Pretty much this. People are so focussed on the fact there's non-Jund decks winning tournaments (and instantly calling them the next deck to beat), that they don't realise Jund is still making Top 8 placements with an entire meta that has decks tuned to beat it. Jund isn't the top deck just because it's a good deck and wins games. It's the top deck because it wins games against decks that are specifically built to beat it. You can maindeck as much Jund hate as you want, they can still steal the game from you with a couple of lucky cascades.
That is why Jund will be the top deck until rotation.
THIS. Thread over. If there was going to be a new deck to beat, we'd have seen it already.
Personally I love the fact that people are underrating Naya right now. It makes it that much easier for me to steal wins. I can't tell you how many times I've sat across the table from someone claiming their win record against Naya is something like 70/30 and then just proceeded to steamroll them. You people need to think for a second. If Jund is great and Bant is great why wouldn't the shard that has two of the best cards from both decks(BBE and KotR) also be great. Plus we also have a 3/3 for G, we get Stoneforge Mystic and Cunning Sparkmage. We have what are without a doubt the best 3 creatures in standard with Knight of the Reliquary, Bloodbraid Elf, and Baneslayer Angel.
After every new set the deck has evolved to take on the competition and I'd bet a thousand dollars that a new Naya deck will start putting up results before M11.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Personally I love the fact that people are underrating Naya right now. It makes it that much easier for me to steal wins. I can't tell you how many times I've sat across the table from someone claiming their win record against Naya is something like 70/30 and then just proceeded to steamroll them. You people need to think for a second. If Jund is great and Bant is great why wouldn't the shard that has two of the best cards from both decks(BBE and KotR) also be great. Plus we also have a 3/3 for G, we get Stoneforge Mystic and Cunning Sparkmage. We have what are without a doubt the best 3 creatures in standard with Knight of the Reliquary, Bloodbraid Elf, and Baneslayer Angel.
After every new set the deck has evolved to take on the competition and I'd bet a thousand dollars that a new Naya deck will start putting up results before M11.
As Patrick Chapin said, the deck loses to both Jund and UW Control a good amount of the time and that isn't a good place to be in the Meta.
You people need to think for a second. If Jund is great and Bant is great why wouldn't the shard that has two of the best cards from both decks(BBE and KotR) also be great.
Uh, that's not how it works.
That's like saying "UW Control is great and Vampires is great, so why wouldn't a deck that uses the best cards from both decks (Jace and Vampire Nocturnus) also be great."
Actually, that wouldn't be half bad. But you get the idea.
Pretty much this. People are so focussed on the fact there's non-Jund decks winning tournaments (and instantly calling them the next deck to beat), that they don't realise Jund is still making Top 8 placements with an entire meta that has decks tuned to beat it. Jund isn't the top deck just because it's a good deck and wins games. It's the top deck because it wins games against decks that are specifically built to beat it.
Except, of course, for the fact that those other decks have good matchups against the field in general; if they didn't they'd never have a chance of making top 8 anywhere.
Do people take Jund into account when building decks and especially sideboards? Of course. They also make sure they have solutions for U/W control, for two varieties of mono-red, for two varieties of Mythic, for Polymorph...
Seriously, though, I think you kids need to stop snorting ground-up Thrinaxes off the bellies of underage Bloodbraid Elves. It's affecting your brains a bit too much.
That's like saying "UW Control is great and Vampires is great, so why wouldn't a deck that uses the best cards from both decks (Jace and Vampire Nocturnus) also be great."
Actually, that wouldn't be half bad. But you get the idea.
Except that Vampires is bad, and BBE and Knight are good together and work towards the same end. You can cascade into Knight, both are beaters, and both can generate card advantage. I will admit that this wasn't the best arguement ever, but those two cards are great, see my final point.
As Patrick Chapin said, the deck loses to both Jund and UW Control a good amount of the time and that isn't a good place to be in the Meta.
UW Control is a pretty tough matchup, but Manabarbs (I run 3 in my board for this matchup) and recently Vengevine really make up for this, it's still tough and you've gotta keep your wits about you though. In my experience this matchup has been 50/50, which while not ideal is far from unwinnable.
Jund however isn't usually a problem. You pretty much autowin game 1, but games 2/3 are much more difficult because they are siding better than you usually, of course this can be mitigated by freeing up more spots for Jund in your side. The list is already very tight as is, but if you're worried about Jund than you may as well cut something to make it a better matchup.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
vengevine and thornling help against the U/W and Jund matchups by a huge margin. though a lot of changes will have to be made, and like most people say, i'm betting that naya will be seeing some good results before m11.
Except that Vampires is bad, and BBE and Knight are good together and work towards the same end. You can cascade into Knight, both are beaters, and both can generate card advantage. I will admit that this wasn't the best arguement ever, but those two cards are great, see my final point.
BBE and Knight are completely different cards, and are used for completely different reasons. BBE is an aggressive 2+-for-one hasty beater. Knight of the Reliquary is used to toolbox your lands, and act as a beater in the late game when you can afford to attack with it. They suit completely different decks, you can't just go "These two cards are good, if they're both in a deck it must be awesome".
Dark Confidant and Tombstalker are the best mono-black creatures ever! (well, the shade can also compete but he doesn't make a point) they must synergize really well and be great in a deck together!
Dark Confidant and Tombstalker are the best mono-black creatures ever! (well, the shade can also compete but he doesn't make a point) they must synergize really well and be great in a deck together!
good point, but it's not in standard right now.
a better example would be eldrazi monument and awakening zone. the fact that not a ton of people run dedicated removal for artis and enchantments makes this much more potent than nissa or other engines imo.
BBE and Knight are completely different cards, and are used for completely different reasons. BBE is an aggressive 2+-for-one hasty beater. Knight of the Reliquary is used to toolbox your lands, and act as a beater in the late game when you can afford to attack with it. They suit completely different decks, you can't just go "These two cards are good, if they're both in a deck it must be awesome".
I always tell a friend something like that. Just because it's a good card doesn't mean it fits that style of deck.
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THIS. Thread over. If there was going to be a new deck to beat, we'd have seen it already.
After every new set the deck has evolved to take on the competition and I'd bet a thousand dollars that a new Naya deck will start putting up results before M11.
As Patrick Chapin said, the deck loses to both Jund and UW Control a good amount of the time and that isn't a good place to be in the Meta.
Uh, that's not how it works.
That's like saying "UW Control is great and Vampires is great, so why wouldn't a deck that uses the best cards from both decks (Jace and Vampire Nocturnus) also be great."
Actually, that wouldn't be half bad. But you get the idea.
Except, of course, for the fact that those other decks have good matchups against the field in general; if they didn't they'd never have a chance of making top 8 anywhere.
Do people take Jund into account when building decks and especially sideboards? Of course. They also make sure they have solutions for U/W control, for two varieties of mono-red, for two varieties of Mythic, for Polymorph...
Seriously, though, I think you kids need to stop snorting ground-up Thrinaxes off the bellies of underage Bloodbraid Elves. It's affecting your brains a bit too much.
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Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
Except that Vampires is bad, and BBE and Knight are good together and work towards the same end. You can cascade into Knight, both are beaters, and both can generate card advantage. I will admit that this wasn't the best arguement ever, but those two cards are great, see my final point.
UW Control is a pretty tough matchup, but Manabarbs (I run 3 in my board for this matchup) and recently Vengevine really make up for this, it's still tough and you've gotta keep your wits about you though. In my experience this matchup has been 50/50, which while not ideal is far from unwinnable.
Jund however isn't usually a problem. You pretty much autowin game 1, but games 2/3 are much more difficult because they are siding better than you usually, of course this can be mitigated by freeing up more spots for Jund in your side. The list is already very tight as is, but if you're worried about Jund than you may as well cut something to make it a better matchup.
RWG Boss Naya
BBE and Knight are completely different cards, and are used for completely different reasons. BBE is an aggressive 2+-for-one hasty beater. Knight of the Reliquary is used to toolbox your lands, and act as a beater in the late game when you can afford to attack with it. They suit completely different decks, you can't just go "These two cards are good, if they're both in a deck it must be awesome".
good point, but it's not in standard right now.
a better example would be eldrazi monument and awakening zone. the fact that not a ton of people run dedicated removal for artis and enchantments makes this much more potent than nissa or other engines imo.
RWG Boss Naya
I always tell a friend something like that. Just because it's a good card doesn't mean it fits that style of deck.
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