i would rather run creeper, because with kathari you end up with 2 1/1 goblins (possibly 4), all they do are chump block or maybe not even that,(board sweeps etc.) with creeper you automatically kill of two of their creatures or the lose 2 life repeatedly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey, if anyone knows where to play mtg in singapore, PM me.
currently running:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symu:Turbo Esper Artifact:symu::symb::symw:
Standard:
(Developing)
:symw::symbu::symg:Dark Bant:symg::symub::symw: (a few zendikar block cards from completing )
And if you have multiple creepers out, thats just pretty game. I like when I do sb my Basilisk Collars in with my malakir's and then only get my creepers to put the collars on.
+2 life, 2 dmg, basically unblockable, and deathtoucher. Thats pretty amazing for a 2/3 that costs 3 in my oppinion.
Or, if you get both Malakir's out versus white decks. +4 life with collar, unblockable/untouchable. Baneslayers = skrewed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
I am not saying the deck is bad, but there is no way it runs like Jund without Cascade making an appearance in some fashion, that is the best advantage Jund has--two spells in one. Without it, Jund wouldn't be nearly as good as it is, which makes me question this deck wanting to run like it without it.
Cascade isn't all jund is. Swerve is just as good. Nonetheless, Grixis has always been > Jund. I win almost every matchup. Double Negative kills their cascades when it sbs in. Even then, you can swerve spells back at them. Just because they can aggro a little more, and cascade, does not mean we can't womp on them. No this deck is not bad, but it makes Jund a principal'd cascade/aggro deck. Thats all. People used to say it was an answer deck, but how can you answer to something thats unanswerable? Thats something you should think about when you decide to play Grixis mid-range. Now, I'm still figuring a lot out in this deck, it is nowhere near complete, although, it has come a long way from what it originated from. I will say though that cascade is pretty good in this deck, but you won't be able to run swerve/double negative. Which are both key cards in mb/sb.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
Exactly, there are multiple lists. My list ran cascade for a little while, but I gave up on it, and started running something a little bit more pressure'd.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
Cascade isn't all jund is. Swerve is just as good. Nonetheless, Grixis has always been > Jund. I win almost every matchup. Double Negative kills their cascades when it sbs in. Even then, you can swerve spells back at them. Just because they can aggro a little more, and cascade, does not mean we can't womp on them. No this deck is not bad, but it makes Jund a principal'd cascade/aggro deck. Thats all. People used to say it was an answer deck, but how can you answer to something thats unanswerable? Thats something you should think about when you decide to play Grixis mid-range. Now, I'm still figuring a lot out in this deck, it is nowhere near complete, although, it has come a long way from what it originated from. I will say though that cascade is pretty good in this deck, but you won't be able to run swerve/double negative. Which are both key cards in mb/sb.
Grixis has always been > Jund, really? This is why it makes up, what is it? 60% of pro meta? No, that statement alone is insanely ridiculous, if Jund had a perfect counter deck, it'd not only make up a nice segment of the meta, but it'd be in top 8s.
That aside, Jund is not ONLY cascade, but it is very dependent on the card/board advantage Bloodbraid Elf will give it. This is why it and Blightning are the two most important staples in the list, if not the only non-expendable cards in it period. Grixis fitting cascade cards are not good cards on their own right like the Elf is either (and if you don't think the elf is good on its own, at least it's 3/2 swinging immediately threatening which is better than Grixis cascade fitting cards) and it is always fitting to be played unlike Bituminous Blast and Deny Reality and is a half decent creature spot unlike Kathari Remnant which is absolutely AWFUL aside from being a cascade tool, but when the card you're playing isn't good, you're not really creating any type of advantage as much as you are really hoping you play something relevant out of cascade...and if you don't? It has failed completely.
With that in mind, I understand your lack of cascade, but then you have to understand this deck wants to play a lot less card advantage aggro than Jund does, which may be the primary function of the build.
Again I cannot comment on how well your deck runs, but you truly seem to not understand what you're comparing it to and how you cannot truly mimic/mirror it in a significant way with what you're attempting to do. Bad/good/great deck? No comment, I'd have to see it play out. Jund, but better? Absolutely not. Functionally different aside from Blightning, but if you're not possibly putting it AND a creature out...then no, not the same.
Jund is only 60% of the pro meta because thats one of the only decks people give attention to. Drop the netdecks, and start something from scratch, gurantee that the pro meta would be so much more varied. But heck thats not going to happen. Kathari Remenant, is absolutely amazing against various decks. INCLUDING jund. I do not run it anymore because I have swerve. Although, I do think about putting him back in because he is simply an amazing blocker. Deny Reality > Bitumonous Blast in my opinnion because you can bounce lands/planeswalkers/enchantments. Blightning is an easy swerve target. and a swerved blightning wins the game.
Btw, I do play jund at times myself. I know how it plays out, I know its not "perfect". Its only the best because it has a constant CARD advantage. Nothing more. You disrupt Jund's card advantage, good game. If you haven't payed attention to the Pro tour finals. The only way for Jund to beat Jund is to disrupt the others land first. How does this build do that? Simple, Grixis Charm, and Deny Reality. Now, there are plenty of other ways to beat jund. But generally deny jund land, they can't win, or counter all their stuff.
Btw, this isn't a thread on a deck thats ALL READY better then jund. It needs work, I'll admit that. But don't come into a developing deck thread just to start fights. I'd ask you stop trying to be all "Jund is best, stfu noob". Gtfo if you don't want to help. Thankz gg.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
I'm not in here attempting to pick a fight, I am not even saying Jund is better than the current build of this. I am saying what you're running isn't attempting to run like Jund (the "but better" bit isn't even necessary). Which is fine in my opinion. Do I think Jund is so heavily used because it's legitimately very good? Yes. Do I think Jund is the be all, end all of standard? Not at all. I don't even run Jund myself aside from the proxy builds of it I use (from diff. pro tour lists and stuff) to test out decks against.
I am merely looking to help put things in perspective to you, and the criticism is to only helpfully make the deck better. Aside from card advantage the reason Jund loves Bloodbraid so much is because it plays 80% of the deck when it hits with about 75%+ of that being viable to play AT ALL TIMES (Terminate and Maelstorm Pulse being the only situational cards it could play...wonder why they are sideboards and/or not 4 ofs?), that is ludicrous. Which is why playing like Jund is so incredibly hard.
However, Jund's biggest weakness IMHO is that it's so well known at this point. Which is why I am attempting to spell it out like this because it's important to think of multiple scenarios of playing Jund and what you can/can't accept it doing to you in a game.
I like the idea of a good Grixis deck, so I'll look into making a proxy model of this to see how it plays and what may need to be changed. Sorry if you caught offense from taking my replies the wrong way. Honestly, I am only looking to help in the form of saying, "No seriously, know your enemy."
Read title, Sir, i believe there is a question mark. I have things in my perspective. Really, I made the title ages ago. My matchup versus jund is amazing. I know multiple scenarios. The only thing that really gets to me is Sprouting Thranx.
Edit: Sorry if I'm hostile also, bad day...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
I think people keep spamming and/or getting on your case because you seem so cavalier about how good the deck is. Basically your first page and the title state "Here's something I threw together, it's better than Jund." Admitting to having cheated within the first few pages doesn't help your case either.
You can change the thread's title if you "made the title ages ago" and think it could use an update.
I totally disagree with what you've been saying about Jund - it thrives on card advantage, but doesn't need to hit Blightnings in order to win. Broodmate is a threat as well. So are Thrinax, Siege-gang, Bloodbraid, and pretty much every other card in the deck. It's the best topdecking deck in the format, hands down (and for good reason) - a Swerved Blightning will hurt it, but it's FAR from game over.
Sounds like to me we need to get back on the deck at hand: Turmoils of Grixis, not JUnd. Anyway, I can see that grixis has some interesting cards that could prove really strong:
def the spectar, none of the other cards are competetive, but cascading into the spectar is totally amazing, aswell as getting it blightning'd.
Also, I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I think you should change the postname. the ""(Is it a deck that runs like jund, but better?)"" is really misleading. Jund is the best deck in the format, with more people playing it than any other deck, this deck has not placed in any important events. Saying ""but better?"" making it seem like a question so people don't give you flak for pretty well saying that this deck is better than jund.
Please do correct me if I am wrong, for you may have a completely different state of mind than me.
my $0.02
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd
Im actually trying to let this thread die and be archived so I can revive it for a fresh start. I really think I have a good product atm, but I'm taking it to WNM to see how it'll fare (Yes Wednesday Night Magic :D!)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
Im actually trying to let this thread die and be archived so I can revive it for a fresh start. I really think I have a good product atm, but I'm taking it to WNM to see how it'll fare (Yes Wednesday Night Magic :D!)
it has been said time and time again that FNM level tournaments count for nothing (which is mostly true) unless you go to you super non-cas really dificult FNM with awesome prozes and $15 entry or something like that..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd
hi
I am new to this web and I am very appreciate to get many thoughts of grixis deck and Jund Analyse and I hate people who always rely on the best deck Jund, and so people who is creating their own deck is much more fun than copying even for the win. This is my deck grixis death and first strike combo deck, I know I can't beat the Jund so I want your ideas and thoughts, in this deck there is 55 cards because I want your ideas what to add and which to delete and I really want the Shambling Remains, Death Baron, Grixis Grimblade, Swerve to beat the Maelstrom Pulse, and mainly the Kathari Remnant and other cascade which could win the fast speed Jund deck, sedraxis specter or Calcite Snapper so that they can't use Maelstrom Pulse so give some thoughts pls
I wish you didn't dig this up -.-!
I personally don't think either list is good. But I can't say either is bad. Its a good start. Something I would have to say, is Vampire Nighthawk is an absolute must.
Personally, having 6 of the Legendary creatures is bad. Not only is it high mana-curve but they eat so much removal. I only run one Sedris, The Traitor King, and I'm very careful about how I play him. The only real reason I ever put Sedris into play is for Siege-Gang Commander for token production. (Its a very nice trick i found)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lathia: Spam again. I swear its contagious.
iRebel: The person who develops the SPAM vaccine will be a billionaire, I swear it..
Spammer: Deck = BAD
iRebel: SPAM = BAD
EDH UThada Adel AcquisitorU GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
currently running:
Legacy:
:symw::symb::symu:Turbo Esper Artifact:symu::symb::symw:
Standard:
(Developing)
:symw::symbu::symg:Dark Bant:symg::symub::symw: (a few zendikar block cards from completing )
Casual:
:symb::symw::symg:TOKENS!!!!:symg::symw::symb:
Banner by Kracked Graphics
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=198744
+2 life, 2 dmg, basically unblockable, and deathtoucher. Thats pretty amazing for a 2/3 that costs 3 in my oppinion.
Or, if you get both Malakir's out versus white decks. +4 life with collar, unblockable/untouchable. Baneslayers = skrewed.
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
3 Cunning Sparkmage
3 Fire-field Ogre
1 Thraximundar
2 Blood Cultist
3 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
1 Prince of Thralls
4 Hellspark Elemental
3 Grixis Charm
4 Essence Scatter
4 Terminate
4 Blightning
4 Basilisk Collar
1 Lilliana Vess
1 Chandra Naalar
4 Crumbling Necropolis
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Dragonskull Summit
5 Mountain
5 Swamp
4 Island
Currently Working on:
"All is fair in Love and Magic."
Personal Writings:
Scars Have Torn My Soul: A Tale of Mirrodin
Ch. 1 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=283875
Ch. 2 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=304673
Ch.3 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6409825#post6409825
Also, check out Deck Tricks in my blog!
Many thanks to FuxAlt for the awesome banner!
@ The Seeker either run Thraxi or Thralls, and you must have basilisk collars for the sparkmage.
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
but his list is more aggro
it's basically
Grixis w/ counters
or
Grixis w/ cascade
Currently Working on:
"All is fair in Love and Magic."
Personal Writings:
Scars Have Torn My Soul: A Tale of Mirrodin
Ch. 1 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=283875
Ch. 2 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=304673
Ch.3 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6409825#post6409825
Also, check out Deck Tricks in my blog!
Many thanks to FuxAlt for the awesome banner!
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
Currently Working on:
"All is fair in Love and Magic."
Personal Writings:
Scars Have Torn My Soul: A Tale of Mirrodin
Ch. 1 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=283875
Ch. 2 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=304673
Ch.3 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6409825#post6409825
Also, check out Deck Tricks in my blog!
Many thanks to FuxAlt for the awesome banner!
Grixis has always been > Jund, really? This is why it makes up, what is it? 60% of pro meta? No, that statement alone is insanely ridiculous, if Jund had a perfect counter deck, it'd not only make up a nice segment of the meta, but it'd be in top 8s.
That aside, Jund is not ONLY cascade, but it is very dependent on the card/board advantage Bloodbraid Elf will give it. This is why it and Blightning are the two most important staples in the list, if not the only non-expendable cards in it period. Grixis fitting cascade cards are not good cards on their own right like the Elf is either (and if you don't think the elf is good on its own, at least it's 3/2 swinging immediately threatening which is better than Grixis cascade fitting cards) and it is always fitting to be played unlike Bituminous Blast and Deny Reality and is a half decent creature spot unlike Kathari Remnant which is absolutely AWFUL aside from being a cascade tool, but when the card you're playing isn't good, you're not really creating any type of advantage as much as you are really hoping you play something relevant out of cascade...and if you don't? It has failed completely.
With that in mind, I understand your lack of cascade, but then you have to understand this deck wants to play a lot less card advantage aggro than Jund does, which may be the primary function of the build.
Again I cannot comment on how well your deck runs, but you truly seem to not understand what you're comparing it to and how you cannot truly mimic/mirror it in a significant way with what you're attempting to do. Bad/good/great deck? No comment, I'd have to see it play out. Jund, but better? Absolutely not. Functionally different aside from Blightning, but if you're not possibly putting it AND a creature out...then no, not the same.
Know your enemy.
Btw, I do play jund at times myself. I know how it plays out, I know its not "perfect". Its only the best because it has a constant CARD advantage. Nothing more. You disrupt Jund's card advantage, good game. If you haven't payed attention to the Pro tour finals. The only way for Jund to beat Jund is to disrupt the others land first. How does this build do that? Simple, Grixis Charm, and Deny Reality. Now, there are plenty of other ways to beat jund. But generally deny jund land, they can't win, or counter all their stuff.
Btw, this isn't a thread on a deck thats ALL READY better then jund. It needs work, I'll admit that. But don't come into a developing deck thread just to start fights. I'd ask you stop trying to be all "Jund is best, stfu noob". Gtfo if you don't want to help. Thankz gg.
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
I am merely looking to help put things in perspective to you, and the criticism is to only helpfully make the deck better. Aside from card advantage the reason Jund loves Bloodbraid so much is because it plays 80% of the deck when it hits with about 75%+ of that being viable to play AT ALL TIMES (Terminate and Maelstorm Pulse being the only situational cards it could play...wonder why they are sideboards and/or not 4 ofs?), that is ludicrous. Which is why playing like Jund is so incredibly hard.
However, Jund's biggest weakness IMHO is that it's so well known at this point. Which is why I am attempting to spell it out like this because it's important to think of multiple scenarios of playing Jund and what you can/can't accept it doing to you in a game.
I like the idea of a good Grixis deck, so I'll look into making a proxy model of this to see how it plays and what may need to be changed. Sorry if you caught offense from taking my replies the wrong way. Honestly, I am only looking to help in the form of saying, "No seriously, know your enemy."
Edit: Sorry if I'm hostile also, bad day...
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
You can change the thread's title if you "made the title ages ago" and think it could use an update.
I totally disagree with what you've been saying about Jund - it thrives on card advantage, but doesn't need to hit Blightnings in order to win. Broodmate is a threat as well. So are Thrinax, Siege-gang, Bloodbraid, and pretty much every other card in the deck. It's the best topdecking deck in the format, hands down (and for good reason) - a Swerved Blightning will hurt it, but it's FAR from game over.
Kederekt Creeper
Sedraxis Spectre
Fire-field Ogre
Thraximundar
Sedris, the Traitor King
Currently Working on:
"All is fair in Love and Magic."
Personal Writings:
Scars Have Torn My Soul: A Tale of Mirrodin
Ch. 1 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=283875
Ch. 2 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=304673
Ch.3 http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6409825#post6409825
Also, check out Deck Tricks in my blog!
Many thanks to FuxAlt for the awesome banner!
Also, I don't mean to sound like an ass, but I think you should change the postname. the ""(Is it a deck that runs like jund, but better?)"" is really misleading. Jund is the best deck in the format, with more people playing it than any other deck, this deck has not placed in any important events. Saying ""but better?"" making it seem like a question so people don't give you flak for pretty well saying that this deck is better than jund.
Please do correct me if I am wrong, for you may have a completely different state of mind than me.
my $0.02
RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
Shambling Remains and Spector are the two best creatures Grixis has to offer though.
This deck doesn't beat jund in testing and doesn't rrun like Jund at all-so why does it say it does in the title?
it has been said time and time again that FNM level tournaments count for nothing (which is mostly true) unless you go to you super non-cas really dificult FNM with awesome prozes and $15 entry or something like that..
RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd
I am new to this web and I am very appreciate to get many thoughts of grixis deck and Jund Analyse and I hate people who always rely on the best deck Jund, and so people who is creating their own deck is much more fun than copying even for the win. This is my deck grixis death and first strike combo deck, I know I can't beat the Jund so I want your ideas and thoughts, in this deck there is 55 cards because I want your ideas what to add and which to delete and I really want the Shambling Remains, Death Baron, Grixis Grimblade, Swerve to beat the Maelstrom Pulse, and mainly the Kathari Remnant and other cascade which could win the fast speed Jund deck, sedraxis specter or Calcite Snapper so that they can't use Maelstrom Pulse so give some thoughts pls
3 Drastic Revelation
3 Blightning
1 Bituminous Blast
2 Dead Reckoning
Non-basic Lands
3 Halimar Depths
4 Crumbling Necropolis
3 Akoum Refuge
3 Jwar Isle Refuge
5 Mountain
2 Island
4 Swamps
Drastic Revelation is for more cards in hand and choose what to discard for faster speed.
Impy Grixis MY OWN DECK DUDE
Impy Grixis MY OWN DECK DUDE THE BIG OPEN FORUM
2x Unscythe, Killer of Kings
Creatures
3x Kathari Remnant
2x Shambling Remains
3x Grixis Grimblade@
3x Lich Lord of Unx
2x Thraximundar
Land
2x Island
2x Mountain
5x Swamp
4x Crumbling Necropolis
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Bituminous Blast
3x Grixis Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Terminate
4x Blightning
2x Cruel Ultimatum
2x Deny Realityx
2x Unscythe, Killer of Kings
Creatures
2x Prince of Thralls
3x Nemesis of Reason
3x Dreadwing
3x Grixis Grimblade
4x Lich Lord of Unx
2x Thraximundar
2x Sedris, the Traitor King
Land
6x Island
4x Mountain
6x Swamp
4x Crumbling Necropolis
Spells
4x Cancel
3x Double Negative
4x Terminate
4x Mind Funeral
i hope you comment on which of my decks are best and what to change thanks.
Impy Grixis MY OWN DECK DUDE
Impy Grixis MY OWN DECK DUDE THE BIG OPEN FORUM
I personally don't think either list is good. But I can't say either is bad. Its a good start. Something I would have to say, is Vampire Nighthawk is an absolute must.
Personally, having 6 of the Legendary creatures is bad. Not only is it high mana-curve but they eat so much removal. I only run one Sedris, The Traitor King, and I'm very careful about how I play him. The only real reason I ever put Sedris into play is for Siege-Gang Commander for token production. (Its a very nice trick i found)
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
Impy Grixis MY OWN DECK DUDE
Impy Grixis MY OWN DECK DUDE THE BIG OPEN FORUM