEASTMASTER RAID was the name of the forum.
Possible Sideboard material:
4 Hissing Iguanar - helps us race agro, also good against sweepers.
3-4 Chain Reaction Better then All is Dust for what we have to do, and that is destroy Nactls, Bloodbraids, and the like on the board, then hopefully recover before they reload.
3 Comet Storm For BSA and planeswalkers
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - Why lose to fog decks anymore? LOLCATS at them as you shuffle your graveyard back in, then steal the turn by eventually casting him.
Lifegain.... NO IDEA, I've been trying to figure this one out for Valakut for a long time, and have found nothing to compete against RDW. It really is one of those matches where you have to spray and pray with burn spells.
Enchantment/Artifact removal. Some white decks already have been boarding silly hurtful cards such as Lightmine Field. Laugh as you will, but this is a threat when your opponent has BSA, Wall of Omens, and wrath effects.
Last but not least, Master of the Wild Hunt. Although it pains for me to say it, as I own 0 of these, this card would be excellent when they board out their Lightning Bolts and Path to Exiles.
With Valakut, triple green was an impossibility, but this deck, not so much. Might be good, but then again, it might be too late by that time. I do want to run that card in some kind of deck, because I've never seen an uncommon with that many useful abilities.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier and Heros of the Planes for the sig.
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Your deck has some things going for it but some things not so much. Hand of Emrakul is absolute balls and the reason is removal exists. Not so much the it dies to removal arguement, but the t3 hand of emrakul dream of Nest invader to brood birthing into had dream is crushed by most decks in standard.
Maelstrom pulse. Terminate, Consuming Vapors (assuming they are on the play) doom blade
Path to exile, oblivion ring, oust, journey to nowhere
Into the Roil, Jace
Etc etc etc etc.
Also why is everyone turning to eldrazi monument? The things that will make the spawn matter are:
Beastmasters Ascension, Overrun, raid bombardment, and coat of arms.
Aside from flying which is cool and all, all it does is gives you an "overrun" of 1 damage per spawn which isn't so exciting.
Thanks spiderboy4 from High~Light Studios
Member of Team Revolution
The reason I run Bushwhacker is because it combos ridiculously well with Beastmaster Ascension and Hand of Emrakul. When I can make 3 tokens and drop Bushwhacker with Ascension in play, I win. The Monument has been less then stellar when I don't have a token producer out, so 2 is more then sufficient. Very few people see the Hand of Emrakul and a Bushwacker coming first game. I usually board it out second game depending on what they are running. If there was enchantment searches in the format, I would run that instead of Monument and Hand and act like a combo deck.
4 Raging Ravine
4 Rootbound Crag
10 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Brood Birthing
4 Growth Spasm
4 Awakening Zone
1 Skittering Invasion
4 Nest Invaders
4 Kozilek's Predator
4 Emrakul's Hatcher
Artifacts (7)
4 Coat of Arms
3 Eldrazi Monument
The only questionable part of this deck is if Skittering Invasion should be something else. Everything else is solid. I think this version of the deck is probably more reliable thanks to the Stirrings than using Beastmaster or Raid Bombardment. So try out this decklist for yourself because I think it is probably the best list.
Are people not liking Broodwarden? I am not really surprised there I guess.
As for ancient stirrings, ehhh, not impressed.
But if you aim to win through artifact pump, all is dust deserves serious consideration.
If I took out Brood Warden, here would be my list:
4 Raging Ravine
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Evolving Wilds
8 Forest
6 Mountain
Spells
4 Brood Birthing
4 Growth Spasm
4 Awakening Zone
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Beastmaster's Ascension
2 Coat of Arms
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 All is Dust
4 Nest Invader
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Skullmulcher
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i dont know.... whenever jund cascades into a rampant growth i usually pump my fist
im liking these new eldrazi token decks though
My point was that it isn't underwhelming enough to take the card out of the deck, even if it is kind of a drag.
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4 Brood Birthing
4 Beastmaster's Ascension
3 Eldrazi Monument
3 Growth Spasm
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Might of the Masses
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
Creatures 16
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Nest Invader
4 Kozilek's Predator
3 Emrakul's Hatcher
2 Siege-Gang Commander
10 Forest
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Raging Ravine
7 mountain
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Burst Lightning
3 Windstorm
3 Banefire
6 ????
I added two Might of the Masses to give me a little bit of a tricksy side, it could let me slide around blockers, or turn a bad block into a profitable one, but like I said I havent tested it so Im not sure.
Added three bolts, I think thats a pretty solid change there.
Upped the ascensions to 4 and took Garruk down to two, Garruk is nice and I still want him in the deck, but the ascension is better. Maybe Ill have somethin in the side to replace the ascensions when I go up against vamps? I dunno.
Still not sure what to do with a sideboard. Ive got a few cards there that I think will help but who knows.
how satisfied have you been with ascensions? do you think they're gonna stay in the deck pretty much all through testing? im making a g/b variant and i was thinking of adding them but it just seems too scrubby (i havnt playtested with them though) but at the same time it looks like it COULD work. unfortunately i wont have the deck complete until next weekend and i cant test it on magic online yet.
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Terramorphic Expanse
6 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Raging Ravine
4 Nest Invader
3 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Rapacious One
Other Spells
4 Brood Birthing
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Awakening Zone
4 Growth Spasm
4 Beastmaster Ascension
2 Eldrazi Monument
2 Skittering Invasion
2 Banefire (Comet Storm instead?)
(I'm going from memory here as I think I'm a few cards short, but I can't remember what else. Oh well.)
So testing has been great. I am usually getting turn 6ish kills, sometimes earlier, sometimes later, depending on my hand. I think this deck has a real shot as spawns are basically immune to removal (Comet Storm, Banefire) and you can quickly clog the board with chump blockers and wait till you draw an ascension. I have tested against W/G UmbraDancer, Mono-B Control, Dredgevine, and Bant Conscription Mythic. So far I easily win against these decks; I know they are rogue but dredgevine has scary amounts of potential and Bant will surely stay popular, as will B Control. I haven't gotten the test to test against the elephants in the room (U/W Control/Tapout and Jund for the newbies) and would welcome any tournie reports/testing insights.
I tried it, and the first two times I cast him while playing, cascaded into Comet Storm.
If you have no X spells, BBE is 110% solid, and a 4 of, as he will get you to a zone or ascension, or just dig through the deck that much closer to one.
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