for those of us running stoneforge mystics mainboard, what is your opinion on behemoth sledge? In mono-white, the only way for it to hit the board is with the mystic, which is the only deterent really. once it is out, its near unstopable.
So what are your thoughts and reasons on running/not running this card?
I don't think that the only way too get it is with his ability....
Why not run 4 sunpetal grove and 3 stirring wildwood, all which produce white anyways.
Stirring Wildwood Pros
un-boltable
un-sweepable
lower cost for manlands
gets boost from honor of the pure
I see a miniscule splash in green as a good thing, even if just for sledge and manland
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[CENTER][/CENTER][CENTER]
EllE:
Because she's the hero standard deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll chase her... because she can take it... because she's not a hero... she's a silent guardian
Tried the green splash a bit, and although Im not decided on the value of it, I can tell you that you will need more than just 4 Sunpetal Grove and 3 Stirring Wildwood.
It might be enough to enable casting the sledge when your opponent removes your mystic before you can use it's ability, but with only 6 other green sources, your chances of being able to activate the manland seem ... low. If your going to splash green, Id suggest upping the green/white sources a bit more, for consistency. Having only 7 sources will mean that your manlands will often just be late game cards because you will often draw no green sources.
Now with maybe, I don't know, 4 more sources (ETBT probably), mana base would be good and you could include a few more very strong cards such as the one you named, Knight of the Reliquary.
I don't know how far a splash you need to no longer qualify as White Splash X but those are obviously powerfull cards.
My 2 cents.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The almighty tells me he can get me out of this mess ... but he's pretty sure, your f*****!"
I'm going to argue that behemoth sledge is worth a minor G splash but not too a point where you fill you list with too many citpt land or solo G producing lands.
I don't think Knight of the reliquary should be in a white weenie build either since going that path will might as well turn the deck into boss naya.
So far I've been testing Caith list which I posted earlier which used eight sources of green/white producing land, it works fine as a back-up source for casting behemoth sledge though I had trouble activating Stirring Wildwood, though it wasn't the prime concern just any other way to squeeze in damage post sweep which is at the end-game anyways.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
I've been running a single Behemoth Sledge and really enjoying it. I get it out more often than not and it can help bring something like a White Knight out of bolt range. Of course I also run a couple of Brave the Elements which certainly helps protect my Mystics early on.
I'm considering the 4x Sunpetal Grove and 4x Stirring Wildwood build as it could lead to some very solid sideboard choices such as Dauntless Escort and Qasali Pridemage. The only foreseeable problem is the possibility of not getting multiple sources of green out to be able to activate the man lands.
I've been running a single Behemoth Sledge and really enjoying it. I get it out more often than not and it can help bring something like a White Knight out of bolt range. Of course I also run a couple of Brave the Elements which certainly helps protect my Mystics early on.
I'm considering the 4x Sunpetal Grove and 4x Stirring Wildwood build as it could lead to some very solid sideboard choices such as Dauntless Escort and Qasali Pridemage. The only foreseeable problem is the possibility of not getting multiple sources of green out to be able to activate the man lands.
If you calculate the odds of drawing at least 1 of the green producing lands in your first 9 cards assuming that your run a play set of each (i.e., 8 cards) it turns out to be approximately 75%. This is much higher than the odds of actually drawing the sledge or the mystic (57%). However the odds of drawing more than 2 sources of green mana by turn 5 are only slightly better than 50%. That would say that we should plan to use the lands to cast spells with a single green mana symbol, but do not depend on actually being able to activate a man land. If you do get to activate it, it is a bonus.
Well another thing is that if we run the 8 green lands, it might seriously be worth thinking about Knight of the Reliquary as he can help get multiple green sources into play as well as pulling the protection land to nullify spot removal.
It's really just an idea, I'd like to test it a good bit more tonight and tomorrow afternoon before heading to FNM. All in all though I have had nothing but good results in a variety of matchups so far, including Vamps, Jund, and Grixis Control. The lifelink on Behemoth Sledge is incredibly relevant in a lot of matchups and like I said, the +2/+2 can help bring your White Knight's out of Lightning Bolt range.
I think if you think you'd have trouble putting into to play (specifically w/o splashing green) than Just don't reach for it unless you have another Mystic in hand or have some sort of protection spell for mystic like Brave the Elements or Harm's Way.
Kirby brought up exactly what I was thinking but forgot to post. If you just played a Mystic and you're tutoring and you're holding a Brave, go for the Sledge. If you don't think they have any removal, go for the sledge. If you think they do, grab something else. It's all about the OPTION though, to grab it if you know you can probably get it out.
depending on the build, you could also theoretically add Graypelt Refuge. granted, it does enter the battlefield tapped but unless you REALLY need the aggro, you could hold some removal in hand, especially if you have a freeblade/blademaster/KotWO/etc. on the field, and just wait out the turn. probably wouldn't want 4 refuges but 2-3 seems reasonable, thereby providing a possibly of 10-11 green sources, which seem pretty reasonable.
Well another thing is that if we run the 8 green lands, it might seriously be worth thinking about Knight of the Reliquary as he can help get multiple green sources into play as well as pulling the protection land to nullify spot removal.
It's really just an idea, I'd like to test it a good bit more tonight and tomorrow afternoon before heading to FNM. All in all though I have had nothing but good results in a variety of matchups so far, including Vamps, Jund, and Grixis Control. The lifelink on Behemoth Sledge is incredibly relevant in a lot of matchups and like I said, the +2/+2 can help bring your White Knight's out of Lightning Bolt range.
I was thinking the same thing. My proposed deck is here.
@ yanloup: why play a come into play tapped g/w dual that can be pulsed instead of something like stirring wildwood, which if you get lucky, turns into a 3/4 or 4/5 with HoTP out beater?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[CENTER][/CENTER][CENTER]
EllE:
Because she's the hero standard deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll chase her... because she can take it... because she's not a hero... she's a silent guardian
I splash for hammer and KotR in my WW deck. It's a sizeable improvement, in my opinion. The knight is just so powerful in today's standard. If you can protect it for long enough you can probably ride it to victory.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So what are your thoughts and reasons on running/not running this card?
Why not run 4 sunpetal grove and 3 stirring wildwood, all which produce white anyways.
Stirring Wildwood Pros
un-boltable
un-sweepable
lower cost for manlands
gets boost from honor of the pure
cons
comes into play tapped
Also, with the 6-8 fetchland run in the deck, why not 3 Knight of the reliquary
Pros:
Low cost high damage
works very,very well with emeria angel
some ramp aspects
honor of the pure affects it
Cons:
1 green mana
I see a miniscule splash in green as a good thing, even if just for sledge and manland
EllE:
It might be enough to enable casting the sledge when your opponent removes your mystic before you can use it's ability, but with only 6 other green sources, your chances of being able to activate the manland seem ... low. If your going to splash green, Id suggest upping the green/white sources a bit more, for consistency. Having only 7 sources will mean that your manlands will often just be late game cards because you will often draw no green sources.
Now with maybe, I don't know, 4 more sources (ETBT probably), mana base would be good and you could include a few more very strong cards such as the one you named, Knight of the Reliquary.
I don't know how far a splash you need to no longer qualify as White Splash X but those are obviously powerfull cards.
My 2 cents.
I don't think Knight of the reliquary should be in a white weenie build either since going that path will might as well turn the deck into boss naya.
So far I've been testing Caith list which I posted earlier which used eight sources of green/white producing land, it works fine as a back-up source for casting behemoth sledge though I had trouble activating Stirring Wildwood, though it wasn't the prime concern just any other way to squeeze in damage post sweep which is at the end-game anyways.
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
I'm considering the 4x Sunpetal Grove and 4x Stirring Wildwood build as it could lead to some very solid sideboard choices such as Dauntless Escort and Qasali Pridemage. The only foreseeable problem is the possibility of not getting multiple sources of green out to be able to activate the man lands.
If you calculate the odds of drawing at least 1 of the green producing lands in your first 9 cards assuming that your run a play set of each (i.e., 8 cards) it turns out to be approximately 75%. This is much higher than the odds of actually drawing the sledge or the mystic (57%). However the odds of drawing more than 2 sources of green mana by turn 5 are only slightly better than 50%. That would say that we should plan to use the lands to cast spells with a single green mana symbol, but do not depend on actually being able to activate a man land. If you do get to activate it, it is a bonus.
It's really just an idea, I'd like to test it a good bit more tonight and tomorrow afternoon before heading to FNM. All in all though I have had nothing but good results in a variety of matchups so far, including Vamps, Jund, and Grixis Control. The lifelink on Behemoth Sledge is incredibly relevant in a lot of matchups and like I said, the +2/+2 can help bring your White Knight's out of Lightning Bolt range.
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
I was thinking the same thing. My proposed deck is here.
It uses Stoneforge Mystic with Basilisk Collar and Behemoth Sledge in the tool box. It also uses Knight of the Reliquary to synergize with Steppe Lynx and Emeria Angel. I worry that the mana base will be too shaky, but I guess testing will prove that out. Thoughts?
2 Forest
3 Marsh Flats
5 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Stirring Wildwood
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Emeria Angel
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Steppe Lynx
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Martial Coup
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Path to Exile
1 Celestial Purge
2 Dauntless Escort
4 Devout Lightcaster
4 Luminarch Ascension
1 Martial Coup
3 Wall of Reverence
If I were to play WW, I would probably start with this list. It seems really good. No Sledge, but I think GW has a lot of merit.
EllE: