It doesn't single handedly stop mono-red like people claim it does. It doesn't do jack against Jund like people pretend it does. Every single top aggro deck in the format gets around Wall of Omens easily.
Yes Wall of Blossoms was amazing but that was in a healthy, non aggro based format not packed to the gills with efficient spot removal. Meddling Mage used to be incredible when it was first standard legal, and hasn't seen play. Tidehollow Sculler and Mycoid Shepherd would have been awesome in most previous metas. People need to stop comparing the two situations and look at reality.
Yep it draws you a card. In a format with BBelf and Ranger of Eos that doesn't put you ahead on CA vs most decks like people are claiming it does.
well it blocks everything in the mono red deck except hell's thunder, it blocks everything in the naya deck, a lot of stuff in jund, and cantrips. It seems like it will be a fairly solid card for decks like UW control and possibly a sideboard card for other decks. Overall I don't think it will stop people from playing aggro or anything like that, but it is certainly a very solid card
Wall of Omens is amazing, it's just getting tiresome arguing with people who don't understand UW Control, don't understand card advantage, and think "it'll die, who cares" makes the Wall irrelevant.
Wall of Omens is supposed to die, that is what it is there to do. Period. We know *exactly* why we're running the wall and why we're casting it. The correct number of copies is 4, if you don't grasp why, simply keep running Jund / Naya / Vamps / whatever.
If they use a Removal spell on a Wall of Omens you are still up ahead in card advantage. If they Bloodbraid Elf into a Maelstrom Pulse to kill the wall, then you break even.
Am I missing something? I know its not a format defining, but surely its not some mediocre card.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
I'm sorry, but it will definately change a few things. One of the best things about it is that it blocks Bloodbraid and Sprouting Thrinax. Now, they *could* remove it with Terminate or Maelstrom pulse, but that does *two* very important things. 1) It makes them use removal on a two-drop that is not a threat (instread of Knight of the Reliquary) and 2) it will be a tempo play. Time they use killing Wall of Omens is time they cannot use to cast some other threat. If that is "getting around Wall of Omens easily", I hope my opponents have an easy time!
Didn't we have this same discussion a few months ago re:Jace? And haven't we determined that Jace is just as crazy as we thought he would be? Jace is Legacy playable, an Extended powerhouse and very good in Standard.
You do know that when a creature cantrips it might as well be a 2 for 1. most creatures are 3 power, with a few going above 4 and a couple at 2. so if they kill it w/ a removal you are up 2 and you have probably stopped 1-3 attacks with it. think about it (the thing is good)
I don't think that it will be considered the best card in standard or anything, but I believe that it will see large amounts of play in a variety of decks. The ideal situation (which will probably happen fairly frequently) is when they have a 1,2, or 3 power creature and they can't get through the wall, you shut down a creature and draw a card, a 2 for 1.
However, it's not as though it is going to single-handedly hose the offense of an entire deck. Most Jund lists now run 4 copies of putrid leech run some number of terminate and maelstrom pulse, but it's still a two for one if they kill it with a removal spell, so that's not that big of an issue.
What makes it so good is not that it is going to dominate a game (perimeter captain and wall of denial are better at doing that), but a good 7 to 8 times that you play him, you'll get a 2 for 1, which is pretty good.
Wall of Omens is amazing, it's just getting tiresome arguing with people who don't understand UW Control, don't understand card advantage, and think "it'll die, who cares" makes the Wall irrelevant.
Wall of Omens is supposed to die, that is what it is there to do. Period. We know *exactly* why we're running the wall and why we're casting it. The correct number of copies is 4, if you don't grasp why, simply keep running Jund / Naya / Vamps / whatever.
You want to put it in UW control? Good job making all removal that would previously be irrelevant relevant.
I have read your maniacal tirades about Wall of Omens.
It is not very good CA at all compared to BBelf that lets you play a spell for free or Ranger of Eos that draws you 2 beatsticks. Wall draws one card which could very well be a land and takes away the Inherant CA UW would have vs most decks by running no active targets for the opponents removal.
people need to stop living in the past.
Wall of Omens is not so great in the current standard format.
Wall of Omens shuts down all of Alara Block. Seriously. What creature can punch through that wall that costs 2 or less? Oh wait, one, Putrid Leech. We all damn well know that's not happening turn 2 every game.
You want to put it in UW control? Good job making all removal that would previously be irrelevant relevant.
I have read your maniacal tirades about Wall of Omens.
It is not very good CA at all compared to BBelf that lets you play a spell for free or Ranger of Eos that draws you 2 beatsticks. Wall draws one card which could very well be a land and takes away the Inherant CA UW would have vs most decks by running no active targets for the opponents removal.
people need to stop living in the past.
Wall of Omens is not so great in the current standard format.
The powercreep is so much that amazing creatures like Lorescale Coatl don't even see any consideration.
Yes it is a 2 for 1, but a much weaker 2 for 1 than the ones the other top decks in standard can play.
You reckon? How many standard decks play 2-for-1s that only cost 2 mana?
And more to the point, how many of those decks are packed with as much card advantage throughout their curve as U/W (particularly tapout).
Noone is saying BBelf isn't a better card than this. But given that it costs twice as much (which really amounts to more than that in real game terms) it should be a better card. Same thing for Ranger of Eos.
Wall of Omens is going to see plenty of play. It is a good blocker in the current format and an early card advantage source.
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Decks I am Currently Running:
Standard: UB Tezzeret GW Township Tokens
Legacy: UMerfolk
EDH: WBROros, The Avenger RZirilan of the Claw BUGKarador, Ghost Chieftan BBaron Sengir (in progress)
You want to put it in UW control? Good job making all removal that would previously be irrelevant relevant.
You mean the removal that would otherwise be saved for Celestial Colonnade or Baneslayer Angel? Yeah, I would be really upset if they used their removal on my wall instead of my Baneslayer...
You want to put it in UW control? Good job making all removal that would previously be irrelevant relevant.
I have read your maniacal tirades about Wall of Omens.
It is not very good CA at all compared to BBelf that lets you play a spell for free or Ranger of Eos that draws you 2 beatsticks. Wall draws one card which could very well be a land and takes away the Inherant CA UW would have vs most decks by running no active targets for the opponents removal.
people need to stop living in the past.
Wall of Omens is not so great in the current standard format.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
BBelf not only gets you a free card, but that card is always a spell-nonland-and it lets you play that spell for free.
Ranger of course generally gets you two 3/3s.
Wall of Omens doesn't give UW the CA to compete with decks like Jund or Boss Naya.
BBE was a mistake, clearly being able to cast free spells on a good card makes for stupid things to happen.
Range is 4 mana, can be easily counter at that time, doesnt have enough damage to kill the wall, and doesnt threaten to kill you by it self. dont really fetch you anything to kill the wall with. That dont really compare either as they do different things.
You are discrediting this wall way to much and is really clear you never play tested with it or anything play experience with it for that matter the way you trash it.
PS: late game when the wall is useless it replaces itself for only two mana so its not a auto lose topdeck.
EDIT: forgot to add the wall gives tempo which is the main reason its so good.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
BBE was a mistake, clearly being able to cast free spells on a good card makes for stupid things to happen.
Range is 4 mana, can be easily counter at that time, doesnt have enough damage to kill the wall, and doesnt threaten to kill you by it self. dont really fetch you anything to kill the wall with. That dont really compare either as they do different things.
You are discrediting this wall way to much and is really clear you never play tested with it or anything play experience with it for that matter the way you trash it.
PS: late game when the wall is useless it replaces itself for only two mana so its not a auto lose topdeck.
EDIT: forgot to add the wall gives tempo which is the main reason its so good.
I have playtested vs it alot. Everyone is saying it singlehandedly kills red. Yet I have never lost to a white deck playing it.
Wow, this card is incredibly overhyped. In a format where the power creep is unreal, this card is good but definitely not GREAT. Carvan Caryatid totally defined a MUCH weaker format when it was legal like this card is going to am I right??
I have playtested vs it alot. Everyone is saying it singlehandedly kills red. Yet I have never lost to a white deck playing it.
this is how I know you're talking out of your butt. even the worst tier 5 deck beats the best deck every once in a while.
Current white decks already have a good game against RDW. Either you're making stuff up, or you only played one game and you're using that as an example
this is how I know you're talking out of your butt. even the worst tier 5 deck beats the best deck every once in a while.
Current white decks already have a good game against RDW. Either you're making stuff up, or you only played one game and you're using that as an example
Blue white control I played against. 5 games. If it was mono white things would have been more difficult it is likely
BBelf not only gets you a free card, but that card is always a spell-nonland-and it lets you play that spell for free.
Ranger of course generally gets you two 3/3s.
Wall of Omens doesn't give UW the CA to compete with decks like Jund or Boss Naya.
Uh UW does compete, quite effectively, with Jund, and certainly with Boss Naya. You keep comparing Wall of Omens to BBE, but the fact is, UW doesnt have the option of playing BBE, and its not a card that fits their strategy. Clearly cascade is very often stronger than a cantrip, but Wall of Omens is the option and clearly the UW people (by which I mean the people who play UW, not you...) think its good.
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T2: UWB Open the Vaults UWB UWG Milllies UWG RB Blightning Aggro RB
T1.5: RBU Underworld Dreams RBU
T1: U Mono-Blue Control U
Yes Wall of Blossoms was amazing but that was in a healthy, non aggro based format not packed to the gills with efficient spot removal. Meddling Mage used to be incredible when it was first standard legal, and hasn't seen play. Tidehollow Sculler and Mycoid Shepherd would have been awesome in most previous metas. People need to stop comparing the two situations and look at reality.
Yep it draws you a card. In a format with BBelf and Ranger of Eos that doesn't put you ahead on CA vs most decks like people are claiming it does.
Wall of Omens is supposed to die, that is what it is there to do. Period. We know *exactly* why we're running the wall and why we're casting it. The correct number of copies is 4, if you don't grasp why, simply keep running Jund / Naya / Vamps / whatever.
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Spike doesn't think. Spike doesn't feel. Spike doesn't laugh or cry. All Spike does from dusk till dawn is make the Johnnys die
Am I missing something? I know its not a format defining, but surely its not some mediocre card.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
However, it's not as though it is going to single-handedly hose the offense of an entire deck. Most Jund lists now run 4 copies of putrid leech run some number of terminate and maelstrom pulse, but it's still a two for one if they kill it with a removal spell, so that's not that big of an issue.
What makes it so good is not that it is going to dominate a game (perimeter captain and wall of denial are better at doing that), but a good 7 to 8 times that you play him, you'll get a 2 for 1, which is pretty good.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
You want to put it in UW control? Good job making all removal that would previously be irrelevant relevant.
I have read your maniacal tirades about Wall of Omens.
It is not very good CA at all compared to BBelf that lets you play a spell for free or Ranger of Eos that draws you 2 beatsticks. Wall draws one card which could very well be a land and takes away the Inherant CA UW would have vs most decks by running no active targets for the opponents removal.
people need to stop living in the past.
Wall of Omens is not so great in the current standard format.
This format has powercreep with stuff like Gatekeeper of Malakir, Wild Nacatl, Woolly Thoctar, Putrid Leech and Goblin Guide
The powercreep is so much that amazing creatures like Lorescale Coatl don't even see any consideration.
Yes it is a 2 for 1, but a much weaker 2 for 1 than the ones the other top decks in standard can play.
You reckon? How many standard decks play 2-for-1s that only cost 2 mana?
And more to the point, how many of those decks are packed with as much card advantage throughout their curve as U/W (particularly tapout).
Noone is saying BBelf isn't a better card than this. But given that it costs twice as much (which really amounts to more than that in real game terms) it should be a better card. Same thing for Ranger of Eos.
Wall of Omens is going to see plenty of play. It is a good blocker in the current format and an early card advantage source.
Standard:
UB Tezzeret
GW Township Tokens
Legacy:
UMerfolk
EDH:
WBROros, The Avenger
RZirilan of the Claw
BUGKarador, Ghost Chieftan
BBaron Sengir (in progress)
Shades of deja vu. And don't talk with your mouth full.
Exactly the same CA.
Because if there's one thing control decks don't want to draw, it's land.
Time will tell, but I'm inclined to disagree with you.
You mean the removal that would otherwise be saved for Celestial Colonnade or Baneslayer Angel? Yeah, I would be really upset if they used their removal on my wall instead of my Baneslayer...
You spend 2 cards to trade with one of theirs.
Unless Wall of Omens actually says, "When ~ comes into play you do not draw a card."
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
Not exactly the same CA as BBelf or Ranger.
BBelf not only gets you a free card, but that card is always a spell-nonland-and it lets you play that spell for free.
Ranger of course generally gets you two 3/3s.
Wall of Omens doesn't give UW the CA to compete with decks like Jund or Boss Naya.
BBE was a mistake, clearly being able to cast free spells on a good card makes for stupid things to happen.
Range is 4 mana, can be easily counter at that time, doesnt have enough damage to kill the wall, and doesnt threaten to kill you by it self. dont really fetch you anything to kill the wall with. That dont really compare either as they do different things.
You are discrediting this wall way to much and is really clear you never play tested with it or anything play experience with it for that matter the way you trash it.
PS: late game when the wall is useless it replaces itself for only two mana so its not a auto lose topdeck.
EDIT: forgot to add the wall gives tempo which is the main reason its so good.
Modern:
Something new every week
Legacy:
Something new everyweek
I have playtested vs it alot. Everyone is saying it singlehandedly kills red. Yet I have never lost to a white deck playing it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=218820
this is how I know you're talking out of your butt. even the worst tier 5 deck beats the best deck every once in a while.
Current white decks already have a good game against RDW. Either you're making stuff up, or you only played one game and you're using that as an example
Blue white control I played against. 5 games. If it was mono white things would have been more difficult it is likely
Uh UW does compete, quite effectively, with Jund, and certainly with Boss Naya. You keep comparing Wall of Omens to BBE, but the fact is, UW doesnt have the option of playing BBE, and its not a card that fits their strategy. Clearly cascade is very often stronger than a cantrip, but Wall of Omens is the option and clearly the UW people (by which I mean the people who play UW, not you...) think its good.
UWB Open the Vaults UWB
UWG Milllies UWG
RB Blightning Aggro RB
T1.5:
RBU Underworld Dreams RBU
T1:
U Mono-Blue Control U
This is an idiotic discussion.
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