Spread 'Em loses flat out against any mono-colored deck, especially Vampires. Any wins you may have heard of were due to awkward draws or not drawing land. The exception to this is, of course, RDW since the original sideboard was made to defeat red decks. In this case, every match against RDW went 2-1 in Spread 'Em's favor.
Of course, this is my experience playing the deck for a few months. New Jund beats Spread 'Em now because you can play around it with fetches and Rampant Growths, eventually Pulsing all the enchantments away.
And, as always in my experiences, RDW always seems to lose against experienced players. It really only serves to surprise unprepared and inexperienced FNM players.
Spread 'Em loses flat out against any mono-colored deck, especially Vampires. Any wins you may have heard of were due to awkward draws or not drawing land.
Vamps is actually a very mana-intensive deck. Kicked Gatekeeper and Nocturnus both cost BBB, and Mind Sludge and Tendrils both have effects based around your swamp count.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Vamps > RDW, due to not only tendrils, but Disfigure as well. Nighthawk helps here too.
not too sure about that. RDW can kill vamps way before vamps can cast tendrils. and very few decks run tendrils, urge to feed is the way to go. and nighthawk almost always meets a bolt when it drops. though, i'm not saying vamps always loses to RDW. based on my experience, RDW has a good matchup against vamps.
not too sure about that. RDW can kill vamps way before vamps can cast tendrils. and very few decks run tendrils, urge to feed is the way to go. and nighthawk almost always meets a bolt when it drops. though, i'm not saying vamps always loses to RDW. based on my experience, RDW has a good matchup against vamps.
uh no
srsly you are no vamps player
urge loooooolzzz
that card is easily outshined by disfigure
you do know that when nighthawk eats a bolt it buys time for the deck to cast tendrils lol
hexmage screws rdw btw. so does a simple bloodwitch.
and you mention experience.. srsly you dont have the right to say those statements. they are null and invalid.
you do know that when nighthawk eats a bolt it buys time for the deck to cast tendrils lol
hexmage screws rdw btw. so does a simple bloodwitch.
and you mention experience.. srsly you dont have the right to say those statements. they are null and invalid.
lol, you type like an 8 year old. -_-
you have in no way provided good arguments to prove your point, so think what you want to, you are the one whose points are null and invalid.
this is the question i ask of you, would RDW let the game last long enough for a bloodwitch to drop? i don't think so. and there's also hell's thunder, a 4/4 flyer that returns. RDW dropping it on turn 3 means that against vamps, he'll unearth it as soon as a threat like bloodwitch comes out. also, RDW dropping a bolt on a nighthawk doesn't mean the vamps can buy time, the curve makes it so that they can drop threat after threat consistently and effectively to deal the most damage. and if you really know what you're playing, urge to feed is strictly better than disfigure. want to know why? it gives -3/-3, enough to kill most stuff that's relevant. the only relevant things that disfigure could kill in the current meta are ranger of eos and bloodbraid elf. by the time you can cast disfigure, those cards would've already done their job. and seriously, hexmage? there's something i like to call earthquake for 1. and there's also plated geopede, even as a 1/1 it can kill a hexmage, more so if it gets to a 3/3 or a 5/5.
Or how about searing blaze?
it can take out a hexmage or nighthawk, and still hit their face for 3.
there are soo many ways for rdw to deal with a couple small creatures without losing much tempo.
Or how about searing blaze?
it can take out a hexmage or nighthawk, and still hit their face for 3.
there are soo many ways for rdw to deal with a couple small creatures without losing much tempo.
yeah, that too.
but i am in no way saying that vamps suck. my point was that RDW has the upper hand against vamps.
you have in no way provided good arguments to prove your point, so think what you want to, you are the one whose points are null and invalid.
this is the question i ask of you, would RDW let the game last long enough for a bloodwitch to drop? i don't think so. and there's also hell's thunder, a 4/4 flyer that returns. RDW dropping it on turn 3 means that against vamps, he'll unearth it as soon as a threat like bloodwitch comes out. also, RDW dropping a bolt on a nighthawk doesn't mean the vamps can buy time, the curve makes it so that they can drop threat after threat consistently and effectively to deal the most damage. and if you really know what you're playing, urge to feed is strictly better than disfigure. want to know why? it gives -3/-3, enough to kill most stuff that's relevant. the only relevant things that disfigure could kill in the current meta are ranger of eos and bloodbraid elf. by the time you can cast disfigure, those cards would've already done their job. and seriously, hexmage? there's something i like to call earthquake for 1. and there's also plated geopede, even as a 1/1 it can kill a hexmage, more so if it gets to a 3/3 or a 5/5.
he didnt provide a good arguement but you arnt even close to right.
you overated RDW and underate vamps quite a bit. if tendril was too slow against RDW, then RDW would be the jund of the format.. hell it would be dominating extended too.
if tendril was too slow against RDW, then RDW would be the jund of the format.. hell it would be dominating extended too.
huh? at the very best curve, tendrils would drop at turn 4, netting the vamp guy 4 life. by that time, RDW would've at least dealt 7-10 damage and hopefully killed at least 1-2 vamps. though i agree that vamps could perhaps turn the game around by that time, RDW would at least have a higher chance of winning since RDW has recurring threats (unearth guys) and the creatures it runs are supposed to end the game quick. though, if the vamp deck can stabilize or it draws another tendrils, the probability of vamps winning goes up a lot.
like i said, i'd pick RDW as having the better chance of winning over vamps. that's essentially the point i was trying to make. which i think most would agree is true. i'm not saying RDW is auto lose for vamps, just saying that the game favors RDW in that case.
huh? at the very best curve, tendrils would drop at turn 4, netting the vamp guy 4 life. by that time, RDW would've at least dealt 7-10 damage and hopefully killed at least 1-2 vamps. though i agree that vamps could perhaps turn the game around by that time, RDW would at least have a higher chance of winning since RDW has recurring threats (unearth guys) and the creatures it runs are supposed to end the game quick. though, if the vamp deck can stabilize or it draws another tendrils, the probability of vamps winning goes up a lot.
like i said, i'd pick RDW as having the better chance of winning over vamps. that's essentially the point i was trying to make. which i think most would agree is true. i'm not saying RDW is auto lose for vamps, just saying that the game favors RDW in that case.
im not saying vamps destroys it but the way you said it, vamps has no chance at all which is definitely not the case and tendrils IS a good card against RDW.
im not saying vamps destroys it but the way you said it, vamps has no chance at all which is definitely not the case and tendrils IS a good card against RDW.
well, i'm a bit of an RDW fan, and i never liked vamps. so there's a bias there. haha.
I'm quite positive that Vamps > RDW. It isn't auto-win, nothing in the format is, but vamps are favored by far. Don't let your bias choose a winner for you. Earthquake can't touch Hexmage if there's a Nocturnus on the field either, which also stops your Hell's Thunder.
There's no way you're beating vamps by turn 4 either, unless you're playing against a very badly built Vamps list. It's almost at the point where every card they play is a bane for you (first strike, lifelink, very cheap removal, flying to avoid earthquake, etc). Then you have to also deal with Highborn gaining life for each vamp that you burn away. Post board, vamp lists can bring in Black Knight as well (not all lists board this card though) to enlist a 2nd first striker to ruin your day. The matchup is just not good for RDW.
I can't believe Zvi's Mythic bant has been left off this list. I've recently been playing this at my local FNM's and have had enormous success with it. It has a good matchup vs everything on your original list. If you got the cards, or the money to buy the cards, I'd suggest Mythic.
I'm quite positive that Vamps > RDW. It isn't auto-win, nothing in the format is, but vamps are favored by far. Don't let your bias choose a winner for you. Earthquake can't touch Hexmage if there's a Nocturnus on the field either, which also stops your Hell's Thunder.
There's no way you're beating vamps by turn 4 either, unless you're playing against a very badly built Vamps list. It's almost at the point where every card they play is a bane for you (first strike, lifelink, very cheap removal, flying to avoid earthquake, etc). Then you have to also deal with Highborn gaining life for each vamp that you burn away. Post board, vamp lists can bring in Black Knight as well (not all lists board this card though) to enlist a 2nd first striker to ruin your day. The matchup is just not good for RDW.
How often have you played against RDW?
half the cards you mention can't even be played before RDW is in killing range.
they have several cards besides earthquake to get rid of hexmage. its not like their creatures have shroud. red is full of burn.
hexmage or black knight or knighthawk can easily be handled by a bolt, or searing blaze, or burst lightning(unkicked for the 1st two)
1st turn: Goblin guide+beat, vamps nothing.
2nd turn: hellspark+beat, vamps can drop hexmage.
3rd turn: searing blaze/bolt/burst the hexmage, and unearth the hellspark. or hellsthunder.
the only thing vamps does is delay a ball lightning an extra turn. or lets them play a hells thunder instead.
sure it can be a little annoying that they have to avoid or get rid of a hexmage for part of a turn, but its not enough to completely stall them out, barring an awful draw.
wow what a horrible matchup for RDW:rolleyes:
Im sure they are shaking in their boots about waiting around for a hexmage+nighthawk+nocturnus to resolve, and not having any answers for them
I think people mistake "not getting completely demolished" with "favorable matchup" with jund.
WW doesn't have a favorable jund matchup. Even with all of it's hate, it still only goes about 50/50.
RDW has a slightly favorable jund matchup, but it is AT BEST 60-40. More likely a 55-45 in RDW's favor. It loses to the same jund curves that every deck loses to.
Spread em is the one true jund hate deck, that loses to just about everything else so it's really not a contender.
Jund has at least a 60-40 match up against everything else except itself. It's top dog for a reason.
Vamps goes about 50/50 with RDW. It is not a blowout in either decks favor. RDW is MUCH faster than vamps, but vamps as a lot of built in lifegain, first strike, and instant removal. It mostly comes down to how many tendrils and nighthawks the vampire deck gets.
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Which of the following statements are true about certain matchups:
Jund:
Jund > UW Control (70-30)
Jund ~ Naya (?)
WW > Jund (55-45)
RDW > Jund (60-40)
"Spread 'Em" > Jund (70-30)
Jund > Vampires (70-30)
UW Control:
UW Control > WW (60-40)UW Control > Naya (60-40)
UW Control > Vampires (55-45)
UW Control > "Spread 'Em" (70-30)
RDW > UW Control (60-40)
RDW:
RDW > Naya (55-45)
RDW > Vampires (60-40)
RDW > "Spread 'Em" (70-30)
WW > RDW (60-40)
WW:
Naya > WW (60-40)
WW > "Spread 'Em" (70-30)
WW > Vampires (60-40)
Vampires:
Vampires > "Spread 'Em" (60-40)
Fill in or correct anything missing please
according to ur stats, RDW is best deck?
I hate when people change their avatar's. That's how I identify most people, not by names.
Of course, this is my experience playing the deck for a few months. New Jund beats Spread 'Em now because you can play around it with fetches and Rampant Growths, eventually Pulsing all the enchantments away.
And, as always in my experiences, RDW always seems to lose against experienced players. It really only serves to surprise unprepared and inexperienced FNM players.
Vamps is actually a very mana-intensive deck. Kicked Gatekeeper and Nocturnus both cost BBB, and Mind Sludge and Tendrils both have effects based around your swamp count.
I hate when people change their avatar's. That's how I identify most people, not by names.
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
UW Control (including Chapin and tap-out)
Allies (of various color combinations)
Jacerator (though it won't last much longer)
Eldrazi Green
and others of lesser importance/occurrence: Valakut, Open the Vaults, Ionamorph/trap...
not too sure about that. RDW can kill vamps way before vamps can cast tendrils. and very few decks run tendrils, urge to feed is the way to go. and nighthawk almost always meets a bolt when it drops. though, i'm not saying vamps always loses to RDW. based on my experience, RDW has a good matchup against vamps.
RWG Boss Naya
uh no
srsly you are no vamps player
urge loooooolzzz
that card is easily outshined by disfigure
you do know that when nighthawk eats a bolt it buys time for the deck to cast tendrils lol
hexmage screws rdw btw. so does a simple bloodwitch.
and you mention experience.. srsly you dont have the right to say those statements. they are null and invalid.
Infraction for spam / flaming
ChibiSwan! YOU ROCK!
...........Shin on the textless Cryptic Command
Jund > UW Control (70-30)
No need to consider UW Control. 50%+ VS JUND
Not really trading atm
BRVamps
lol, you type like an 8 year old. -_-
you have in no way provided good arguments to prove your point, so think what you want to, you are the one whose points are null and invalid.
this is the question i ask of you, would RDW let the game last long enough for a bloodwitch to drop? i don't think so. and there's also hell's thunder, a 4/4 flyer that returns. RDW dropping it on turn 3 means that against vamps, he'll unearth it as soon as a threat like bloodwitch comes out. also, RDW dropping a bolt on a nighthawk doesn't mean the vamps can buy time, the curve makes it so that they can drop threat after threat consistently and effectively to deal the most damage. and if you really know what you're playing, urge to feed is strictly better than disfigure. want to know why? it gives -3/-3, enough to kill most stuff that's relevant. the only relevant things that disfigure could kill in the current meta are ranger of eos and bloodbraid elf. by the time you can cast disfigure, those cards would've already done their job. and seriously, hexmage? there's something i like to call earthquake for 1. and there's also plated geopede, even as a 1/1 it can kill a hexmage, more so if it gets to a 3/3 or a 5/5.
RWG Boss Naya
it can take out a hexmage or nighthawk, and still hit their face for 3.
there are soo many ways for rdw to deal with a couple small creatures without losing much tempo.
Not really trading atm
BRVamps
yeah, that too.
but i am in no way saying that vamps suck. my point was that RDW has the upper hand against vamps.
RWG Boss Naya
he didnt provide a good arguement but you arnt even close to right.
you overated RDW and underate vamps quite a bit. if tendril was too slow against RDW, then RDW would be the jund of the format.. hell it would be dominating extended too.
huh? at the very best curve, tendrils would drop at turn 4, netting the vamp guy 4 life. by that time, RDW would've at least dealt 7-10 damage and hopefully killed at least 1-2 vamps. though i agree that vamps could perhaps turn the game around by that time, RDW would at least have a higher chance of winning since RDW has recurring threats (unearth guys) and the creatures it runs are supposed to end the game quick. though, if the vamp deck can stabilize or it draws another tendrils, the probability of vamps winning goes up a lot.
like i said, i'd pick RDW as having the better chance of winning over vamps. that's essentially the point i was trying to make. which i think most would agree is true. i'm not saying RDW is auto lose for vamps, just saying that the game favors RDW in that case.
RWG Boss Naya
im not saying vamps destroys it but the way you said it, vamps has no chance at all which is definitely not the case and tendrils IS a good card against RDW.
i'd also probably pick RDW over vamps.
well, i'm a bit of an RDW fan, and i never liked vamps. so there's a bias there. haha.
RWG Boss Naya
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
There's no way you're beating vamps by turn 4 either, unless you're playing against a very badly built Vamps list. It's almost at the point where every card they play is a bane for you (first strike, lifelink, very cheap removal, flying to avoid earthquake, etc). Then you have to also deal with Highborn gaining life for each vamp that you burn away. Post board, vamp lists can bring in Black Knight as well (not all lists board this card though) to enlist a 2nd first striker to ruin your day. The matchup is just not good for RDW.
How often have you played against RDW?
half the cards you mention can't even be played before RDW is in killing range.
they have several cards besides earthquake to get rid of hexmage. its not like their creatures have shroud. red is full of burn.
hexmage or black knight or knighthawk can easily be handled by a bolt, or searing blaze, or burst lightning(unkicked for the 1st two)
1st turn: Goblin guide+beat, vamps nothing.
2nd turn: hellspark+beat, vamps can drop hexmage.
3rd turn: searing blaze/bolt/burst the hexmage, and unearth the hellspark. or hellsthunder.
the only thing vamps does is delay a ball lightning an extra turn. or lets them play a hells thunder instead.
sure it can be a little annoying that they have to avoid or get rid of a hexmage for part of a turn, but its not enough to completely stall them out, barring an awful draw.
wow what a horrible matchup for RDW:rolleyes:
Im sure they are shaking in their boots about waiting around for a hexmage+nighthawk+nocturnus to resolve, and not having any answers for them
Not really trading atm
BRVamps
WW doesn't have a favorable jund matchup. Even with all of it's hate, it still only goes about 50/50.
RDW has a slightly favorable jund matchup, but it is AT BEST 60-40. More likely a 55-45 in RDW's favor. It loses to the same jund curves that every deck loses to.
Spread em is the one true jund hate deck, that loses to just about everything else so it's really not a contender.
Jund has at least a 60-40 match up against everything else except itself. It's top dog for a reason.
Vamps goes about 50/50 with RDW. It is not a blowout in either decks favor. RDW is MUCH faster than vamps, but vamps as a lot of built in lifegain, first strike, and instant removal. It mostly comes down to how many tendrils and nighthawks the vampire deck gets.